What is it that you dislike about Fire Emblem?

[Water Mage]

I would like to see these asshole veterans everyone talks about.

If FE fans hated casual discussion so much we would have so many casual threads ("What's your favorite XYZ" and such).

EDIT: Also shouldn't this sort of discussion about the fandom get its own thread? It's not like it's the games' fault people act in certain ways.

Ever read Fire Emblem's reddit? Or youtube comments on Fire Emblem videos? I also remember a certain guy on gamefaqs, who hated every game after FE7, and honestly thought that IS was plotting against him. I wonder what's his opnion on Awakening and Fates.

[X-Naut]

I don't dislike ambush spawns directly (outside of the notable BS ones), but there are two things I dislike related to them.

1. How strongly people complain about them and how easily they decide all ambush spawns are cancer. Give me a break, conveyor belt reinforcements are worse.

2. The modern games' method of dealing with them. Always PP on Normal and EP on higher difficulties? Booooooooring! Mix it up a little: there are times where certain reinforcements work and others don't. Never mind that this direct conversion is what makes certain ambush spawns terrible in the first place!

[Refa]

I don't dislike ambush spawns directly (outside of the notable BS ones), but there are two things I dislike related to them.

1. How strongly people complain about them and how easily they decide all ambush spawns are cancer. Give me a break, conveyor belt reinforcements are worse.

2. The modern games' method of dealing with them. Always PP on Normal and EP on higher difficulties? Booooooooring! Mix it up a little: there are times where certain reinforcements work and others don't. Never mind that this direct conversion is what makes certain ambush spawns terrible in the first place!

Man, I didn't know how much I agreed with your second point until you well, pointed it out. Some ambush spawns in FE13 are obviously better balanced with conveyor belt style in mind (heh, that's some funny wording) like the falcoknights, whereas others aren't. This probably applies to FE11/12 as well but I'm too lazy to remember.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

did this thread turn into "waahhhh i hate this fanbase but i'm posting on a fanbase fourm!" ?

i really feel like this should be in its own place, granted i never go to these so called "awful places" because i'm not that desperate to talk about the franchise, so i find it hard to believe anyone without screen caps of evidence, that really should go in its own thread.

i'm kinda surprised that ya'll people haven't just like...stopped going to these places, or just stopped posting here if you really hate it that much, trust me i stopped posting on here for two years cause i hated it for awhile and i turned out pretty good.

Edited September 22, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[shadowofchaos]

i really feel like this should be in its own place, granted i never go to these so called "awful places" because i'm not that desperate to talk about the franchise, so i find it hard to believe anyone without screen caps of evidence, that really should go in its own thread.

I blocked the guy so his comments don't appear anymore.

But it's akin to these responses, in the very same comment thread.

i'm kinda surprised that ya'll people haven't just like...stopped going to these places

I kinda, have to make videos to supplement my income to live?

[Irysa]

Man, I didn't know how much I agreed with your second point until you well, pointed it out. Some ambush spawns in FE13 are obviously better balanced with conveyor belt style in mind (heh, that's some funny wording) like the falcoknights, whereas others aren't. This probably applies to FE11/12 as well but I'm too lazy to remember.

What games even do both? FE6 does both in limited quantities on Hard Mode because a few enemy reinforcements actually spawn at the end of the enemy phase instead of the start, but aside from that I'm pretty sure it's all one or the other. Jugdral maybe? (still haven't played)

Edited September 22, 2015 by Irysa

[kantoorfarina]

I'm not sure where I stand in this argument.

I started with Awakening on Normal-Casual. I tried Sacred Stones, and I loved it. Much more than I did Awakening. It kind of makes me sad that a lot of the newer fans don't give it a chance, but I think "Not a true fan" is going way too far.

I haven't seen any "elitists" here. People tend to be really respectful of others opinions, even if they disagree with them.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

looks like you might wanna get a different job then buddy.

[Sunwoo]

Honestly, I think at this point I've stopped giving a shit about this fandom. Or any fandom in general. To some extent, every fandom has been and always will be stupid. Just that time may change the why and the degree. Another important thing to keep in mind is that interactions are a two-way street. Are there conflicts that are started because "veteran" FE fans are hostile to new fans? Oh, I'm sure there are. But are there also conflicts that are started because a new FE fan goes somewhere that rarely ostracizes its new members and just starts speaking out of the blue about how much veteran FE players suck and they're all jerks? Oh, I'm sure there are. The sooner we can admit that being an asshole is not limited to being a new FE fan or an old FE fan, the sooner we can stop lumping everyone in stupid categories.

That said, I'll admit that the direction the newest FE games are taking isn't one that I like. But if you like it, I don't care. If FE continues to go in a direction I don't like, then I'll just stop getting the new games without bothering anyone else over it.

[Florete]

looks like you might wanna get a different job then buddy.

