General US Politics

[Anacybele]

where are you getting the news from?

my school had a very peaceful demonstration 2000 strong that went all the way downtown. and i live in one of the hippiest towns in the entire united states at the moment.

They've been on TV the past few days. My parents have been paying close attention to the election. Some of it was also on the radio, as that's where I heard about the guy who was attacked with a skateboard.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Anacybele

[Tolvir]

Something I found quite interesting. I personally think this guy nails what the liberals/dems did wrong this election. Safe spaces, calling anyone who don't agree with them racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Conservatives want to put the blacks back in the cotton fields. Conservatives want to kill gays. Conservatives want to kill women or put them back in the kitchen. Conservatives hate all muslims. As an independent Conservative myself, I stopped talking. I NEVER talked about my views anywhere because this is all I got when I did. I will admit, I didnt post anything on this very thread because I was fearful of the fact that all I would get was vitriol and hate from everyone here, because that is all I got anywhere else.

I dont like Trump, but I voted for him because all Hillary did was tell me that I was a moron, evil, horrible gay hating, race hating, women killing piece of shit. Thanks, sure I will vote for you......

I would of voted third party if there was a viable candidate, but with Gary Johnson not knowing what Allepo (think I am spelling that right), and the others being way too obscure, there really was no other option. It was either the moron who is an outsider and may bring somekind of change, or the woman that would rather see my head on a pike than negotiate with me.

All the media did was not only attack Trump, but viciously attack the voters too. The same people they should try and convince to vote for them, but instead all they did is ridicule them. Make fun of them, call them horrible, and in some cases literally wish death upon them.

The dems lost because they forgot how to negotiate. They forgot how to appeal to other sides other than their own, and in some cases some of their own jumped ship because of that. One of my friend's parents were lifelong democrats, but they voted Trump this election because they are tired of seeing the Dems do nothing but rip the country in half.

So I say this election needs to be a wake up call. It needs to wake up everyone and make them realize that the person on the "other" side of the political spectrum isnt evil. They arent horrible people, and instead of trying to demonize them, we need to work with them. Compromise, Negotiate, etc. We need to unite, not divide this country any further. Unfortunately, the protesters, Hollywood, and the far left media aren't getting the memo.

EDIT: Trying to get the video to play here, instead of just a link. Cant get it to do that though.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Tolvir

[Anacybele]

Something I found quite interesting. I personally think this guy nails what the liberals/dems did wrong this election. Safe spaces, calling anyone who don't agree with them racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Conservatives want to put the blacks back in the cotton fields. Conservatives want to kill gays. Conservatives want to kill women or put them back in the kitchen. Conservatives hate all muslims. As an independent Conservative myself, I stopped talking. I NEVER talked about my views anywhere because this is all I got when I did. I will admit, I didnt post anything on this very thread because I was fearful of the fact that all I would get was vitriol and hate from everyone here, because that is all I got anywhere else.

I dont like Trump, but I voted for him because all Hillary did was tell me that I was a moron, evil, horrible gay hating, race hating, women killing piece of shit. Thanks, sure I will vote for you......

I would of voted third party if there was a viable candidate, but with Gary Johnson not knowing what Allepo (think I am spelling that right), and the others being way too obscure, there really was no other option. It was either the moron who is an outsider and may bring somekind of change, or the woman that would rather see my head on a pike than negotiate with me.

All the media did was not only attack Trump, but viciously attack the voters too. The same people they should try and convince to vote for them, but instead all they did is ridicule them. Make fun of them, call them horrible, and in some cases literally wish death upon them.

The dems lost because they forgot how to negotiate. They forgot how to appeal to other sides other than their own, and in some cases some of their own jumped ship because of that. One of my friend's parents were lifelong democrats, but they voted Trump this election because they are tired of seeing the Dems do nothing but rip the country in half.

So I say this election needs to be a wake up call. It needs to wake up everyone and make them realize that the person on the "other" side of the political spectrum isnt evil. They arent horrible people, and instead of trying to demonize them, we need to work with them. Compromise, Negotiate, etc. We need to unite, not divide this country any further. Unfortunately, the protesters, Hollywood, and the far left media aren't getting the memo.

EDIT: Trying to get the video to play here, instead of just a link. Cant get it to do that though.

Man, this is such a perfect post. People, read this.

[Res]

There's something I've been wanting to ask. Are illegal immigrants to the US allowed to vote in elections?

No; only U.S. Citizens. Hence I couldn't vote; I'm only a permanent resident.

