Resetless Lunatic+ Run COMPLETED (Deathless) (With Complete Guide)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

It can't be that. Someone got some video evidence of the phenomenon a while back using maps saves to confirm the difference, and a pair who had fought a very large number of battles together was shown to take exactly one more battle (in the same map) to reach the next rank. That would only happen if the growth was either slowed or drained, not capped (unless it's a cap per turn, but I doubt that).

A cap per turn wouldn't be consistent with the Robin/Lissa C not seeming to grow as intended too, given that Prologue is full of single turn actions with her.

I'll try sniper for my next run. Biggest con I had found in my other run vs assasin was the lack of options vs aegis enemies. At least with an assassin class Robin you can switch to a sword vs aegis.

By the way, I think found a strat that let constantly Robin land the killing blow on the boss in C1. Let me know if you guys are interested in hearing it.

That could be an issue, although failing to get a Galeforce kill on an Aegis+ enemy with a bow is much less dangerous than with other weapon types (since Counter is the chief threat in that case). I'd say that significantly weakening Hawkeye is likely worth the trade-off, though.

As for the C1 strat, shoot. I'm always willing to hear new stuff.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Guide update notification: Added a bunch of notes surrounding variations of aggressive strats for C3. Also, how to do the ultra-safe wave 2 strat. Added some minor updates to the C4 and P1 notes too, although it's pretty much all gear notation. I might need to look into additional strats for P1, but for now, I'll leave it be.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Starting runs soon: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[aven555]

Alright, I finally found time to write the tactic I used in C1. Running as STR/Luck asset/flaw Robin.
The first 2 turns are almost identical to your start Kuroi. These are the only differences:

Turn 1
Move Lissa one tile left of where she starts.

Turn 2
Have Sully pair up with Lissa (should at the exact reachable range).
Move Lissa 4 tiles left, 1 tile up. Drop Sully 1 north of Lissa.

Now this is where it gets different. Multiples scenarios can happen from here. Major difference is the direct the archer will go. Either he will go right (A scenario) or he will go up (B scenario) I wont go into all the variables as this is take forever. As far as I know, Scenario B seems to happen more often. On 6 of my tries in my test, 5 of them were B. Fortunately, its the more easier and safest one.

Turn 3A
Move Robin 2 tiles up the injured merc, attack with thunder. This move is the major break point, if merc has patience this can be pretty risky. In my test, I had 10 skill (lvl 7) with a hit rate of 66 %. With Chrom as support this has an estimated 75 % chance of succeed (0.66 + (0.34 * 0.34 * 0.75)). If this succeed it potentially puts you in range of 2 enemy attacks (verify their skills to make sure you survive).
Move Frederic 1 tile up Robin, consider giving Fred to Robin if he cant survive. If badly injured (less than 12 hp Id say) give him a vulnerary.
Have Lissa pair with Sully again and move all the way back to 1 tile up Fred. Swap to Lissa and heal Fred.
Archer should attack Robin and Robin should retaliate with thunder.
Barb should attack Robin and Robin should retaliate and kill him. (This only happens if he was in range in some less frequent cases he attack Fred from the left side making him unable to reach Robin this turn. No big deal.)

Turn 4A
There is a couple of things you can do here. If you have 10 Str or more and the barb doesnt have +5 Hp, you can move Fred 4 tiles up, 1 tile left swap to Virion and attack the barb. Move Robin to the right of the barb and swap Chrom for Fred. Attack with bronze sword for the kill (care if the barb has vantage). Have Lissa 1 tile left of Robin if she can survive an archer hit and heal Robin. Otherwise, move her left to Virion.
Otherwise, if you have enough hp with a Lissa heal to sustain both the archer and hammer guy. Move Fred 3 tiles up 1 tile left and attack Barb. Move Robin 4 tiles up, (swap Virion if you need the extra def to survive) and attack Barb for the kill. Have Lissa move 1 tile up of Robin to heal.

Turn 5A
From there its pretty much: use what you must to kill both of the enemies in range to attack, or to keep only the archer without a killing target. Boss should still be out of range. I could start naming some of the strats I used, but it varies so much from one time to another that it wouldnt matter much. Just keep in mind that the boss will be in range to attack next turn, plan weak units moves accordingly.

Turn 6A
Kill last enemy, or/and move to border attack range of the boss with Robin, heal with Lissa.

Turn 3B
Exactly the same as Turn 3A except that the archer cant reach you. You should therefore have Fred trade with Robin the trade thunder with bronze sword.

