Beelzebub Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 It sets the tone. I can't imagine a game like Genealogy including such features. To be honest, though, I don't really 'get' Japanese media fanservice. To me, it comes across as tacky and immature, but maybe there's some cultural difference that I don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 "It's optional" is never a legitimate defense. Imagine the game had optional hardcore gore (real life, not graphic gore). Would that be ok? No. you sound like you think realistic gore would be a universally bad thing, this is a series where you are at war, and you are stabbing people with bladed weapons which also has permadeath. I guess it would be hard to implement as bleeding like a struck pig with every 1 damage attack breaks belief, but i don't see how blood would be universally bad. I mean i dislike the amount of violence and gore in games these days, but that is more the people who play it and those who let 3 year-olds play them, and those games that treat violence as a good thing. But gore doesn't = bad. Permadeath also helps the gravity of it, maybe make casual mode lock the gore feature to off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krovarion Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I don't really like it, but the fanservice won't bother me if it's REALLY optional. Camilla v-neck ? Not a big deal.Incest ? No one (should) cares. Hotspring ? Well, that's a HUGE anime cliché, but you don't HAVE to go in. I think it's up to you if you want to build the hot spring or not, so whatever. What really scares me is the face rubbing... I read that it gives some stats bonus. If it's true, it bothers me, because it's not really optional anymore... If you do not do it, you will have a disadvantage upon someone you do. Quite unfair for those who aren't attracted by that sort of fanservice. (Sorry for my bad english, I'm french) Edited June 26, 2015 by Krovarion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Comparing face rubbing with gore is a bit too extreme. There is a distinguishable difference between stroking someone's cheek and ripping someone's throat out. They are completely different things. But it's optional. Do you need why that defense is bullshit? Because arbitrary lines are being drawn. It falls apart very quickly. you sound like you think realistic gore would be a universally bad thing, this is a series where you are at war, and you are stabbing people with bladed weapons which also has permadeath. I guess it would be hard to implement as bleeding like a struck pig with every 1 damage attack breaks belief, but i don't see how blood would be universally bad. I mean i dislike the amount of violence and gore in games these days, but that is more the people who play it and those who let 3 year-olds play them, and those games that treat violence as a good thing. But gore doesn't = bad. Permadeath also helps the gravity of it, maybe make casual mode lock the gore feature to off. --> The point --> Your head Whether or not it's bad has nothing to do with it. Tasteless optional content doesn't stop being tasteless, nor is it's existence excused on the basis of it being optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) ^^ no problem on the english. But for the face rubbing i believe it just raises supports with your avatar, so not really that much of an advantage. Edited June 26, 2015 by goodperson707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krovarion Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Thanks ! Oh ! If it's the case, then no problem. As long as they don't rub the fanservice in our faces (Haha, rub in our faces... No ?) and it's really up to the player to choose, then it shouldn't even make such a fuss. I think the problem is the fact that there is a LOT of articles about the fanservice in this game in videogame press, so it's kinda "scary" for someone who do not like it. But hey, as long as it stay bonus content, it's all good. Edited June 26, 2015 by Krovarion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetiger39 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Coming from someone with a Skyrim/Fallout modding backround no. If Fire Emblem was on PC, it would be much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Thanks ! Oh ! If it's the case, then no problem. As long as they don't rub the fanservice in our faces (Haha, rub in our faces... No ?) and it's really up to the player to choose, then it shouldn't even make such a fuss. I think the problem is the fact that there is a LOT of articles about the fanservice in this game in videogame press, so it's kinda "scary" for someone who do not like it. But hey, as long as it stay bonus content, it's all good. ^ yah fan-service seems to have a bad reputation, but i agree as long as they don't rub it in our faces. (i get it!!!) one of the problems I find is that some people seem to believe the very existence of (obvious) fan-service is rubbing it in our faces, or that the amount of optional fan service makes a difference. Edited June 26, 2015 by goodperson707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickster Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 From what I've heard and seen how people react it seems like while there is some fan service the game doesn't detract anything from story or gameplay. Fire Emblem might have some new hobbies but it's still the same person at heart. Also why do people keep citing the shared bathes as inherently Japanese when the Romans did it first and were used in western societies all the way