Fog of war discussion/hate thread.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

I hate fog of war. Fog of war is stupid. Forget strategizing because you won't even have a chance to prepare yourself from the attack. Flying enemy units are annoying too, especially when you're forced to bring extremely under leveled units into the chapter. You know what is even worse, fog of war in a desert map. No one can move anywhere. Who the hell buys torches? No one should be forced to buy such a crappy item.

That is all. Feel free to share your thoughts or personal experiences you had while playing these types of chapters.

I hope they never bring it back into future releases.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Rabbattack

[DragonLord]

The only time I've dreaded a fog of war chapter in an FE game was Chapter 19: The Dread Isle on Hector Hard Mode in FE7. Can't recall how many times I had to restart that one. Oh, but Living Legend on Hector Hard Mode was surprisingly easy, probably because Pent took out half of the enemies for me, haha. Then there's that desert chapter in FE6, Arcadia. That one was a major pain as well, you already mentioned why.

[Ansem]

I like FOW, its great in Thracia. You never know what will come out of the dark. Then I remember a map where horsebirds flew in and captured a unit and took her away. I couldnt find the horsebird, and that added to the difficulty of it.

[Prince Blueblood]

The strategy is to prepare yourself. High defense units (such as Armoured Knights) or perhaps high HP unit (for tanking vs magic) should be brought here and yes, in harder difficulty, bringing low level units to such map is asking yourself for trouble (and you should focus on some units anyway). And it's rare that you didn't have time to train your thief before, so at the very least, your thief should be able to dodge most of the attack (unless you bring severely underlevelled thief, or your enemy has Falcoknights).

I admit that Binding Blade is much harder than the other two GBA games, so... don't bring Wendy there (she'll get doubled and killed) uless she's got some decent level ups, bringing fragile magic user is suicide, so take your most durable (by dodging or by tanking) magic user at this point (most likely Lugh or Hugh)

Edited January 23, 2015 by Prince Blueblood

[DragonLord]

I couldnt find the horsebird, and that added to the difficulty of it.

Oh, I remember when I was doing my Hector Hard Mode Run on Living Legend, a Wyvern Rider was the last enemy unit remaining, and he kept using the fog to hide from my units as he was already weakened. It was fun finding him.

Edited January 23, 2015 by DragonLord

[Apotheosis]

I guess fog of war can be pretty annoying. I personally don't remember any chapters with fog of war in the desert unless there was some kind of... sandstorm? In my experiences with fog of war, I've never in my life used a torch. I also make a point of training my thieves because you know... free items from steal!

The only time fog of war really annoyed me was in Radiant Dawn, namely the chapter when you're preventing the laguz from crossing the Ribahn River. For me, this is always a really tricky stage since I think I'm the only person who finds it impossible to make the Dawn Brigade usable. I also love the chapter in Episode 2 when you're trying to advance through a cave with Leanne and SURPRISE a random warrior with a crossbow comes out of bloody nowhere.

Aside from those two stages, I enjoyed fog of war in Sacred Stones. I think it was more suitable in that game given the whole demonic monster situation and the battlefield goes all foggy and spooky... yeah.

[Yojinbo]

I think FoW is a legitimate mechanic that makes chapters more interesting. FE6 Desert Map without FoW would be pretty boring imo.

[Shinehollow]

I like the Fog of War even though the rest of the gamers in my family (A.K.A. my sister) hate it.I hate it when I'm grinding on SS and the freaking revannts don't come move anywhere and I have to move to every corner of the map to find it in the most obvious place.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i wouldn't mind fog of war if the enemy was also effected by it.

hell it'd be easier to keep wallace alive if he stopped attacking enemies outside vision range cause that means shit to the AI

Edited January 23, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Gradivus.]

FEWOD maps defeat FOW maps because I just look up where the enemies are. I find FoW maps alright aside from FE12!20x with that hellish Longbow!Sniper + Meteor + Spear!General onslaught corridor.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Prince Blueblood]

i wouldn't mind fog of war if the enemy was also effected by it.

hell it'd be easier to keep wallace alive if he stopped attacking enemies outside vision range cause that means shit to the AI

Sain and or Kent should already end up as Paladins in this point (unless you pick Lowen as your Paladin, and that means you must use him with Marcus, and won't be as easy since he isn't likely to one rounding enemies at this point unless you arena abuse him)

And you must recruit wallace with one of the Lyn group so...

