CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Junk]

I think I get why Junko is scumreading Shin based on Junko's previous posts, but @Junko: why is Shin suddenly worse than Mancer?

People usually vote for self meta because it generally tends to be used for WIFOM IMO. However in this context BBM had been talking about dormios meta so why couldn't dormio use meta? I don't get how dormio was trying to say nope i'm town?

Bluedooms reasons were that Shin was generally a hard player to read. Again I've only played with shin in one game so I can't really say whether or not he's a hard player to read generally.

SB:Scum shin being low key as scum meta yeah.

I'm confused by Mancer's SB vote. I don't get how disliking a persons interpretations of other peoples post makes them scummy and how SB was trying to make an excuse to bandwagon? I'll admit though his bluedoom case is better.

##Unvote:

##Vote shin

also you can't expect a response from me at 4:00 AM shin XD

[Junk]

People usually vote for self meta because it generally tends to be used for WIFOM IMO. However in this context BBM had been talking about dormios meta so why couldn't dormio use meta? I don't get how dormio was trying to say nope i'm town?

Bluedooms reasons were that Shin was generally a hard player to read. Again I've only played with shin in one game so I can't really say whether or not he's a hard player to read generally.

SB:Scum shin being low key as scum meta yeah.

I'm confused by Mancer's SB vote. I don't get how disliking a persons interpretations of other peoples post makes them scummy and how SB was trying to make an excuse to bandwagon? I'll admit though his bluedoom case is better.

##Unvote:

##Vote shin

also you can't expect a response from me at 4:00 AM shin XD

[Junk]

oh and what mitsuki said about me scumreading shin.

[Shin]

I'm still personally seeing how that justifies a vote on me. Truth be told, I'm still struggling to see where your case on me comes from other than "I agree with X".

[Paperblade]

@SB: I see Marth reading the thread so I'll wait for him to respond before I comment on that

[Junk]

That's because that's one of the reasons and I explained what I agree with?

[Sunwoo]

I've been out of the house for nearly six hours and I'm kind of in a bad mood, so I'll probably be scarce until I'm less irritated. Here are what thoughts I do have right now.

Randa: First, you really need to either quote only the relevant parts of people's quotes instead of the entire thing, or link to the post itself if you need to discuss the thing in its entirety. Second, your large wall post that was in a spoiler tag feels shallow. You don't seem to be actually analyzing the posts. Most of your responses seem to be "I agree with this", or "I think this is bad", or "I don't like this", sometimes without reasoning as to why or with very little reasoning that's not satisfactory. Also, I'm having a hard time following who you actually think is scum because you don't seem to have a committal thought on some people you commented on, such as myself.

eclipse:

Not scumreading Boron, but her responses have been. . .interesting (though can you please cut down on some of the more aggressive bits that have nothing to do with the game).

I'll try my best to tone down the aggressiveness, but no promises. The most I can do is force myself to stay away from the game if I'm getting snippy. Also, interesting is a very interesting description.

Junko's latest posts aren't cutting it for me either. Does your unvote mean that you no longer consider your previous vote target to be scummy, or is Shin scummier and a higher priority? What made you switch your vote to Shin now? What made him vote-worthy at this point? Also, rather than just quoting your previous post in its entirety as a response, can't you just tell us why, in new words, Shin is suddenly worse than Mancer? I saw no indication as to why you feel that way. Still feel that this is scum.

BBM's latest post felt a little better, although what do you actually think of Dormio now? Still not feeling better about Paper yet.

[MRDRHAWK]

okay holy shit I'm way behind

lemme try and catch up here

[Zkirsche]

@eclipse: Yes I know how tags work, I know that stuff is meant to be inside them, but the stuff gets moved outside them when I'm doing the same stuff that I used to do which worked fine. Ergo, new system bad, let's go back.

I don't think he'd [shin] try that here either.

I dunno where this reaction test idea came from, but I don't think Shin has ever claimed it was a reaction test.

so overall this post is actually pretty good, but it begs the question, was the only reason you were scumreading me was because i hadn't caught up yet.

Essentially yes, but I didn't know that you hadn't caught up and instead assumed you just had nothing to say. You're lucky this is your first post as I stopped reading this wall fast.

And yes I DO think there is/was scum on the dormio wagon because it was fast and based off of dumb reasoning where people like to instantly think of dumb play as scum play'. But he literally just said that dumb play isn't scummy play.

This feels kinda nitpicky to me and just turning someone's words against them. It doesn't help that Marth uses approximately 2 distinct adjectives though.

trying to paint someone as scummy for bad reasons isn't a scum move to you?

I think the point is that it's a bad move, not a scummy one. I'll let Marth do the rest. Most of this post is ok for the most part, I just disagree with the content.

If BBM was defending someone while not townreading them that should be setting off red flags

Not necessarily, I can attack someone's logic without townreading their target.

