Unit Optimization Thread

[Bovinian]

I just realized something that took me way too long to figure out - if you give a unit one of the items that turn them into a special class (e.g. Dread Fighter, Dark Falcon), isn't that a free ticket to 40 promoted levels without having to use any Eternal Seals?

[Dämonplay]

I just realized something that took me way too long to figure out - if you give a unit one of the items that turn them into a special class (e.g. Dread Fighter, Dark Falcon), isn't that a free ticket to 40 promoted levels without having to use any Eternal Seals?

yes you are just stick with theit skills

[astrophys]

Would Open Assault be good for flying units?

[Leif]

I found that...

[spoiler=Third Route Pairing Spoiler?]Zero x Setsuna

...produces an amazing Epionne. She get a +7 speed bonus, making her the fastest unit in the game (minus marrying this Epionne to a +Speed Avatar to get a +11 speed Kanna).

Her modifiers are as follows:

Strength: -1

Magic: +1

Skill: +1

Speed: +7

Luck: 0

Defense: 0

Resistance: +1

Total: +9!!!

Plus, she gets the Bowman, Outlaw, and Dark Mage class trees from her parents

I don't know if she can get an A+ support and a S support, AND use both the Buddy seal and Marriage Seal. Should that be the case, she will get access to other amazing class branches, like Samurai, Lancer, or Spell Caster.

She can become an amazing Holy Bowman since these would be her Max Stats:

HP: 55

Strength: 30

Magic: 26

Skill: 36

Speed: 40!!!

Luck: 30

Defense: 31

Resistance: 29

The only bad thing about this pairing is Epionne's awful hair color... -_-

EDIT: GAHHHH can't do math apparently...

Edited July 6, 2015 by Leif

[astrophys]

^ Your numbers add up to +9, not +10. 10 points in gains, 1 point in losses. The only character I know of so far (unless I've overlooked someone) who has more than +1 mod totals before the 2nd gen is Kamui/Corrin, who gets +3. The others are +0 or +1. +1+1+7 (+1 in each of 7 stats) is +9.

Still, yes, that's an amazing speed stat.

Changing the topic:

If I want to play on the Hoshido route [i will be getting all three routes, that said, just in 2016 when they're all localized] and want my avatar to marry Hinoka!Matoi on that route, what class do you think I should give Kamui/Corrin/the Avatar as a good choice for him and for passing onto his wife (Hinoka!Matoi) and their daughter (Kanna)?

Corrin's intrinsic class set would be Nohr Prince (Noble Lineage, Dragon Fang), White Blood (Draconic Shield, Hoshido), and his secondary class, to be determined.

He could also access Pegasus Warrior via marriage seal with Matoi, which at the promoted level he has a common weapon rank with via staves in Falcon Warrior & White Blood. This gives him Pegasus Warrior (Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart), Falcon Warrior (Rally Speed, Mirror Strike), and Golden Kite Warrior (Soar, Sun God).

Hinoka!Matoi has Pegasus Warrior, Lance Fighter, and Samurai as her base classes. She gets the weapon faires for both lances and for swords, as well as two proc (Breaking Sky, Astra) and three strikes (Swallow, Flowing, Mirror).

Whatever I chose for the Avatar's secondary class becomes something that Hinoka!Matoi can use via marriage seal,as well as being the Avatar's own options.

And Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna would have a promoted class set of White Blood, the two options of the Avatar's secondary, and Falcon Warrior/Golden Kite Warrior.

What class do you think I should choose? What are your reasons?

[Leif]

^ Your numbers add up to +9, not +10. 10 points in gains, 1 point in losses. The only character I know of so far (unless I've overlooked someone) who has more than +1 mod totals before the 2nd gen is Kamui/Corrin, who gets +3. The others are +0 or +1. +1+1+7 (+1 in each of 7 stats) is +9.

Still, yes, that's an amazing speed stat.

ARGH. Thanks. I can't believe I didn't catch that. @_@

Yes, Corrin will always have +3 total stat mods. He/she is similar to Robin that way.

For your Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna class... I'd choose the class that best highlights whatever Kanna's highest stat is.

For example, my Epionne set would benefit from the Trueblade since 35+7 = 42 speed. This way, she could use the S-ranked sword and have no problem doubling most enemies. I think the class you choose should fit into the role you want Kanna to have. Since there are 5 units to use in PvP, I bet the most functional team setup would look something like this:

-Three or four pure offensive units and one or two support units.

