First time, recommendations on team

[dondon151]

the hilarious thing is that snowy's representation of raven's arguments is a strawman whereas raven's representation of snowy's arguments is actually accurate.

snowy, if you wondered why you were toxic to arguments, take notes. this thread is exhibit Z, approximately.

Edited November 27, 2014 by dondon151

[Chiki]

Are you seriously telling someone to use Sonic Sword Mia??

[momogeek2141]

No. It's because one idiot won't accept anything that isn't

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Worship Stefan and his starting level!

Or...

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

Worship Zihark and his avoid!

It's not me who simply doesn't want people going around treating a perfectly good and usable unit like trash just because the only thing they can look at is raw stats and not apply them to reality or grasp how skills work in tandium. Stefan has a horrible skill, poor luck, and only an inflated level. Zihark requires a support with Muarim who can't even fill the 'healer' notch once his weapons get outdated. Mia has great skill syngery and a great support with Rhys. SS Mia is just a bit of icing that only came about because some stupid idiots kept whining about how she couldn't counter at 1-2 range and I FOUND a way that she can do so that they can't! Now you're whining because that way exists and Stefan can't pull it off.

Edit: But you know what? Fine. This argument shouldn't have happened in the first place and I'm going to do what both of us should have done in the first place. Welcome to the ignore list.

Couple things. First, the copy of Raven's post near the beginning doesn't have the same ring to it as "Sonic sword Mia, sonic sword mia." Second, I may be wrong but I don't believe Muarim is a healer. As for the stupid idiots, let them be stupid idiots. I would make one unit (IE Mist) combat-viable rather than give a sword user with bad MAG 1-2 range. I'm not saying Mia is bad, she's a good unit. I'm saying she isn't the best option for the Sonic Sword.

EDIT: Actually wait, now that I reread that Zihark sentence I understand what you are trying to say. But there is no base armory to restock Zihark's killing edges? Or are you saying that Muarim sucks once he caps his level? And no one said Zihark HAS to support Muarim. There's Ilyana. And Brom if you want.

Edited November 27, 2014 by momogeek2141

[Lord Raven]

Yeah I mean I definitely didn't worship anything considering I definitely didn't say zihark has a clear advantage or something. Also never said Stefan was amazing, just a lot more useful.

Hence, there is toxicity in our city.

[Snowy_One]

Couple things. First, the copy of Raven's post near the beginning doesn't have the same ring to it as "Sonic sword Mia, sonic sword mia." Second, I may be wrong but I don't believe Muarim is a healer. As for the stupid idiots, let them be stupid idiots. I would make one unit (IE Mist) combat-viable rather than give a sword user with bad MAG 1-2 range. I'm not saying Mia is bad, she's a good unit. I'm saying she isn't the best option for the Sonic Sword.

EDIT: Actually wait, now that I reread that Zihark sentence I understand what you are trying to say. But there is no base armory to restock Zihark's killing edges? Or are you saying that Muarim sucks once he caps his level? And no one said Zihark HAS to support Muarim. There's Ilyana. And Brom if you want.

There is no way to restock Killing Edges. The only way to get them is off of dead enemies. You can forge a slim-sword to make a cruddier version (1 less MT and 7 less crit) but that's as close as you'll get to 'forging' a killing edge.

The problem is that Muarim's weapon is basically a steel sword. A steel sword that can't be forged and requires Muarim to be transformed to use. Muarim starts off with only 5 in his gauge meaning you'll need to wait 4 turns (normally) for him to even start fighting. His only solutions to this problem are Laguz Gems (in limited supply, so even if he uses them and not Reyson or another Laguz, he only gets a few chapters with them) or the Demi-band. The demiband cuts his transform bonuses in half. A demibanded Muarim only comes in at 37 MT at maximum level. Just by wielding a forged silver Mia makes up almost half that before she factors in things like supports and her strength alongside the fact that she doesn't need a band and has an innate critical chance... and people still often complain about how Mia is weak. If Mia is weak, and if Muarim is weaker than Mia, than Muarim is weak as well. Rhys (Mia's main support) has problems as well, but he has ranged magic and a siege tome that he can fall back on in addition to his healing.

And Mia isn't the best option for the SS. I know that full-well. But there are only three units who really CAN use it in the first place. One is Mist, one is Tanith, and Mia is the third. Even if that puts Mia at the bottom of the dogpile it's far from unreasonable to assume a non-LTC player is using Rhys over Mist and Tanith is using the Flame Lance, so it's not like Mia's completely out of the running.

It is true that Zihark can support Ilyana and Brom as well, and it would be hypocritical of me to talk about Mia supporting Ilyana then deny Zihark an Ilyana support, but Zihark only gets 10/15 support from them which totals out to 20/25 (Brom would rather go for Boyd and Nephenee would also like his support and Ilyana just has good support choices all-around, so it's not 'guarenteed' in any way, especially since it's not unreasonable to not deploy Brom at all), much less than the 32 he'd get from A-supporting Muarim and B-supporting someone else.