Turn 4B
Same as Turn 4B except that once again the archer cant reach you (are you beginning to understand how this one is easier J )

Turn 5B
Move 2 tiles right of hammer guy and finish with Robin thunder, use Virion if to soften if necessary. Move Lissa right to Robin and have her Trade him Robin, swap Sword for Thunder. And heal if necessary. Boss still not in range will be next turn.

Turn 6B
Kill archer and have Robin stand in the range of the boss or not, depends if she/he is healthy. In any cases, you should be able to finish archer easily here.

Turn 7 and up.
Kite the boss around the map with Robin and have Lissa heal all the way. This will get some free hits/exp on the boss.

Well, this took longer than expected. This is what I use every time I use a STR asset Robin. Im fairly sure it works with other builds just dont use a HP or DEF flaw J.
Let me know if you see any flaws that I havent seen. I ran this quite a few times, and I have a fairly good success rate. When I fails its usually that I do a stupid mistake like taking a vulnerary instead of attacking!

Edited October 2, 2015 by aven555

[aven555]

On a side note I took on the hype of the resetless challenge and I went as far as completing C8 using my str/luck build (wans't a deathless run though!). Thing is, I was my worst enemy : I accidentally remove the cartridge from my 3DS... And I didn't save the run. Fml.

Edited October 1, 2015 by aven555

[Czar_Yoshi]

This move is the major break point, if merc has patience this can be pretty risky. In my test, I had 10 skill (lvl 7) with a hit rate of 66 %. With Chrom as support this has an estimated 75 % chance of succeed (0.66 + (0.34 * 0.34 * 0.75)

Something's fishy, where are you getting those numbers from? And did you remember True Hit?

[Vascela]

I don't know if the math is accurate, but I think the 0.34 comes from dual strike. With the other numbers coming from displayed hit.

[Czar_Yoshi]

It should, yeah, but unless two DSes are needed to kill the target...

[aven555]

Well merc just got hit by Fred, so he has 1 hp left. A single blow from Chrom would do it.

Here is the detail for the number : 0.66 (hit % by Robin) + ( 0.34 ( % you don't hit enemy with Robin) * 0.34 (% Chrom DS) * 0.75 % (Chrom % hit chance with rapier) = 0.75

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

On a side note I took on the hype of the resetless challenge and I went as far as completing C8 using my str/luck build (wans't a deathless run though!). Thing is, I was my worst enemy : I accidentally remove the cartridge from my 3DS... And I didn't save the run. Fml.

That sucks, man. Well, at least if you can make it that far once, you should be capable of doing it again.

I haven't had a chance to try out your strat yet. Hopefully I can get to it this weekend.

Well merc just got hit by Fred, so he has 1 hp left. A single blow from Chrom would do it.

Here is the detail for the number : 0.66 (hit % by Robin) + ( 0.34 ( % you don't hit enemy with Robin) * 0.34 (% Chrom DS) * 0.75 % (Chrom % hit chance with rapier) = 0.75

Is that against displayed hit or true hit? If it's the former, your actual chance of success with true hit is closer to 85%. So not completely reliable, but still not bad.

Anyway, I finally got around to editing that last run. Find the links there: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5

There was just so much wrong with this run. I guess Yololi wanted her deathless run to be about as YOLO as possible. I thought my first run was pretty close to as bad as it could get, as far as RNG goes, but this one just had to go and prove me wrong. Despite being more experienced with sounder strats, this run clocked in at 14:28:48, which was nearly a half hour slower than run #1.

A few highlights of just what went wrong:

-Robin being behind the curve in Mag and Def for pretty much 3/4 of the game. This was so bad that I had chug 3 Elixir uses to get through C7. The Mag also became enough of a problem that I had to spend extra on forges to make up the deficit, which totally wrecked my item budget.

-Chrom was behind the Def curve too. This resulted in a Morgan with 13 starting Def.

-Morgan followed in his mother's footsteps by also continually being behind the curve in Def. This resulted in the both of them still having Def in the 20s around C20. Morgan just barely cleared 30 near the end of the game and Robin didn't cap out until around there.