Interestingly, most of BBM's comments were directed at people's arguments made before he was even townreading you, so technically it's on stuff that he was nullreading. Do you have red flags set off?

In other words, I get the sense that you're not thinking through your responses, and are instead posting from the hip.

Fyi that is exactly Randa's meta as both alignments and it's probably not going to change even with your vote.

Wrt Randa/Junko alignments I dunno if being 'shallow' (so little justification or attention to detail) is really scummy, surely it's just not thinking things through properly and is thus just bad play. Like stone-age mafia play bad, but still just bad. It's a bad reason to vote for someone, as you're voting to get them to play well, not to help find scum.

Junko's recent post is so incomprehensible that I'm going to keep filing him as probably town. Shin still sees to be clinging desperately onto the "sheeping is scummy" junk I thought we ditched 6 months ago. Going "I agree with this" and "I disagree with this" isn't really bad, even if it's done in bulk, if the mindset of looking into scum is still there then it's perfectly acceptable to go full sheep mode.

Mitsuki's recent post is ok at a skim, as is Boron's, even though I don't fully agree with her. I'm too tired to really parse through any more though so I'm goign to bed, since it almost worked for Bizz I'm going to follow suit and expect you guys to have caught scum by the time I wake up and get on here. Don't disappoint.

[Zkirsche]

Fucking quote tags.

[Bluedoom]

Gonna respond to the cases on me first. Bar BBM's. I'll probs dedicate another post to that.

First off, Mancer and SB, you're both wrong about two things.

1. The only read I feel I even waffled on was the Refa read, and I've even stated WHY I feel so. When Boron questioned me on it I replied saying that I wasn't confident in it in the sense that all I had to go with was his empty posts from RVS and his Dormio vote so I couldn't fully commit to it until he posted more. Then when he did I was still uncertain about it yeah and gave reasons for that too. You could be like " But Marf why doesn't this apply to Paperblade" but I just feel p confident about the meta being right here and I feel like its out of char for him. Ofc, the last time I even played with Townblade was Touhou/CYOR1 mafia and he was like, non-existent during D1 in those games I think.

(You can disagree with my scumread on him if you want but I still don't get how he gets townread by BBM when he like, hasn't even made a good contribution to the game yet. If anything his actions are null at best.)

Second, I can see why my Randa read looks waffly, but to clarify this is strictly a null read. I see a case can be made for either alignment but I don't feel like his actions have scum intent atm. Not pro-town or anything but I just don't feel the case against him. And wrt Mancer, I wasn't as confident about it so that's why I asked him questions, and even his responses to those questions aren't satisfactory so in my reply to Boron I became more confident with the read.

2. I have actually looked into people on the Dormio wagon, I just didn't do under the basis of the Dormio wagon alone. I've had my say about Shin, Mancer, BBM and Refa, all of who were on the Dormio wagon. If you're expecting me to use that alone as ammunition for a case against any of these players then lol.

Oh and eclipse I can't respond to your anon vote on me(or at least this is what I understood from w/e you were directing at me) because frankly what do you want me to say to someone who says I'm not thinking before I act? Like I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.

[MancerNecro]

Randa, did you even read the other half of my posts? Like the post where I acknowledged that I misread Levity's post? You are quoting my posts selectively and that doesn't really show the full picture of my content.

[MancerNecro]

Woke up to too many posts urgh.....

[Refa]

I'm too out of it at the moment to provide actually detailed responses, but I figure it's better to just list where my thoughts currently are then wait forever (e.g. until I'm fully motivated to make a bunch of quotes) to get out another post.

Don't really have any issues with Boron's reply to me. Her Junk vote bothers me because while I get the reasoning behind it, I don't see why it's a stronger case than BBM/Paperblade FHPOV. Also earlier you asked Junko why he kept his vote on Mancer instead of switching it to Shin, but after he switched it to Shin, you still had a problem with his vote...why?

Don't agree with Mancer's scumread on Bluedoom (this doesn't just apply to Mancer, but everyone; I actually think Bluedoom is super townie at this point and don't get why people are casing him at all; his reply post to the reads on him is also legit), but at least I can get where he's coming from.

Considering all of the complaints of lack of content and fluff that have permeated this thread, I'm rather surprised that noone's actually taken a serious look at Dormio's wall post. None of his reads are very well detailed or elaborated on and it's a stark contrast to his super detailed RVS post. A lot of it is just "this dude isn't posting much, would lynch" which is really bad for Day 1 (and I'd assume that he'd know better). Would like more people to look into this because after RVS people have just been ignoring him FSR.

Kirsche, I don't see why it matters if Marth's initial vote was a filler vote. Fair enough on Dormio's Shin case. I'm not actually very confident in my Boron case anymore so RIP town read on me. Will read up on your (/Quote's/Marth's) ISO's after this post for BBM cases. Also sheeping your townread on Junk (get sheeped); in particular, I don't see him having the audacity to quote his post again after someone asked him to elaborate on it as scum.

