Classes that need a buff/nerf?

[Blaze The Great]

Buff archers (slightly) by bringing back daggers and locking them to archers/thieves. I think this would be interesting with class trees something like this:

-Sniper (Bows, Daggers)

Archer(Bows)--I

-Bow Knight (Bows, Swords)

-Assassin (Daggers, Bows)

Thief(Daggers, Swords)--I

-Trickster (Swords, Staves)

Make daggers better than they were in FE10, a little bit more powerful and with actual crit. They were a good concept and they should make a return because it isn't too farfetched. Also give archers and thieves better overall offensive stats.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Blaze The Great

[Shadow Mir]

Buff archers (slightly) by bringing back daggers and locking them to archers/thieves. I think this would be interesting with class trees something like this:

-Sniper (Bows, Daggers)

Archer--I

...Aaaaaand just what do you think this'll accomplish? It ain't going to help much for them to get a weapon option that allows them to do what everyone else can, but worse.

[Ownagepuffs]

I'm pretty sure if they got 9001 buffs, people would use them because they would be simply overpowered.

I'm not the one requesting stat buffs though, I know that there are further ways to go about making a class more usable. In-game context is key, which is why I mentioned them being useful in L+.

I know you're not the one requesting 9001 buffs, but there seems to be a few silly ideas floating around in this thread. All you have to do is create demand for the class, not give it a bunch of buffs.

RD was kind to archers (or rather, Shinon) but they still suffered from their fundamental problems, especially since the game did not create a demand for them. 3-P and 3-1 are straight up perfect examples of how to create demand for your archers. 3-P had accessible ballista, 3-1 had a wall and plenty of 1-2 range enemies on the other side. The rest, sadly, is still a mount stomp.

Nerfing 1-2 range weaponry significantly is one of the better ways to indirectly buff archers and mages. Having a lot of dangerous flier enemy types is another good way to indirectly buff them. These 2 ideas would do more for archers than statistical buffs would. Or course, stat buffs would still be appreciated.

That being said, it is a lot easier to create demand for archers than knights. At least archers have a few games where they've been able to shine. Knights/Generals? Ouch.

[omega zero]

Maybe archers and snipers should get +1 range if they are on terrain like forests, mountains and forts. Thematically it makes sense, they have a better angle and more stuff in their line of site. There have been several clever ways to encourage bow use, it's just that the devs seem kinda inconsistent when it comes to implementing such techniques.

As for our armored friends, it just seems to me that at lower difficulties, their defense is overkill, so you might as well use a class with less defense but more speed/res/movement/whatever. At higher difficulties, they get shredded despite their defense.

[Irysa]

I hate Pegasus Knights, and most of her other reclassing options suck. Oh, and General is my favourite class (technically, it's Marshall, but it doesn't exist in Awakening, so...).

Sage is pretty good.

But regardless, you've demonstrated the point - You picked a class for a reason other than skills.

[Ownagepuffs]

Maybe archers and snipers should get +1 range if they are on terrain like forests, mountains and forts. Thematically it makes sense, they have a better angle and more stuff in their line of site. There have been several clever ways to encourage bow use, it's just that the devs seem kinda inconsistent when it comes to implementing such techniques.

As for our armored friends, it just seems to me that at lower difficulties, their defense is overkill, so you might as well use a class with less defense but more speed/res/movement/whatever. At higher difficulties, they get shredded despite their defense.

That's a neat idea. We would have to have several terrain heavy maps in order to make it not a gimmick but a core aspect of the class. For the longest time I've been think 3rd tier Archers get 1-3 Range. They do half damage at 1 range and get half accurate at 3/range (unless they are using a weapon that already has 3 range).

For Armored knights there was a whole thread about it in the General FE forum. I personally don't think there will ever be a place for them so long as the objectives favor movement and offense. Oswin is as good as it gets in my opinion. RD once again gets props for trying with Gatrie.

