What is it that you dislike about Fire Emblem?

[Dark Sage]

Your defensiveness has everything to do with it.

Gamer culture has...freaking...problems, mate. Ones we should not ignore. If you cant handle people pointing them out, well oopsie for you.

You asserted that these problems were inherent with FE's fanbase and wrote a big spiel about how awful we supposedly are. Your assertion is invalid because 1) most of your complaints are stuff inherent to internet/gaming culture in general (i.e you'll find the same shit in any of these kinds of fanbases) and 2) even compared to other fanbases, FE's is really not that bad compared to other such fanbases. Even some of the users who constantly complain about Fates, for example, are positive towards both the premise and the gameplay.

Like seriously, nobody was saying that elitism was good or whatever. People are objecting to the idea that this is somehow more toxic or cancerous here than anywhere else (and also because your manner of internet speech is horrifically smug and annoying).

I can't really consider statements like this seriously without anything to back them up. I personally don't know how homogenous or not the FE fanbase is or was, especially compared to other fanbases.

Yeah, seriously. I'm wondering where the hell this came from too. Did she take a census of various fanbases all around the world and then compare them to check their diversity? Because all I'm seeing is a poorly worded, thoughtless assertion with no backup whatsoever. All that's missing is accusing us of mainly being cishet white males but then again, that's pretty much implied already by the accusation of how homogenous we are/were.

[kantoorfarina]

Hm, my opinion was surprisingly well received.

I'm certain a few people would be disappointed if they left the siblings as platonic options, but having children with your underage sister who has called you "Brother" for her entire life bothers me. I love Louise, a lot. They're probably one of my favorite Fire Emblem characters, but I'd be perfectly happy if they were recruited with an S-Support with Pent. I'd like to think other people could get over it, but a single missing marriage option would cause a lot more fuss than necessary, especially with a popular character like Elise. A few supports are really erotic and uncomftorable (Zero X Pieri's S-Support is really...) and I can't help but feel that's wasted writing potential for the sake of the waifu crowd.

IIRC, 7 and 11 are on VLC.

Sacred Stones is on the Wii U E-Shop as well, and that one's my favorite.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Hm, my opinion was surprisingly well received.

I'm certain a few people would be disappointed if they left the siblings as platonic options, but having children with your underage sister who has called you "Brother" for her entire life bothers me. I love Louise, a lot. They're probably one of my favorite Fire Emblem characters, but I'd be perfectly happy if they were recruited with an S-Support with Pent. I'd like to think other people could get over it, but a single missing marriage option would cause a lot more fuss than necessary, especially with a popular character like Elise. A few supports are really erotic and uncomftorable (Zero X Pieri's S-Support is really...) and I can't help but feel that's wasted writing potential for the sake of the waifu crowd.

Sacred Stones is on the Wii U E-Shop as well, and that one's my favorite.

Wait, people really would be that disappointed to not S support the 8 royals? Sure i love me some Camilla, but it would have been totally fine if i couldnt S support her. In fact, i was kinda preparing for that news once more info got leaked. I dont think ive seen anyone actually get mad at the idea of NOT marrying those guys....

[Radiant head]

Your defensiveness has everything to do with it.

Gamer culture has...freaking...problems, mate. Ones we should not ignore. If you cant handle people pointing them out, well oopsie for you.

Considering that I don't identify as a gamer and agree that gamer culture is awful, I don't know what I'm getting defensive about. I've always found it baffling how people create an identity based on a hobby, and I honestly think that in of itself causes a lot of the problems in gamer culture (see the Gamer Gate fiasco).

The problem here is that you're conflating these general gamer culture problems with Fire Emblem fanbase problems, and it's kind of unwarranted. You're trying to create this paradigm that anyone who doesn't share your tenuous generalizations on Fire Emblem fans is somehow personally threatened and on the defense, as if there couldn't be anything faulty about what you're saying.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Radiant head

[kantoorfarina]

Wait, people really would be that disappointed to not S support the 8 royals? Sure i love me some Camilla, but it would have been totally fine if i couldnt S support her. In fact, i was kinda preparing for that news once more info got leaked. I dont think ive seen anyone actually get mad at the idea of NOT marrying those guys....