up to the 19th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Because Nintendo is stationed in Japan, and makes games for the world, including modern-day Japanese people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) The only thing that bothers me is the lack of female characters in Nohr that I find attractive enough to want to make babies with. Seriously, Awakening has far more waifus than Fates does. Edited June 26, 2015 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 From what I've heard and seen how people react it seems like while there is some fan service the game doesn't detract anything from story or gameplay. Fire Emblem might have some new hobbies but it's still the same person at heart. Also why do people keep citing the shared bathes as inherently Japanese when the Romans did it first and were used in western societies all the way up to the 19th century. Yeah bathhouses are hardly a Japanese exclusive idea. As you said it has European basis , plus i believe many native American cultures had similar concepts as well, i don't know much about African and other Asian cultures though. It is pretty easy to see how the concept would come about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 I seriously have to doubt the heterosexuality of any guy who doesn't find Camilla attractive. Camilla is everything you could want in a girl. Great body, great face and hair, great personality, kicks ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgetruman Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I seriously have to doubt the heterosexuality of any guy who doesn't find Camilla attractive. Camilla is everything you could want in a girl. Great body, great face and hair, great personality, kicks ass. She does dress like a goofball though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynsanity Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 But it's optional. Do you need why that defense is bullshit? Because arbitrary lines are being drawn. It falls apart very quickly. The lines really aren't that arbitrary. Pixelated face-rubs and pg-13 lewdness aren't harmful or objectionable to the extent that real-life gore would be, for obvious reasons. I'm open to tone arguments about how the potential for all the characters to fall in love with the avatar hurts their overall characterization. But these ad-absurdum arguments don't get us anywhere. "But what if there was an OPTION for your 3ds to COME TO LIFE and KILL YOUR DAD" Like you're comparing something either impossible or entirely against the goal of videogames to something that's a pretty linear progression of FE's focus on relationships and immersion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilla Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 She does dress like a goofball though! The best girls tend to have their own unique sense of fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) From what I've heard and seen how people react it seems like while there is some fan service the game doesn't detract anything from story or gameplay. Fire Emblem might have some new hobbies but it's still the same person at heart. "The same person at heart"? To borrow a quite from Star Trek, except for it's features, there is nothing about it that I find familiar. We went from mass burnings being treated as horrifying and cruel, royals who were willing to sacrifice those closest to them to protect their people and a cast who fought for the sake of saving all those people in the world whose names we don't know... to a cast who happily commits such mass burning and pat each other on their back for their cruelty and "heroes" who would be happily willing to doom the entire world for the sake of one person, even depriving their own children of their future, without as much as acknowledging the existence of a moral dilemma. Also, they are all sociopathic and sadistic butchers. I wish that we go back to stories about actual heroes instead of continuing to having them about an self-absorbed douchebag who has an entire world serving his every whim. Or at least make the game also inclusive for the people who are actually horrified by the prospect of suddenly finding themselves with the blood of hundredths of thousands of people at their hands while listening to their dying screams and smelling their burning flesh. Edited June 26, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom037 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The lines really aren't that arbitrary. Pixelated face-rubs and pg-13 lewdness aren't harmful or objectionable to the extent that real-life gore would be, for obvious reasons. I'm open to tone arguments about how the potential for all the characters to fall in love with the avatar hurts their overall characterization. But these ad-absurdum arguments don't get us anywhere. "But what if there was an OPTION for your 3ds to COME TO LIFE and KILL YOUR DAD" Like you're comparing something either impossible or entirely against the goal of videogames to something that's a pretty linear progression of FE's focus on relationships and immersion. to borrow from someone else on this thread: the point your head making a game mechanic optional doesn't free it from criticism, and many (including myself) find the face rubbing and undressing creepy and objectionable, just as others would find excessive gore to be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topazd Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Well, the lines between optional and mandatory are most certainly arbitrary with this particular