Support would most likely be a staff user, i.e. a Butler/Maid, or White Blood who has Rally Skills. Staves, like the Draw Staff, are going to be incredibly useful. Also Rally Movement, Speed and Spectrum will be incredible too.

Also, I think the PvP metagame will involve mostly high damage sets, considering the sheer number of class and personal skills that add numerical damage.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Leif

[astrophys]

I'm personally not really that interested in doing PvP, but I may do the DLCs if/when they come out.

Anyways, Hinoka!Matoi naturally leans towards Defense, Resistance, and Skill, and also has points in Strength (+3, +2, +2, +1, for +8 points total).

[AstraSage]

I'm trying to figure out how to make siegbert decent so I've been messing around with Belka!Siegbert. We know that Hinoka!Matoi ends up passing down the Lancer class to Matoi because of the overlapping pegasus knight, but would Siegbert inherit Fighter through Belka!Siegbert because of the overlap of wyvern rider despite it being a secondary?

Yes, Belka!Siegbert is going to inherit the Fighter Class Tree from his mother.

One Important Thing to know in this case is the fact Siegbert is also going to straight up inherit his Father's +2 bonus to Strength and his Mother's +2 bonus to Skill at the cost of also inheriting the Former's -2 Penalty to Resistance and the Latter's -2 Penalty to Speed.

The Other Important Thing is his +4 Bonus to Defense, which would make him a fun Great Knight if you ignore the fact he might probably be as fast as a General and Magical Attacks are gonna be his Achilles' Heel; Thankfully, the former issue can be fixed for Belka!Siegbert by exploiting the fact he can actually A+-rank Ignis for the Actual General Class' Defensive Formation Skill and the latter issue can be softened by inheriting Aegis from his Father and maybe (if you're willing to do an awkward reclassing at the Lv. 15+ Mark) getting Tomebreaker by A+-ranking Foleo instead of Ignis (or buying it from Lexington's Butler Island so you don't lose the access to a General's Class Skills).

Edited July 7, 2015 by AstraSage

[astrophys]

Who are the A+ rank options for the various Hoshidan/neutral children?

[HeoandReo]

I'm doing a little bit of theorycrafting and screwing around with pairings in preparation for when this game comes out in NA. I'm trying to focus on getting a bunch of units with really high speed, mostly because speed has always been the god stat. I'm looking to optimize Breaking Sky, but also Swallow Strike - since it increases the doubling threshold by 5, it should functionally give the same speed increase on player phase. (unless I'm horribly wrong about this. I don't think the doubling threshold has changed from Awakening.) Extravagance is another skill that's on my radar - assuming the description is correct, you could do a ton of damage if you're willing to get enough gold coins to do so consistently.

I did see a build earlier that hit 40 speed, but there should be a few that can hit higher, mostly because of other class options. (I'm not taking tonics/emblems into account yet)

Fox Spirit also looks like a good class for speed. If Beaststone+ gives +6, then Setsuna/Azura!Kinu could hit 46 speed when transformed. My current theory build has +Spe/-Lck Avatar with Oni Savage disposition paired with Azura!Kinu, so if the calcs are right, here is what I have.

Azura!Kinu: 2/1/-1/6/2/-4/3 (Married to Avatar, A+ Midoriko)

Kinu!Kanna: 1/0/1/10/1/-4/3 (Married to Shinonome, A+ Mitama)

Kanna hits 50 in this case as a Nine-Tailed Fox. (34 base + 10 mods + 6 Beaststone) I am also pretty sure that both Kinu and Kanna can get Swallow Strike, giving a functional 51 and 55 speed on player phase. 51 speed is just enough to double the fastest non Fox Spirit units. 11 speed Kanna as Elite Ninja/Trueblade gets to 46. Other options that I have so far for them are Counter/Magic Counter,(Avatar Marriage Seal and Azura/A+ Mitama) Breaking Sky,(from Nishiki or marrying Shinonome) and Extravagance.(A+ Midoriko, Kanna inherits)

Midoriko is another unit I think has lots of potential. Just giving Setsuna to her you get this:

Setsuna!Midoriko: -1/1/4/7/-2/-1/1 (Married to Lutz, A+ Kinu)

As an Elite Ninja, she hits 42 speed iirc.(47 Swallow Strike) If Setsuna has an A+ with Hinoka. I think she might be able to get Breaking Sky via Kinu, assuming that Spellcaster is what she will get from using a Buddy Seal. 42 speed is also important since she just misses the cutoff for getting doubled by non Swallow Strike Azura/Setsuna!Kinu.