-Rare, exceptionally bad P4 movement almost cost me the Arms Scroll (gave up an extra Rescue use instead)

-Between a screw-up on my part and very bad luck with enemies, couldn't save the P3 Villager

On the upside, I think I found a new favourite spot for C24. The top-left Fort is right next to a Wood tiles. It's not as good as the C19 back-to-back Fort formation, but I did some number crunching and Morgan can theoretically push 152 Avoid on the Fort (130 on the Woods for Robin). This assumes Yewfelle, relevant Tonics and rank 6 support, which isn't too bad (only the Robin/Morgan B is potentially tricky). This gives Morgan enough to cause serious problems for even the sword enemies. Robin will make it iffy for them, but still roughly 50/50. However, Morgan will be the first target because of the way the Woods are formed, allowing him to dodge tank. On top of that, the enemy 1~2 range will engage him first and generally get wrecked.

[aven555]

Nice, gratz on your fourh run! When is a male deathless run coming? :)

And I made my calculation with displayed hit so you're right it's actually more around 85%.

Edited October 2, 2015 by aven555

[Czar_Yoshi]

If male ever comes, it won't be until after female is significantly down in time, because male is likely to be a lot longer due to not having GF and thus needing more safety strats.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Thanks.

As for male Robin deathless, I did some thinking on it, and I think it would likely be faster than the typical female Robin run, but also risk dying more easily. A lot of the early game and keeping the scrubs alive would look very similar to female Robin's run. The two biggest issues post-Sorc would be that without a vastly overpowered flier, that block of maps that's trivialized by Dark Flier is suddenly something I have to be careful about again. Not having that and Galeforce also means missing out on several resources. The lack of Galeforce would also mean that fitting Hero or Dark Knight (for Sol or Life Taker) would be kind of a scary, but necessary prospect. I haven't done the math on it to see if I can get away with one-shots for a while, but there's a very real danger of too much Counter wrecking the run.

I'd probably have to run a Robin/Chrom duo without anything else (except maybe the promoted Cordelia to save Henry and Cherche) with a class route of: Tact -> Dark Mage -> Sorc -> Assassin -> Hero/Dark Knight -> Warrior. Key acquisitions would include Anathema, Pass, Sol/Life Taker and Vengeance. I would very likely unequip Lethality to stop it from blocking Sol (I could leave it on with Lifetaker). I'm unsure about the feasibility of going to 15 instead of 10 for Hero or Dark Knight, though. And really, if I got to 15, getting both Sol and Axebreaker is probably better. Anyway, tactics would likely consist of turtling in the corner shooting everything to death until it's time to utilize Pass. Or, if a Fort exists on the map, making use of that. C23 would likely get really stupid, because of the need for being aggressive with Hand Axes to protect Basilio and Flavia, but the fact that Counter could just completely wreck that. On the upside, Warrior Vengeance Brave Bow would probably just plain destroy Grima.

Since completion rate is already pretty iffy with the safer female run, I don't know if I'd really want to do one with even more RNG. I guess I'll think about it.

[aven555]

Good thoughts. Did you look into having more than just Robin-Chrom? I'm actually looking into a 6 man team doing the run for a deathless male Robin. It's not... Still wondering what would be the best partner for Chrom.

I am in the middle of a test thought. Going with Sumia-Chrom, Panne-Robin. Robin asset/flaw is Hp/luck. So far resetless at C9. Robin lvl 1 Assassin, Sumia lvl 16 Peg. Then planning to get Morgan, Lucina.

The timing for seals is going to be tricky though. I would have liked for Sumia to go dark flyer but that's not going to happen giving the next master seal available. Still pondering if I make her a knight, and say good bye to her mobility.

Anyways, the early chapters are certainly doable, it's the mid-late game I'm afraid of.

Edited October 3, 2015 by aven555

[Czar_Yoshi]

I'm using dual Pegs on my current Lunatic+ run and averaging about 1 death per chapter (most of which are caused by reinforcements since I'm not looking at the enemy data), and the extra offensive power afforded by having a large team is definitely a thing (so much so that I saved Marth in Cht.6 on my first try, and was able to take Severa's Paralogue before Cht.14). I wouldn't want to try large-team Resetless single-segment, though, because having so many units makes stat growth and level progression extremely random and would require a large amount of strategy to be done on the fly, which takes a looong time.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, I did give some thought to Sumia-Chrom and Robin-Cordelia, but was, likewise, really wary about random stats. I often have enough issues with Robin and Morgan as is (Chrom and Lucina can somewhat get away with not growing as well simply because WEXP can let me throw continually stronger weaponry at them for a while). I guess Cordelia would likely get pretty strong without much effort by virtue of hanging around Robin, but I'm not sure how much opportunity I'll really have to push for a consistently strong Sumia.