game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynsanity Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 to borrow from someone else on this thread: the point your head making a game mechanic optional doesn't free it from criticism, and many (including myself) find the face rubbing and undressing creepy and objectionable, just as others would find excessive gore to be so. I'm sorry people don't always stop to articulate this, but "it's optional" doesn't mean "I would never criticize an optional feature," it means "this feature is not objectionable enough for it to impact my playthrough, when I can easily enjoy the game w/o interacting with that content." It's pointless to respond to that with "but what about this other thing that would be 50x worse than Fates' content?" Obviously the reception to that would be different. Unless you actually think, to reference the argument I was responding to, photographic gore is equally problematic to what we're seeing from Fates. I would assert it's much worse, but I guess I don't speak for everyone. Well, the lines between optional and mandatory are most certainly arbitrary with this particular game. How do you mean? Going to My Castle, then going to My Room, then selecting Invite someone seems to fall pretty safely on the optional side of wherever that line is. So does marrying certain characters and playing dress-up. We went from mass burnings being treated as horrifying and cruel, royals who were willing to sacrifice those closest to them to protect their people and a cast who fought for the sake of saving all those people in the world whose names we don't know... to a cast who happily commits such mass burning and pat each other on their back for their cruelty and "heroes" who would be happily willing to doom the entire world for the sake of one person, even depriving their own children of their future, without as much as acknowledging the existence of a moral dilemma. Also, they are all sociopathic and sadistic butchers. I wish that we go back to stories about actual heroes instead of continuing to having them about an self-absorbed douchebag who has an entire world serving his every whim. Or at least make the game also inclusive for the people who are actually horrified by the prospect of suddenly finding themselves with the blood of hundredths of thousands of people at their hands while listening to their dying screams and smelling their burning flesh. Sorry, does this involve a story spoiler? I have no idea what it's referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) How do you mean? Going to My Castle, then going to My Room, then selecting Invite someone seems to fall pretty safely on the optional side of wherever that line is. So does marrying certain characters and playing dress-up. Ah the stick your head in the sand approach. What you fail to recognise is that the cat is out of the bag already. The mere knowledge of it's existance is bothersome to people because of it's greater ramifications on people's impressions of the game as a whole. You may as well tell people to just pretend that some parts of a story didn't actually happen, or that a character within a story doesn't exist - you have to go through some serious mental gymnastics to just ignore things you know happen to be the case. Edited June 26, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Sorry, does this involve a story spoiler? I have no idea what it's referring to. Fire Emblem Awakening. Chapter 14: Flames on the Blue. Anyway, I definitely shouldn't have engaged that statement with such ferocity. I am sorry for that. Edited June 26, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm fine with everything BAR THE INCEST. Luckily, incest is optional (I hope). What do I answer in the poll?? This is essentially my thinking. The designs I have no problem with. The hot springs I have no issue with, because then I'd be taking issue with a lot of other Japanese games which I don't have issues with. Even the face-rubbing thing is hilarious to me, though I'm never touching that feature. The incest was where I drew the fuckin' line on me even touching the game, until the gay marriages were revealed and I got a huge amount of bias towards Joker. So, I'm not sure what to answer here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 This is essentially my thinking. The designs I have no problem with. The hot springs I have no issue with, because then I'd be taking issue with a lot of other Japanese games which I don't have issues with. Even the face-rubbing thing is hilarious to me, though I'm never touching that feature. The incest was where I drew the fuckin' line on me even touching the game, until the gay marriages were revealed and I got a huge amount of bias towards Joker. So, I'm not sure what to answer here. You do not need to ever romance the royal characters on either route. And unfortunately, Joker is feKamui exclusive. But you do get a couple of same sex options at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm aware on both counts, and I'm also aware of the plot development that softened the incest. However, speaking as someone with plenty of siblings of all sorts on both sides on my family, the fact that it was as prominent as it was put me off a hell of a lot. And I'm aware, which is why I'll be running a FeMU path at the same time as my MaMU run to have Joker and Zero married. But my point still stands, in that everything else is fine enough. I've seen a hell of a lot worse, at any rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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