I currently have Eponine being mothered by Oboro. I could have picked a few other moms but compared to the others Oboro just gives her so much. Lance Fighter/Spellcaster looks like it will be the new class to have, since it has Breaking Sky, a faire for both base class options and Basara has great caps. Oboro can also pass Extravagance from her Herb Merchant line, and she doesn't miss out on Swallow Strike since Zero can A+ Tsubaki or she can A+ Matoi herself. I gave Gurei to her so that she could have Ninja access, but she does look pretty competent otherwise.

Oboro!Eponine: 0/0/1/5/0/2/1 (Married to Gurei, A+ Velour) (this is assuming Zero A+ Tsubaki and passes Swallow Strike)

Mozume also looks very promising as a mom, unlike her Awakening counterpart. Her stats are great given how mods have changed in this game. Villager's promotion options are both pretty good - Weapons Master is a solid balanced class and Great Merchant has Extravagance. Currently I have her mothering Matoi, mostly because I'm not exactly sure where else to put her and Matoi does turn out pretty solid. (0/1/4/0/1/4/-2, if you're wondering)

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[astrophys]

One of my frustrations with Matoi is that she gets that -2 SPD mod from her dad, which mean's she's basically doomed to be a fairly slow unit in most cases… the highest modifier that she can hit outside Avatar parentage is a +3 speed modifier, from a mother like Azura.

Azura!Matoi: +0 Str, +1 Mag, +4 Skl, +2 Spd, +0 Lck, +1 Def, +0 Res

In fairness, Azura has extremely high total growths… 310% total combined between all the 8 growths… Azura 25 50 25 60 60 40 15 35

Of course, being a Falcon!Warrior or Trueblade, this might not necessarily be a huge problem, as those are already 34 or 35 speed before modifiers and she has Swallow strike…. So she shouldn't have a big problem doubling enemies… at least, not until the inevitable DLC comes that probably has really fast enemies, Apotheosis style.

I'm also struggling this because due to preferences for redheads and Cordelia's character from Awakening, I'm really trying to optimize under the constraint of a Hinoka or Luna Matoi [in the sense that I know its not optimal, but want to try to do the best that I can with that limitation[…. except its really not necessarily optimal to be defensive and not have a high defense mod… unless of course the meta of this game ends up much different from Awakening…. so I'm struggling to come up with a way to best use them

[HeoandReo]

One of my frustrations with Matoi is that she gets that -2 SPD mod from her dad, which mean's she's basically doomed to be a fairly slow unit in most cases… the highest modifier that she can hit outside Avatar parentage is a +3 speed modifier, from a mother like Azura.

Azura!Matoi: +0 Str, +1 Mag, +4 Skl, +2 Spd, +0 Lck, +1 Def, +0 Res

In fairness, Azura has extremely high total growths… 310% total combined between all the 8 growths… Azura 25 50 25 60 60 40 15 35

Of course, being a Falcon!Warrior or Trueblade, this might not necessarily be a huge problem, as those are already 34 or 35 speed before modifiers and she has Swallow strike…. So she shouldn't have a big problem doubling enemies… at least, not until the inevitable DLC comes that probably has really fast enemies, Apotheosis style.

I'm also struggling this because due to preferences for redheads and Cordelia's character from Awakening, I'm really trying to optimize under the constraint of a Hinoka or Luna Matoi [in the sense that I know its not optimal, but want to try to do the best that I can with that limitation[…. except its really not necessarily optimal to be defensive and not have a high defense mod… unless of course the meta of this game ends up much different from Awakening…. so I'm struggling to come up with a way to best use them

I think this a problem with literally half of the Hoshido parents. Saizou, Takumi and Hinata also have a -2 speed modifier, and the most that the mothers are really able to do is break even with speed or just get a small boost. And a good chunk of the mothers have low speed too. (Kagerou has -1, Orochi has -2) Hisame's personal skill makes up for it at least, and he can get Swallow Strike from an A+ with Shigure but the others are kind of stuck. I do think that Matoi is at least in a better situation than Gurei and Kisaragi though thanks to natural Pegasus. (Hoo boy Kisaragi's situation is completely unenviable in my eyes. Holy Bowman is his highest speed option and it's still low compared to Trueblade/Elite Ninja, he cannot get Defensive Formation without Avatar/Logbook and his Swallow Strike options are extremely limited since he's competing with loads of kids for those opportunities)

Defensive Formation could help a bit to offset that issue. Defensive Formation I can see as being a really useful skill particularly for support units or lower speed units to avoid getting killed. The only downside is that Knight distribution is really poor and I think General is the only way to get that skill. (Benoit, Effie, Ignis, and anyone who A+ with them or marries them) I'm considering doing Orochi!Gurei with an A+ with Ignis - since his speed will be relatively low no matter what I do, it'd be better to have him as a unit who can hit hard once and not get doubled in return.