[aven555]

Hmmm I like the idea of Robin-Cordelia. It gives extra mobility for Robin and she has good starting stats. The upside of using Panne is her really good max stats that are then carried on to Morgan but that's pretty much it. Not sure it's worth basing a strat on max stats when you may never get there. I'll try both and I'll keep you posted.

Edited October 4, 2015 by aven555

[Shadow Mir]

Hmmm I like the idea of Robin-Cordelia. It gives extra mobility for Robin and she has good starting stats. The upside of using Panne is her really good max stats that are then carried on to Morgan but that's pretty much it. Not sure it's worth basing a strat on max stats when you may never get there. I'll try both and I'll keep you posted.

The big downside to Robin/Panne - no weapon ranks for poor Morgan. That's something to consider...

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah, I did give some thought to Sumia-Chrom and Robin-Cordelia, but was, likewise, really wary about random stats. I often have enough issues with Robin and Morgan as is (Chrom and Lucina can somewhat get away with not growing as well simply because WEXP can let me throw continually stronger weaponry at them for a while). I guess Cordelia would likely get pretty strong without much effort by virtue of hanging around Robin, but I'm not sure how much opportunity I'll really have to push for a consistently strong Sumia.

Oh, I basically forgot about Chrom and Robin and had the Pegs hard lead from Cht.8 onwards (as soon as they could manage on their own). It was the only way both of them were making it to 20/15 in time for quadruple GF passdowns.

That did mean Robin was stuck as a 20/10 Merc for a really long time, though he was still good enough to come back in and MVP for Cynthia's paralogue where he very quickly caught up to everyone else.

[aven555]

The big downside to Robin/Panne - no weapon ranks for poor Morgan. That's something to consider...

You're right I did forget about that, starting all the way back from E on any weapon rank is not going to be easy!

Edited October 4, 2015 by aven555

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Alright, I finally found time to write the tactic I used in C1. Running as STR/Luck asset/flaw Robin.

The first 2 turns are almost identical to your start Kuroi. These are the only differences:

...

Okay, gave the strats some tries and here are my concerns:

-In the variation where the Archer goes right and the Fighter attacks Fred from the bottom and Robin has to fight them both at once, this can be risky. Robin is likely to survive them if they don't have Luna+, but if either or both does, even passing over Fred might not be enough (although, this chance becomes extremely minimal with a +Def Robin). Further, having to trade over Fred messes up the Virion positioning later, as well as depriving him of damage, which also means Robin will need way more Str to Bronze Sword the Fighter to death in one hit, Even if Robin can double and kill him, the wounds from the previous turn might be too much for Lissa to heal. Standing 2 tiles away puts Robin in range of the other enemy.

-Lissa can technically survive an Archer hit no matter what the skill build (18 HP vs 17 Attack), but she needs to gain Spd over her 1 or 2 levels to have a Sully pair protect her from being doubled. This can cause Robin to be in even more survivability trouble.

-If the Archer goes up, it gets a little cramped at the end, where the party is forced to make attacks on the Archer and Boss when they're on Woods tiles. This makes Fred weakening anything a bit scary, because he's looking at ~75 displayed Hit twice.

Let me know if I missed some solution to these that you didn't mention.

I also started revising my C5 notes. I think I'm going to need a lot of screen shots, since some of it is pretty hard to describe concisely. I'm also debating whether or not to include the adapted turtling notes. I mean, they're still good and will get the job that they're supposed to done, but I can't even remember the last time I used turtling tactics for that chapter. I'm leaning toward yes, though, since it provides way for an extremely Def-screwed Robin to squeeze by the chapter. In any event, I need to get the screenshots taken and sorted so that I can revise the steps to be less wall-of-texty.

[aven555]

Alright, first of all thanks for trying my variation of C1.

All valid points,but yes I do have some solutions to theses problems! Sorry that I forgot to mention them !

For the variation where the archer goes to the right, and the fighter attacks Fred from the bottom, you are right that it can be risky. I found that with a str build I could survive easily one of them having luna. Str as an asset does add a 5 % growth rate to def (up to 45 %) so you would have to be really def screwed not to survive it. Also, if the fighter doesn't have hawkeye, his hit rate is around 35 % if I remember correctly. That being said, you can always check those 2 enemy specifically at the beginning of the map. If your def is really low, or if both have luna, you can simply decide to go with your strat.