[Tryhard]

One of my friend's parents were lifelong democrats, but they voted Trump this election because they are tired of seeing the Dems do nothing but rip the country in half.

And the establishment Republicans aren't? They are just as divisive if not more. They spent years just obstructing more than having the peoples benefits in mind. Edited November 12, 2016 by Tryhard

[Tolvir]

And the establishment Republicans aren't? They are just as divisive if not more.

But when you have an outsider who might bring change, and an establishment politician who is doing the things I just claimed, who are you going to vote for? He outsider may sound like a moron, and say some pretty dumb things, but he is on the outside. He isn't a career politician that would be bought by others. He founded his own campaign, he isn't taking a salary as president. He is on the outside, and compared to the lifelong politician that is part of the establishment, the outsider might bring something new. May not be the answer you want, you may find it stupid, but it was perfectly reasonable to them.

Edit: Sure he republicans have done he same thing, but the republicans aren't the ones with Hollywood and e Media in their pocket. It wasn't just the Democratic Party. It was the media like Stephen Colbert, MSNBC, Saturday Night Live, etc that were demonizing everyone not far left too that did it.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Tolvir

[Life]

Its not going to happen. The hypocrisy in complaining that the electoral college is up democratic and then asking them to do something blatantly un democratic is pretty bad.

Someone quoted the Jonathan Pie video that's getting traction but nobody went into his YouTube channel and watched the "Brexit means Brexit" video.

​The whole point is that while the election may not be legally binding, it's morally binding because that is how democracy works. Trump was elected on the premise that the people felt that their plights were being outright ignored. Imagine what would happen if the electoral college screws them.

[CyborgZeta]

There's something I've been wanting to ask. Are illegal immigrants to the US allowed to vote in elections?

There is potentially a risk. Some US states, such as California, do give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants; that's a government-issued ID.

Also, without voter ID laws, how do you ensure someone is a citizen before allowing them to vote? The US is probably the only first-world country where you don't have to prove your citizenship before being allowed to vote.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/10/493405211/court-blocks-proof-of-citizenship-requirement-for-voters-in-3-states

[UNLEASH IT]

There is potentially a risk. Some US states, such as California, do give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants; that's a government-issued ID.

Also, without voter ID laws, how do you ensure someone is a citizen before allowing them to vote? The US is probably the only first-world country where you don't have to prove your citizenship before being allowed to vote.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/10/493405211/court-blocks-proof-of-citizenship-requirement-for-voters-in-3-states

I'm still uncertain based on what Res said, but if what you said is true, and Trump actually decides to go through with the mass deportation of illegals like he said he would, Democrats stand to lose a very large portion of their voter base.

Personally (and I know that I'm going to get a lot of flak for this) I'm not completely against the idea of deportations and restricting immigration. People who come here illegally tend to compete with people in the lower class for employment, which African-Americans constitute a large portion of. Denying black people access to jobs and giving them to illegals would only serve to exacerbate the already large sense of disenfranchisement felt in their community, which would lead to more crime and thus even more stereotyping by law enforcement. My main hang up about the idea though is that I doubt the feasibility of it, and I wonder if going through with it would actually create an even larger problem than the one that it's trying to solve.

Edited November 12, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Res]

'Far left media' - what's far left, exactly? Most mainstream media is still pretty centrist; on the far left you're looking at radicalism and social anarchism. And there's such a breadth of media to consume these days that you can receive a biased viewpoint really easily - Fox is still probably one of the biggest outputters of news in the U.S., and they're still a right-wing production. Actually quite a few links that get posted in here (especially in the feminism thread we had here) are critical of the left.

Undoubtedly, the Democratic Party did an awful lot wrong this election. But I don't feel like Trump is really going to do much to really shake things up, either. At the end of the day, the vote goes to the party's issues.

This is making me miss U.K. politics, where you vote for a party and not a figurehead, and campaigns are cheaper and more subdued (although the Labour Party did have its demonic head posters...) I never watch anything relating to U.S. politics on TV because I can't stand the shouting and the vitriol.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Res

[CyborgZeta]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I feel like this is extremely ill advised. If this somehow succeeds (which it won't) and electors decide to vote for Hillary, ignoring the votes of their state, it opens up the possibility for large amounts of violence to erupt.

If the electors went through with this, they are basically asking for civil war.

First the Dems lost the game and wanted to change the rules, and now this. I feel this has election has exposed the ignorance a lot of people have about how the US works.

[Augestein]

If the electors went through with this, they are basically asking for civil war.