[Masadeer]

small maps with clear conditions such as survive X bumber of turns without letting enemies onto Y space would favor Heavy armor units. Especially if there are cluster points and elevated ledges for your ranged weapons. (you have no idea how much i loved that ledge mechanic)

counter would be nice as well. scratch that, I've just realized counter can horribly screw you over when the objective is defend.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Masadeer

[omega zero]

Perhaps Counter should be changed to an enemy exclusive skill. Warriors ought to get something else. A "Provoke" skill would be interesting (not necessarily on Warrior), to draw enemies towards you even if there is a weaker target in their range. Though it would need to adjusted of course, maybe using the skill would give you a Def/Res debuff for the turn.

[NekoKnight]

That's a neat idea. We would have to have several terrain heavy maps in order to make it not a gimmick but a core aspect of the class. For the longest time I've been think 3rd tier Archers get 1-3 Range. They do half damage at 1 range and get half accurate at 3/range (unless they are using a weapon that already has 3 range).

For Armored knights there was a whole thread about it in the General FE forum. I personally don't think there will ever be a place for them so long as the objectives favor movement and offense. Oswin is as good as it gets in my opinion. RD once again gets props for trying with Gatrie.

Bingo. The solution for armor knights is the same as archers. Create maps where they are useful (Defend maps for example) or enemy unit compositions that favor them (maps with a lot of fast but low damage enemies).

[Jotari]

Maybe archers and snipers should get +1 range if they are on terrain like forests, mountains and forts. Thematically it makes sense, they have a better angle and more stuff in their line of site. There have been several clever ways to encourage bow use, it's just that the devs seem kinda inconsistent when it comes to implementing such techniques.

I really like this idea.

[KMT4ever]

This isn't exactly a buff or nerf, but we need Halberdiers back. Let us use Soldiers. Make lances more prevalent. As it is the vast majority of infantry in Awakening use swords and axes, which makes your own axe users pretty useless. Knights are too slow and pegasi are too squishy.

[NinjaMonkey]

Sage is pretty good.

Not with her 40% magic growth it isn't (regardless of the fact that she can infinitely level).

But regardless, you've demonstrated the point - You picked a class for a reason other than skills.

While that's true of her final class, all of her intermediate classes were picked simply to acquire skills (Dark Flier for Galeforce, Great Knight for Luna, etc).

Edited March 8, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Irysa]

Not with her 40% magic growth it isn't (regardless of the fact that she can infinitely level).

Her str growth is not really much better even in the best classes. Having less mag is also not as big a deal cause enemy resistance is much lower.

While that's true of her final class, all of her intermediate classes were picked simply to acquire skills (Dark Flier for Galeforce, Great Knight for Luna, etc).

Yeah but if the skills were tied to class, you'd still make her a general anyway out of preference no?

[Vascela]

Giving Archers 1 range makes them gain value on enemy phase, but it makes them extremely underwhelming on player phase (if you are using 2-3 range on player phase, then you aren't using 1 range for enemies* and the opposite holds true as well, nobody wants to use archers for a 1 range when you have better 1 range units).

I don't think handing archers 1 range is the solution. I think there needs to be more class specific boons for certain chapters. I don't want there to be a "defense chapter" where Knights are the clear superiority (too much of a polarization or a call for a specific class). I think there needs to be small changes in maps that allow a reward for fielding a certain unit type. Such as in chapter 23x of FE7. There is a reward for using bows (such as Kishuna KO). It's nowhere near necessary, but you are rewarded for it.

*without trading shenanigans which can be useful in specific situations, but this applies to all multi weapon users; or IS could implement weapon selection at the beginning of fights as a toggle option

[arvilino]

Perhaps Counter should be changed to an enemy exclusive skill. Warriors ought to get something else. A "Provoke" skill would be interesting (not necessarily on Warrior), to draw enemies towards you even if there is a weaker target in their range. Though it would need to adjusted of course, maybe using the skill would give you a Def/Res debuff for the turn.

