Unit Optimization Thread

[Thor Odinson]

This is more shits and giggles than optimization but since it is about unit performance I'll ask it here:

Is there any merit in reclassing Lobster to Blacksmith (through S rank Rinka) and go tankier or should I not bother and stick to Trueblade forever

[astrophys]

Well, he'll get Lancebreaker…

[Azz]

Well, n my opinion, the Oni classes are not the best in terms of end game or meta classes, but they have some decent skills.(Coughshovecough)

[capmalachi]

Well, he'll get Lancebreaker…

You should absolutely reclass lobster in to a blacksmith. The idea that Shinonome specifically chose to use a lance for the advantage over his dad only for it to turn out that he has lancebreaker is far too funny to pass up.

Edited July 13, 2015 by capmalachi

[Thor Odinson]

Speaking of which, though. I'm having trouble figuring out what exactly I want for Rinka, other than taking her for a run through berserker for Axefaire and the highest HP/Str growths (through Mamui or Charlotte, depending on route) as a final class since I feel like if I don't end her in Shura it's a waste for her defense but Shura's not exactly that fast either

Not using Rinka is not an option since she's my favorite character after Lobster, I'm willing to sink literally the entirety of my resources to make her work

You should absolutely reclass lobster in to a blacksmith. The idea that Shinonome specifically chose to use a lance for the advantage over his dad only for it to turn out that he has lancebreaker is far too funny to pass up.

Oh my god

Okay

doing it

Edited July 13, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Azz]

Personally, despite the fact as I said, I am not the fondest of the Oni classes, I would make her a Blacksmith.She gets Swordfaire from Lobster or Axefaire from Charlotte(If this is the third path)and despite the fact it is 1 STR weaker then Shura, it will still be pretty decent.(Or you could go Shura, marry Berserker!Kamui and A+ Orochi for TF and Breaking Sky/Flamboyant)

[Bovinian]

Well, as it turns out I will almost certainly be pairing Zero and Nyx now. The resulting Eponne can get Breaking Sky, Tomefaire, Luna (inherited from Nyx, who would pick it up through A+ing Effie) and two other skills (could use suggestions on this). as that would make her a really strong offensive unit. Also only way to get spellcaster on the nohr route.

Also, someone who has to game, go test Belka x Arthur please.

In keeping with the pattern where the mysterious third class seems to arise from the opposite country, it would be cool if Belka passed down Ninja in this case. It definitely fits her image.

[Morgan]

Did we get confirmation on the passing of Buddy/Marriage seals?

I'm currently looking at what happens with Shigure if he A+ Foleo. Since Shigure always has Rod Knight from Azura, then does nothing occur like some are saying, or does the marriage seal allow for us to get the secondary class (probably from dad which in this case would be Dark Mage). I'm going to assume the dad's class would be passed if marriage seals can still pass the other class

[TheWerdna]

Question, what skills count as battle skills for "Nohr"? Like, does vantage count? What about Swallow Strike? If so, I totally intend to exploit that fact, so I can have both Kamui and Kanna running around with access to Luna, Dragon Claw, Pavise, Aegis, Vantage, and Swallow Strike at the same time via their respective S-supports. Will be grabbing Skill as my asset in this case too.

Ooooh, and on the third route I can give them both Hoshido.

And, oh oh oh oooooh, I can make Kanna an Great Lord with the DLC so she can get aether, thus giving me access to "Aether!Morgan, Destroyer of Worlds 2.0"

[Azz]

I believe it is anything that only has a chance of happening e.g Luna/Astra/Lethality etc...

