General US Politics

[Res]

This is what makes me uneasy. While I still disagree with your claim that racism/sexism and homophobia won this election for Trump, the fact still remains that a large portion (not the majority) of his support base have these views and him winning gives them validation to spout their hateful rhetoric. I can only hope that Trump comes to openly condemn this part of his support base, but that seems unlikely to me.

I feel like my posts yesterday were misunderstood. It wasn't quite what I was saying, and the subtleties are important. I'll see if I can find an article that more eloquently states what I wished to say, because I can't quite seem to make my point.

God damn it, the third night of rioters and protesters over the election. It's happening mainly in the west (Hillary did win a lot of those states), but it's despicable. These salty idiot people claim to want to get rid of hate (one person was holding a sign that said "no hate"), but they're creating hate by doing this bullshit.

And some people think only Trump had some awful supporters. No, hundreds of Hillary's supporters are being shitheads right now.

Trump says he "likes the passion" these people show. I guess that's one way to put it, but still, this rioting is plain stupid and wrong and is making our country look piss poor. He needs to say something more serious. I'm literally ashamed right now to say I love this country when this crap is happening...

I may be wrong, but the protestors I know aren't Hillary supporters. There's probably a good portion who voted out of 'I guess I'm with her', but in the western states especially I'd expect a fair few voted third party or not at all. They're anti-Trump rather than pro-Hillary. And I don't say that as a Hillary supporter, because I'm not.

What's so wrong with protesting? The case against rioting is obvious, but protests are valid.

The U.S. itself and every major social change (suffragettes, civil rights, etc.) have been built off the backs of protesters.

[Just call me AL]

It's a terrible plan/theory because there's quite a few Republicans who would -prefer- a Pence presidency lol.

From the way how things are sounding now, Ryan and Christie may very well be on that list of people you describe.

[Emperor Petitt]

Again I think we were better off with Harambe as president, who hates bananas?

[Rezzy]

Never mind, I don't want that to get taken the wrong way.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Rezzy

[Crysta]

I don't understand the voters who stayed home and refused to vote but are out protesting right now.

Being against Trump is one thing, but what the fuck did they expect to happen? What do they want to happen now? They're not re-doing the election.

[Anacybele]

I don't understand the voters who stayed home and refused to vote but are out protesting right now.

Being against Trump is one thing, but what the fuck did they expect to happen? What do they want to happen now? They're not re-doing the election.

Yeah, this is an issue I have with the protests and riots too. WTF DID they expect to happen?

[Rezzy]

I don't understand the voters who stayed home and refused to vote but are out protesting right now.

Being against Trump is one thing, but what the fuck did they expect to happen? What do they want to happen now? They're not re-doing the election.

Some were lazy and expected Hillary to win. I remember the media was giving Nate Silver serious crap for saying Trump had a 30% chance of winning or so. There's probably some opportunistic looters or people who just like causing trouble.

I voted 3rd party with the knowledge that my candidate wouldn't win, so I resigned myself to not being thrilled with the outcome months ago.

[Res]

I don't think he realizes that, as a president, his freedom will the most limited than it ever was his entire life.

Of course he will praise their passion.

The worser and more violent the riots get, the better and easier it will get for him.

He's not saying anything to stop this riots because he doesn't want them to stop.

Yes! I can't say I ever envy heads of state, not even a little.

And the work involved! It's non-stop.

lol someone in a chat I'm in was mentioning some conspiracy about how Pence is basically assassination insurance because of his fuck-crazy beliefs. I wouldn't take this TOO seriously, but it is kind of a funny theory.

Hahaha

I will admit that I never foresaw any of this though, the hate some of his supporters expressed, the violence, the protests and riots... I just never saw it coming.

When Obama was elected, people strung up effigies and hung them from trees (this is huuugely racist; think of lynchings). They called for his impeachment. He was told to go back to Kenya. Google 'Obama protest pictures' and there's plenty.

Non-white people were writing articles for months and months telling of their fear of a Trump presidency (many also predicted it). Racial tensions have been escalating for years. In some way this is a positive reflection of society; see, the problems have always been there, for hundreds of years. It's just that people were either too afraid to speak up or they weren't being heard. A lot of *recent* history is nasty. Native American people of *my* generation were forced to speak English and were stripped of their culture and forced to assimilate into schools. It was in my parents' generation that interracial marriage was illegal. That being gay in itself - not just gay marriage - was illegal.