This coming from a person who said that comments about the fandom should go in their own place?

Keep comments like this to yourself, buddy.

[Radiant head]

I dunno, I think YouTube, reddit, and gamefaqs are filled with garbage and trolls way way beyond just fire emblem. Those sites are generally notorious for being toxic online environments. The internet gives voice to some of the worst people, especially in those sites, and the fact that some of them like Fire Emblem games doesn't really hurt my view of "the FE fanbase," but that's maybe because I generally avoid those sites to begin with.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Radiant head

[Florete]

I dunno, I think YouTube, reddit, and gamefaqs are filled with garbage and trolls way way beyond just fire emblem. Those sites are generally notorious for being toxic online environments. The internet gives voice to some of the worst people, especially in those sites, and the fact that some of them like Fire Emblem games doesn't really hurt my view of "the FE fanbase," but that's maybe because I generally avoid those sites to begin with.

I strongly agree with this, honestly.

Sites with a wide range shouldn't be considered the best judgement of a specific fandom because most of the site is probably like that; you'll see the same for anything there. I think a more accurate portrayal of any specific fandom would be found in a place specifically made for them.

[Refa]

What games even do both? FE6 does both in limited quantities on Hard Mode because a few enemy reinforcements actually spawn at the end of the enemy phase instead of the start, but aside from that I'm pretty sure it's all one or the other. Jugdral maybe? (still haven't played)

None of them that I know of, besides FE6 of course. FE4 does it sometimes but that's because FE4 is weird. I don't remember FE5 doing it.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I strongly agree with this, honestly.

Sites with a wide range shouldn't be considered the best judgement of a specific fandom because most of the site is probably like that; you'll see the same for anything there. I think a more accurate portrayal of any specific fandom would be found in a place specifically made for them.

like this place for fire emblem right? cause i think this place is pretty good for the most part, sure sometimes i'm an asshole but people that honestly hate others and the series here are in the vocal minority i feel like.

yeah youtube, reddit, and gamefaqs are going to be awful places due to the lack of good moderation, unlike here where i think i deserved every warning point i received, well except maybe one of them, but i don't have points for it anymore so it doesn't matter.

i just think people are too fast to look at the negatives of a cesspool like the sites above, either that or things really are that bad here and i don't browse the site enough (and i browse it every day for afew hours) to realize it.

i mean if we took youtube seriously then we'd all be pewdiepie fans and would be addicted to linkin park AMV's.

[BrightBow]

What games even do both? FE6 does both in limited quantities on Hard Mode because a few enemy reinforcements actually spawn at the end of the enemy phase instead of the start, but aside from that I'm pretty sure it's all one or the other. Jugdral maybe? (still haven't played)

I guess you could say that Tear Ring Saga does both. Normal reinforcements do not move instantly but TRS also has enemy summoners whose summons will be able to move instantly. So while they get to move before you can take any action against them, you do know in advance what kind of monsters you will be dealing with, as well as their general starting location.

[blah the Prussian]

I dislike the lack of realism. I dislike how an army of twelve can defeat entire empires. Honestly, I haven't played an FE game in years, though I will play Fates. I have stayed on this site, however, because I like the people here.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Since I was one of the first to bring up the fanbase, I think I should explain my position on this.

First, let me make clear that despite everything I may mention in this post, I think SF is a great site filled with awesome people. It's definitely one of the best places to talk about FE, and whenever there's good discussion, it's REALLY good. I'm definitely grateful for this community and the best people here do represent the best part of it.

Of course, every fandom has its bad apples, and in FE, there's always been people who look down on newer members. Years ago on GameFAQs, there was a very vocal group of people who considered everything after FE7 to not be "true" FE games, and anyone who played and liked those was not a true FE fan. I never noticed that here on SF (thankfully), and I'm glad it never carried over.

However, SOMETHING happened when FE13 came along, something that really changed the fandom in a drastic way. It's like a lot of that behavior at GameFAQs started to creep into other places in the fanbase, even here, and a of of things changed for the worst. Among the changes I've noticed, well...

New Players feeling unwelcome: This one I don't feel is too bad as others in the thread have commented, specially on SF, but it's definitely something that exists, mostly on sites like GameFAQs and Reddit. I'm not exactly sure what triggers this behavior on veteran members, but it's probably connected to my next bullet points.

Bitterness: There definitely seems to be an overall more bitter tone from certain people when discussing the newer games. FE13 pretty much put FE on the map, and now the general perception of the series is that its main focus is the whole "Waifu" stuff and "Otaku pandering" (I hate all of these terms, by the way, specially because a lot of people use them as insults), and because of that, we may never get a more traditional FE again.