Very true for Lissa. I redid it and I it was the perfect test since she didn't gain any speed in her 2 level up. I found that you can actually block the archer pathing with Virion (North-West of archer and giving he doesn't have pass) and attack the last fighter with him. Finish with Robin and then you can heal with Lissa safely. This also solve the other issues to make attack on wood tiles since the archer will attack Virion (and he will counter). If I remember correctly, the archer was then on a plain tile and I could finish with Robin paired with Fred (str build). This also prepared the fight against the boss as you can then move downwards with all your team and do 3-4 turns of kiting to kill him.

In the case where the archer has pass and Lissa didn't gain any speed, you could Robin/Chrom next to Virion/Fred (who just attack the fighter) transfer Fred in and kill the fighter with him. Lissa can then move safely out of range. Not the ideal xp wise, but it does get you through safely.

That's it! If you have any question regarding my explanation, please don't hesitate. I know it's not always easy to be clear without capturing your ds screen :(.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Str as an asset does add a 5 % growth rate to def (up to 45 %) so you would have to be really def screwed not to survive it.

Over the expected 6-7 levelups that would happen before that point, that extra Def growth would be expected to add an average +0.3 Def to Robin- it would be more likely to see no change than be 1 point above neutral. And I doubt that'll make much of a difference.

[aven555]

If you look only at the 5%, you're right.

But vs a speed/skill Robin, that gap goes to 10 %. which takes the average variance to a 0.6, 0.7 def . Still not big but it can make the difference (35 % vs 45 % ) in some cases.

**After the following analysis, I did realized that i did now matter much since in both cases the chances of surviving one of them having luna are very high and the chance to be tanky enough to survive 2 luna are very low. Let's see how I got there.

Here are the attack of the enemies :

Fighter 13 str + 7 iron axe + 1 from mastery = 21

Archer 9 str + 6 iron bow + 2 from mastery = 17

Suppose Robin is lvl 7. With 80 % hp growth , her expected hp is : 19 + (6 * 0.8) = 23.8 (so let's say 24)

If she don't get any def lvl up, (6 def + 4 def from Fred) she gets hit for (21 - 10) + (17 - 10 ) = 18

If Archer has luna she gets hit for (21 - 10) + (17 - 5) = 22

If Fighter has luna she gets hit for (21 - 5) + (17 - 10) = 22

At the expected Hp growth, Robin survive even with no def lvl up if one of the enemy has luna.

For her to survive the 2 enemies having luna she would need 10 def (+4 from Fred) - (so 4 def lvl up)

Getting hit by 2 luna enemies : (21 - 7) + (17 - 7) = 24 .... Dead.

But if you equip the sword after hitting with thunder (with trade) : (20 - 7) + (17 - 7) = 23

Very precarious but hey, she could survive.

Now to get to 10 def in 6 lvl up that would mean 66 % def lvl up. That is way over the expected def in both cases. (I'll look it up to find both %, but it won't be high that's for sure)

Edited October 9, 2015 by aven555

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Going off a 9 Spd, 7 Luk Robin...

For the Fighter Hit rate, Robin will have 23 base Avoid with Chrom or 18 with Fred. Taking into account support rank 2 and Woods, that's 43 or 38. The Fighter has 104 Hit, so we're looking at 61/66 displayed Hits. Using the Bronze Sword can bring that down to 46/51, which isn't exactly reliable either way, but has to give up the chance to counter the Archer to achieve this. This doesn't seem like a good trade when we're being chased into the corner.

Before I move to my chief concern, though, I want to point out that you appear to have missed the Woods Def in your calculations.

While giving Fred to Robin gives a good chance of surviving one Luna+ or possibly even two, there's still the issue of Fred no longer being above Robin. This deprives him of healing, as well as meaning Chrom or Virion is in the lead. This doesn't give them enough movement to attack from the Woods NE of the Fighter on T3. They can attack from 2 tiles to the right, but that's in range of the Hammer Fighter. Further, this deprives Virion of 4 damage, meaning that Robin may not be able to one-shot an injured non-HP+5 Fighter. This doesn't even take into account if the Fighter has Vantage+. After being attacked by two units, Robin doesn't have any real chance to heal, which could make this deadly, even if Virion could get into position. And even with Chrom instead of Fred, a 9 Spd Robin isn't doubling the Fighter, which is a problem., So, even assuming Virion/Fred gets to attack from the NE and Robin attacks from 2 tiles to the right to avoid Vantage+, that puts Robin in range of the Hammer guy while simultaneously being unable to finish him off due to a failure to double. Sully (or a lucky Dual Strike from either Chrom or Fred) could probably trade and transfer to cover the finishing blow, but then Lissa can't heal Robin, which, after already getting beaten on by two enemies, is likely to be fatal.