Edited January 23, 2015 by Prince Blueblood

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Sain and or Kent should already end up as Paladins in this point (unless you pick Lowen as your Paladin, and that means you must use him with Marcus, and won't be as easy since he isn't likely to one rounding enemies at this point unless you arena abuse him)

the point is, the AI cheats at vision in fog of war maps

[General Horace]

i think they at least provide a change of pace, and the game always gives you a way to work around it (torches, torch staves) except for maybe the first few in thracia

[Paper Jam]

I wouldn't mind so much if the enemy and neutral units were also affected by Fog of War.

Heck, enemy units in Advance Wars ARE affected by Fog of War, so I know Intelligent Systems was capable of programming an AI to be affected by it.

[Ownagepuffs]

I hate how enemies get 20/20 fog vision. If they are affected by it, then FoW would be pretty gravy.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[CT075]

i don't think i've ever had trouble with FoW maps tbh

i also don't think making the enemy being affected by fog would really make the gameplay any better, since instead of them attacking you you're both just kind of running around tyring to crash into each other without "oh god why there are six guys here wtf wtf wtf"

maybe if they were affected but had limited vision range/were forced to use torch staves on a turn or something it might work better

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Why does this thread only refer to the GBA series? FoW also exists in Judgral and Tellius.

Anyway I like it because it increases the map variety and forces you to play more defensively.

It's a little bit comparable with ambush spawning for me, because I often don't know, when and where the enemies appear.

The only really annoying FoW map is chapter 14 in FE6 with the desert-effect and the bunch of annoying enemies (mages and dracos).

Edited January 23, 2015 by The Taninator

[MacLovin]

Sain and or Kent should already end up as Paladins in this point (unless you pick Lowen as your Paladin, and that means you must use him with Marcus, and won't be as easy since he isn't likely to one rounding enemies at this point unless you arena abuse him)

And you must recruit wallace with one of the Lyn group so...

bullshit.

Lowen's a perfectly capable unit without Arena Abuse. He's likely to be around 20/4-20/5 around that chapter. The only enemies he doesn't 1-2rko would be the swordies/wyverns [but wyvernslayer at 1 range :p], and promoted enemies w/o a crit. [He orko's HHM warriors with a crit+hit iirc.].

Also, FoW's a fun mechanic. A little rage-inducing at first, but it gives a bit of unpredictability in some chapters. [Deserts would be so boring if they're just crawlfests.]

[Prince Blueblood]

bullshit.

Lowen's a perfectly capable unit without Arena Abuse. He's likely to be around 20/4-20/5 around that chapter. The only enemies he doesn't 1-2rko would be the swordies/wyverns [but wyvernslayer at 1 range :p], and promoted enemies w/o a crit. [He orko's HHM warriors with a crit+hit iirc.].

Also, FoW's a fun mechanic. A little rage-inducing at first, but it gives a bit of unpredictability in some chapters. [Deserts would be so boring if they're just crawlfests.]

Its the 30% STR, SPD, and SKL growth, while I did once have Lowen that wasn't strength or speed screwed, if you play HHM on LTC and promote at level ~15-17 (instead of waiting / arena abusing to 20), Lowen will have stunted str and spd, or worse, can't hit shits at all...

that's it, unless you make savestate to at least gaining him some stats, he's practically unviable unless you take long run to actually train him to 20 before promotion... And usually in the same way, non SLK screwed Sain will always end up superior, as do non STR screwed Kent.

And considering the FOW map, the Wallace chapter in particular, Sain and Kent, if properly trained, could actually end up solo the Wallace gaining Part (but for maximum efficiency, use them in pairs esp if they support each others). Lowen just can't shine in this regard.

normally for MY cavs:

Casual play

Sain = Kent > Marcus > Lowen > Isadora

HHM ranked play

Marcus = Lyn trained Sain = Lyn trained Kent > Isadora > Non Lyn trained Kent > Non Lyn trained Sain > Lowen

yes, I'm always get frustrated with him for some reasons, other than aiming for supports, I rarely use Lowen. (Plus Rebbeca is far better paired with SAIN YOU PIG!!!)

