Alazen Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) In light of the complaints about Corrin as a character (naive, a toady, is worshipped), I'm wondering if FE should dabble into a more... shady Lord. I'm talking one who would not object to looting. One who backs conquest to impose a new order. One who has no regard for enemy civilians. One who treats his subordinates at large as their positions in the social contract. And so on. Edited July 10, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Doubt this would happen. Japan aren't big fans of edgy protagonists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Well, I always love playing the hero, helping out people and all that stuff. Even my attempts at playing Dark Side in both Kotor games always ended up being merely light-grayish. It depends what the story is aiming for, but by default I don't have much of desire to play a scumbag and I really appreciated the series positive outlook in the past. But I can't deny that I would have been a lot less disturbed by the recent games if our supposed Avatars were actually intended to be the horrible people that they are. It's not like I can't enjoy games like No more Heroes as long as the game is self-aware how messed up it's protagonists are. Edited July 9, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm talking one who would not object to looting. One who backs conquest to imoose a new order. One who has no regard for enemy civilians. One who treats his subordinates at large as their positions in the social contract. And so on. Thieves exist. Conquest is sort of done on the Nohr path. You can do that by attacking non-combative units like the clerics in FE3/12 or the villager in Severa's paralogue in FE13. You can sort of do that by favoring certain units over others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well, I always love playing the hero, helping out people and all that stuff. Even my attempts at playing Dark Side in both Kotor games always ended up being merely light-grayish. It depends what the story is aiming for, but by default I don't have much of desire to play a scumbag and I really appreciated the series positive outlook in the past. But I can't deny that I would have been a lot less disturbed by the recent games if our supposed Avatars were actually intended to be the horrible people that they are. It's not like I can't enjoy games like No more Heroes as long as the game is self-aware how messed up it's protagonists are. I agree, I'm far too noblebright to play anything other than Lawful Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Thieves exist.Not really acknowledged in narrative. Otherwise you shoukd wonder about how playable Thieves pick chests in the home castles.Conquest is sort of done on the Nohr path.Corrin is framed as opposing Hoshido's conquest.You can do that by attacking non-combative units like the clerics in FE3/12 or the villager in Severa's paralogue in FE13.Both of those are bad endings or otherwise failure scenarios.You can sort of do that by favoring certain units over others.But without being noted in the narrative. Edited July 10, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamy Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I mean, if the protagonist could be a not-so Lawful Good, I can deal with that. Jerk with a Heart of Gold can also apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Edgy main characters for the sake of being edgy almost never end well and end up being more comical unless they are done incredibly correct. Joel in the Last of Us I guess is a good example of this working, but the Japanese media don't like this too much overall. Edited July 10, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Just play Ogre Battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Just play Ogre Battle. That too, except Destin and Magnus's falls to darkness don't get brought to light much in their main plots until its suddenly relevant :P There are hints though. Edited July 10, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I wouldn't mind having a bad, evil or morally grey protagonism, even if he was an avatar. It honestly doesn't bother me at all to play as a bad guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrouded In Myth Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I would like a lord that doesn't start out as the greatest person, downright evil, but throughout their journey learns to be a good person. I always find redemption plots to be the most inspiring, how even the worst people have humanity that can be salvaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I would like a lord that doesn't start out as the greatest person, downright evil, but throughout their journey learns to be a good person. I always find redemption plots to be the most inspiring, how even the worst people have humanity that can be salvaged. Yes I want this so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) I would like a lord that doesn't start out as the greatest person, downright evil, but throughout their journey learns to be a good person. I always find redemption plots to be the most inspiring, how even the worst people have humanity that can be salvaged. What about another way around? A Lord expected to be a paragon, but it turns out all of them are wrong about what kind of man he is. He shows what he really is in the dark further in the narrative, with his "evil" being there to begin with. Edited July 11, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I don't think Holmes is a good two shoes, and while I don't think Ike is ever really morally ambiguous I also don't think he's really a good two shoes type of lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Ike