[Thor Odinson]

Personally, despite the fact as I said, I am not the fondest of the Oni classes, I would make her a Blacksmith.She gets Swordfaire from Lobster or Axefaire from Charlotte(If this is the third path)and despite the fact it is 1 STR weaker then Shura, it will still be pretty decent.(Or you could go Shura, marry Berserker!Kamui and A+ Orochi for TF and Breaking Sky/Flamboyant)

Yeah it's just I feel since Rinka's strength is lacking and won't hit it that cap anyway, I was looking more at tanking potential instead since god knows Hoshido needs someone who can just absorb physical damage, since 38 Def might actually be nice to have around, but Blacksmith does have a higher HP growth and the def isn't bad either

I've already decided she's getting all of my HP boosters (okay maybe saving one for Lobster) anyway

Edited July 13, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[anachronism89]

Well, as it turns out I will almost certainly be pairing Zero and Nyx now. The resulting Eponne can get Breaking Sky, Tomefaire, Luna (inherited from Nyx, who would pick it up through A+ing Effie) and two other skills (could use suggestions on this). as that would make her a really strong offensive unit. Also only way to get spellcaster on the nohr route.

Also, someone who has to game, go test Belka x Arthur please.

I was also very pleasantly surprised about the surprise spellcaster. From my own theorycrafting, it's nearly an ideal inheritance from a mod and skill standpoint, on an otherwise difficulty-to-mother child.

Not sure how useful it is, but I have compiled a hopefully complete list of instances where A+ supports have full class overlap. Maybe somebody better equipped could test them at some point.

Saizou A+ to Kaze

Kaze A+ to Saizou

Tsukuyomi A+ to Nishiki (assuming Nishiki's A+ always passes Spellcaster)

Benoit A+ to Flannel (assuming Flannel's A+ always passes Fighter)

Harold A+ to Flannel (same as Benoit)

[Ebony]

I do have a question. Moms for Matoi... I'm thinking of going Oboro-chan. Good idea or not?

[HeoandReo]

How are Fox Spirits in this game? Are they like Taguels were in Awakening and don't perfrom as well? Or are they much better or viable? I don't know if I should consider Nishiki!Shigure and Azura!Kinu for Fox Spirits

Fox Spirits are pretty easily better than Taguels. Beaststone bonuses aren't as great, but their caps are much better relative to other classes. Strength is a little low, but their speed/skill are on the upper echelons. Lack of braves does hurt as was mentioned earlier, but I do think they have potential on a high speed based team.

They also have a 10 avoid bonus, so they could make solid dodgetanks, since Beaststone+ increases their speed even more.

Azura/Nishiki is definitely considerable though. Both kids get access to Swallow Strike + Breaking Sky naturally from their parents, which can help out their offensive potential. I'm not sure if Shigure gets Fox Spirit from that exchange though.

[Azz]

I do have a question. Moms for Matoi... I'm thinking of going Oboro-chan. Good idea or not?

She gets Lancefaire, Breaking Sky(An amazing proc)and Flamboyant.

So yes Oboro is an awesome mom for her.(And really in general)

The only problem(While not really a problem)Matoi will have a 0 STR mod so yeah.

Here is a suggested set-up.

Matoi@Falon Warrior

Recommend A+ is Sophie

Husband-Really anyone

-Luna(From A+)

-Astra(From Trueblade, her secondary class)

-Flamboyant(From Oboro's Basara)

-Lancefaire(From Oboro's Holy Lancer)

-Aegis(From A+)

Luna and Astra are for proc stacking, Flamboyant activates proc more, Lancefaire for extra damage and Aegis for protection against bows and ballista.

This could potentially work with as a Basara and Aegis could be changed into whatever you want.(In fact I could recommend making her a Basara since it has way more STR then Falcon Warrior, but Falcon Warrior has better movement. So it is a question, do you want STR or MOV?)

[astrophys]

I want to run a magical Avatar (whether they're using traditional tomes/spells or whether they're abusing magic weapons doesn't matter that much to me)… I would also want to have some magic or hybrid class as his secondary, I guess…. what should my asset/flaw/secondary be, considering the various routes….

I'm assuming if I want a magical Avatar I really should go with +MAG, as otherwise I won't get a reasonable magic growth (50% personal with +MAG, 30 % personal without +MAG), as well as for its +4 MAG cap and +2 speed cap (and 5% growth)…. +SPD would help with doubling, but still leaves the problem of only 30% personal growth….