I kind of wish Counter was a level 10 Fighter Skill instead, except always dealing 5 damage(maybe 10) and making it no longer cancelled by Dragon Skin. It wouldn't be as powerful but the player would get more use out of it in the main campaign.

Provoke would be interesting as a Warrior Skill though, especially in conjunction with Counter.

[Jedi]

Giving Archers 1 range makes them gain value on enemy phase, but it makes them extremely underwhelming on player phase (if you are using 2-3 range on player phase, then you aren't using 1 range for enemies* and the opposite holds true as well, nobody wants to use archers for a 1 range when you have better 1 range units).

I don't think handing archers 1 range is the solution. I think there needs to be more class specific boons for certain chapters. I don't want there to be a "defense chapter" where Knights are the clear superiority (too much of a polarization or a call for a specific class). I think there needs to be small changes in maps that allow a reward for fielding a certain unit type. Such as in chapter 23x of FE7. There is a reward for using bows (such as Kishuna KO). It's nowhere near necessary, but you are rewarded for it.

*without trading shenanigans which can be useful in specific situations, but this applies to all multi weapon users; or IS could implement weapon selection at the beginning of fights as a toggle option

The sad part is defense maps don't even reward Knights and Generals.

Bows have been rewarded in various games at least, see fe2, 6, 10, 12 for the best examples.

[omega zero]

Maybe, instead of Outdoors Fighter, Knights should get a skill that gives them +2 Def for each time they take a physical hit, with some cap on the possible gains. If they move, however, then they lose the gains.

[Glitchy]

Sorcs need a nerf (maybe Dark Mages and Sorcs can only use Dark Magic) and Snipers need any kind of buff.

[NinjaMonkey]

Her str growth is not really much better even in the best classes. Having less mag is also not as big a deal cause enemy resistance is much lower.

Having tried to use magic with Dark Knight!Virion, the fact that enemy res sucks makes no difference.

Sorcs need a nerf (maybe Dark Mages and Sorcs can only use Dark Magic)

Yes, because being locked to Nosferatu/Aversa's Night/Ruin is totally a nerf.

Edited March 9, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Glitchy]

I meant more like the GBA Druids. They could nerf the dark magic. And they should bring Summoners back too.

[Ownagepuffs]

Having tried to use magic with Dark Knight!Virion, the fact that enemy res sucks makes no difference.

Use stronger tomes. You'd be surprised how far even just 20 magic can get you. I had Sumia entering endgame with like 25 magic. Didn't stop her from raping face all the way until that point.

[Robert Stewart]

Honestly for knights I just say at least give them regular move

it wouldn't instantly fix all their problems, but it's something. would be better than all the weird convoluted solutions I see to "fix" knights that I don't even think would work.

*shrug*

[Vascela]

The sad part is defense maps don't even reward Knights and Generals.

Bows have been rewarded in various games at least, see fe2, 6, 10, 12 for the best examples.

6 and 10 do not have rewarded Bow use. Shinon eclipsed the other bow users who are much, much worse than the rest of the cast.

6 didn't favor bows at all. 12 had the same syndrome as L+ for awakening where player phase became much more valuable than the enemy phase for reverse. But bows don't prosper on non-top-of-the-line difficulties. That should be identified as a problem.

[-Cynthia-]

6 does have some uses for bows. Javelins and Hand Axes are inaccurate and most of the magic users in the game don't have enough stats to fight extended combats well. The Sacae maps have many 2 range, high avoid enemies and bows are the most accurate and most damaging weapon type overall. The game also has a ton of wyverns and wyvern lords, sometimes who have higher stats than other enemy types(like chapter 7). The archers are still bad because of their bases, but the snupers and nomads have their uses.

I agree on 10 though, bows might be even worse here than usual because they lost wyvern effectiveness and pegasus knights are rare. Shinon;s high bases make him useful at first, but he falls into mediocrity later due to poor EP combat. The bow lock holds him back while providing only limited utility in return.

[Radiant head]

Shinon only gets better once he gets 3-range and Deadeye. Hell even Rolf can turn out amazing if you bother training him.