I know some more vocal Camilla fans who might boycott the game if they put the royals off limits (not to say all Camilla fans are like that, of course). I feel like there's no turning back from the anime direction. I know the sooner I accept it, the better, but it still makes me sad to think about.

I hope I don't sound like some elitist who hates the new Fire Emblem's because of the fan service. I love all the games no matter what as long as the main gameplay is there, it's just things like this are really one of the few things that I don't like about the series.

[Anacybele]

I have to admit, I saw one or two people here that were all "I better be able to marry Camilla!" myself. It kind of bugged me, because no one said that about any other character, sibling or not, as far as I saw, and Camilla is like the most fanservicy character in the game. Is it really just her big boobs and ridiculous outfit? If not, then okay, that's fine, but...yeah.

[eclipse]

I know some more vocal Camilla fans who might boycott the game if they put the royals off limits (not to say all Camilla fans are like that, of course). I feel like there's no turning back from the anime direction. I know the sooner I accept it, the better, but it still makes me sad to think about.

I hope I don't sound like some elitist who hates the new Fire Emblem's because of the fan service. I love all the games no matter what as long as the main gameplay is there, it's just things like this are really one of the few things that I don't like about the series.

It's possible to have a favorable impression of something, but still find things that aren't to your liking. I don't blame you for your dislike of fanservice in Fates, nor do I blame the people that like the fanservice. When you start putting other people down because their opinions of FE are different from your own. . .that's a problem.

[maybe]

I know some more vocal Camilla fans who might boycott the game if they put the royals off limits (not to say all Camilla fans are like that, of course). I feel like there's no turning back from the anime direction. I know the sooner I accept it, the better, but it still makes me sad to think about.

I hope I don't sound like some elitist who hates the new Fire Emblem's because of the fan service. I love all the games no matter what as long as the main gameplay is there, it's just things like this are really one of the few things that I don't like about the series.

Nah, you sound fine. And I agree with you. There's really no turning back from the current style. The most successful entry in the series had it, so it's actually a completely logical business decision. Not that I like it, but there's no way they're changing it. It's the reason I don't want to see remakes of any past titles.

I'm fine with the newer entries, to an extent, but it really disappoints me that we probably won't have another Fire Emblem like most pre-FE13 ones... probably ever.

[The Geek]

Nah, you sound fine. And I agree with you. There's really no turning back from the current style. The most successful entry in the series had it, so it's actually a completely logical business decision. Not that I like it, but there's no way they're changing it. It's the reason I don't want to see remakes of any past titles.

I'm fine with the newer entries, to an extent, but it really disappoints me that we probably won't have another Fire Emblem like most pre-FE13 ones... probably ever.

Well, there'll always be Kaga's new project and fan hacks.

[Jave]

The original Fire Emblem era died with FE11. FE12 was this really weird bridge between both eras, and starting with FE13 this is what the series is about.

Either people accept it or move on, but the original era is never coming back outside of remakes or re-releases (And even on remakes I can see them adding all the current era stuff).

[Loki Laufeyson]

Considering that I don't identify as a gamer and agree that gamer culture is awful, I don't know what I'm getting defensive about. I've always found it baffling how people create an identity based on a hobby, and I honestly think that in of itself causes a lot of the problems in gamer culture (see the Gamer Gate fiasco).

The problem here is that you're conflating these general gamer culture problems with Fire Emblem fanbase problems, and it's kind of unwarranted. You're trying to create this paradigm that anyone who doesn't share your tenuous generalizations on Fire Emblem fans is somehow personally threatened and on the defense, as if there couldn't be anything faulty about what you're saying.