Can't really get any reads off of Mitsuki's latest post. Reasoning is fine and I like how she's willing to reevaluate her reads but I really don't agree with her Randa read (again, these just seem like things that Randa does).

Meh, I know I'm dismissing a lot of my scumreads besides my one on Shin because pretty much noone else is making sense individually as scum to me and it's pretty frustrating. Least if Shin flips scum I can get some associative reads off of the slot which can help me out.

[Bluedoom]

Also I forgot this but @SB: There was totally fluff in his Tyne-Wear content though. There were one-line reads, waffling between reads with no deep insight as to why AND the whole reason he even avoided the Randa wagon (which was you know, at deadline and not RVS) was because it would be for sure that people would get on his case if he did that. Maybe you have a different take on this but it didn't look like ' good' content at all.

##Unvote ##Vote: Mancernecro

Well people aren't going to agree to my paper read so this is the next best thing!

But to reiterate past points and add some points to this case:

- Makes a case against Dormio(and I disagree with it) only to later waffle on it because of Randa's point of Dormio not doing it as scum which looks like making a hasty vote which can be said to be opportunistic. Admit this is my weakest point though.

- Proceeds to vote SB because ??? Assumes SB is scum coming up with an excuse to vote Mancer. Now this is cool before...

The post where he votes me. I'll dig up quotes to back this up in another post but he doesn't list SB on his scum list priority. Hell, he even avoids my question on why is SB scummier than Dormio. On his priority list Dormio is the last on the list followed Junko, Shin, Randa and Me, BUT, if his voting pattern suggests that he found SB scummy, why isn't he on the list? THis just feels like he picked up a scumread and dropped it, and also makes his SB vote look worse since it feels like a bad reaction to SB's vote on him.

- His Junko case is also a one-liner and this feels like a reaction to Junko voting him. There was no mention of him prior to his voteswitch to me so this feels like filler content again.

- Finally case against me is bad because it gets many facts wrong- for one I was looking into the Dormio wagon, two, just because I understand why some people case other players doesn't mean I need to agree with them and take their side. This is totally not waffling and twists my words to exaggerate the whole deal. Third, I wasn't even waffling on you, as Refa said, I was merely giving an explanation as for why I still felt it was better to vote Paper than you.

[Bluedoom]

I also forgot to mention that Mancer is the guy who's town meta is to have 101 scumreads and maybe tunnel on a few players who he'll have strong reads on. The fact that there was a period where all he had only town-null reads and struggled to get a case on someone irks me too btw.

[Bluedoom]

shit well I'll need time to update some of my other reads and BBM reply thing is probably happening like last because arguing semantics gives me a headache.

[Refa]

I wouldn't be opposed to consolidating on Mancer if I had too because fuck reading him + a lot of people I'm townreading are making decent enough cases on him, but I feel a lot more strongly about my case on Shin.

[Bluedoom]

I don't get the Paperblade case. Bluedoom, I actually think that given how much had happened by the time he had made his first case, I think that his first post is pretty justified. Given, I don't know Paperblade's meta so I can't really comment on that.

@SB: Making the first non-RVS vote doesn't mean that he's posted a lot of content. It just means he's the first person to have a serious vote. Furthermore, his posts right after that have either been a complete reiteration of his case on kirsche or prodding other players needlessly (mostly Boron but oh well). ##Vote: SB. right now because I don't really like his interpretation of Dormio's posts and I feel that he is scum trying to come up with an excuse to move onto one of the potential wagons (on me. Yeah, I admit, I get mislynched a lot, lol).

Mancer who do you think is actually scum and why?

What hapened to your Dormio read? What about your Randa read? Why is SB scummier than Dormio?

Right now I think Dormio could be scum but Randa brings up a good counterpoint about scum not drawing attention to themselves in RVS and that made me reconsider my read on Dormio. Also, I liked Dormio's later posts and switch over to Shin. His case feels less forced and more coherent there.

Regarding finding other players scum, that has to come after more rereads of the thread because on my initial reads, everyone's behavior seems null-town to me.

After ISOing the relevant players, my scum rewards are in this order: Bluedoom > Randa > Shin > Junk > Dormio from most scummy to least scummy.

I liked Dormio's later posts and his case on Shin so he's less scummy to me right now.

I don't like Shin's latest contradictions with his reads and vote and I can sort of see Dormio's case on him as well.

