XRay Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) It just makes me mad that my hometown's downtown is getting trashed by rioters and looters. The Sac Bee might have a paywall, so here is another link and another link by other local news organizations. I am all for peaceful protests, but I think we will be better off if we make a strong distinction between protestors and rioters/looters. Rioters and looters are not honoring the memory of George Floyd and the police should not hesitate to use force to deal with these criminals. Maybe civilians and business owners can set up a neighborhood watch or something as a first line of defense at night, so they can buy some time until the police can arrive on the scene. Setting up a temporary curfew in downtowns and affected areas of cities might also be a good idea. People can protest all they want during the day, but once night falls and protestors go home, the police should have not have to restrain themselves when dealing with these animals. 58 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: They tagged along to co-opt it. More and more is coming out showing that the looters are co-opting the movement to do their own shit. Seattle's Mayor called them all out. Just because someone tells you to rob someone does not mean you should. Like how dumb do people have to be in order for them rob someone or drink bleach when someone else tells them too? These rioters and looters should still be held liable and prosecuted with no mercy. If any white criminals are instigating arson and looting, they should be given no mercy either and they should pay with their livelihoods. 58 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: Everyone would rather he not. It is indeed best if he just shut the hell up and let anyone else in his cabinet handle it, but this dumbass cannot stand another person taking the spotlight away from him either, so nothing is getting done. You like Fauci calming and reassuring the nation? Well too bad, Trump does not like him taking that spotlight, so we are back to overdosing on drugs and congratulating ourselves for being the number one country in COVID-19 death count. 53 minutes ago, eclipse said: I like how Trump thinks this is all Antifa's fault, without touching on the rumors that there's some bad actors among the alt-right. Seems like there are bad apples on both sides. Hope the bad apples remain a minority, but the damage they cause is getting disproportionately large. Like, I want my police department to be soft on protestors but be hard on rioters/looters, but it seems like they are having trouble distinguishing the two. I cannot really blame the police for being a bit slow to act either because if they act too fast and too tough, there is a chance it may cause even more riots even if they are only being hard against rioters/looters. Edited June 1, 2020 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, XRay said: Just because someone tells you to rob someone does not mean you should. Like how dumb do people have to be in order for them rob someone or drink bleach when someone else tells them too? These rioters and looters should still be held liable and prosecuted with no mercy. If any white criminals are instigating arson and looting, they should be given no mercy either and they should pay with their livelihoods. what does this have to do with the protest, then, if they're a separate party it's pretty clearly not from their movement, and expecting black protesters to take responsibility for what white people do is insane EDIT: i legit don't know what this has to do with my point right now Edited June 1, 2020 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, XRay said: Seems like there are bad apples on both sides. Hope the bad apples remain a minority, but the damage they cause is getting disproportionately large. Like, I want my police department to be soft on protestors but be hard on rioters/looters, but it seems like they are having trouble distinguishing the two. I cannot really blame the police for being a bit slow to act either because if they act too fast and too tough, there is a chance it may cause even more riots even if they are only being hard against rioters/looters. The issue is that Trump is fucking with the narrative. It's yet another disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: what does this have to do with the protest, then, if they're a separate party it's pretty clearly not from their movement, and expecting black protesters to take responsibility for what white people do is insane EDIT: i legit don't know what this has to do with my point right now If a black protestor becomes a rioter/looter, they are fully responsible for rioting and looting. They are not children with no agency of their own who does whatever mom and pop says. Not all protesters are arsoning and looting, but minority of them are being idiots and criminals. White people who are instigating riots and looting should not be let off the hook either and they should be prosecuted as criminals as well. It just seems to me that you are trying to justify the actions of rioters and looters because they are frustrated and angry. Just because somebody is frustrated and angry does not mean they have the right to act out their tantrum on innocent people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewyn Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Justin Amash is going to introduce a new bill in congress that removes Qualified Immunity from police. This seems like a real longshot to pass, but it would make it much easier to hold police accountable. He put it on his twitter. https://i.redd.it/otxkj7h1e7251.