---

Out of the two Matois you're suggesting, that's going to depend on who she will be marrying and who she will support with. Hinoka passes Lance Fighter for Breaking Sky but Matoi can actually get Breaking Sky by herself from an A+ with Shara(Spellcaster), so if you're going to do that there's no pressure to give Hinoka to her. Shara looks far and away to be her most useful A+. Kinu doesn't need it, Mitama can get Breaking Sky in lots of other ways so that only leaves Ophelia as relatively stiff competition for it. Marrying Shinonome will give the same effect.

She can also marry Ignis to take fuller advantage of those defensive mods and to get Defensive Formation. You might be able to do something silly like this in third route:

General Hinoka!Matoi (Marries Ignis, A+ Mitama)

0/0/2/0/0/3/2 (38/25/34/25/32/43/32)

Defensive Formation/Breaking Sky/Lancefaire/Magic Counter/Luna or Confined Defense or Renewal or Speed Seal

Out of the two I am leaning towards Hinoka in a vacuum, but Luna works too again depending on who she supports/marries as well as who else wants Hinoka.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[astrophys]

Shara could still be useful for bestowing Tomefaire if Matoi was taken into the Dark Falcon DLC class…

Interesting….

I was actually (due to personal preference bias) planning to have my character marry Matoi, but those are some very interesting options you've outlined in case I decide to marry someone else instead, as well as for anyone who is concerned with using her as unit with those mothers without that restriction (letting her marry others).

In the case of General Matoi, she basically sacrifices her prodigy damage against most physical units (except Berserkers), but she retains it against pretty much all dedicated magic users (oh, and she actually has +1 as a strength mod… Hinoka has +1, Subaki has -1, and then the child bonus of +1). So that's 39 strength as a generally.

Interesting points about all the other children and how you can deal with their speed problems…. maybe the Avatar running knight might have merit for propagating defensive formation better.

[Leif]

Man, Charlotte!Velour is crazy. Charlotte is the last person I would want to pair with any one, but for PvP's sake...

Her mods are as follows:

[spoiler=Charlotte!Velour]

Strength: +7 (!!!)

Magic: +1

Skill: -1

Speed: +2

Luck: +1

Defense: +1

Resistance: -2

Total = +9

Don't worry, my math is right now, haha. This build makes Velour have the highest strength out of the children (barring Kanna again).

To optimize her high strength, I'd put her as a Berserker.

Her mods will be:

HP: 70

Strength: 47 (!!!!)

Magic: 26

Skill: 31

Speed: 35

Luck: 26

Defense: 28

Resistance: 23 (yikes)

Aside from the bad Resistance and Luck stats, a 47 strength Berserker is crazy. I think her class options suck though, I believe she will only get the Garou, Fighter, and Rod Knight lines? Not very good classes. She'd have to buddy and marry units with better class options.

There's also Effie who would gives her the same strength bonus, but also gives her access to Luna from the Great Knight class, which would be amazing with such high offense.

[spoiler=Effie!Velour]

Strength: +7 (!!!)

Magic: +1

Skill: -2 (yikes)

Speed: +1

Luck: +1

Defense: +2

Resistance: -1

Total: +9

This pairing is interesting, because a terrifying Effie!Velour!Berserker set could look something like this:

Personal Skill: Scavenge

Skill 1: Luna

Skill 2: Four Fangs

Skill 3: Flamboyant

Skill 4: Axefaire

Skill 5: Swallow Strike

She'd have to Marry Ryoma's son and Buddy with Matoi for these skills.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Leif

[AstraSage]

Interesting points about all the other children and how you can deal with their speed problems…. maybe the Avatar running knight might have merit for propagating defensive formation better.

Specially if you run a Male Kamui in a Hoshido Playthrough: That way Mitama, Kinu and Midoriko can get the Knight Class Tree by A+-Ranking Kanna, as well as someone like Kisaragi can do the same by marrying her.

Edited July 7, 2015 by AstraSage

[HeoandReo]

There's also Effie who would gives her the same strength bonus, but also gives her access to Luna from the Great Knight class, which would be amazing with such high offense.

[spoiler=Effie!Velour]

Strength: +7 (!!!)