Guilt Tripping: This is what I feel has changed for the worst. Comments like "How can you like this waifu crap" or "How can you pair these two characters? It's pedophilia!" have increased ten-fold, and it's very uncomfortable to read them being a person who simply likes pairing characters to complete the Support Library. Yes, we all have pairings we don't like or are badly written, but I feel a lot of the stuff people say in regards to this is completely uncalled for. I remember how Tharja fans had it rough for the longest time, since a lot of discussions involving her eventually delved into "How can you like her? She abuses her daughter!" territory. Eventually the topic died down, but it sucked that legit Tharja fans had to cope with that stuff. It really didn't feel fair.

Can anyone please think of the children: I really, REALLY don't know how this fandom became so prudish. I'm sorry if that word offends anyone, but it's true. I don't think I ever saw this prior to FE13 (not even on GameFAQs) but it's become such a hot topic now to the point of ridiculousness. Back in the day I know people felt uncomfortable with stuff like the incest and mass children murdering in the Jugdral games. That was understandable and I can accept it, since not everyone has the same level of tolerance. But what do we have now? People who actively want the game CENSORED (actual words) for Western release, with whole convos, whole cutscenes and whole features taken out from the game, for no real reason other than "I don't like this so please take it out so no one can look at it". Is this something that even happens in other fandoms? I mean, this is the kind of stuff I'd expect from Tumblr/Twitter SJWs, not from the fanbase itself.

There's one more point, but I won't bring it up here because it might open a huge can of worms and really derail the thread, so I'll save it for the case that topic ever gets its own thread.

And one last thing. Please don't ask me for proof or numbers or whatever. This is not a matter of stats, but a matter of perception. I have literally ZERO reason to make this stuff up, and if I mention it is because there's a behavior that exists that I've happened to notice. Apologies if this offended anyone, but it's simply how I feel about the whole subject.

TL;DR

No Taguels or Manaketes were harmed during the making of this post.

Oh my gods, this post is a work of art. The last two bolded points is where im having the most frustration. Guilt Tripping because you dont supposedly "think of the children" is the worst. Tumblr/Twitter SJW types would even say "yo, theres a line you are crossing with the call for censorship" its that gnarly. There are some issues with the new game that localization will have to grapple with to make comfortable for western audiences, but honestly? Why i am being shamed right, left, and center for not caring about Camilla's outfit that much? Or sorta shrugging at her cutscene in Hoshido route? I understand why people have issue with that, but i dont have to make it my issue when i dont feel very strongly about it. (especially considering the equal distribution of fanservice in this game is the most ive seen in a video game not named Dragon Age.)

Im a part of the Zelda fandom, and you know what i see? Not a call for censorship, but a call for darker themes. People saying TP wasnt dark enough. I dont recall people getting their knickers in a knot over Telma's bosoms either.

As a Tharja fan, i felt some of the brunt of all that BS surrounding her character. I had conceded that the character had some wasted potential regarding Noire. But it didnt make me stop liking the character, nor did it stop me from catching flak because i liked the character. Mostly because im one of those people who like characters who arent always rosy and morally upright. I like characters with ambiguity and are more than they seem. My favorite fictional characters are people who straddle the line between hero and villain. It also doesnt mean i always agree or excuse everything my favorite characters do. Being shamed for that is....not a fun feeling. (you should see the shaming regarding Snape fans in the Harry Potter fandom these days. Its....horrible, and ive just about had it.) The shaming of such things isnt exclusive to FE fandom though. But for a series with so many varied characters in the cast(s), it feels a special kind of nasty at times when it happen in FE fandom.

Stop.

Right there. That's what grinds my gears.

Right there is what I hate about Fire Emblem. Moreso the fanbase's tendencies.

I agree that the fanservice and the direction FE is taking is different, but a "true" Fire Emblem fan is nothing more than loving the game or the series.

Saying any different in that regard is just an attempt to say "your tastes are crap" in a less offensive fashion.

Otaku pandering or not, love Awakening and If more than the older games, love the older games more than Awakening and If, love the older SNES/NES renditions more than the GBA, 3DS, or Tellius...

You are a true Fire Emblem fan.

This so much. An FE fan is someone who loves FE, period.

On the gameplay front, theres something i need to bitch about.

Enemy imbalance on FoW maps. Im not sure its been mentioned here yet, but enemies have an unfair advantage in such maps. Player vision is limited, but enemies are not. They can come charging at you well outside the field of vision that would be allotted them. Its enough to make you shake a fist and shout at something. :U Can we balance FoW a bit? I mean...i like FoW but...yeah.

[Alazen]

I find the leader units in the series (or at least from Binding Blade onward) to be hit and miss.