So people are finally being listened to and that's great - but it can make the problems appear worse. The media is finally reporting on things that would have been totally ignored (and thus unheard by the general population) before. Things have a tendency to get worse, to reach a boiling point, before things get better.

Life lesson time~!I'll take your word for it that you feel fear for being a Trump supporter. Do you like that feeling? The same fear you feel is what minorities feel - unsure of whether or not they'd be the target of harassment (or worse). Though using fear is a horrible way of relating to people, it's a start. They feel it, and you feel it, too. The question is. . .what will you do with this knowledge? Make those feeling of fear worse for others? Nod, knowing that perhaps the two of you aren't quite as different as you thought? Completely ignore me because it sounds like I'm talking out of my ass?

Yes! This is a great time to reach out to people and let them know they're supported.

-A lot more non-white citizens voted for Trump this time around.

Trump gained a decent amount votes from Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and such.

-As for concerns of the LGBT community.... video

Theirs and other's fears are unfounded.

I feel like Pence as VP alone is a valid reason to feel fear...

-The mainstream media has planted the idea of Trump and Trump supporters being racist, misogynist, homophobic, islamophobic (which is not an unfounded fear) into many of the left that in their minds it's okay to shout down and harass and even beat anyone who even has an inkling of Trump support.

This sounds as fearful and hyperbolic as anything the left is saying.

And a lot of people exhibit racist, misogynistic, homophobic gestures and language; of course, the intention isn't always there. The problem lies with the words themselves - tell someone they're exhibiting a racist behavior is to use a dirty word; it offends them, it produces a knee jerk reaction, but it's worth talking about. Take my mom; she's probably the nicest person I know, with not a single mean bone in her body. But she uses outdated language - 'colored people' - and she's anti-gay marriage (or was), so she exhibits racist and homophobic behaviors even if she's not 'a racist' or 'a homophobe'.

The anti-white sentiment is becoming even more obvious from the outcome of the election and it will only continue to divide the people in the Western world.

What's anti-white? Or rather, what whiteness are people against? Are you equating whiteness with the right?

[Anacybele]

When Obama was elected, people strung up effigies and hung them from trees (this is huuugely racist; think of lynchings). They called for his impeachment. He was told to go back to Kenya. Google 'Obama protest pictures' and there's plenty.

Non-white people were writing articles for months and months telling of their fear of a Trump presidency (many also predicted it). Racial tensions have been escalating for years. In some way this is a positive reflection of society; see, the problems have always been there, for hundreds of years. It's just that people were either too afraid to speak up or they weren't being heard. A lot of *recent* history is nasty. Native American people of *my* generation were forced to speak English and were stripped of their culture and forced to assimilate into schools. It was in my parents' generation that interracial marriage was illegal. That being gay in itself - not just gay marriage - was illegal.

So people are finally being listened to and that's great - but it can make the problems appear worse. The media is finally reporting on things that would have been totally ignored (and thus unheard by the general population) before. Things have a tendency to get worse, to reach a boiling point, before things get better.

I'll admit, I hadn't any idea about a lot of this because truth be told, this year's election was the first one I actually paid a lot of attention to. In the past, I didn't care a lot because politics bored me to tears. And it still does, honestly. But decided to start caring anyway because that's part of adult life and keeping this country awesome.

And to answer your question from before, on what's wrong with protesting, it's not protesting in itself that I have an issue with. It's when it turns violent and into rioting that I take issue. And these recent protests HAVE been exactly that with all the arrests and the one guy who was assaulted with a skateboard and another guy who didn't even support Trump get accused of voting for him and then beaten up.

[UNLEASH IT]

I feel like my posts yesterday were misunderstood. It wasn't quite what I was saying, and the subtleties are important. I'll see if I can find an article that more eloquently states what I wished to say, because I can't quite seem to make my point.

I may be wrong, but the protestors I know aren't Hillary supporters. There's probably a good portion who voted out of 'I guess I'm with her', but in the western states especially I'd expect a fair few voted third party or not at all. They're anti-Trump rather than pro-Hillary. And I don't say that as a Hillary supporter, because I'm not.