Edited January 23, 2015 by Prince Blueblood

[Jotari]

I don't mind fog of war so long as they give me tense music.

[MacLovin]

Its the 30% STR, SPD, and SKL growth, while I did once have Lowen that wasn't strength or speed screwed, if you play HHM on LTC and promote at level ~15-17 (instead of waiting / arena abusing to 20), Lowen will have stunted str and spd, or worse, can't hit shits at all...

that's it, unless you make savestate to at least gaining him some stats, he's practically unviable unless you take long run to actually train him to 20 before promotion... And usually in the same way, non SLK screwed Sain will always end up superior, as do non STR screwed Kent.

And considering the FOW map, the Wallace chapter in particular, Sain and Kent, if properly trained, could actually end up solo the Wallace gaining Part (but for maximum efficiency, use them in pairs esp if they support each others). Lowen just can't shine in this regard.

normally for MY cavs:

Casual play

Sain = Kent > Marcus > Lowen > Isadora

HHM ranked play

Marcus = Lyn trained Sain = Lyn trained Kent > Isadora > Non Lyn trained Kent > Non Lyn trained Sain > Lowen

yes, I'm always get frustrated with him for some reasons, other than aiming for supports, I rarely use Lowen. (Plus Rebbeca is far better paired with SAIN YOU PIG!!!)

Growths aren't the be all end all in LTC.

Lowen is still just as viable due to the only mount that matches marcus in availibility. [And when Marcus leaves things with a sliver of HP, he's the only non lord unit worth pumping the exp into.]

And speaking of LTC, he's still useful due to rescue.

In drafts, he's a first round pick right behind Florina/Fiora in a standard HHM draft. [iIRC]

In the case of FoW, Lowen would be a decent unit to scout ahead a little with the move and defense to take hits.

[Prince Blueblood]

cavalry worth in FOW maps are cavalry who can dash into thick fog and kill everything (or kill most of the things) that was thrown at him in LTC game.

Lowen maybe has better HP and def, but then, he kills one and leave every other enemy that attack him alive even if he's equipped with Javelin.

I admit that non Lyn trained Sain sometimes can't hit shit at all, and thus Lowen is better choice for this particular task, but Kent is there for a reason, he's there to hit shits that Sain cannot hit. But in LHM to HHM, Sain and Kent should be more than viable to charge in blind and kill everything with Javelins to talk to wallace ASAP (more if you actually give magic ring to Kent and secret book to Sain - Angelic Robe is reserved for Lyn as always, but magic ring is better on her I think)

Alright, back to FOW and this time we talk about chapter 13x (where you protect Merlinus and there's no Sain or Kent), could Lowen do anything except as a wall and weakening things so Rebecca and or Bartre finish it off?

[Klokinator]

the point is, the AI cheats at vision in fog of war maps

yay fexna with toggles for this

[Siuloir]

There's always way to counter FoW. Torches, thief vision, slow advances with durable units, etc. You still know the entire lay of the land, as well.

Give me more Thracia Fog of War.

[X-Naut]

I only find Fog of War bullshit in the following scenarios:

1. You get no answers and constricted vision range (although this is tolerable depending on the enemy density).

2. Absurdly large groups of mounted units, especially fliers (this is a problem without FoW too albeit somewhat less).

3. Spamming siege weapons and/or mobile siege users.

I don't see what the big deal is about the added trial-and-error, even normal chapters can have a lot of that. Plus there are ways to mitigate that as Siuloir pointed out. Enemies being affected too would have less impact than you think because while your units start in one spot, they start all over the place. If they don't see you from the start, you won't either, and they'll know where you are by deductive reasoning. The only thing they'd lose is being able to attack blindly in the rare situations that would occur. And the dreaded desert + fog of war combo? Pffft. It's not like removing the fog would fix the movement problems; and in a way the desert is helping you by slowing down some of the enemies.

My only gripes are that only thieves get the vision bonus (which could stand to be smaller if more got it) and there's no option to blindly attack whenever you collide with a hidden enemy. If ambush fliers is such a big sore point then their movement could be cut in maps with Fog of War, and that could double as a situational nerf to your own fliers.