Will this game get patched?

[Landmaster]

Yes, I saw his Nohr Prince, White Blood, and Dark Blood freeze up during the Treehouse footage, as well as during the class roll.

I haven't seen any Magic Animations, but it's sad they didn't re-use Awakenings...

Does anyone have footage of the magic animations.. ?

I believe they threw away most of their budget on FE-Amie... :(

Here's some magic animations~ I don't know about the spells themselves, but the Sorcerer animations look pretty dope to me~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U22XZd6DPHw

This is about the most footage of the game that I've seen, btw, so I have no idea what any other magic looks like regarding if they're similar or not (or any other weapon, tbh)~

Edited July 28, 2015 by Landmaster

[Minischew]

Here's some magic animations~ I don't know about the spells themselves, but the Sorcerer animations look pretty dope to me~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U22XZd6DPHw

This is about the most footage of the game that I've seen, btw, so I have no idea what any other magic looks like regarding if they're similar or not (or any other weapon, tbh)~

Wait wait. Apologies for derailing, but around 0:52, Ophelia says a critical quote. I don't recognize that one from the Parents and Child clip, which only had 3 quotes for Ophelia... so I'm assuming that it's pretty much confirmed that each person has 4 quotes?

(Also, what's she saying?)

[Othin]

But the whole feet issue wasn't really an animation glitch/error.

The ones that I, as well as others, pointed out, like some Dark Fliers lacking wings, Kamui freezing, etc. are animation glitches that can and should be fixed. It's not like they are redoing the animations.

Yeah there's a big difference between clipping where it looks bad but it's appearing as the devs expected, and Dark Falcon wings where something they expected to show up just doesn't.

[nocturnal YL]

(Also, what's she saying?)

乙女の本気よ！

Something along the lines of "This young lady is (I am) getting serious", though it's hard to express it in plain English. "This is the true power of a maiden!", perhaps?

[Landmaster]

Wait wait. Apologies for derailing, but around 0:52, Ophelia says a critical quote. I don't recognize that one from the Parents and Child clip, which only had 3 quotes for Ophelia... so I'm assuming that it's pretty much confirmed that each person has 4 quotes?

(Also, what's she saying?)

Tbh, I noticed that, too~ And, Nocturnal YL's translation is pretty accurate. I got "This maiden is getting serious!" when I heard it the first time (I only know so many Japanese words I can recognize by ear).

I've noticed that a couple of characters seem to have 4 quotes (Kaze/Midoriko, Flannel/Velour), while others have 3, so perhaps maybe they just haven't gotten them all? Or some may really only have 3 and some have 4.

[arvilino]

Yeah there's a big difference between clipping where it looks bad but it's appearing as the devs expected, and Dark Falcon wings where something they expected to show up just doesn't.

I 've been thinking about it and it seems the reason the Dark Falcon Wings don't show up is because when Daniela reclasses to Dark Falcon she's still riding the Strategist horse. I'm guessing it's an oversight where she's uses the Strategist model with the Dark Falcon animations.

[DIO]

The problem with all the cliping (hair, pieces of armor, clothing, tails) is that it's straight out unprofesional and lazy, not to mention that it was a problem in the previous game so I highly doubt they aren't aware of it happening with the engine.

The hair is particularly outragerous as it isn't even a very complicated model, it's just this huge sticked togueter thing (although Aqua's does moves more than the rest, but as Aquaze mentioned she's literally Cliping: The Experience), diferenciating it's skeleton so it doesn't pass trough the body shouldn't be more than a routine for a profesional team which had already worked with the engine in the past.

I would understand if it was something like a character hitting with a range 1 animation from afar if when it was going to attack it reached the end of the fight area in middle of the animation which teleports it back to the other end (like this) and it's honestly an understandable problem as you can't make it go infinitevely, but all the cliping is just lazyness from the team who worked with the models and animations.

Clipping is a sad reality of games; it's the limitations that occur between artistic direction and practical simulation. the only way you're not gonna get clipping at all is to make a game with circles, and even then you're not guaranteed...