+MAG, before flaws, personal growths and stats [remember that class stat caps and class growths are needed in the final consideration, but after flaws have been added in they'll be the starting point]

45% Hp, 45% Str, 50% Mag, 40%Skl, 50% Spd, 45% Lck, 35% Def, 30% Res; +4 Mag, +2 Spd, +2 Res

The flaws:

+MAG/-HP:

35% Hp, 45% Str, 50% Mag, 40%Skl, 50% Spd, 45% Lck, 30% Def, 25% Res; -1 Str, +3 Mag, +2 Spd, -1 Lck, -1 Def, +1 Res

+MAG/-Str:

45% Hp, 35% Str, 50% Mag, 35% Skl, 50% Spd, 45% Lck, 30% Def, 30% Res; -3 Str, +4 Mag, -1 Skl, +2 Spd, -1 Def, +2 Res

+MAG/-SKL

45% Hp, 40% Str, 50% Mag, 20% Skl, 50% Spd, 45% Lck, 30% Def, 30% Res; -1 Str, +4 Mag, -3 Skl, +2 Spd, -1 Def, +2 Res

+MAG/-SPD

45% Hp, 45% Str, 50% Mag, 35% Skl, 40% Spd, 40% Lck, 35% Def, 30% Res; +4 Mag, -1 Skl, -1 Spd, -1 Lck, +2 Res

+MAG/-LCK

45% Hp, 40% Str, 45% Mag, 40%Skl, 50% Spd, 25% Lck, 35% Def, 30% Res; -1 Str, +3 Mag, - 3 Lck, +2 Spd, +2 Res

+MAG/-DEF

45% Hp, 45% Str, 50% Mag, 40%Skl, 50% Spd, 40% Lck, 25% Def, 25% Res; +4 Mag, +2 Spd, -1 Lck, -3 Def, +1 Res

+MAG/-RES

45% Hp, 45% Str, 45% Mag, 40%Skl, 45% Spd, 45% Lck, 35% Def, 20% Res; +3 Mag, +1 Spd, -1 Res

What do you think is my best bet? My best class choice?

Spellcaster obviously carries Tomefaire access and magic+2, which are good… although in Nohr/Invisible I could also just use Levin Swords too and boost those and Yato simultaneously…. Dark Mage is fairly limited in the Hoshido route, so that would provide more class coverage while yield options of the Sorcerer and Dark Knight, the latter of which provides a Seal Hoshido is missing (Magic Seal) and also allows for use of a sword alongside it (meaning I could keep my spells and Yato).

And those aren't the only options out there either…

[anachronism89]

I do have a question. Moms for Matoi... I'm thinking of going Oboro-chan. Good idea or not?

It's not a bad idea. Lance Fighter is a good inheritance class for her, giving Lancefaire and the fun Basara skills, and she cannot get it from any A+ supports. However, from what I've seen, Oboro's Lance Fighter seems to be fairly highly demanded by various kids. My personal recommendation would be Hinoka, because she also passes Lance Fighter to Matoi, where she would typically pass Pegasus Knight to most of her kids.

The mods are comparable. Oboro gives 2 more skill and 2 more defence, while Hinoka gives 1 more luck and 1 more resistance.

I think Mitama makes a more compelling argument for Oboro. She gets a good faire, a good proc, Flamboyant, good classes, +4 str, +3 spd, and +3 def. Compare that to Oboro!Matoi's +1 str and +0 spd (which she will also have with Hinoka).

I personally prefer Oboro's hair color on Matoi, rather than Hinoka's. So there's something.

Edited July 13, 2015 by anachronism89

[TheWerdna]

I believe it is anything that only has a chance of happening e.g Luna/Astra/Lethality etc...

Awww, that slightly saddens me. I guess I will be needing to slightly revise my plan.

[astrophys]

Well, yes, Hinoka!Matoi lets Matoi pass down her Lance Fighter in inheritance, which would normally be lost.

Of course, as much as I'm a bit partial to Hinoka!Matoi as it yields a redhead near-Cordelia look-alike easily accessible during Hoshido (Luna's hair is closer, that said), I will point out that Oboro can have an edge in that she can also pass down an Herb Merchant skill and thus give both the Lance Fighter line like Hinoka does while also giving an extra skill that Hinoka cannot….