First the Dems lost the game and wanted to change the rules, and now this. I feel this has election has exposed the ignorance a lot of people have about how the US works.

No. I think you're missing the bigger picture here. If anything, this demonstrates how unhappy people were with the candidates. Sure people always complained about the person they wanted to win, but let's take a minute to reflect here for a moment. Does anyone honestly think people would be silent if Clinton won? It literally means that our country is MORE divided on issues than we thought prior. And not simply to a small "I disagree" portion, but to the fact that entire groups are willing to stand up and shout about it.

In some ways, this could actually be a good thing. Maybe people will pay more attention to what's happening and become more involved in the government. Perhaps this is the type of wake-up call America needs. Not necessarily Trump in office, but a wake-up call that the candidates were so bad that no matter the choice it couldn't pacify discontent groups or assure them that they're lives would be okay.

I see nothing wrong with people trying to scramble against their potential leader. Specifically if they didn't vote for the person. It's not "the Dems lost the game" here. It's "America lost and the parties failed them." If anything, this is the time where citizens of America need to focus on the core of someone's character rather than the party itself. I keep hearing about how "Dems" lost, but it's like people forget how upset republicans were over Trump even raising that high in the first place.

[UNLEASH IT]

No. I think you're missing the bigger picture here. If anything, this demonstrates how unhappy people were with the candidates. Sure people always complained about the person they wanted to win, but let's take a minute to reflect here for a moment. Does anyone honestly think people would be silent if Clinton won? It literally means that our country is MORE divided on issues than we thought prior. And not simply to a small "I disagree" portion, but to the fact that entire groups are willing to stand up and shout about it.

In some ways, this could actually be a good thing. Maybe people will pay more attention to what's happening and become more involved in the government. Perhaps this is the type of wake-up call America needs. Not necessarily Trump in office, but a wake-up call that the candidates were so bad that no matter the choice it couldn't pacify discontent groups or assure them that they're lives would be okay.

I see nothing wrong with people trying to scramble against their potential leader. Specifically if they didn't vote for the person. It's not "the Dems lost the game" here. It's "America lost and the parties failed them." If anything, this is the time where citizens of America need to focus on the core of someone's character rather than the party itself. I keep hearing about how "Dems" lost, but it's like people forget how upset republicans were over Trump even raising that high in the first place.

I understand where you're coming from but many of the states where Trump won have a lot of registered firearm owners and if their electors voted for Hillary, they would be enraged. I'd rather not piss those people off. And also, being a liberal myself, I don't really want people who claim to share my idea of peace and tolerance to be the cause this country falling into a violent nationwide conflict.

Edited November 12, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Rezzy]

Something I found quite interesting. I personally think this guy nails what the liberals/dems did wrong this election. Safe spaces, calling anyone who don't agree with them racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Conservatives want to put the blacks back in the cotton fields. Conservatives want to kill gays. Conservatives want to kill women or put them back in the kitchen. Conservatives hate all muslims. As an independent Conservative myself, I stopped talking. I NEVER talked about my views anywhere because this is all I got when I did. I will admit, I didnt post anything on this very thread because I was fearful of the fact that all I would get was vitriol and hate from everyone here, because that is all I got anywhere else.

I dont like Trump, but I voted for him because all Hillary did was tell me that I was a moron, evil, horrible gay hating, race hating, women killing piece of shit. Thanks, sure I will vote for you......

I would of voted third party if there was a viable candidate, but with Gary Johnson not knowing what Allepo (think I am spelling that right), and the others being way too obscure, there really was no other option. It was either the moron who is an outsider and may bring somekind of change, or the woman that would rather see my head on a pike than negotiate with me.

All the media did was not only attack Trump, but viciously attack the voters too. The same people they should try and convince to vote for them, but instead all they did is ridicule them. Make fun of them, call them horrible, and in some cases literally wish death upon them.

The dems lost because they forgot how to negotiate. They forgot how to appeal to other sides other than their own, and in some cases some of their own jumped ship because of that. One of my friend's parents were lifelong democrats, but they voted Trump this election because they are tired of seeing the Dems do nothing but rip the country in half.

So I say this election needs to be a wake up call. It needs to wake up everyone and make them realize that the person on the "other" side of the political spectrum isnt evil. They arent horrible people, and instead of trying to demonize them, we need to work with them. Compromise, Negotiate, etc. We need to unite, not divide this country any further. Unfortunately, the protesters, Hollywood, and the far left media aren't getting the memo.

EDIT: Trying to get the video to play here, instead of just a link. Cant get it to do that though.