ordered supplies to be sent to civilians of an enemy kingdom. I would call that "goody goody". Edited July 11, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymbalina's Revenge Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 FE12 and FE13 both pretty much embrace the idea of a Lord who keeps his/her hands squeaky clean while another character does the "dirty" work-- Kris on behalf of Marth, Robin on behalf of Chrom. With Kris it isn't even subtle. What I've seen thus far of a friend's playthrough of one of the FE14 routes is totally in keeping with that. If you're looking for a Lord who's OK with conquest and looting I suspect Thracia 776 is as edgy as you're going to get. And Leif most certainly is expected to show regard for enemy civilians-- that's part of what actually sets Leif apart as the good option for Thracia's future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 That too, except Destin and Magnus's falls to darkness don't get brought to light much in their main plots until its suddenly relevant :P There are hints though. Eh, Magnus doesn't even really become evil, none of his policies are actually different, it's just that people hate him since the darker path is mostly gotten by sending soldiers whose personal beliefs are incompatible w/the local culture (i.e sending units of the wrong alignments to take control of towns). I don't think an evil lord would be necessary, but an "ends justify the means" lord could be interesting depending on the circumstances. Honestly the route thing Fates offered had a good opportunity for this; on one path, you could have an idealistic lord similar to the traditional ones, but unlike them his actions would ultimately be hypocritical and he'd arguably cause more problems than he solves. On another path, he'd be ruthless and willing to commit war crimes if necessary, but does so purely due to desperation and the circumstances or else something much worse would likely happen. The neutral route could have the lord try to avoid the conflict altogether and try to find an independent way of solving it but in doing so, alienates nearly everybody and ultimately has to work the hardest not just to survive, but to even find a solution in the first place and in the end would still be spat on. Fates kind of botched those opportunities though unfortunately. Or yeah, just play the Ogre games. They're a lot better at this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakmé Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Micaiah in Part 3 of Radiant Dawn was rather interesting, being ready to do anything for her country... As she knew her enemies had the upper hand she didn't hesitate to play dirty, even claiming that she didn't care if history remembers her as someone as mad as Ashnard. Trying to set Sanaki's army on fire with snipers awaiting for an ambush was definitly not goody goody ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrouded In Myth Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What about another way around? A Lord expected to be a paragon, but it turns out all of them are wrong about what kind of man he is. He shows what he really is in the dark further in the narrative, with his "evil" being there to begin with. I prefer actual heroes, but I wouldn't be opposed to a villain protagonist who learned how horrible of a person they are just a bit too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Tali Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 See, I prefer "Renegade" to "Tool". Someone determined to do good, but with their own take on it, someone who feels it's okay to do morally questionable things sometimes in order to serve a better end-game. Sort of like making tough decisions: I'm surprised more FE games haven't had you build up units, then necessitate a sacrifice to get a certain progression or move the story forward. Would make it a lot darker and greyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omglmaowtf Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Doubt this would happen. Japan aren't big fans of edgy protagonists. So DMC's Dante never got popular in japan? He isn't exactly 'goody-two-shoes' Lawful Good. And Alazen do you mean something like Renegade Shepard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The most important part of designing a character is making them likable, so making them an edge-lord for the sake of itself would be a mistake. I'd like to see a more ruthless lord who has to make tough decisions, perhaps even seemingly cruel ones that would draw criticism from his retainers. "The power of friendship" and "everyone deserves mercy" are things I could live without in future protagonists. Joel in the Last of Us I guess is a good example of this working, but the Japanese media don't like this too much overall. Joel is a good example of a completely ruthless protagonist that players can still sympathize with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't call Arthas Menethil "sympathetic", since he was an already brutal man out to be great who became a willing tool of the Lich King. And yet he worked out. Edited July 17, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'd like to see a more ruthless lord who has to make tough decisions, perhaps even seemingly cruel ones that would draw criticism from his retainers. Hector from FE7 comes to mind. In his haste to meet up with Eliwood, he attacked a Santaruz guard, perhaps fatally, and was immediately called out on it by Serra and Oswin. Then he pretty much condemned himself to a violent death on the Western Isles in exchange for the power to wield Armads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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