Magic: +1

Skill: -2 (yikes)

Speed: +1

Luck: +1

Defense: +2

Resistance: -1

Total: +9

This pairing is interesting, because a terrifying Effie!Velour!Berserker set could look something like this:

Personal Skill: Scavenge

Skill 1: Luna

Skill 2: Four Fangs

Skill 3: Flamboyant

Skill 4: Axefaire

Skill 5: Swallow Strike

She'd have to Marry Ryoma's son and Buddy with Matoi for these skills.

I'm actually considering Effie!Velour over Charlotte!Velour for a few reasons. One, because Siegbert kinda wants Charlotte too, and two, Effie actually has a few notable skills over Charlotte for Velour to inherit. Just for comparison, here's a few notable skills that each mother can get through A+ supports.

Charlotte: Counter, Ogre Strike, Lancebreaker(Rinkah), Open Assault, Aegis, Luna, Diamond Strike(Pieri), Swordbreaker, Deadly Breath, Overbearing(Belka)

Effie: Vantage, Swordfaire, Strength Seal, Line of Death(Hana), Demoiselle, Battle Command, Tomebreaker(Elise), Aptitude, Underdog, Strength Seal, Line of Death, Extravagance(Mozume)

Both: Bind, Bowbreaker, Lifetaker(Nyx)

Velour can also inherit Luna from Flannel A+ Benoit.

For Effie!Velour I'm thinking about something like this. Again, this is under the assumption that for Buddy Seals and special classes, the secondary class is given as an option.

-Swallow Strike (Marries Shigure)

-Breaking Sky (Flannel A+ with Nishiki)

-Extravagance (Effie A+ with Mozume)

-Axefaire

-Odd Fang

---

Just to give reference since I'm posting a bit, here's what I've come up with so far for my pairings. I am working with a few unfounded assumptions (Buddy Seal + secondary class, only one character can be A+ by a unit) so they're subject to change as I hear of more or less restrictions.

Azura!Kinu/Avatar (+Spe/-Lck, Oni Savage) (Kinu A+ Midoriko)

*Kinu inherits Magic Counter from Azura A+ Sakura (Priestess)

Kinu's class set is Fox Spirit, Spellcaster, Pegasus Knight, Oni Savage and Herb Merchant (High speed Fox Spirit)

Nishiki!Shigure/Effie!Velour (Shigure A+ Hisame, Velour A+ Kanna)

*Velour inherits Extravagance from Effie A+ Mozume unless I give it to Shara

*I have absolutely no clue how Shigure's inheritance is going to work. Can he get a non-singing Songstress skill like how Inigo could get Luck+4 from Olivia?

Shigure's class set is Pegasus Knight, Rod Knight, Spellcaster, Fighter?(not sure of this) and Samurai (Magic support or mixed offense)

Velour's class set is Garou, Fighter, Knight, Pegasus Knight and Oni Savage (Physical beatstick)

Kinu!Kanna/Camilla!Shinonome (Kanna A+ Mitama, Shinonome A+ Gurei)

*Not quite set on Kanna's inheritance from Avatar yet, but she will get Extravagance from Kinu

*Shinonome inherits Swallow Strike from Ryoma's Pegasus Knight, not sure what to pass from Camilla

Kanna's class set is Dark Princess, Oni Savage, Fox Spirit,(I think) Lance Fighter and Priestess (High speed Fox Spirit)

Shinonome's class set is Lance Fighter, Samurai, Wyvern Knight, Ninja, and maybe Oni Savage? Whatever I think he's Brady 2.0 in unscrewability

Luna!Lutz/Setsuna!Midoriko (Lutz A+ Deere, Midoriko A+ Kinu)

*Lutz inherits Swallow Strike from Luna and Luna from Arthur and this is confusing to read isn't it

*Midoriko inherits Swallow Strike from Setsuna A+ Hinoka and maybe Swordfaire from Kaze's Samurai

Lutz' class set is Wyvern, Fighter, Mercenary, Rod Knight and Herb Merchant (No Breaking Sky but Extravagance makes up for it a bit)

Midoriko's class set is Herb Merchant, Ninja, Bowman, Wyvern and Spellcaster(I think) (Fast utility unit)

Oboro!Eponine/Orochi!Gurei (Eponine A+ Velour, Gurei A+ Ignis)

*Eponine inherits Swallow Strike from Zero A+ Tsubaki and Extravagance from Oboro's Herb Merchant

*Gurei inherits Extravagance from Orochi's Herb Merchant

Eponine's class set is Outlaw, Dark Mage, Lance Fighter, Fighter(I think) and Ninja (Fast utility unit with possible Berserker option)

