Lord Raven Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 that's not a trait restricted to the right, if you look at this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 i couldn't care less about political affiliation or party loyalty. politicians and voters playing for a team is why american politics is already so shit, because it's okay when their guy does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 on the bright side Trump may have let us dodge a bullet https://www.rt.com/news/365966-putin-trump-congratulates-victory/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Cold war is almost finally over so there is that. Probably at the expense of Eastern/all of Europe. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Probably at the expense of Eastern/all of Europe. You misspelled "benefit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Cold war is almost finally over so there is that. Probably at the expense of Eastern/all of Europe. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I was just reading about that this morning. i couldn't care less about political affiliation or party loyalty. politicians and voters playing for a team is why american politics is already so shit, because it's okay when their guy does it. Mmhmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 You misspelled "benefit". Depends. If Russia starts trying to muscle in on other European nations (something I wouldn't find surprising, given what's happening in Ukraine what I know of Putin) and Trump stays true to his anti-NATO rhetoric, then Europe will almost certainly not benefit from this. Again, we'll have to wait and see although I do believe that this won't be good for Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 on the bright side Trump may have let us dodge a bullet https://www.rt.com/news/365966-putin-trump-congratulates-victory/ Good to hear America may dodge a bullet. Its just a shame the bullet is going to keep going....and hit Europe. With Putin's attitude towards Europe its not at all in our interest for big brother America to go cuddle up to Putin. If America pulls out Europe will be left facing Russia alone. That's not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I do wonder what this means for Syria though. Genuinely curious about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I do wonder what this means for Syria though. Genuinely curious about that. Russia will continue to support the government so that radical Islamists won't take over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Depends. If Russia starts trying to muscle in on other European nations (something I wouldn't find surprising, given what's happening in Ukraine what I know of Putin) and Trump stays true to his anti-NATO rhetoric, then Europe will almost certainly not benefit from this. Again, we'll have to wait and see although I do believe that this won't be good for Europe. What's happening in Ukraine is EU / NATO / US trying to muscle their way in, the russians don't have to do that ... they've been day since before Ukranie even existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/rust-belt-democrats-saw-trump-wave-coming This is a bit of an interesting read. You know, from all this news about working class frustration, I get the feeling that Bernie Sanders had a huge influence on this election's outcome despite not being in the final race Edited November 11, 2016 by UNLEASH IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 The reality is, Clinton was just not a candidate who many who voted democrat in 2012 (rust belt white union workers, african-americans) could get enthusiastic about. At the very least, Clinton won the African-American vote by more than 50% over Sanders in the primary (about 75% to 23%). I'm not sure that Sanders would've done any better in the general election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 i can see him doing better with the rust belt states clinton managed to lose but not, say, florida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Of course we can't know for sure, but we should definitely take away from this that the DNC's strategy and their candidate was out of touch with reality. What, you mean declaring the ultimate establishment candidate as their chosen one in an election where anti-establishment sentiments were rampant, even going so far as to screw over an arguably more popular candidate to make sure she won the primaries was a bad idea? I'm absolutely shocked /s. Seriously, I hope the DNC learned a lesson from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 you guys seem to forget that bloomberg was going to join the race if bernie won the nomination and not every democrat is as far to the left as you are lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 i'm pretty sure you're just swapping who isn't enthused enough to go to the polls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 you guys seem to forget that bloomberg was going to join the race if bernie won the nomination and not every democrat is as far to the left as you are lol Out of touch, who's bloomberg. On another note, I'm not saying that Bernie would've won necessarily, just that I think that he would've been a more suitable candidate than Hillary, especially considering the anti-establishment attitude about the election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 This guy, who would have appealed to the centrists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 African-Americans are sick and tired of being told the same things over and over again by their candidates and getting nothing during the presidency. They had low turnout in key states, especially compared to 2012. i remember people in this thread complaining about these african americans "sleepwalking" to clinton do tell me how to do think this would suddenly change and they would be enthused about your candidate, putting aside your own fondness for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 And not every Republican was as far to the right as Trump was, but look who won. Trump isn't especially far right by some metrics. Even McMullin literally based his campaign around the premise that Trump wasn't conservative enough. He would absolutely be the more centrist candidate by US standards (with their fear of mere word "socialism") had it been him vs. Sanders. Also Sanders lost Pennsylvania by 12 points to Clinton in the primary, so the idea that he could have taken PA from Trump is a pure Sanders fan pipe dream. He was significantly less popular than Clinton among African Americans, who make up a huge part of the Democratic voter-base in Philadelphia. I speak as someone who likes Clinton and Sanders about equally, for the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) What's happening in Ukraine is EU / NATO / US trying to muscle their way in, the russians don't have to do that ... they've been day since before Ukranie even existed. No it's not. Ukraine approached the west because UKRAINIANS wanted it. Russia always oppressed Ukraine. The Soviet Union back in the day even commited genocide against Ukrainians. It's only natural Ukraine would want to move away from Russia, specially considering what had happened to Georgia. Russia has absolutely no right to tell Ukraine and Ukrainians what they should do and which countries they should have relations with. Same with the baltic countries. Putin is probably one of the worst tyrants right now in the world. i can see him doing better with the rust belt states clinton managed to lose but not, say, florida Florida was one of the states with the biggest increase in turn out this election. Both Trump and Hillary actually had more votes than Romney and Obama Oh nevermind, you were talking about Bernie. I though you were talking about Trump Edited November 12, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 ok my point was more that i couldn't see sanders putting florida in the blue column (clinton didn't either but she had a better shot imo) and while it's not absolutely NEEDED for a win it makes shit a lot easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) In addition to super-progressive Feingold running worse than worse-candidate-ever Clinton in WI, Colorado single-payer got obliterated 80-20 in a state Clinton won easily, and Drug pricing lost in Cali. Cali is like D+30. This is the problem right now. Moderate liberals don’t feel like they need to move left. The difference was like 110,000 in WI, MI, PA, which is less than the popular vote margin (should widen as more CA votes counted). The Dem coalition as constructed is argubly still more popular, just inefficiently allocated (which is absolutely bad for presidential elections, sure. Not going to argue about Electoral College, but fwiw I'm on the side that it's inherently bad because some votes are worth more than others.). Clinton made headway in traditionally republican strongholds such as the suburbs to offset some of the expected attrition among millennials and minorities. Not enough to offset the more unexpected loss among rural voters clearly (again it's unclear imo that full blown socialism would have grabbed these). Additionally given how close it was, they can blame Comey, 3rd parties, wikileaks, voter supression, dismantling of unions, etc, and if self-aware, also overconfidence, Clinton’s lack of charisma, etc. Everything that may barely move the needle and normally thought to not matter in the big picture, may have mattered here. The ideology was fine, they can say, it was the message or candidate. However, the far (progressive or authoritarian/regressive/whatever) left is definitely not going to moderate as Trump just proved you could double down on a “fringe” ideology and win an election. The progressives are probably going to win the next primaries though, so we’ll see what happens. I know the conventional wisdom was completely upended by this election, but the adage that Ds fall in love (they didn't with Clinton), and Rs fall in line (they did with Trump) seems to have held, which suggests we just need a charismatic candidate. Edited November 12, 2016 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 All this talk about last names. Sheesh. Me and my immediate folks got some grief from living in an affordable housing complex being placed next to an incessantly rude neighbor as a result of my family name. NOT a thing I'm proud to have lived through as a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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