Bluedoom is my top scum read after ISOs. He placed a really early vote on Paperblade (and I don't think he has ever moved his vote at all). After that, he goes on to waffle so much on other players. He goes "I think he's scummy but eh he can do that as both alignments anyway" or "I can see the case on so and so but I'm not sure" (not exactly quoted word for word but that's the gist of Mose of Bluedoom's posts). He attacks several other players as well but doesn't change his vote from Paperblade and doesn't commit to any of them? Don't really like this at all.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Bluedoom

Randa is next because Randa has way so many posts but like so little of them has content. He fluffs so much and I don't really get his Paperblade vote as well? I don't see Randa scum hunting anyone at this point in time and he seems to be quite active and reading the thread? This reminds me of his Guitar Mafia playstyle although he was more sarcastic and unhelpful in that game.

Junk seems to waltz in right in the middle of the day and place a random vote on me what? That and he cases Shin but then goes "I don't think I've voted" and voted for me? Seems contradictory and random.....

Quoteblock alert.

So what happened to dat SB read?

[MancerNecro]

I found SB scummy for his case and poked him with my vote. His responses to that and his recent content makes him appear town to me so he's not on that list.

I've been using my vote much better than you, Bluedoom who kept your vote parked on Paperblade for most of the phase and only moved it when people prodded you about it.

Also, just because I normally have a ton of reads doesn't mean I can't struggle with reads once in a while. What type of logic is that, really?

You're not lynching me right after I actually have a role that I would really like to use.

[MancerNecro]

Also Bluedoom, what happened to your BBM read? From what I see, you really should be voting BBM since your case on him seems stronger.

[MancerNecro]

Also, I don't really like Shin either and I wouldn't be opposed to consolidating on Shin. He's pretty contradictory and I don't agree with the way he uses his vote. It feels scummy and kind of pointless. What is the point of keeping your vote on someone who isn't around and who likely isn't going to be around (Junk)? Especially if you were the only one voting him. Can't recall if Shin had ever moved his vote after that but I don't like how he has to be prodded to use his vote in a more useful way (if he did move his vote).

Junk is just being really contradicting right now. His votes and his reads don't seem to match up at all and I really wouldn't be opposed to lynching him either.

[Bluedoom]

Ok so I'm gonna drop my BBM scumread because I don't think scum!BBM would still push a case on me plus I think the hypocrisy point that I raised earlier is more likely to come from town!BBM who doesn't care stuff like that. As far as the Dormio vote is concerned, yeah I disagree with it but I can totally see BBM justify that with WIFOM reasoning as town.

I thought Junko's initial actions were harmless and paid no heed to it but now that I've read his ISO, I think his actions are scummy. The vote shift from Mancer to Shin makes no sense IMO since it looked like he had been scumreading them equally from the start. His justification is that Mancer's case on me is good therefore he is less scummy but he never explains why he feels its good. Plus scum can make good cases too so why does Mancer's 'good case' on me make up for the scummy actions that he did earlier?

Randa and Shin are being used as scapegoats IMO because nothing suggests that their actions have scum intent and its mostly people just using textbook scumtells as objective data when all of this is just failed deductive reasoning. Randa having an erratic playstyle is lit just the way he plays as any alignment and this is the same with Shin making votes which give me headaches. Yeah people say the same thing about my Paper read but the thing is its also heavily based on meta and I feel strong about it because I feel like he's being verbose where its not necessary whenever he posts but I'm p sure at this point people scumread me for this case and disagree with it ;-;. The exception is Refa using meta on Shin and voting him anyway.

MotK peeps should tell me if Dormio making list posts is part of his town meta or something because I read his posts from yesterday and I'm like " Wtf? A lot of these are one-liners." I would say this is bad play as town but I can't say this is scummy.

I'll need to read Mitsuki but at first glance I didn't get any scumvibes from any of her cases or scumreads, even if her vote is on the people who I consider to be the scapegoats.

I don't agree with some of the, if not all of the, Boron cases. I'm assuming most of it is her being ' passive' and voting Junko/ defending Shin? Someone says she's defending Shin indirectly but I don't think so because she's p much using meta to classify him as null. Also while ED1 she seemed 'passive' I wouldn't say its scum!passive. Scum!Boron would probably find excuses to not post a lot of content but she's doing the reverse here. Junko case is also legit because he really wasn't doing a whole lot in the beginning(not like he's doing a whole lot now) and it was either vote a guy who's active lurking or vote the guy who had empty content/objectionable content ED1 but had not posted since. There was Refa but she said she was feeling better about him after his response, so the only other scumread she had was Randa and he/Junko are interchangeable as far as the content:post ratio is concerned.(or even activity for that matter I mean who cares about spam!randa anyway?)

[MancerNecro]

Also, what about my indecisiveness with my reads is more scummy than several other players? Even Refa has agreed to dismissing his scum reads.

I'm going to go around and reread and ISO the thread again for reads. Might take some time cause I actually have a life now and all.

[Paperblade]

@SB: I am inclined to think Marth's actions aren't scummy because he was being so stubborn about them, I feel like as scum he would back down or have even not gone for it in the first place