What's so wrong with protesting? The case against rioting is obvious, but protests are valid.

The U.S. itself and every major social change (suffragettes, civil rights, etc.) have been built off the backs of protesters.

I understand where the protesters are coming from (though if they really didn't want this to happen, they should've said so much sooner), but they really aren't doing themselves any favors here. To protest before Trump has even done anything allows detractors to claim that progressives are irrational and paranoid.

Also, with regards to the post you made yesterday, please do, because I feel like you're seeing something that I'm not, which makes me a hypocrite, since I've been loudly proclaiming that liberals have been blinded by their own arrogance for the past few days.

Edited November 12, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[shadowofchaos]

I can see Ana's point. By preaching "tolerance", they're actually preaching hate since all they're tolerating is their group.

There are many Trump supporters that aren't bigoted, racist, or idiotic like the man is. They have their own reasons.

My father would have been one of those reasonable people that would exercise his right to vote for the man if he had it. And I respect those reasons, not because he's my father, but because he has his own opinions and reasons for wanting to vote for a man I think is an unqualified idiot.

[Phoenix Wright]

I haven't heard anything about these protests being peaceful. There have been dozens of arrests. And you're probably right that some Trump supporters probably would've done the same thing (my stepdad doesn't think so because "Republicans don't do that" and maybe in the past they didn't, but I don't agree with him in this case. This election has been very different from past ones.), but it's still wrong and awful.

Whether Hillary or Trump supporters are doing the rioting/violent protesting, it doesn't make it right at all. I've already heard some stories of innocent people getting hurt. It makes me fear for my own safety as a Trump supporter.

I will admit that I never foresaw any of this though, the hate some of his supporters expressed, the violence, the protests and riots... I just never saw it coming.

where are you getting the news from?

my school had a very peaceful demonstration 2000 strong that went all the way downtown. and i live in one of the hippiest towns in the entire united states at the moment.

[Pixelman]

So apparently on monday a bunch of students at my school are going to hold a "peaceful protest" on school campus at 1:30 in response to Trump being elected.

Do you guys think this is appropriate/acceptable or not? IMO it's fine to protest against something you disagree with, but I feel you shouldn't be doing it during the middle of 6th Period/classtime because you should be, y'know, learning instead.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Pixelman

[Crysta]

you can't really stop someone from leaving class if they really want to

edit: well unless they're really young I guess?

Edited November 12, 2016 by Crysta

[Res]

I don't understand the voters who stayed home and refused to vote but are out protesting right now.

Being against Trump is one thing, but what the fuck did they expect to happen? What do they want to happen now? They're not re-doing the election.

Well, being that a lot of them (actually all the ones I'm talking of) are in safely blue states, I think they felt they could safely express their party disloyalty by not voting. A couple I know personally did express that they'd screwed up, though.

And to answer your question from before, on what's wrong with protesting, it's not protesting in itself that I have an issue with. It's when it turns violent and into rioting that I take issue. And these recent protests HAVE been exactly that with all the arrests and the one guy who was assaulted with a skateboard and another guy who didn't even support Trump get accused of voting for him and then beaten up.

Yeah, that's fair. I definitely don't condone the violence.

However, there are nearly always opportunists that take advantage of a protest. They're not necessarily amongst the actual protestors. And arrests happen regardless of how peaceful the protests are. Again, I'm not condoning it; I'm trying to say that I think there's probably not a foolproof solution to organizing a completely peaceful protest, on a large scale.

I understand where the protesters are coming from (though if they really didn't want this to happen, they should've said so much sooner), but they really aren't doing themselves any favors here. To protest before Trump has even done anything allows detractors to claim that progressives are irrational and paranoid.

Also, with regards to the post you made yesterday, please do, because I feel like you're seeing something that I'm not, which makes me a hypocrite, since I've been loudly proclaiming that liberals have been blinded by their own arrogance for the past few days.