I apologize about generalizing you, mate. But i do think problems with Gamer culture and problems in the FE fandom are one in the same. Because they are often the same issues. By tackling one, you may be able to erase the other. Its something we should work on. Dismissing these issues creates more.

I know some more vocal Camilla fans who might boycott the game if they put the royals off limits (not to say all Camilla fans are like that, of course). I feel like there's no turning back from the anime direction. I know the sooner I accept it, the better, but it still makes me sad to think about.

I hope I don't sound like some elitist who hates the new Fire Emblem's because of the fan service. I love all the games no matter what as long as the main gameplay is there, it's just things like this are really one of the few things that I don't like about the series.

Really? I never saw people be super serious about Camilla like that. Nah, a lot of people seem to dislike the fanservice to some extent. I feel, as long as you are not attacking those ok with the fanservice, whats the problem?

While the current style may be a mainstay, perhaps they will eventually find the happy medium? Incorporate the old with the new in ways that dont make people wig out? /hopeless optimism

I have to admit, I saw one or two people here that were all "I better be able to marry Camilla!" myself. It kind of bugged me, because no one said that about any other character, sibling or not, as far as I saw, and Camilla is like the most fanservicy character in the game. Is it really just her big boobs and ridiculous outfit? If not, then okay, that's fine, but...yeah.

I think i remember posting about how i wanted to marry Marx though so... B: I think people's first impressions of Camilla was like "BIZZOW lookit dat babe" kind of thing because of how she was presented in the trailers. So naturally they wanted to S support her. Once news began leaking about her being a sibling, i think MOST people were like "maybe i wont marry her....: ( " In the game, shes actually a pretty cool character.

The original Fire Emblem era died with FE11. FE12 was this really weird bridge between both eras, and starting with FE13 this is what the series is about.

Either people accept it or move on, but the original era is never coming back outside of remakes or re-releases (And even on remakes I can see them adding all the current era stuff).

But Jave, the Happy Medium! Lets not stop hoping for it!

[Anacybele]

I think i remember posting about how i wanted to marry Marx though so... B: I think people's first impressions of Camilla was like "BIZZOW lookit dat babe" kind of thing because of how she was presented in the trailers. So naturally they wanted to S support her. Once news began leaking about her being a sibling, i think MOST people were like "maybe i wont marry her....: ( " In the game, shes actually a pretty cool character.

Yeah, that's what I found to be ew. Like, they only want her because of how she looks... What ever happened to liking someone for them rather than their body? I admit I sometimes say certain characters are hot and that I like that, but that's never the only reason I like them. Ike, Sain, Kieran, Frederick, I love them for their personalities too. Ryoma seems like a really cool character all around as well.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Anacybele

[Florete]

Yeah, that's what I found to be ew. Like, they only want her because of how she looks... What ever happened to liking someone for them rather than their body? I admit I sometimes say certain characters are hot and that I like that, but that's never the only reason I like them. Ike, Sain, Kieran, Frederick, I love them for their personalities too. Ryoma seems like a really cool character all around as well.

When you have nothing but looks to go by, you judge based on appearance. People are naturally attracted to attractive people, it's human nature, but when you get a chance to know someone opinions will typically change.

[Loki Laufeyson]

When you have nothing but looks to go by, you judge based on appearance. People are naturally attracted to attractive people, it's human nature, but when you get a chance to know someone opinions will typically change.

Yarr. See Charlotte for an even better example. Poor dear got a lot of heat from fandom, but now, those who have played the game and/or read her supports think shes pretty gr9. Oboro was another one...

[kantoorfarina]

Nah, you sound fine. And I agree with you. There's really no turning back from the current style. The most successful entry in the series had it, so it's actually a completely logical business decision. Not that I like it, but there's no way they're changing it. It's the reason I don't want to see remakes of any past titles.

I'm fine with the newer entries, to an extent, but it really disappoints me that we probably won't have another Fire Emblem like most pre-FE13 ones... probably ever.