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, XRay said: If a black protestor becomes a rioter/looter, they are fully responsible for rioting and looting. They are not children with no agency of their own who does whatever mom and pop says. Not all protesters are arsoning and looting, but minority of them are being idiots and criminals. White people who are instigating riots and looting should not be let off the hook either and they should be prosecuted as criminals as well. We agree. Quote It just seems to me that you are trying to justify the actions of rioters and looters because they are frustrated and angry. Just because somebody is frustrated and angry does not mean they have the right to act out their tantrum on innocent people. You're misrepresenting me. What do you think of places like Target, Walmart, CVS, etc? Do you think of them as your local convenience store? Black community disagrees, and in the first case where they were looting Target, that particular Target was a) a hotspot for MPD, b) a place that displaced a lot of black homes, c) a black that destroyed a lot of black business. Similar idea for Walmart, CVS, etc. These companies can take it, too. In fact, Target is less outraged than you on this: https://corporate.target.com/article/2020/05/supporting-communities-minnesota-beyond. Those people can take the hit, those people are paying for their employees' jobs. In fact, they're temporarily shutting places down for safety. I'm not justifying extraneous looting. But I, myself, have made it a point to completely avoid CVS for everything but medications, and I have shopped in target/Walmart once or twice per year for the last 6 years for precisely these reasons. I'm also giving the cold hard truth of some of these being collateral damage because... well, the police escalated it on innocent protesters. Truth be told, this is why people are calling out those that are outraged at the looters; the police are escalating every single protest (or they are doing the vast majority of the severe escalation) that would become violent. The protesters themselves aren't looting in response, people are just going in and looting under the guise of the protesters, and some are straight up trying to co-opt it just to add a sense of bad faith. And truth be told... these aren't the times for peace. Our government is sitting on a pandemic they refuse to do anything about, 25+ million unemployed and rising, the worst economy in literal fucking ages, and multiple black people were shot by the police just this month / year. Many of the protesters really don't have much left to lose right now, either... even McConnell throwing them a bone with coronavirus aid would do something. But as it stands, our government fucking sucks, and frankly everyone's fucked and everyone's tired of the sheer incompetence of this administration, on top of their hatefulness, divisiveness, and racism. It's fallen on deaf ears or downplayed constantly, and now these are highlighting the brutality. You can criticism the looting and everything, but detach the narrative of the movement from the looting. The movement is trying to avoid the looting, and you can see that plenty of protesters are actively reporting the looters to the cops, calling out the looters, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: What do you think of places like Target, Walmart, CVS, etc? Do you think of them as your local convenience store? Black community disagrees, and in the first case where they were looting Target, that particular Target was a) a hotspot for MPD, b) a place that displaced a lot of black homes, c) a black that destroyed a lot of black business. Similar idea for Walmart, CVS, etc. These companies can take it, too. In fact, Target is less outraged than you on this: https://corporate.target.com/article/2020/05/supporting-communities-minnesota-beyond. Those people can take the hit, those people are paying for their employees' jobs. In fact, they're temporarily shutting places down for safety. I do not see them as local small/medium family owned businesses, but they are still businesses in the local area and have been contributing to the local economy through jobs and taxes. Although I am not worried about them taking a hit, I still do not think it is right for rioters and looters to take out a store. Target cannot just brush off a customer just because a customer is a police officer. While it is not right for businesses to unfairly displace black people out of their homes, I am assuming Target compensated for the land that it sits on fairly, or else the seller would not have sold the land. As for destroying other businesses, destroying sounds like a loaded word, so it depends on how the person dealt with other businesses; if it was through fair and square outcompeting other businesses, then I do not see there is anything wrong with his Target; if he was sabotaging other businesses through blackmail, frivolous lawsuits, or whatever, then I guess rioting and looting sounds more justifiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I know it's Twitter, but this is almost mind-numbing to me. I love how they're going after Biden at a time like this, while the President is allegedly hiding in a bunker in the White House with its lights turned off. At least Biden is apparently out and actually speaking with protesters, instead of tucked away in a room, screaming over his phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Dai said: I know it's Twitter, but this is almost mind-numbing to me. I love how they're going after Biden at a time like this, while the President is allegedly hiding in a bunker in the White House with its lights turned off. At least Biden is apparently out and actually speaking with protesters, instead of tucked away in a room, screaming over his phone. It's also 100000000000000% false LMAO https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/politics/joe-biden-delaware-protests/index.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/politics/joe-biden-george-floyd.html He's been very good through all this. Edited June 1, 2020 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Republicans and fox don't give a fucking shit about the truth or reality and haven't since Obama becoming president broke their brains. edit: actually, you know what, have a bunch of tweets from the protests today. https://twitter.com/SarahMertan/status/1267208675753517056 https://twitter.com/SophiaLeeHyun/status/1267216604388978689 https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1267230274468929537 https://twitter.com/MnDPS_DPS/status/1267237995477970945 https://twitter.com/TheStolenBeer/status/1267093331449909248?s=20 https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1267264305961066500 https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1267262300919980032 https://twitter.com/mr_blue_sky_ii/status/1266630635956789248?s=21 https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/1267213808642252807 https://twitter.com/illustriousCeo/status/1267251957003149313?s=20 https://twitter.com/Chopper4Brad/status/1267285662480371712 https://twitter.com/MrEricAngelo/status/1267295971664371712 https://twitter.com/MayorJenny/status/1267244230730113024 https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/1267296290674704384?s=19 https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1267308286119940099 https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1267314560886808581 https://twitter.com/JessicaHuseman/status/1267306486960717824 https://twitter.com/JessicaHuseman/status/1267307790122594304 