Gurei's class set is Ninja, Samurai, Spellcaster, Outlaw and Knight (Hits things hard once)

Charlotte!Siegbert/Mozume!Matoi (Siegbert A+ Shinonome, Matoi A+ Eponine)

*Siegbert inherits Copycat from Xander A+ Kaze and probably inherit an Oni Savage skill like Ogre Strike or Counter because I really want a high crit Charlotte

*Matoi inherits Breaking Sky from Mozume A+ Oboro

Siegbert's class set is Cavalier, Wyvern, Fighter, Pegasus Knight and Lance Fighter (General physical offense)

Matoi's class set is Pegasus Knight, Samurai, Villager, Cavalier and Outlaw (General physical offense, slightly lesser than Siegbert but still holds up)

Sakura!Foleo/Nyx!Shara (Foleo A+ Siegbert, Shara A+ Matoi)

*Shara inherits Extravagance from Nyx A+ Mozume unless I give it to Velour

Foleo's class set is Rod Knight, Dark Mage, Priest, Spellcaster and Cavalier (Magic dude)

Shara's class set is Spellcaster, Oni Savage, Dark Mage, Rod Knight and Pegasus Knight (Magic lady)

Rinkah!Hisame/Hinoka!Mitama (Hisame A+ Shigure, Mitama A+ Soleil)

*Hisame inherits Breaking Sky from Rinkah A+ Orochi

*Mitama inherits Breaking Sky from Hinoka and Axefaire from Asama A+ Arthur

Hisame's class set is Samurai, Oni Savage, Ninja, Priest and Pegasus Knight (Physical/mixed offense)

Mitama's class set is Priestess, Herb Merchant, Pegasus Knight, Samurai and Mercenary (High offensive abilities. Somewhat restricted by class compared to others but should be fine.)

Belka!Ignis/Elise!Ophelia (Ignis A+ Foleo, Ophelia A+ Shara)

*Ignis could inherit Breaking Sky from Benoit A+ Tsukuyomi. Undecided on this though.

*Ophelia inherits Swallow Strike from Elise A+ Aqua(I think)

Ignis' class set is Knight, Fighter, Wyvern, Dark Mage and Rod Knight (The least harmful use of Belka's -2 speed modifier)

Ophelia's class set is Dark Mage, Samurai, Rod Knight, Knight and Spellcaster (Another magic lady who can work with lower speed)

Felicia!Kisaragi/Kagerou!Sophie (can't think of any notable A+)

*Sophie inherits Breaking Sky from Kagerou's Spellcaster

Kisaragi's class set is Bowman, Lance Fighter, Rod Knight and Cavalier (It's a Kisaragi)

Sophie's class set is Cavalier, Mercenary, Ninja and Bowman (It's a Sophie. I did these two second last so I literally just threw people together.)

Hana!Deere/Pieri!Soleil (Deere A+ Lutz, Soleil A+ Ophelia)

*Deere inherits Swallow Strike from Hana A+ Sakura(I think)

*Soleil inherits Axefaire from Pieri A+ Charlottte

Deere's class set is Rod Knight, Cavalier, Samurai, Mercenary and Wyvern (The dodgetank)

Soleil's class set is Mercenary, Ninja, Cavalier, Rod Knight and Dark Mage (I did Soleil last so while not bad she is a little lacking compared to others)

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Bovinian]

Regarding Charlotte!Velour, I'd personally prefer using Charlotte!Deere for super strength berserker purposes.

Mods: Str +6 / Mag -1 / Skl +3 / Spd +3 / Lck 0 / Def -1 / Res -2

He loses to Charlotte!Velour in 1 point of Str, but makes up for it with 1 higher Speed and 4 higher Skill. This is really good for offensive purposes and I don't think he'd be missing out on too many kills. Deere also inherits Cavalier from Jakob so he gets nice things like Luna and Aegis, and can still A+ other children for the remaining skills.

Also I enjoyed the Charlotte x Jakob support

Edit: I suppose it's bad for Charlotte though if she can't get anything out of a Marriage Seal...

Edited July 7, 2015 by Bovinian

[Morgan]

So obviously we can agree Charlotte is one of the best mothers out there for her speed, strength, and class pool. We also agree she'd make a great mother for Siegbert, Velour, and now possibly Deere. Are there any other Charlotte children analysis I missed? (She's a favorite of mine and I want to work out what pairings work and don't work for her)

[TheWerdna]

What happens when a character already has the class of someone they A+ support (either naturally or through marriage)? Do they get said person's secondary class instead?