The reason that the Awakening characters don't have feet is because they thought that a 3DS cart had less memory capacity than it actually does. They could have easily added feet in a post-release patch, but they didn't bother, just as they won't be issuing a patch to fix this game.

All N64 games have clipping issues, not just ones made by IS.

...Have you ever worked on a character model or animated for a game? Let me tell you how 'easy' it would be.

First there's the model itself, which constitutes reforming the geometry to make the feet, making minor tweaks to the proportions in order to offset any visible imbanace. Next will be to redo the UVS; which means redoing any maps (textures or 'colors' essentially) that the models use. I don't exactly know what kind of maps they used for FE;A, but one thing's certain is that they used a diffuse, and they might've used a normal (a map that cheats elevation information without using extra polygons) and a specular (a map that simulates how light interacts with the object). that's not including things like gloss or Ambient Occlusion. Finally, the diffuse texture needs to be remade to include the feet, which would mean that some areas would need to have their detail level sacrificed in order to properly allow for the included geometry.

THAT'S THE EASY PART.

The second, BIG step would be to rework the rigging system (a skeletal system of joints that allows the model to deform, essentially granting animation ability.). using the existing skeleton that terminates at the knees, you need at least three more joints per leg; one for the ankle, one for the ball of your foot, and one for the toes. That alone will give you access to a basic level of foot motion, but you need more if you want to grant the full motion of the foot; at least two more joints on either side of the foot, allowing you to angle the foot and allow for compensation of terrain or pose. Next part is adding special systems called the IK/FK, which creates a link between two joints in order to better accommodate for motion; the first one would be between the hip and the ankle, giving you the smooth motion of bending your leg, and the next one would be between the ankle and the toe, giving you the same motion. Creating 'handles' (essentially special curves or shapes that don't render but can control the model, specially made so that dedicated animators don't need to futz around with the geometry) occurs at around the same time, but are relatively less intensive. third would be to combine the joints and the handles together via constraints (giving one object (ie; the handle) dominance over another) or parenting (same process, but has a different read-out in the graphical outliner). Last step is to bind the joint system to the model as a 'skin', and cleaning up any loose ends like polygons moving to the wrong joint. FUN FACT; if ANY of these steps are not completely locked down (all your 'transformations' frozen (reverted to zero), your pivots EXACTLY where you need them to be, and your hierarchy (the breakdown of what controls what and how it responds to each element), you need to revert back to STEP ONE.

Third step is animation; redoing every single animation the models do in the game in order to compensate for the new range of motion...not a hard task on its own, but multiply it by A; the number of characters, B; the number of 'class' models, and C; the different factors of terrain, and you have it all pile up really damn fast.

Last step is importing your new work into the engine, and let me tell you something from experience; You better pray the engine was made with liberties in mind, or you are F**KED. Your engine needs to be able to configure that it's using a whole new set of complex systems for advanced animations, higher-detailed models, and keep it's processes running smoothly to not tank the frame rate.

ALL of this is best case scenario; no reprints or rejections due to tweaks, no catastrophic crashes due to acts of god, no factors of budget or workload, no factors of major corruption, nothing like that...

So yeah; real F**KING easy...

[Leif]

Clipping is a sad reality of games; it's the limitations that occur between artistic direction and practical simulation. the only way you're not gonna get clipping at all is to make a game with circles, and even then you're not guaranteed...

...Have you ever worked on a character model or animated for a game? Let me tell you how 'easy' it would be.

First there's the model itself, which constitutes reforming the geometry to make the feet, making minor tweaks to the proportions in order to offset any visible imbanace. Next will be to redo the UVS; which means redoing any maps (textures or 'colors' essentially) that the models use. I don't exactly know what kind of maps they used for FE;A, but one thing's certain is that they used a diffuse, and they might've used a normal (a map that cheats elevation information without using extra polygons) and a specular (a map that simulates how light interacts with the object). that's not including things like gloss or Ambient Occlusion. Finally, the diffuse texture needs to be remade to include the feet, which would mean that some areas would need to have their detail level sacrificed in order to properly allow for the included geometry.

THAT'S THE EASY PART.