It's why this debate exists in the first place. Zihark has high avoid and high base-MT, but isn't really special and requires you to deploy a unit who becomes sub-par later-on in the game to be really 'outstanding'. Mia starts off the 'weakest' but also has the most potential due to her supports and Vantage. Stefan starts off the strongest and over-leveled, but ends up being the worst of the three by a long-shot since Zihark has avoid and Mia has her skills.

[Shadow Mir]

There is no way to restock Killing Edges. The only way to get them is off of dead enemies. You can forge a slim-sword to make a cruddier version (1 less MT and 7 less crit) but that's as close as you'll get to 'forging' a killing edge.

The problem is that Muarim's weapon is basically a steel sword. A steel sword that can't be forged and requires Muarim to be transformed to use. Muarim starts off with only 5 in his gauge meaning you'll need to wait 4 turns (normally) for him to even start fighting. His only solutions to this problem are Laguz Gems (in limited supply, so even if he uses them and not Reyson or another Laguz, he only gets a few chapters with them) or the Demi-band. The demiband cuts his transform bonuses in half. A demibanded Muarim only comes in at 37 MT at maximum level. Just by wielding a forged silver Mia makes up almost half that before she factors in things like supports and her strength alongside the fact that she doesn't need a band and has an innate critical chance... and people still often complain about how Mia is weak. If Mia is weak, and if Muarim is weaker than Mia, than Muarim is weak as well. Rhys (Mia's main support) has problems as well, but he has ranged magic and a siege tome that he can fall back on in addition to his healing.

And Mia isn't the best option for the SS. I know that full-well. But there are only three units who really CAN use it in the first place. One is Mist, one is Tanith, and Mia is the third. Even if that puts Mia at the bottom of the dogpile it's far from unreasonable to assume a non-LTC player is using Rhys over Mist and Tanith is using the Flame Lance, so it's not like Mia's completely out of the running.

It is true that Zihark can support Ilyana and Brom as well, and it would be hypocritical of me to talk about Mia supporting Ilyana then deny Zihark an Ilyana support, but Zihark only gets 10/15 support from them which totals out to 20/25 (Brom would rather go for Boyd and Nephenee would also like his support and Ilyana just has good support choices all-around, so it's not 'guarenteed' in any way, especially since it's not unreasonable to not deploy Brom at all), much less than the 32 he'd get from A-supporting Muarim and B-supporting someone else.

It's why this debate exists in the first place. Zihark has high avoid and high base-MT, but isn't really special and requires you to deploy a unit who becomes sub-par later-on in the game to be really 'outstanding'. Mia starts off the 'weakest' but also has the most potential due to her supports and Vantage. Stefan starts off the strongest and over-leveled, but ends up being the worst of the three by a long-shot since Zihark has avoid and Mia has her skills.

Just a few points:

1.You can only add 9 crit at most, so a forged Slim Sword only winds up with 14 crit, which is well short of a killing edge's 30, to say nothing of how expensive forging a slim sword is.

2..There's only one Purge in the game, and it comes rather late.

3. Neph/Brom is not exactly what I'd call a great support - the bonuses are pretty bleh, tbh. I'd argue that Zihark's better for Brom than Nephenee is, support wise.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Snowy_One]

You're right. For some reason i forgot that they give 30 crit instead of 20, but the point still stands and doesn't really matter anyways. While a slim-weapon can be fashioned into a cruddy version of a killer, it's simply inferior to any other forge out there.

While the purge comes late, it is still an additional facet to Rhys that Muarim cannon preform. The point here is that, while Rhys will have uses, even if niche, later into the game, Muarim becomes entirely overshadowed in pretty much everything.

Lastly, it doesn't matter for Brom as he's too slow to take advantage of the extra avoid. His endgame AVO is 44. For comparison Sothe has 57 and he doesn't even promote. That's not to mention that he has a LOT of HP and DEF, so even when he gets hit, he's not taking a lot of damage.

[ClLoulD]

Wow this has gotten really out of hand but I am going to weigh in here...

Swordmasters in my style of play act as more of a support unit and I use them with that in mind. The problem I have with swordsmasters is that they have very limited strength and the worst of the weapon triangle (swords) but they are by far one of the coolest looking units and have fantastic speed values which makes them useful for killing low armoured enemies. Another issue I have with them is the constant battle to keep up with the ever dominant mounts in this game, PoR has a repetitive trend of giving you very spacious maps in which these units tend to get left behind (Chapter 21 with Ena if I'm not mistaken is a huge map) so again the SM class in general just ends up cleaning up scraps left behind.

One thing I do want to bring up is that the SM class although I tend to use one each playthrough I do often bench them should I find myself with a smaller number of allocatable units for a particular map.

We have;

6 Paladins

Marcia/Jill/Tanith

Mist

Reyson

Ike

So already that's 12 units that IMO have solid places in the team then we have other units who act as filler. The units I usually look at tend to be Janaff, Ranulf, Muarim, Haar, Tormod, Nephenee, Boyd, Soren and then a SM. Realistically some of these are temporary units and I acknowledge that but some units, namely Boyd and Nephenee are guarenteed those two spots as arguably some of the best foot units in the game which then gives me 14 units deployed each chapter.

