Excellen Browning Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 25 minutes ago, Radiant head said: this happened to russia in World War I, but the us isn't anywhere near that point or else Vietnam or Iraq would have been the breaking point What happened in Russia during the first world war was a little more complicated than an uprising to stop a wildly unpopular war. Though it certainly did help (along with the staggering death toll) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Perhaps I am overestimating some people's hatred of Trump. But I just can't see all those who protested against him to fight for a war that he caused, even if it is to protect their country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Water Mage said: Perhaps I am overestimating some people's hatred of Trump. But I just can't see all those who protested against him to fight for a war that he caused, even if it is to protect their country. That's also a small, and not representative, sample of the American population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Shit. You know what, fuck this. How much more of this are we going to have to hear about, for others to live through? This is ridiculous. What is it going to take until we decide he's in violation of the constitution? Trump has had multiple chances, and he blew them repeatedly. I'm legitimately worried about what's going to happen in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Ema Skye said: That's also a small, and not representative, sample of the American population. His approval ratings are also really low and will continue to sink. I think that even a war with China will be met with resistance by the people. EDIT: people are also not happy with the way Iraq turned out. Meanwhile, I just got an email from my department head stating "we stand by our students and will not change our acceptance requirements regardless of the executive order issued by President Trump." Edited January 29, 2017 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Sunwoo said: Shit. You know what, fuck this. How much more of this are we going to have to hear about, for others to live through? This is ridiculous. What is it going to take until we decide he's in violation of the constitution? Trump has had multiple chances, and he blew them repeatedly. I'm legitimately worried about what's going to happen in the near future. the problem is that people didn't really care when bush or obama more quietly violated civil liberties, so while trump is taking it to way more horrifying extents and is more brazen about it which is invoking all this backlash, he has precedents to defend it in court. https://theintercept.com/2017/01/28/trumps-muslim-ban-is-culmination-of-war-on-terror-mentality-but-still-uniquely-shameful also the protests at jfk last night gave me so much hope. hopefully more people realize this is how we fight back. Edited January 29, 2017 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 44 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: His approval ratings are also really low and will continue to sink. I think that even a war with China will be met with resistance by the people. EDIT: people are also not happy with the way Iraq turned out. Meanwhile, I just got an email from my department head stating "we stand by our students and will not change our acceptance requirements regardless of the executive order issued by President Trump." Last time I checked they were at 17%. It's very difficult to see it sink much lower to be honest. And this is equally scary to me on the account that people are now taking an "F-it, I do what I want" mentality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they are protecting the students, but it's disturbing in an overall sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Excellen Browning said: Civil war over a war? Don't be silly. The US have fought wildly unpopular wars before, even with conscription, and will do so again. They have, but not on U.S. soil. It's much easier to maintain a sense of cognitive dissonance and patriotism when the wars are happening in another land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, Augestein said: Last time I checked they were at 17%. It's very difficult to see it sink much lower to be honest. And this is equally scary to me on the account that people are now taking an "F-it, I do what I want" mentality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they are protecting the students, but it's disturbing in an overall sense. 17 is my lucky number. That may lead to good things then. I was actually thinking about your second point last night in the sense that I inevitably think this will be compared to "the president doesn't do what I want so I'm gonna bitch until he fixed it." Of course the nuance is that protest against unjustness is much different to petulance but I really do wonder how far some factions will take this. In the end that kind of attitude is necessary I guess, because when that mentality IS taken too far is when the government has to give into demands. Societal chaos is not something that the government wants and they cave into their demands. That's how stuff gets done; people have to take the lawlessness too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 personally I don't believe in any legitimacy of the current set of institutions, and trump's ascendancy already speaks a lot for their failure on every level to be some kind of fair governing system for the vast majority of people. they're also not capable of solving real problems like climate change. so I'm all for people resisting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Also re: the email in question Spoiler I'm confident that tomorrow the president will send out something, but our physics department is diverse in terms of international heritage so this was actually very very necessary from our grad director's point of view. Edited January 29, 2017 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Water Mage said: Perhaps I am overestimating some people's hatred of Trump. But I just can't see all those who protested against him to fight for a war that he caused, even if it is to protect their country. 