The second, BIG step would be to rework the rigging system (a skeletal system of joints that allows the model to deform, essentially granting animation ability.). using the existing skeleton that terminates at the knees, you need at least three more joints per leg; one for the ankle, one for the ball of your foot, and one for the toes. That alone will give you access to a basic level of foot motion, but you need more if you want to grant the full motion of the foot; at least two more joints on either side of the foot, allowing you to angle the foot and allow for compensation of terrain or pose. Next part is adding special systems called the IK/FK, which creates a link between two joints in order to better accommodate for motion; the first one would be between the hip and the ankle, giving you the smooth motion of bending your leg, and the next one would be between the ankle and the toe, giving you the same motion. Creating 'handles' (essentially special curves or shapes that don't render but can control the model, specially made so that dedicated animators don't need to futz around with the geometry) occurs at around the same time, but are relatively less intensive. third would be to combine the joints and the handles together via constraints (giving one object (ie; the handle) dominance over another) or parenting (same process, but has a different read-out in the graphical outliner). Last step is to bind the joint system to the model as a 'skin', and cleaning up any loose ends like polygons moving to the wrong joint. FUN FACT; if ANY of these steps are not completely locked down (all your 'transformations' frozen (reverted to zero), your pivots EXACTLY where you need them to be, and your hierarchy (the breakdown of what controls what and how it responds to each element), you need to revert back to STEP ONE.

Third step is animation; redoing every single animation the models do in the game in order to compensate for the new range of motion...not a hard task on its own, but multiply it by A; the number of characters, B; the number of 'class' models, and C; the different factors of terrain, and you have it all pile up really damn fast.

Last step is importing your new work into the engine, and let me tell you something from experience; You better pray the engine was made with liberties in mind, or you are F**KED. Your engine needs to be able to configure that it's using a whole new set of complex systems for advanced animations, higher-detailed models, and keep it's processes running smoothly to not tank the frame rate.

ALL of this is best case scenario; no reprints or rejections due to tweaks, no catastrophic crashes due to acts of god, no factors of budget or workload, no factors of major corruption, nothing like that...

So yeah; real F**KING easy...

I know this post was related to the whole FE13 lacking feet issue, but (since you seem to have animation programming knowledge), would it be just as hard to fix some of the animation glitches noted?

[DIO]

I know this post was related to the whole FE13 lacking feet issue, but (since you seem to have animation programming knowledge), would it be just as hard to fix some of the animation glitches noted?

Depends. Either they'd just have to redo the animations (which is third step on my breakdown), or they'd have to go back to rigging or god help them; modeling. However, without knowing the actual internal process for their animations, It's hard for me to exactly guess; only base off of what I know and what I've experienced.

[Othin]

The Dark Falcon thing and breathing thing both sound like cases of the right animations existing but not showing up.

Clipping is another story. It seems like the parts of a model are each designed to do their own set thing with no way to tell if they're overlapping another part and nothing to do about it if they did. I don't know much about animation, but that sounds like it'd take a huge amount of work to fix.

[Leif]

So, in another topic, there was a patch that was released today. It seems like it didn't change any of the animations, but this could hint at more patches coming in the future, perhaps?

Though, could that mean the localized version would include this patch upon release?

[Psyruby]

So, in another topic, there was a patch that was released today. It seems like it didn't change any of the animations, but this could hint at more patches coming in the future, perhaps?

Though, could that mean the localized version would include this patch upon release?

Yes, usually Nintendo releases the game in Japan before patches, and then the patches are already installed for US.

[Dark Sage]

The reason why clipping happens in this game and in Awakening is because the models are, for the most part generic. Most of the clipping (in Awakening anyway) usually occurs when the character is not in their base class. The character's reclass model is a headswap of a generic model, which makes it impossible for the animators and modelers to avoid clipping issues. I never particularly liked how they handled reclassing and character models since it looks really cheap, especially in stills (where it looks like a bad photoshop).

Mind you, there's no excuse for stuff like Aqua's clipping (since her class is unique and thus, her model should be properly rigged to avoid these issues) or stuff like the Pegasus Knight critical animation, where the knight's lance clips through the wings. That is definitely laziness.