Hinoka has better overall growths, that said, although the exact link between parent and child growths still needs verification…

Can parents pass down the skills that they themselves got by A+ buddy seals? If so, then that's interesting: e.g. Hinoka + Setsuna A+ --> Golden Kite Warrior Hinoka, who starts picking up Bowman skills form the new base class that she just got, which could let her bequeath Prescient victory onto Matoi….

[Azz]

Well, yes, Hinoka!Matoi lets Matoi pass down her Lance Fighter in inheritance, which would normally be lost.

Of course, as much as I'm a bit partial to Hinoka!Matoi as it yields a redhead near-Cordelia look-alike easily accessible during Hoshido (Luna's hair is closer, that said), I will point out that Oboro can have an edge in that she can also pass down an Herb Merchant skill and thus give both the Lance Fighter line like Hinoka does while also giving an extra skill that Hinoka cannot….

Hinoka has better overall growths, that said, although the exact link between parent and child growths still needs verification…

Can parents pass down the skills that they themselves got by A+ buddy seals? If so, then that's interesting: e.g. Hinoka + Setsuna A+ --> Golden Kite Warrior Hinoka, who starts picking up Bowman skills form the new base class that she just got, which could let her bequeath Prescient victory onto Matoi….

As long as it is in their last slot, it can be passed down.(Well unless it is DLC or I believe a Dread Fighter or Dark Falcon skill)

[Bovinian]

Can parents pass down the skills that they themselves got by A+ buddy seals? If so, then that's interesting: e.g. Hinoka + Setsuna A+ --> Golden Kite Warrior Hinoka, who starts picking up Bowman skills form the new base class that she just got, which could let her bequeath Prescient victory onto Matoi….

Yeah parents should be able to pass down any skills that they have, regardless of the means by which they got them. Naturally that means you'd want to take advantage of this by passing down A+'d skills from the parents whenever possible, letting you get up to two skills on any given child that he/she can't normally get.

Edit: With the exception of DLC skills, like ^ Azz01 mentioned, but that's probably a given.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bovinian

[Ebony]

She gets Lancefaire, Breaking Sky(An amazing proc)and Flamboyant.

So yes Oboro is an awesome mom for her.(And really in general)

The only problem(While not really a problem)Matoi will have a 0 STR mod so yeah.

Here is a suggested set-up.

Matoi@Falon Warrior

Recommend A+ is Sophie

Husband-Really anyone

-Luna(From A+)

-Astra(From Trueblade, her secondary class)

-Flamboyant(From Oboro's Basara)

-Lancefaire(From Oboro's Holy Lancer)

-Aegis(From A+)

Luna and Astra are for proc stacking, Flamboyant activates proc more, Lancefaire for extra damage and Aegis for protection against bows and ballista.

This could potentially work with as a Basara and Aegis could be changed into whatever you want.(In fact I could recommend making her a Basara since it has way more STR then Falcon Warrior, but Falcon Warrior has better movement. So it is a question, do you want STR or MOV?)

Awesome awesome. From both you and Astro. I was thinking of saving Hinoka anyway and I wanted to pair Oboro up with someone.

[TheWerdna]

Wait, I just read according to the wiki the the "Nohr" still only works with passive battle skils. Can anyone confirm this or not?

[Bovinian]

I personally prefer Oboro's hair color on Matoi, rather than Hinoka's. So there's something.

So Matoi can get that Chrom color hair Cordelia wishes she could have

[astrophys]

Naturally that means you'd want to take advantage of this by passing down A+'d skills from the parents whenever possible, letting you get up to two skills on any given child that he/she can't normally get.

Well, A+ skills, or, if they don't get both of their parent's respective classes, passing down a skill form the class that isn't inherited.

Example: Ryouma is a Samurai/Pegasus Warrior, right? Shinonome gets Lancer and inherits Samurai but not Pegasus Warrior…. so Ryouma might want to choose if he wants to pass down Pegasus Warrior skills or A+ support skills or his marriage seal skills.