https://twitter.com/JessicaHuseman/status/1267306737201274880 https://twitter.com/sweetenerjoy/status/1267184600268275716 https://twitter.com/alexmimeur/status/1267266930391515136 https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1267005812444037122?s=20 https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1267336271288053766 https://twitter.com/cwellborn3/status/1267318753571811329 https://twitter.com/channiescloud_/status/1267333317927395329 tl;dr: cops having a normal, bunch of white trash responsible for wanton violence, protests kicking off around the world. Edited June 1, 2020 by Excellen Browning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Excellen Browning said: *snip* I've only seen the FBI flex, but that is literally amazing. I admire that dude. Edit: It's quite a sight seeing how many people are enjoying all the chaos and destruction-and a few where the cops are actually feeling empowered getting to cause mayhem and actually assault citizens. It's...nauseating. Edited June 1, 2020 by Dai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Notice how conservative white america just went from "making me stay home is tyranny!" to "if there's a curfew and you're outside, police can do whatever they want to you" in like...a week... Edited June 1, 2020 by Shoblongoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 37 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said: Notice how conservative white america just went from "making me stay home is tyranny!" to "if there's a curfew and you're outside, police can do whatever they want to you" in like...a week... Well there is a very noticeable difference. The former inconveniences them personally for a little bit. The later is a hurdle for people that aren't them and is thus completely fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I really have no idea how we'll make it to November let alone 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Also tells you everything you need to know about our priorities in this country that we have officers in every city in America looking like ROBO-cop right now, with all the riot gear in their armories. And doctors and nurses in COVID units using garbage bags as PPE. Edited June 1, 2020 by Shoblongoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strullemia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Gotta give Biden some credit here. Corona didn't suddenly dissapear, him going out to talk with the protesters shows goodwill especially when you realize just how old the guy is and how dangerous the disease would be for someone like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, Strullemia said: Gotta give Biden some credit here. Corona didn't suddenly dissapear, him going out to talk with the protesters shows goodwill especially when you realize just how old the guy is and how dangerous the disease would be for someone like him. That makes you wonder. What would end up happening if Biden did end up catching corona and passing away before the election. What would happen then? Has such a thing ever happened in an American election before? Would the Democrats need to rush and get another candidate on short notice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Biden right now is demonstrating the fundamental difference in character that makes him suitable for high office, and Trump fundamentally unfit. A man who can't speak to a nation in pain has no business leading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: That makes you wonder. What would end up happening if Biden did end up catching corona and passing away before the election. What would happen then? Has such a thing ever happened in an American election before? Would the Democrats need to rush and get another candidate on short notice? Pretty much, if they pass away before the candidate accepts the nomination. I think that's what happened when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated before he got the chance. In the 1982 election the Democratic candidate died between the general election and the casting of electoral votes but since he had lost the popular vote it didn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewyn Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Trump is fundamentally unfit, but this is no surprise was known well before he became president. However you still have a large portion of people thinking he is the greatest president ever, higher than Lincoln. While this baby is hiding in his bunker, yeah Biden is greeting protesters, meeting mayors, speaking. Trump won't even make a public address from the White House, just tweets some dumb talking points "Law and order!" "Loot shoot" "Only good democrat is a dead democrat!" I know it is wrong, but I'm much more angry at his followers for either their stupidity, bigotry, or whatever. Much more angry at Fox news, OAN, right wing media and their brainwashing, conspiracy theory, alternate realities. Trump is a sack of shit with not a single good quality as a human being or a president, but what about the people that voted for him? What about the right wing media and their misinformation/lies campaign? What about the spineless GOP who worship trump like this is ancient Egypt and he is Pharaoh? Let's take it to the extreme about a leader's loyal followers who put him into power and the leader. Say Ted Bundy had run for president and won. Well we could bash him all we want, but wouldn't the people who voted for him be just as worthy of our ire if not more so? So if Trump is unfit, immoral, racist/sexist bigot corrupt monster and he is elected and likely re elected should not his followers, the right wing media, the GOP senate all receive just as much hate if not more so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strullemia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: That makes you wonder. What would end up happening if Biden did end up catching corona and passing away before the election. What would happen then? Has such a thing ever happened in an American election before? Would the Democrats need to rush and get another candidate on short notice? I've actually wondered that myself. I would hope that in such a situation the domcrats and/or Biden put forward another candidate before his death but would they even have the time to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: That makes you wonder. What would end up happening if Biden did end up catching corona and passing away before the election. What would happen then? Has such a thing ever happened in an American election before? Would the Democrats need to rush and get another