2 hours ago, Augestein said: Last time I checked they were at 17%. It's very difficult to see it sink much lower to be honest. And this is equally scary to me on the account that people are now taking an "F-it, I do what I want" mentality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they are protecting the students, but it's disturbing in an overall sense. 17% approval rating? There's a range, but most have him in the high 30's to breaking even right now, with the average at 42%. RCP Trump Approval Average I think there is definite unrest, but I think claiming we're on the verge of civil war is an overstatement at this point. I think the best that can come from all this is a reduction in Executive Power that has been increasing over the past few decades, especially since 9/11. Bush really pushed it with the Patriot Act and Obama expanded it with his drone war. Judicial limiting of the president's power can hopefully shift things back to Congress actually being the ones who make law. The problem with continuing to focus power with one person is that eventually, you'll get someone you don't like in that office. Note: I understand it's a known issue, but posts are missing for me, it says there are two new replies, but if I hit the reminder or refresh, they still don't turn up. The thread got locked, so I don't know if there's been any updates regarding the issue. EDIT: It looks like the link I posted is a couple days old. Here's a more recent one. RCP Presidential Approval Rating 1/28/17 Edited January 29, 2017 by Rezzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) I'm not saying that the US is on the verge of civil war. I'm saying that if there ever is war because of Trump, it could lead to civil war. EDIT: Trump just issued a statement on the current controversy: "America is a proud nation of immigrants and we will continue to show compassion to those fleeing oppression, but we will do so while protecting our own citizens and border. America has always been the land of the free and home of the brave. We will keep it free and keep it safe, as the media knows, but refuses to say. My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror. To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting. This is not about religion — this is about terror and keeping our country safe. There are over 40 different countries worldwide that are majority Muslim that are not affected by this order. We will again be issuing visas to all countries once we are sure we have reviewed and implemented the most secure policies over the next 90 days. I have tremendous feeling for the people involved in this horrific humanitarian crisis in Syria. My first priority will always be to protect and serve our country, but as President I will find ways to help all those who are suffering." "This is not muslim ban" he says. Pardon me the language, but if this is not a muslim ban, then what the FUCK it is? He may say it's about terror, but what he's doing is pretty much the same as banning all christians from a country because of KKK. Edited January 29, 2017 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 57 minutes ago, Rezzy said: 17% approval rating? There's a range, but most have him in the high 30's to breaking even right now, with the average at 42%. RCP Trump Approval Average I think there is definite unrest, but I think claiming we're on the verge of civil war is an overstatement at this point. I think the best that can come from all this is a reduction in Executive Power that has been increasing over the past few decades, especially since 9/11. Bush really pushed it with the Patriot Act and Obama expanded it with his drone war. Judicial limiting of the president's power can hopefully shift things back to Congress actually being the ones who make law. The problem with continuing to focus power with one person is that eventually, you'll get someone you don't like in that office. Note: I understand it's a known issue, but posts are missing for me, it says there are two new replies, but if I hit the reminder or refresh, they still don't turn up. The thread got locked, so I don't know if there's been any updates regarding the issue. EDIT: It looks like the link I posted is a couple days old. Here's a more recent one. RCP Presidential Approval Rating 1/28/17 Good to know that the source I saw may have been incorrect. I hope so, because that's alarmingly bad otherwise. I don't really know. I've never been around for a civil war and I'm not very knowledgeable on civil wars in many other countries to be honest. But I definitely agree with this. I'm actually getting worried that people will become so angry that decide to assassinate over civil war. Both are terrible, but I really don't want to see a knee jerk reaction to an assassination attempt. It's happening for random things. I always seem to be sent backwards by two pages. Thanks for the approval rating update. I'm feeling tired from all of this because the local gym I work at people are just kinda glum about everything happening. I don't even think they care who is in office, they just want good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Sometimes I wonder if *I'm* the stupid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Augestein said: Good to know that the source I saw may have been incorrect. I hope so, because that's alarmingly bad otherwise. I don't really know. I've never been around for a civil war and I'm not very knowledgeable on civil wars in many other countries to be honest. But I definitely agree with this. I'm actually getting worried that people will become so angry that decide to assassinate over civil war. Both are terrible, but I really don't want to see a knee jerk reaction to an assassination attempt. It's happening for random things. I always seem to be sent backwards by two pages. Thanks for the approval rating update. I'm feeling tired from all of this because the local gym I work at people are just kinda glum about everything happening. I don't even think they care who is in office, they just want good news. The closest thing we have to any serious Civil War discussion is the Calexit thing, which even there doesn't