What happens with marriage? Same deal?

Edited July 7, 2015 by TheWerdna

[HeoandReo]

What happens when a character already has the class of someone they A+ support (either naturally or through marriage)? Do they get said person's secondary class instead?

What happens with marriage? Same deal?

There was a topic I found saying that for the seals, if a unit has access to the A+ support's base class naturally, the Buddy/Marriage Seal will have the same function as a Parallel Seal. (ex. if Belka marries Harold, she can reclass to Fighter through Marriage Seal, rather than Cavalier)

This also means that my plan to get Swallow Strike on Hana!Deere will not work, so back to the drawing board.

So obviously we can agree Charlotte is one of the best mothers out there for her speed, strength, and class pool. We also agree she'd make a great mother for Siegbert, Velour, and now possibly Deere. Are there any other Charlotte children analysis I missed? (She's a favorite of mine and I want to work out what pairings work and don't work for her)

Charlotte!Kinu is another one to consider. Skill is very low but there's not much that can be done about it because of Nishiki's -3 base.

Mods: 5/1/-2/5/2/-3/1

If she goes Berserker, she'd basically be a faster Charlotte!Velour with Breaking Sky.

Charlotte!Sophie is Charlotte!Deere with more magic. In fact Sophie is functionally just a female Deere with Mercenary instead of Rod Knight, more magic capability and arguably better A+ options for both father and child. (Jakob's only useful A+ is Takumi - all of his others give Cav which is redundant)

Mods: 5/1/3/3/0/-1/-2

For reference, Deere's A+ options are Kisaragi/Gurei/Lutz. (Bowman/Ninja/Wyvern)

Sophie's A+ options are Matoi, Soleil and Velour (Pegasus/Nothing/Fighter. Peg and Fighter by themselves give her a strong case though.)

Charlotte!Lutz looks solid too, even if it's mostly for mods. Lutz I think will get Rod Knight from the marriage, so I'm not sure if it's the best for him skillwise, but it could work.

Mods: 5/1/4/3/-2/0/-2

No pairing involving Charlotte really strikes me as bad. Gurei and Ignis get their speed patched up, Charlotte!Soleil wants a proc but there's a few ways she can get it, and Charlotte!Ophelia can do physical or mixed if she really wants to. Charlotte!Foleo is probably her worst, mostly because Leo's mods squander Charlotte's advantages, namely being a physically strong and fast mother with access to Berserker and Hero.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Bovinian]

Charlotte!Sophie is Charlotte!Deere with more magic. In fact Sophie is functionally just a female Deere with Mercenary instead of Rod Knight, more magic capability and arguably better A+ options for both father and child. (Jakob's only useful A+ is Takumi - all of his others give Cav which is redundant)

Mods: 5/1/3/3/0/-1/-2

For reference, Deere's A+ options are Kisaragi/Gurei/Lutz. (Bowman/Ninja/Wyvern)

Sophie's A+ options are Matoi, Soleil and Velour (Pegasus/Nothing/Fighter. Peg and Fighter by themselves give her a strong case though.)

Charlotte!Sophie probably has like a 5% growth in Magic in all of her classes (10% personal, 0% from Charlotte, 5% from Silas, 0% class growths), so magic capability doesn't mean much. Mercenary has Brave Hero overlap with Fighter, and neither it nor Bow Knight has worthwhile skills. And she'd already have Fighter, so the only A+ option she gets from that list is Peg Warrior, which is admittedly nice for Swallow Strike.

In Deere's case, Holy Bowman's Raven Strike is pretty good for Berserker offense, and Ninja gives access to Copycat Puppet which is always nice. Rod Knight tree is kinda meh, but Tomebreaker from Butler and/or Swordbreaker from Wyvern Lord could definitely see use on a Berserker to counter WTD.

[TheWerdna]

There was a topic I found saying that for the seals, if a unit has access to the A+ support's base class naturally, the Buddy/Marriage Seal will have the same function as a Parallel Seal. (ex. if Belka marries Harold, she can reclass to Fighter through Marriage Seal, rather than Cavalier)

This also means that my plan to get Swallow Strike on Hana!Deere will not work, so back to the drawing board.

To be fair, in theory you can get ANY skill on ANY character. The trick is just finding someone who happened to pair Kamui with said character who choose the class you need as their other class and gave them said skills.