You're not a hypocrite; I'm terrible at explaining myself sometimes! I'm even worse when speaking. ;)

First, I screwed up by muddling the people who won Trump the election with regular Republican voters. What I meant to say is: I acknowledge that the people who won Trump the election probably primarily voted for the economic reforms he promised, but I was also trying to make a point about the other Trump voters, the ones who aren't in the swing states and who make up the majority of his supporters, number-wise. They're the supporters I'm personally familiar with and see different motivations/reasons for voting from.

Secondly, I hope I already clarified this in the other thread, but I was trying to steer clear of labeling anyone as racist. And I was trying to say that it's not that the motivations of the majority of people are racist/misogynistic/homophobic, but that people can be motivated to uphold a society that's inherently racist/misogynistic/homophobic.

To take an example: I benefit from my race in current society. I'm an immigrant, but my name isn't questioned. I'm not told to go back home or looked at funnily. I can walk through a store without the security guard's eye on me. I don't fear seeking help from the police.

If I vote to improve my own situation in life, while either maintaining the status quo or ignoring that things may get more dangerous (not just worse, because things are always going to get worse for some people) for others, I'm upholding a society that benefits me, and I'm implicit in maintaining the racism in that society.

Now, voting for either party is going to uphold society/maintain the status quo to an extent. The whole political system in the U.S. is stagnant and the differences between the parties aren't really that great (hence why Trump and Bernie were such big shockers in the primaries). But we try and vote for the party we think might be most receptive to our demands. All of the remarks and promises Trump made during the primaries suggested we could expect the reins to be tightened or even drawn in altogether on a number of social issues.

So I believe that the majority of Trump supporters are not racist or misogynistic or homophobic. But since they voted to uphold a society that is, they're implicit in it unless they take a stance and speak up against it. Or donate, or just reach out and give their assurance to people. And yes, this is something non-Trump supporters should/can do, too.

[Time the Crestfallen]

So what does everyone think of this?
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/11/13587120/lobbying-trump-corruption
http://www.vox.com/latest-news/2016/11/11/13602312/donald-trump-transition-team

[Crysta]

It's bad enough that this guy has a very feasible chance of becoming the next president and we may have to listen to him for another four years, but he's guaranteed to appoint advisers just as incompetent and self-serving as he is.

par for course, imo

he will appoint his friends. his friends are lobbyists and people with deep pockets.

[Yojinbo]

Relevant.

inb4notalltrumpsupportersarelikethat [i know. It's a caricature, an exaggeration]

[UNLEASH IT]

Relevant.

inb4notalltrumpsupportersarelikethat [i know. It's a caricature, an exaggeration]

But it does make a point. You can't condemn the crazies of an opposing group while conveniently ignoring the extremists within your own. It makes you look like you're full of shit.

[Punished Dayni]

I have a question. Should discussion on the US President Elect's future plans be discussed elsewhere?

Because while you could argue that discussing these is relevant, this thread is mostly about the reaction to the election itself. So just wanting to clarify.

[Water Mage]

You know, I was just wondering, will Trump remain as the CEO of his organization while being the president?

There was a similiar situation with Dick Cheney, but it's not quite the same.

Another thing, won't Trump end with conflict of interests between his organization and the government?

I wonder how he plans to deal with that.

[Alertcircuit]

So what does everyone think of this?

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/11/13587120/lobbying-trump-corruption

http://www.vox.com/latest-news/2016/11/11/13602312/donald-trump-transition-team

There's a lot of stuff in that 100 day plan that makes no sense. How is he going to "drain the swamp"? Does he really think Congressmen will vote to fire themselves?

Protests seem like a waste of time. Literally the only purpose they could serve is to convince electors to vote for Hillary, and even then I don't think this is enough to do that.

[UNLEASH IT]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I feel like this is extremely ill advised. If this somehow succeeds (which it won't) and electors decide to vote for Hillary, ignoring the votes of their state, it opens up the possibility for large amounts of violence to erupt.

Edited November 12, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[blah the Prussian]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I feel like this is extremely ill advised. If this somehow succeeds (which it won't) and electors decide to vote for Hillary, ignoring the votes of their state, it opens up the possibility for large amounts of violence to erupt.

Its not going to happen. The hypocrisy in complaining that the electoral college is up democratic and then asking them to do something blatantly un democratic is pretty bad.

[UNLEASH IT]

There's something I've been wanting to ask. Are illegal immigrants to the US allowed to vote in elections?