Roy is just there. Hector and Eliwood don't a bad job playing off each-other but I don't rate Lyn highly. Eirika wasn't really handled well. I have never been impressed with Ike, Elincia is frankly one of the better written women of all the Lords but unfortunately her arc in RD wasn't so relevant (which is a shame since I do find it more intriguing than the ones after it), and Micaiah is an example of wasted potential. I do recall supporting Shadow Dragon's depiction of Marth but New Mystery went from away that and no to Kris. Awakening's Lords are all failures in one way or another. Kamui is a mess of a character.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Alazen

[Vince777]

I dislike the lack of realism. I dislike how an army of twelve can defeat entire empires. Honestly, I haven't played an FE game in years, though I will play Fates. I have stayed on this site, however, because I like the people here.

Doesn't bother me.

Isn't it usually insinuated that whatever army you control consists of many more soldiers but that you just happen to control a few meaningful battles in every conflict? In essence, you just control a particularly effective and elite hit squad portion of that army.

See Ike delivering his rallying speech to a crowd of thousand of soldiers in Path of Radiance, for instance.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Vince777

[blah the Prussian]

Doesn't bother me.

Isn't it usually insinuated that whatever army you control consists of many more soldiers but that you just happen to control a few meaningful battles in every conflict? In essence, you just control a particularly effective and elite hit squad portion of that army.

See Ike delivering his rallying speech to a crowd of thousand of soldiers in Path of Radiance, for instance.

Yeah, I know, so let us control those soldiers! Maybe it's because I'm more of a grand strategy guy, but FE4 is my favorite of the franchise because it's the only one that actually feels like a war.

[The Geek]

Yeah, I know, so let us control those soldiers! Maybe it's because I'm more of a grand strategy guy, but FE4 is my favorite of the franchise because it's the only one that actually feels like a war.

Even though FE4 is basically the FE equivalent of a Dynasty Warriors game?

[blah the Prussian]

Even though FE4 is basically the FE equivalent of a Dynasty Warriors game?

No, because each chapter in FE4 is an entire military campaign, not a single battle. You get the scope of the war you're fighting much better.

[YoshiYogurt]

I dislike the lack of realism. I dislike how an army of twelve can defeat entire empires. Honestly, I haven't played an FE game in years, though I will play Fates. I have stayed on this site, however, because I like the people here.

I think there is a bit of imagination that needs to involved here. There must be more random units and army behind the scenes. It's basically implied in many of the games. Hell, you don't even deploy even half of your units in most of the games. What are the rest even doing, certainly not sitting doing nothing

[The Geek]

I think there is a bit of imagination that needs to involved here. There must be more random units and army behind the scenes. It's basically implied in many of the games. Hell, you don't even deploy even half of your units in most of the games. What are the rest even doing, certainly not sitting doing nothing

Radiant Dawn is the only game I can think of where this idea is really addressed. I guess Shadow Dragon and Awakening hint at it too, though, seeing as you see random soldiers aligned to your side in cutscenes.

[KMT4ever]

Doesn't bother me.

Isn't it usually insinuated that whatever army you control consists of many more soldiers but that you just happen to control a few meaningful battles in every conflict? In essence, you just control a particularly effective and elite hit squad portion of that army.

See Ike delivering his rallying speech to a crowd of thousand of soldiers in Path of Radiance, for instance.

It's usually implied or stated outright that your units are part of a larger force, but as far as I can recall your units are supposed to represent said force on their own while the enemy units represent an entire enemy army. FE7 puts you in charge of a small group mainly fighting a league of assassins, so the small number of units tends to make sense there. In other games scale basically goes out the window. Here are some examples that stand out to me.

1. In the very first level of FE1 the entire island of Talys is taken over by 14 enemy units representing a larger pirate force. Your 7 units (plus Wrys later) kill all of them. It is trained knights against pirates, but Talys, at least on the world map, is much too big for 7 people to liberate. Yet these are all of the people Marth escaped with.

2. In Chapter 14 of FE7 when attacking Castle Laus, your party is explicitly composed of the units you have. Yet you somehow beat Erik's "unending torrent of soldiers", the forces of an entire Lycian canton.

3. In FE8 Erika's initial party is again explicitly composed of the units you have, a total of 14 people. Yet this group somehow fights its way into Grado, then takes over an entire castle after wiping out Murray's Brigade (of 17 units) guarding the outside.

4. 3-12 in FE10 features you killing 40 enemy units out of approximately 80 present. That is apparently enough to almost obliterate both Crimea's Royal Knights and Begnion's enormous Central Army. Remember the latter is the army from the 3-3 cinematic with tens or hundreds of thousands of men. Of course more battles may be taking place along the entire canyon, but clearly the unit-men ratio is in the hundreds if not the thousands.

5. In 3-13 Daein is explicitly stated to have "only" 10,000 men. Even with allies there's only around 30 Daein units total. Assuming there are other fronts that still makes each unit represent one or two hundred men.

I would assume that each of your units actually represents a larger contingent of allied troops, but that makes healing rather fishy. Either nobody actually gets killed until the whole unit dies or healing can revive people from the dead. Neither one makes sense. I ignore it for the sake of gameplay, but it does bother me.