I had that discussion with my friends once, about how I'm iffy on a FE8 Remake because i'm terrified that they'd rename Amelia's Recruit class to Schoolgirl and shoehorn Awakening characters and child units into the story. I'd like to hope we can get one modern FE without the marriage or My Castle feature, just to see what the newer fans would think of it, but that's wishful thinking for the most part.

I'm glad the Nohr route is giving a treat or two to the old fans, but it hardly feels the same with the questionable armor designs.

That reminds me, I dislike how Awakening did difficulty. Lunatic felt like it was just "make a ton of ridiculously broken enemies and call it a day", and Lunatic+ was that but with Luna+ Sprinkles on top.

[Dark Sage]

I'm honestly pretty disappointed with Camilla. I remember when the previews came out and she was described as a rather motherly and protective person. I was pretty much expecting someone like Palla or Juno; instead, she ended up being some yandere with a really creepy incestuous infatuation with the Avatar. It was even more disappointing when, outside of her direct supports, Camilla doesn't seem to give much of a shit about the rest of her family, only Kamui.

[Anacybele]

When you have nothing but looks to go by, you judge based on appearance. People are naturally attracted to attractive people, it's human nature, but when you get a chance to know someone opinions will typically change.

Well yeah, I'd be fine if they just do that, but wait to choose who to marry their Avatar to until they play the game. But choosing a character to marry them to based on appearance alone is silly, imo. Because like you said, your opinion could change later when you see said character's personality.

[Florete]

Well yeah, I'd be fine if they just do that, but wait to choose who to marry their Avatar to until they play the game. But choosing a character to marry them to based on appearance alone is silly, imo. Because like you said, your opinion could change later when you see said character's personality.

You're kind of complaining about people being people.

The fact of the matter is that a part of Fire Emblem has become very open to being a player's wish-fulfillment fantasy. This isn't inherently bad, as video games are commonly used as a form of escapism. The recent games allow you to be "you" in a fantasy setting and choose who you want to be your romantic partner. The first choice most people will make is who they are physically attracted to, and with how Fire Emblem works, there's not a ton of room to change your mind; by the time you may have decided you don't actually like the character, you may have already reached the S rank, but it's very likely that you've at least put a sizable chunk of experience into them and don't want to just drop them from the team. But this is a video game, so regardless of what happens, your decision is only final for as long as the game lasts. Whether or not you end up actually liking the character, the choice isn't a big commitment. I think these people simply take the marriage mechanic less seriously than you do.

There can also be some confirmation bias in it all: a player likes this character's appearance, so he or she tries to focus on aspects of the personality that are preferable to their tastes to unconsciously justify their decision.

[Alazen]

I know I've made a thread about this, I'm not fond of the shift towards a more black (or at most dark grey) and white portrayal of nations at war.

In Awakening, Ylisse was depicted as shining with any dirty spots underexplored at most. We're told Ylisse under Chrom's father apparently oppressed Plegia but none of the recruitable Plegians ever discuss this with each other or others in their talks when playable, and the backstory serves to glorify Emmeryn and demonize Gangrel. Plegia itself is a land where the national god is a mass murdering human hunting dragon whose reward for his followers is to devour them.

I could excuse this if this was restricted to Awakening and Fates did much better. Unfortunately, it didn't.

[spoiler=Fates Spoilers]We have Nohrian leadership and troops going around committing war crimes. Kamui is quick to regret siding with Nohr, and to make it even worse he has a talk with Aqua that treats siding against Hoshido as this great sin. Nohr's leadership ranges from mustache twirlers (Fake Garon, Ganz, Macbeth) to a lackey (Marx). Even the point that Nohr is suffering from a lack of resources goes out the window when Ryoma has supplies sent Nohr, which leads one to figure Nohr could have gotten resources from Hoshido if someone asked.