Now as for the other units you really can't go wrong.

Tormod/Soren - Both quality mages and so useful for taking out those generals with high defense, if you have the Bexp and bands I tend to go for Tormod because that 8 movement comes in handy. Especially with the knights ring.

Janaff/Ranulf/Muarim - Out of the three of these Muarim is probably the most temporary of them all, he has a high str cap and can really do some damage but laguz take forever to level up. Typically I tend to go for Ranulf I think he's a quality unit and often under looked but to each their own.

Haar - A bit slow at times but if you have the bands you probably managed to save a speedwing from Boyd so you can use that to fix Haar's speed issue and throw a band at him too and he becomes useable!

SM - The swordsmaster class I have always considered as a support character in this game, I feel as though it's a temporary class and a bit gimmicky. Stick them up against a few generals with lances later in the game and you'll see the flaws quickly in this character type.

I understand some of the units that have permanent places in my team such as Geoffrey don't join till fairly late but you get the general idea I'm trying to make.

Now onto the actual characters themselves.

Stefan: Probably has the best character support out of all the SM's (Soren) as he's probably the most useable out of all the supports, unfortunately you probably want to pair Soren up with Ike instead for the avoid bonus. Stefan comes with the Vague Katti that provides defense bonus but the sword could easily be given to another SM of your liking. Stefan also has Astra(um?) which is a decent skill but the damage is halved which isn't fantastic on a class with such a low STR cap. Stefan also struggles from real luck issue and although you can give him every Ashera Icon in the game it still won't fix the issue entirely. Long story short Stefan is the SM you use if you neglected to train one earlier and there's nothing wrong with that.

Stefan is an above average character but if you allow for him to get hit you also run a high risk of him getting criticald and killed (Happened to me as early as chapter 16 to the halberdier with killer lance)

Zihark: Zihark is probably the easiest Myrmidon/SM to use due to earth affinity and starting with a killing edge, equipped with the knight band he can quickly catch up to the rest of your party without a BEXP dump (Which can be given to more useful characters like Marcia/Jill/Mist) and without valuable items like energy drops. Ziharks supports are fairly decent but the only useable one I can see is Muarim for a short period of time. Zihark's poor supports are made up by the fact his STR cap is two higher than Mia's which is a lot more valuable when you consider the vast amount of criticals he will be performing. As good as Zihark appears to be on paper I can't help but think his job could be done so much better by a sniper/Sage class, he's always going to be behind the mounts and just clearing up the odd enemy here or there. An above average unit but unfortunately he doesn't bring anything to the table

Zihark also has adept which is a fantastic skill for him due to the massive skill growth SM's have, duo this with a forged weapon and Zihark will clean up pretty well on units without vast amounts of defense. The vantage scroll is out of the question for Zihark I'm afraid as that tends to go to Nephenee.

Mia: Possibly the most controversial character in FE history. Mia comes in very weak and not very durable but a forge for the next chapter helps out immenseley, admittedly Rhys will have to babysit her for a bit but as it's a defend chapter it's not a huge problem. Mia has vantage which is a fantastic skill "if" she can critical on the first turn. Wrath vantage Mia is a great combo there is no denying that, however Wrath doesn't show up until Chapter 18 which still gives Mia 11 chapters of having to deal without it (15 if you count the stages of day breaks as seperate chapters) and as already stated the SM's tend to diminish a little bit in quality towards these chapters and struggle for placement. Mia also has fantastic supports in terms of additional attack power, these units come very early too in the case of Ilyana and Rhys, however niether of these units have a place in any team NOT based around Mia. Rhys is easily outclassed by Mist and Ilyana can't hold a candle to Soren or Tormod. Capped at 22 strength doesn't help Mia, especially on those harder difficulty modes.

Mia can be an incredible unit if pushed early on and then stocked with forges but if I wanted to base my team around one unit I'd give Boyd Wrath/Vantage and RNG abuse his stats for max defense and send him in with an inventory of hand axes and vulnerary/elixers. Overall Mia is a good unit if you use her as just that, if you try to force her into a great unit then you're going to be dissapointed later on. Wrath/Vantage Mia might be fun, but Wrath/Vantage Nephenee is even better with that 1-2 range accessibility.

Lucia: Comes in late, no noteworthy skills and the undisputed worst of the SM class. Not worth even deploying.

All in all, don't bother too much with the SM class, they're a decent class but they are in the wrong game. Dropping a SM in a game dominated by mounts and populated by enemies where the majority of them wield lances is just asking to get shish kebab'd. Mia and Zihark are the best SM's if you are going to use any from the start and Stefan if you change your mind later on, but none of these guys are the best foot units or even in the top three so why bother try to "force" them to work in your team.

One more thing, I'm basing this assessment on the normal/hard difficulty modes as that's where the flaws start to really show, you can get away with so much more in easy.

Edited December 18, 2014 by ClLoulD

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

the anwser is always makalov

[Chloe Neo]

Obvious answer is obvious use llyana in your team.