I think Hillary really stepped in it, when she said half of Trump's supporters were a basket of deplorables. It reminds me of 2012, when Romney said that 47% of the population didn't pay taxes, so they wouldn't vote for him. Calling out a significant percentage of the voter base is never going to turn out well. They are supposed to be trying to convince voters, not insult them.

[tuvarkz]

I'm still uncertain based on what Res said, but if what you said is true, and Trump actually decides to go through with the mass deportation of illegals like he said he would, Democrats stand to lose a very large portion of their voter base.

Personally (and I know that I'm going to get a lot of flak for this) I'm not completely against the idea of deportations and restricting immigration. People who come here illegally tend to compete with people in the lower class for employment, which African-Americans constitute a large portion of. Denying black people access to jobs and giving them to illegals would only serve to exacerbate the already large sense of disenfranchisement felt in their community, which would lead to more crime and thus even more stereotyping by law enforcement. My main hang up about the idea though is that I doubt the feasibility of it, and I wonder if going through with it would actually create an even larger problem than the one that it's trying to solve.

Well, even if some illegals ought to remain hidden, at least there's a good 1.4 million that are on a literal list to begin with

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/1.4-million-obama-amnesty-applicants-on-deportation-hit-list/article/2607171

EDIT: To clarify, I mean that there will be plenty of time to start looking for the other 10 million or so illegals to deport while these first 1.4 million are processed.

Edited November 12, 2016 by tuvarkz

[UNLEASH IT]

I think Hillary really stepped in it, when she said half of Trump's supporters were a basket of deplorables. It reminds me of 2012, when Romney said that 47% of the population didn't pay taxes, so they wouldn't vote for him. Calling out a significant percentage of the voter base is never going to turn out well. They are supposed to be trying to convince voters, not insult them.

I feel like both of them suffered from the same mistake of concentrating support on groups people that would've probably voted for them regardless while not reaching out to those who felt ignored. God, she really is like Romney isn't she? The only difference is that she lacks the decency to hide her own arrogance behind closed doors.

Edited November 12, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Tryhard]

But when you have an outsider who might bring change, and an establishment politician who is doing the things I just claimed, who are you going to vote for? He outsider may sound like a moron, and say some pretty dumb things, but he is on the outside. He isn't a career politician that would be bought by others. He founded his own campaign, he isn't taking a salary as president. He is on the outside, and compared to the lifelong politician that is part of the establishment, the outsider might bring something new. May not be the answer you want, you may find it stupid, but it was perfectly reasonable to them.

Edit: Sure he republicans have done he same thing, but the republicans aren't the ones with Hollywood and e Media in their pocket. It wasn't just the Democratic Party. It was the media like Stephen Colbert, MSNBC, Saturday Night Live, etc that were demonizing everyone not far left too that did it.

I even admitted that the perception of Trump "not being able to be bought" or anti-establishment is one of his stronger appeals, even if I think it is fake. Noting one of his more prominent "outsider" points already went back on:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-transition-team-members-presidential-advisors-washington-swamp-a7412226.html

The US media is dogshit and some of the worst I've ever seen and I said nothing otherwise.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Tryhard

[Res]

Man, this is such a perfect post. People, read this.

I don't think anyone here hasn't agreed that the Democratic Party majorly screwed up. And UNLEASH IT has been posting articles criticizing liberals (and I provided one, too) for a couple of days, now.

Ultimately, if your vote is a protest vote, you probably weren't going to be hugely affected either way.

I'm still uncertain based on what Res said, but if what you said is true, and Trump actually decides to go through with the mass deportation of illegals like he said he would, Democrats stand to lose a very large portion of their voter base.

Personally (and I know that I'm going to get a lot of flak for this) I'm not completely against the idea of deportations and restricting immigration. People who come here illegally tend to compete with people in the lower class for employment, which African-Americans constitute a large portion of. Denying black people access to jobs and giving them to illegals would only serve to exacerbate the already large sense of disenfranchisement felt in their community, which would lead to more crime and thus even more stereotyping by law enforcement. My main hang up about the idea though is that I doubt the feasibility of it, and I wonder if going through with it would actually create an even larger problem than the one that it's trying to solve.

Immigrating to the U.S. is already pretty tough (speaking as someone who's been through the system). I mean, it's partly why there are so many undocumented immigrants in the first place.

I'm surprised I don't see more outrage against 'anchor babies'. It's not uncommon, at least in California. My Mexican ex-coworker was an anchor baby (and U.S. citizen as a result). I *think* my boss's sister (she's Canadian) had her baby here, too.

