Anyone else think FE4's cavs kinda suck?

[Katie]

About the extent of goods things I can say about them are that they are mounted, Noish is a good dad to Ayra's kids, and Alec has Pursuit(and Nihl I guess). Even then, mounted units make up like half your units in FE4 and the rest of the mounted units outclass them. Seriously, Sigurd has Pursuit and is a prepromote and overall one of the most broken units in any FE, Azel gets a horse once he promotes and becomes an utter beast due to being a mounted mage, Lex is your only axe user plus he has Vantage and Paragon, Quan is basically a lance-locked Sigurd without Pursuit and he usually has enough strength that he doesn't need it, Ethlyn is a mounted healer and good axebait, Finn gets Pursuit and the Brave Lance and appears in both generations and is never not a good unit, Midir has Pursuit and is able to effectively use bows without being vulnerable on EP since canto allows him to retreat to safety after attacking and is a beast with Jamke's Killer Bow(which Jamke doesn't even need to be a good unit), promoted Raquesis is a Master Knight which is the best class in the game, Beowolf has good bases and good growths for a 1st gen unit and has Pursuit AND Charge(he needs only adept and he'd be Jamke with swords and a horse), and Ferry/Fury/Erin/Lewyn's waifu is your only flier and has good speed and Pursuit. Heck, I'd even argue that certain foot units are better than them, namely Ayra because her great stats and Astra(and Pursuit of course), Lewyn cuz dat speed and of course Forseti, and Jamke because Pursuit/Adept/Charge is such a ridiculous skillset that it basically ensure any time Jamke attacks an enemy it won't end until one of them(i.e. the enemy) is dead. Probably Holyn too because he's like Ayra but with better growths at the expense of a slightly inferior personal skill, as well as Bridget thanks to Yewfelle.

I've heard they can be good fathers but I doubt they're the best for any of the kids, except MAYBE Noish/Ayra, and that's a big maybe. Adean wants Midir or Jamke so Lester can be good or maybe Azel to optimize Lana at Lester's expense. While Noish is a good dad for Ulster and Larcei due to Critical, Ayra also wants either Dew/Holyn for their skills and growths as well as sword inheritance, or Lex for the defense boost and his skills at the expense of inheritance for Ulster unless Lex kills Jacoban and/or Chagall(and even then you'd have to sacrifice using these swords in 1st gen), or maybe even Jamke for the skillset, and I'd like to point out that of these 5 options, Noish gives the worst growths, with Lex in particular being the same or better in every stat. Raquesis wants either Beowolf for a great Diarmid at the expense of a mediocre Nanna but giving good skills and sword inheritance(plus it's easy to acquire), Finn for making both kids decent and giving Pursuit and Miracle at the expense of Diarmid not getting inhertance and being very difficult to acquire, or Azel for giving the best possible Nanna and notably not nerfing Diarmid too much either(certainly less risky than Azel/Adean). Bridget wants Dew/Holyn for pretty much the same reason's Ayra does, or maybe Jamke for dat skillset, though Patty needs to promote(for Pursuit) before she can truly take advantage of it. And the remaining three want Azel, Lewyn, and Claude spread amongst them, because they have mage kids and i shouldn't have to explain why mage kids want mage dads.

I guess kinda suck is a bit harsh since they aren't bad by any means, just lackluster. And besides, considering arguably the only bad units in FE4 are Dierdre and Arden, that's really not saying much. And in the case of said units, Deirdre only sucks because Aura is too heavy( seriously 20 weight WTF?!), and she'd be truly great for the short time you have her if she had better bases and growths (and maybe a promotion too, though she's unlikely to reach promotion anyway in the short time you have her), and Arden can be "not bad" if you baby him enough(mainly by giving him the leg and pursuit rings, and maybe the speed ring too), though his speed usually won't ever be very good unless you're lucky.

tl;dr: Noish and Alec are kinda lackluster units.

Now discuss.

[maybe]

dude

no one likes either of them

[Lantairu]

Are you talking about specifically Noish and Alec? Because nobody likes them.

[Draco]

Even if they are bad, most are willing to overlook it because they can actually move across the map.

[Ebony]

I kind of like Noish. Are the Cavs good?

... not... really...

Even if they are bad, most are willing to overlook it because they can actually move across the map.

But also this.