Hoshido is portrayed as a shining light of shiningness. Its leadership is far more bright than Nohr's. We're told about bigotry against Nohrians, but this isn't really demonstrated in a way that shows there actually is a serious problem of it in Hoshidan culture. Oboro is bigoted against Nohrian's but it turns out she's acting out due to her parents' deaths. We're told Aqua was driven out of Hoshido for her background but that comes off as an excuse for Aqua to hang around Kamui. We have characters making apparently bigoted slogans or generalizations but that's not even close to representing serious bigotry in a society. Even the minor Hoshidan bosses come off brighter, such as Kumagera who is shown to only be out to kill Garon.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Alazen

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

my only real issue with the series recently is that you can literally marry children, and not enough people think this is creepy.

then again, the internet has defended pedophiles before so...but i still really get uncomfortable, children characters should be off limits from being married to these player avatars.

[Loki Laufeyson]

my only real issue with the series recently is that you can literally marry children, and not enough people think this is creepy.

then again, the internet has defended pedophiles before so...but i still really get uncomfortable, children characters should be off limits from being married to these player avatars.

Tbh, i have an issue with that too and its why i draw the line in the sand and dont S support second gen characters in fe13. And the same is going to be said for fe14 characters. I think the majority of people do find it creepy to an extent. But some people sorta just come to terms with the fact its a video game and those kids arent kids (at least in fe13). Or the players ok with it are pretty young themselves and see a character close to their age and like them a lot. (these are the ones i see making fanart and stuff like that shipping an MU with a second gen character) Or (and this is hella common) they arent self-inserting at all and create the MU as some sort of fanfic-type character and ship them with a second gen character or something.

Honestly? A player whos like 13 marrying Nowi or Tsukuyomi isnt gonna bug me. But yeah i see your point about how someone my age playing this game is a thing and Tsukuyomi or Midoriko exist as S supportable options. Its...

[Maritisa]

*Comes back with a notification counter of like 70+* Oh hell, this thread has exploded. I could try to provide useful feedback or defend a point or some shit but you people have/will argue it to death faster than I could hope to keep up with anyway so uh nope I'm out.

All I could bother to say has been said by now anyway. Have fun guys.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Ritisa

[Shrouded In Myth]

I dislike that how after Thracia 776 the series got a bit samey; if the Japn only games were the only ones released nobody would complain about the games being too similar.

I dislike how some things are considered series staples such as the weapon triangle, supports, or the Avatar. Nothing should be above reexamination in the series and personally I actualy think the three game elements I listed are actually holding back the series from evolving.

As far as the talk of the fanbase, I think that the quality of the behavior of the fanbase hasn't really changed pre or post Awakening. You could say that the fanbase was always terrible but before Awakening it was a unique type of terrible. Where else would you find a 400-page thread filled with heated arguments about tiering philosophy? Post-Awakening the fanbase seems to be just another JRPG fanbase,I dislike gaming culture as a whole, but there's something about the FE fanbase that makes me stay. Maybe it has something to do with it being the only prominent SRPG fanbase in the west (barring FFT/TO, but they are lumped together with JRPGs while FE isn't). The mode of thinking required to enjoy FE brought really analytical types of people to the fanbase. I really enjoy critically analyzing media, dissecting the game's mechanics, level design and story doesn't take away from a good game, it adds to it.

[Knight]

I dislike that how after Thracia 776 the series got a bit samey; if the Japn only games were the only ones released nobody would complain about the games being too similar.

I dislike how some things are considered series staples such as the weapon triangle, supports, or the Avatar. Nothing should be above reexamination in the series and personally I actualy think the three game elements I listed are actually holding back the series from evolving.

I too agree that classic gameplay mechanics should be reexamined. A Fire Emblem game with radically different gameplay would be refreshing.

[The Geek]

^I don't think I've ever seen anyone call the Avatar a staple of the FE series, especially as it's a mechanic that's only been in 3 titles to date. It has the potential to become a staple, but it isn't currently.

But with the argument of "reevaluating recurring gameplay mechanics", if you screw around with too many of them it won't really be Fire Emblem. I remember when I first played FE4, my thought most of the time was "this does not feel like Fire Emblem at all"