have any serious support. It's similar to the Texit that's been discussed here and there, and South Carolina threatened to secede every few years. The US military is still behind the US government, so I don't see any attempted coup ever having a chance. Of all the presidential assassinations and attempts, they have all been by either lone crazy people or small groups of conspirators without serious backing. People who call for assassination are only hurting their cause, because we are still a democracy and loyal dissent is our way, not calls to violence. It's very hard to get as low as 17%, even Nixon stayed in the 20's during Watergate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 38 minutes ago, Rezzy said: The closest thing we have to any serious Civil War discussion is the Calexit thing, which even there doesn't have any serious support. It's similar to the Texit that's been discussed here and there, and South Carolina threatened to secede every few years. The US military is still behind the US government, so I don't see any attempted coup ever having a chance. Of all the presidential assassinations and attempts, they have all been by either lone crazy people or small groups of conspirators without serious backing. People who call for assassination are only hurting their cause, because we are still a democracy and loyal dissent is our way, not calls to violence. It's very hard to get as low as 17%, even Nixon stayed in the 20's during Watergate. Yeah. Texit is the only one I know about, and that's primarily because I used to see it all the time when visiting family. True enough. I can agree with this. I'd never condone for it. That I didn't know. I should look up more on Nixon. No one really wants to talk about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: Sometimes I wonder if *I'm* the stupid one. It's always funny when people take the Onion seriously. And in this case he had to both take the Onion seriously and also misread the article title. 7 minutes ago, Augestein said: Yeah. Texit is the only one I know about, and that's primarily because I used to see it all the time when visiting family. True enough. I can agree with this. I'd never condone for it. That I didn't know. I should look up more on Nixon. No one really wants to talk about him. Yeah, a lot of people only pay attention to modern times, without knowing much about even fairly recent history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Lord Raven said: Also re: the email in question Reveal hidden contents I'm confident that tomorrow the president will send out something, but our physics department is diverse in terms of international heritage so this was actually very very necessary from our grad director's point of view. I got a similar one too from my school. Granted I am an undergrad, but it had already affected our school. They detained the president of the Grad Student Organization when she came back from Iran. I think they let her go a few hours ago, but the unity behind bringing her back was great, and my feed was exploding with support. Sauce: http://pix11.com/2017/01/29/stony-brook-student-detained-at-jfk-under-trumps-refugee-travel-ban/ In the email that I got an hour ago, the president stated " During this 90-day period, we advise current international students or scholars from these countries not to travel outside the United States unless absolutely necessary." I find that really chilling, as much power as the guy has he may not be able to help his international students get back to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think the outcry of genuine support is heartwarming because I, among others, was given hell by many teachers and classmates during my formative years simply because I was religiously and culturally different, in general. Granted, Pakistan was not affected by any of these bans (though there were plenty of fears that they would be in some capacity), but seeing protests like at JFK and things like this Spoiler is pretty moving. We're not the most hated in this country but man at least Muslim kids growing up won't have to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yeah, we don't need more Neimoller's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Just what exactly are that 40%+ of people happy about again? Apparently the only 'safe' airport yesterday was Boston. SFO was pretty terrible. Seatec was pepper spraying protesters. Heard from numerous people (and some friends) that the protestors were being completely peaceful until chased and attacked by police. Neither of these airports let everyone through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 also this just happened http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-mosque-shooting-idUSKBN15E04S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: also this just happened http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-mosque-shooting-idUSKBN15E04S Prayers for those affected and their families. I wish we could all do our part to end the cycle of violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Rezzy said: Note: I understand it's a known issue, but posts are missing for me, it says there are two new replies, but if I hit the reminder or refresh, they still don't turn up. The thread got locked, so I don't know if there's been any updates regarding the issue. Maybe you missed this earlier in the thread. So, I'm going to quote you, and remind you of this. If I hear any more complaints of this nature in this thread, I start issuing warnings. Complaining about this issue wont' fix it, and the only thing anyone can do ATM is to sit and wait. This goes for EVERYONE that posts in this thread. In other words, BE PATIENT, WE KNOW IT'S AN ISSUE, AND THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. 22 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: also this just happened http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-mosque-shooting-idUSKBN15E04S I hope they catch whoever did this. Actions speak louder than words, and no place of peaceful worship deserves to be fired upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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