[Leif]

There was a topic I found saying that for the seals, if a unit has access to the A+ support's base class naturally, the Buddy/Marriage Seal will have the same function as a Parallel Seal. (ex. if Belka marries Harold, she can reclass to Fighter through Marriage Seal, rather than Cavalier)

This also means that my plan to get Swallow Strike on Hana!Deere will not work, so back to the drawing board.

Charlotte!Kinu is another one to consider. Skill is very low but there's not much that can be done about it because of Nishiki's -3 base.

Mods: 5/1/-2/5/2/-3/1

If she goes Berserker, she'd basically be a faster Charlotte!Velour with Breaking Sky.

Charlotte!Sophie is Charlotte!Deere with more magic. In fact Sophie is functionally just a female Deere with Mercenary instead of Rod Knight, more magic capability and arguably better A+ options for both father and child. (Jakob's only useful A+ is Takumi - all of his others give Cav which is redundant)

Mods: 5/1/3/3/0/-1/-2

For reference, Deere's A+ options are Kisaragi/Gurei/Lutz. (Bowman/Ninja/Wyvern)

Sophie's A+ options are Matoi, Soleil and Velour (Pegasus/Nothing/Fighter. Peg and Fighter by themselves give her a strong case though.)

Charlotte!Lutz looks solid too, even if it's mostly for mods. Lutz I think will get Rod Knight from the marriage, so I'm not sure if it's the best for him skillwise, but it could work.

Mods: 5/1/4/3/-2/0/-2

No pairing involving Charlotte really strikes me as bad. Gurei and Ignis get their speed patched up, Charlotte!Soleil wants a proc but there's a few ways she can get it, and Charlotte!Ophelia can do physical or mixed if she really wants to. Charlotte!Foleo is probably her worst, mostly because Leo's mods squander Charlotte's advantages, namely being a physically strong and fast mother with access to Berserker and Hero.

I wouldn't go with a mixed Ophelia, since PvP classes are most likely going to be ones with S Ranks, like Sorcerers, Berserkers, True Blades, Holy Lancers, etc. I'd say Ophelia is best with a mother that boosts her Magic Stat as much as possible. Nyx and Elise come to mind since they give her +5 magic and a nice speed bonus. Sorcerer is her best magic class because of her high magic stat.

To be fair, in theory you can get ANY skill on ANY character. The trick is just finding someone who happened to pair Kamui with said character who choose the class you need as their other class and gave them said skills.

Yeah, you can Streetpass your own teams (not sure how to do this, but people have said this could be done) and buy skills from characters and smack them on your units. You could have an Odin who married Charlotte and got Ogre Strike, then buy Ogre Strike for your Odin on another file. There's that option of skill inheritance, so I assume it would work on the kids too..

For PvP, the choices are much simpler since you only have 5 units, one of whom has to be your Avatar. So just carefully breed your best 4 Units, one of whom will most definitely be Kanna.

Also, what are the A+ supports for the children? Can all the children A+ each other?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Leif

[HeoandReo]

Charlotte!Sophie probably has like a 5% growth in Magic in all of her classes (10% personal, 0% from Charlotte, 5% from Silas, 0% class growths), so magic capability doesn't mean much. Mercenary has Brave Hero overlap with Fighter, and neither it nor Bow Knight has worthwhile skills. And she'd already have Fighter, so the only A+ option she gets from that list is Peg Warrior, which is admittedly nice for Swallow Strike.

In Deere's case, Holy Bowman's Raven Strike is pretty good for Berserker offense, and Ninja gives access to Copycat Puppet which is always nice. Rod Knight tree is kinda meh, but Tomebreaker from Butler and/or Swordbreaker from Wyvern Lord could definitely see use on a Berserker to counter WTD.

Yeah, when I was listing the A+ supports I was mostly thinking of how it would benefit the characters in general. You're right in saying that Charlotte!Sophie only would really want Matoi as her A+, because of Fighter overlap. There are tons of variables in what each kid is able to get this time around

Sophie could also get access to Copycat from Silas A+ Kaze. Silas A+ options are much better than Jakob's imo, and that's one thing that Sophie can take fuller advantage of.

I'm not quite sure how Logbook skills work, or if they're going to be changed for other releases so I'm not taking it into consideration at this time. If it is how I've heard, then skills might just be a matter of creating a bunch of files to buy skills to fill in the gaps for the final kids.

And Leif, there's a google doc for the A+ supports on the first page. There should be a section that includes all the A+ options in one place, or at least that's what I'm working with.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[TheWerdna]

Wait, I would like to confirm something. How does marriage seals and child inheritance work with the avatar's classes?