It's worth noting that the Tellius games had almost no clipping, if any at all, and this was because the characters either used a recolor of a generic model (almost everyone in PoR) or used a unique model (Soren and the thieves in PoR, everyone in RD). This allowed them to reuse animations without the problems Awakening has, especially since reclassing didn't exist, so they'd be able to custom build the model in such a way that they'd fit that character's class animation rigs.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Dark Sage

[Leif]

The reason why clipping happens in this game and in Awakening is because the models are, for the most part generic. Most of the clipping (in Awakening anyway) usually occurs when the character is not in their base class. The character's reclass model is a headswap of a generic model, which makes it impossible for the animators and modelers to avoid clipping issues. I never particularly liked how they handled reclassing and character models since it looks really cheap, especially in stills (where it looks like a bad photoshop).

Mind you, there's no excuse for stuff like Aqua's clipping (since her class is unique and thus, her model should be properly rigged to avoid these issues) or stuff like the Pegasus Knight critical animation, where the knight's lance clips through the wings. That is definitely laziness.

It's worth noting that the Tellius games had almost no clipping, if any at all, and this was because the characters either used a recolor of a generic model (almost everyone in PoR) or used a unique model (Soren and the thieves in PoR, everyone in RD). This allowed them to reuse animations without the problems Awakening has, especially since reclassing didn't exist, so they'd be able to custom build the model in such a way that they'd fit that character's class animation rigs.

Yeah, the clipping issue won't be fixed, that's for sure. I'd just hope they would improve some minor glitches, like the Male!Kamui breathing animation freeze, because it was intended to be there, as Othin pointed out earlier.

I also found out that Elize's braids stick up towards the sky when she dies in battle. These things should be fixed because they look glitchy, thus making the game look unpolished.

This is from the Treehouse footage:

https://youtu.be/dhVGxG9F9Kc?t=27m24s

I remember getting angry when I played Shadow Dragon and noticing that female sages lacked a proper cape billowing animation. The intended looping animation, as seen for male sages, was off since the cape would drop down then suddenly jump right back up again.

I don't understand how things like this could be missed, especially since the same problem was in New Mystery.

Honestly, PoR and RD had the best 3D battle animations, more so in RD's case since there wasn't much clipping, as you mentioned.

I hope that these minor graphical issues are addressed, since I can't imagine they would be too hard to remedy.

EDIT:

After re-watching the Treehouse footage, I noticed that the 2D overworld sprites DON'T have special cursor animations like in Awakening! They don't do a little dance or swing their arms when the cursor is over them...

IS keeps taking SO many short cuts.. :(

Edited July 29, 2015 by Leif

[Dark Sage]

The animations in PoR are tbf really stiff and robotic, which is understandable since this was the first time 3d models were even used in the series. The animations for RD are a lot better (I prefer them over the 3DS FEs), it's just people don't like them because the models are kind of low res, though they do look better in motion. The map models in Tellius are rather primitive (N64 level quality) but they take a zoomed out view for them, and it's just more appropriate for simplfied map models for that kind of game. I never got why Awakening and Fates were said to have good production views, the models are pretty low poly and low-res and there are a lot of amateur mistakes regarding clipping, animations, etc.

[arvilino]

Honestly, PoR and RD had the best 3D battle animations, more so in RD's case since there wasn't much clipping, as you mentioned.

I hope that these minor graphical issues are addressed, since I can't imagine they would be too hard to remedy.

Have you taken a recent look the RD animations though they're kind of bizarre in the way they try to avoid clipping. Capes, Robes and Hair only bend outwards and upwards and come to a dead halt hovering away from the body, characters ontop of mounts only move slightly when attacking, Pegasi are twice the size of the Fates ones to accomodate someone holding a lance between the wings and the attacks of most classes are minimal in movement(compare the Halberdier attack animations to the Fates Lancer).

The designs and the animations took a hit just to avoid clipping. I'd honestly say the 3DS models and animation ones are actually a lot better despite being on a less powerful system as a result of not worrying about clipping.