candidate on short notice? Robert Kennedy's assassination comes to mind, happening at this precise time of year in the 1968 election. Though it's hard to say how assured his victory was in the primary process as he had been campaigning for less than three months, and the process of states awarding their delegate votes happened almost entirely behind the scenes back then in an un-democratic process that I honestly don't much understand the details of. Only 12-ish states held popular vote elections. The nomination that year went to a guy who didn't win a single primary. In fact, the 1968 election is the reason why the DNC shifted its primaries to the system we have today. As for a more concise answer to your question, I imagine the DNC would just nominate Sanders in August. He's the only other candidate that won a meaningful amount of votes. There wouldn't be any barrier to his accepting of the nomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Infinitive Exitus Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Violence is gay and stupid. Be it by <arbitrary individual> or <arbitrary collective>. When its necessary it is so only in cases in which "Harm" is done against ones self and there is no other way to stop "Harm". The Question is "who and what determines what "Harm" is?" Usually its "the law" or "the Rules", but a lot of people don't agree with the law, especially if they think, that there is more "Harm" being done to them, than the law is doing with their action to prevent it, especially especially, when the ones who "made the law" are ignorant about the details this "supposedly harmful act" contains, because the lawmakers look at an arbitrary result or a series of arbitrary results associated with that action. At the same time, lawmakers might see, that the specific action being taken by the individuals causes "no harm" under their circumstance but still choose to be against it, because there is greater harm done in allowing the practice, than to keep an arbitrary collective acting "harmlessly". In some cases there will be made an exception, in which the individuals who "know what they are doing", will be allowed to continue practicing under a license, as long as they have shown that they are trusted enough not to cause harm. The lawmakers, as well as executioners of said law are appointed by the people. Whatever the result may be, the best way to change it, is to look for a way within the current laws to exist, they exist for a reason and if you think, that the way the law works "harms" more than it protects, you need to show that. Sometimes a law is so ineffective or counterintuitive in execution in trying to protect something, that it completely ruins something else, that the society is based on, in which case the something else-ers will go against the law. Now, why am i saying this? I think everyone is retarded and too bothered by ongoing events seemingly everyone has an opinion about, whether they can do something about them or not, because "something" is making them care about it, even if they are not affected by it in any significant way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) your post and my reaction are consistent with your location, ignoring the fact that you used "gay" and the r slur as a pejorative, let me take a swing 1 hour ago, Perfect Infinitive Exitus said: Whatever the result may be, the best way to change it, is to look for a way within the current laws to exist, they exist for a reason and if you think, that the way the law works "harms" more than it protects, you need to show that. It's been shown for 50 years. People ignored it. What's so difficult about this? Violence is the language of the oppressor, and it's the only language that the oppressor understands. 1 hour ago, Perfect Infinitive Exitus said: I think everyone is retarded and too bothered by ongoing events seemingly everyone has an opinion about, whether they can do something about them or not, because "something" is making them care about it, even if they are not affected by it in any significant way. Allowing the police to brutally enforce laws towards an "out-community" and to safely enforce laws towards an "in-community" is a universal problem. There's actually a million and one ways the success of this protest benefits society as a whole, rather than just black people, but since you're so convinced that people are virtue signalling I won't go into it unless you... change your rhetoric a lot. But I will say that this is personal to me and I'd be fighting alongside the protesters if my home situation weren't precarious. Edited June 1, 2020 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Lewyn said: Trump is fundamentally unfit, but this is no surprise was known well before he became president. However you still have a large portion of people thinking he is the greatest president ever, higher than Lincoln. While this baby is hiding in his bunker, yeah Biden is greeting protesters, meeting mayors, speaking. Trump won't even make a public address from the White House, just tweets some dumb talking points "Law and order!" "Loot shoot" "Only good democrat is a dead democrat!" I know it is wrong, but I'm much more angry at his followers for either their stupidity, bigotry, or whatever. Much more angry at Fox news, OAN, right wing media and their brainwashing, conspiracy theory, alternate realities. Trump is a sack of shit with not a single good quality as a human being or a president, but what about the people that voted for him? The fact that Trump has done absolutely nothing to deserve the zealous loyalty of his base makes it extra frustrating. Demagogue strongman are all consistently terrible but unlike Trump most do have some sort of merit that might cause them to gain the loyalty of their base. I don't respect our homegrown populists but there are things Wilders has said and done that are more or less respectable, and I can at least understand that the pseudo philosophical drivel of Baudet might impress people who aren't all that smart. I can understand why people might be taken in by Farage's charm, why they think Erdogan and Putin made their countries recover from a deep decline or why Le Pen would make an effective leader. But Trump doesn't have any of that. He has always been known as a fraud and has a long history of being an openly corrupt businessman. That Trump has nothing in common with the common man and has repeatedly scammed the working class can't be denied yet its within those people that he has the most fanatical support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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