[Anacybele]

I don't think anyone here hasn't agreed that the Democratic Party majorly screwed up. And UNLEASH IT has been posting articles criticizing liberals (and I provided one, too) for a couple of days, now.

Ultimately, if your vote is a protest vote, you probably weren't going to be hugely affected either way.

Yeah, but it also feels like people blame the hate all on Trump when that's not the case at all. Sure, he said some controversial things, but that was hardly the only factor.

[Augestein]

I understand where you're coming from but many of the states where Trump won have a lot of registered firearm owners and if their electors voted for Hillary, they would be enraged. I'd rather not piss those people off. And also, being a liberal myself, I don't really want people who claim to share my idea of peace and tolerance to be the cause this country falling into a violent nationwide conflict.

Which really doesn't change anything. The point is, there's discontent to be had no matter which one was chosen.

[CyborgZeta]

I even admitted that the perception of Trump "not being able to be bought" or anti-establishment is one of his stronger appeals, even if I think it is fake. Noting one of his more prominent "outsider" points already went back on:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-transition-team-members-presidential-advisors-washington-swamp-a7412226.html

I'll be fair here and say that there are so many appointments Trump will have to make that he'll eventually have to draw on Washington insiders to fill them. It's the Cabinet and other close positions that we'll need to keep an eye on.

Immigrating to the U.S. is already pretty tough (speaking as someone who's been through the system). I mean, it's partly why there are so many undocumented immigrants in the first place.

I'm surprised I don't see more outrage against 'anchor babies'.

US immigration throughout history has generally been a lot more lenient than other first-world countries, at least in terms of the amount of immigrants it accepts. Not only that, but most other countries prioritize highly-skilled immigrants; the US by comparison accepts a lot of poor or unskilled immigrants.

Anchor babies is a concern, and even Trump himself has talked about repealing or modifying the Fourteenth Amendment. Birthright citizenship is something that is far too easily abused, and I've mentioned birth tourism here before.

[Zanarkin]

You know, I was just wondering, will Trump remain as the CEO of his organization while being the president?

There was a similiar situation with Dick Cheney, but it's not quite the same.

Another thing, won't Trump end with conflict of interests between his organization and the government?

I wonder how he plans to deal with that.

[spoiler=starts around 14:40]

So, it seems like plans to let his kids run the company.

[solrocknroll]

-A lot more non-white citizens voted for Trump this time around.

Trump gained a decent amount votes from Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and such.

-As for concerns of the LGBT community.... video

Theirs and other's fears are unfounded.

-The mainstream media has planted the idea of Trump and Trump supporters being racist, misogynist, homophobic, islamophobic (which is not an unfounded fear) into many of the left that in their minds it's okay to shout down and harass and even beat anyone who even has an inkling of Trump support.

-The people rioting and protesting are definitely a symptom of just how far gone the left is and has gotten and quite frankly it is just depressing to see these people act this way but it's not unsurprising given how Trump has been portrayed and what kind of person they believe him to be thanks to the mainstream media.

The anti-white sentiment is becoming even more obvious from the outcome of the election and it will only continue to divide the people in the Western world.

You don't get to tell me what to fear lol. That's your straight privledge talking.

You've never had to want for rights. We are still wanting. You don't get to dictate what is fearful or not. Right now, everything is fearful, for we are hirting.

[Anacybele]

You don't get to tell me what to fear lol. That's your straight privledge talking.

You've never had to want for rights. We are still wanting. You don't get to dictate what is fearful or not. Right now, everything is fearful, for we are hirting.

You are really starting to annoy me. All Ein is trying to do is give you hope and relief of your fear, and basically tell you that you don't need to worry, that it'll be okay, and you just spit in his face. Go away, please. You also don't even make much sense here to me.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Anacybele

[tuvarkz]

You don't get to tell me what to fear lol. That's your straight privledge talking.

You've never had to want for rights. We are still wanting. You don't get to dictate what is fearful or not. Right now, everything is fearful, for we are hirting.

Indeed, no one can tell you not to fear something. But people can say when a fear is paranoid or entirely unfounded.

Regarding the transition team: I do not like it (although at the same time, there's things I do not like about Trump's policies or actions), although I find CyborgZeta's point reasonable, or the (more idealist, although banking on Trump winning was idealist to begin with) possibility that some of the corrupt members of the government, in their own self-interest, have decided to blow the whistle on the rest perhaps on an arrangement to stay in power themselves, if having to abide by the new guidelines (self-interest in the meaning that retaining a bit of power is better than losing it all).