[eharper256]

According to GameFAQs, the new patch includes revisions such as a UI change(don't know what), cut-in skipping, arena skipping, and various anti-cheat measures for PvP. Anyone know anything more about these details?

[..-. --.-]

According to GameFAQs, the new patch includes revisions such as a UI change(don't know what), cut-in skipping, arena skipping, and various anti-cheat measures for PvP. Anyone know anything more about these details?

Could you link this?

[eharper256]

Could you link this?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/114533-fire-emblem-fates-conquest/72238564

[BrightBow]

According to GameFAQs, the new patch includes revisions such as a UI change(don't know what), cut-in skipping, arena skipping, and various anti-cheat measures for PvP. Anyone know anything more about these details?

Oh my gosh, I so hope that at least this one is true.

Edited July 29, 2015 by BrightBow

[Minischew]

According to GameFAQs, the new patch includes revisions such as a UI change(don't know what), cut-in skipping, arena skipping, and various anti-cheat measures for PvP. Anyone know anything more about these details?

What exactly is cut-in skipping?

[The DanMan]

What exactly is cut-in skipping?

Turning off critical/skill proc cut-ins.

[DIO]

Yeah, the clipping issue won't be fixed, that's for sure. I'd just hope they would improve some minor glitches, like the Male!Kamui breathing animation freeze, because it was intended to be there, as Othin pointed out earlier.

I also found out that Elize's braids stick up towards the sky when she dies in battle. These things should be fixed because they look glitchy, thus making the game look unpolished.

This is from the Treehouse footage:

https://youtu.be/dhVGxG9F9Kc?t=27m24s

I remember getting angry when I played Shadow Dragon and noticing that female sages lacked a proper cape billowing animation. The intended looping animation, as seen for male sages, was off since the cape would drop down then suddenly jump right back up again.

I don't understand how things like this could be missed, especially since the same problem was in New Mystery.

Honestly, PoR and RD had the best 3D battle animations, more so in RD's case since there wasn't much clipping, as you mentioned.

I hope that these minor graphical issues are addressed, since I can't imagine they would be too hard to remedy.

EDIT:

After re-watching the Treehouse footage, I noticed that the 2D overworld sprites DON'T have special cursor animations like in Awakening! They don't do a little dance or swing their arms when the cursor is over them...

IS keeps taking SO many short cuts.. :(

The Treehouse has been known to work on games that are not at final 'Gold' build, so the version they played might've lacked those animations is all. tertiary animations like those are more of a polish status rather than a priority, like movement and attacks. And it's always important to remember; what they show on Treehouse isn't always the latest build, as Star Fox Zero or Xenoblade X showcased...

[Leif]

The Treehouse has been known to work on games that are not at final 'Gold' build, so the version they played might've lacked those animations is all. tertiary animations like those are more of a polish status rather than a priority, like movement and attacks. And it's always important to remember; what they show on Treehouse isn't always the latest build, as Star Fox Zero or Xenoblade X showcased...

Oh ok, that explains why the footage looked so unpolished. The English text layout looked so weird.

Maybe the localizers may improve some things? I remember reading an article about how the first Animal Crossing game had more dialogue than the original Japanese, which caused the Japanese designers to release a "+" version of the same game with the added content which was put in the American version.

Again, I doubt this, but who knows.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Leif

[andodel]

The Treehouse has been known to work on games that are not at final 'Gold' build, so the version they played might've lacked those animations is all. tertiary animations like those are more of a polish status rather than a priority, like movement and attacks. And it's always important to remember; what they show on Treehouse isn't always the latest build, as Star Fox Zero or Xenoblade X showcased...

Nope, go watch some japanese gameplay. No alt overview animations. Theres also no enemy turn music, which is something else that bugged me.

As for animations, I think the 3ds animations are great. As much as I loved PoR, it's animations were pretty bad. Rd's were better, but I hated Rd, so meh. I don't mind clipping, so long as the animations are fluid. Also, I love being able to speed up battle scenes, and change camera position. It's those little things that make it so great for me.

Edited July 30, 2015 by andodel