[Yojinbo]

Noish and especially Alec are generally considered to be pretty underwhelming units. Generation 2 gives you a Cav and a Paladin that are both really, really good but overall the Social Knights don't do a lot. They're mostly auxiliary units to weaken stuff and tank/dodge hits/cover space.

Alec as a father is worthless. The only time I'd even consider pairing him up is in LTC runs where he makes a solid lover for Sylvia.

Noish is a very, very good father. He's not only the best father for Aira's children but I honestly think he's also the best possible husband for Fury too. Both Noish!Fee and Noish!Sety are extremely broken. NoishxBriggid is also pretty good. It's worth keeping him up somewhat and promote him - not hard to do when you can Hero Sword your way through the arena because there's always a pairing where you want him to pass down his goodness. Critical + Charge + Sword is just such a great combo that nobody else has.

[Dandragon]

inb4 kelsper comes in and says "Noishe is a fuckboy"

[Katie]

Are you talking about specifically Noish and Alec? Because nobody likes them.

Yes. I guess I should've clarified that a bit more, especially since Ares, one of the best units in the game, is also a Cav.

Noish and especially Alec are generally considered to be pretty underwhelming units. Generation 2 gives you a Cav and a Paladin that are both really, really good but overall the Social Knights don't do a lot. They're mostly auxiliary units to weaken stuff and tank/dodge hits/cover space.

Alec as a father is worthless. The only time I'd even consider pairing him up is in LTC runs where he makes a solid lover for Sylvia.

Noish is a very, very good father. He's not only the best father for Aira's children but I honestly think he's also the best possible husband for Fury too. Both Noish!Fee and Noish!Sety are extremely broken. NoishxBriggid is also pretty good. It's worth keeping him up somewhat and promote him - not hard to do when you can Hero Sword your way through the arena because there's always a pairing where you want him to pass down his goodness. Critical + Charge + Sword is just such a great combo that nobody else has.

Best possible husband for Fury? Those are some bold words considering Lewyn exists, and everyone knows Lewyn!Ced is probably the most broken unit it the game, or at least in the top five.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Matthewtheman

[Katie]

Double post that I either can't delete or I don't know how.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Matthewtheman

[Ebony]

Yes. I guess I should've clarified that a bit more, especially since Ares, one of the best units in the game, is also a Cav.

Best possible husband for Fury? Those are some bold words considering Lewyn exists, and everyone knows Lewyn!Ced is probably the most broken unit it the game, or at least in the top five.

I think he's a good husband for Fury if you're not using Lewyn on her and instead on, say, Tailto.

[Katie]

I think he's a good husband for Fury if you're not using Lewyn on her and instead on, say, Tailto.

I'll give you that, but calling him the best is too much of a stretch considering Lewyn exists and Noish kills Ced's magic growth(his base is still decent though).

Also, I'm getting the impression from most of you that Noish is considered the better one as a unit. I thought Alec was considered better due to Pursuit and Nihil? What's the general consensus?

[Yojinbo]

Best possible husband for Fury? Those are some bold words considering Lewyn exists, and everyone knows Lewyn!Ced is probably the most broken unit it the game, or at least in the top five.

Imo Levin should always be paired up with Tiltyu so you get Holsety a.) right off the bat in gen 2 and b.) on a unit that sits on a horse. Sety joins very late and is a foot unit so even though Levin!Sety can destroy stuff easily pairing up Levin and Fury only serves to make sure a.) that you miss out Levin!Arthur [arguably the best gen 2 unit] and b.) that Fee will not be as good as she can be.

Noish!Sety will obliterate everything that tries to attack him. Pursuit + Charge + Continue + Critical + Wind Magic is pretty much impossible to survive so unless you like let him fight Alvis he's gonna destroy shit with ease. Noish!Fee is just much better than Levin!Fee, plain and simple. Noish is the only father that makes both of Fury's children OP and you don't actually lose anything from not pairing up Levin with Fury as long as you make sure that LevinxTiltyu happens. That's all not taking into consideration how good NoishxAira is. Seriously, Noish is an amazing father, arguably the best in all of gen 1.

[For reference I think the following pairings lead to the strongest overall gen 2 army: Aideen x Midir/Jamka, Aira x Dew/Holyn, Lachesis x Beowulf, Sylvia x Nobody/Claude, Fury x Noish/Claude, Tiltyu x Levin, Briggid x not Azel/Claude]

[Katie]

Imo Levin should always be paired up with Tiltyu so you get Holsety a.) right off the bat in gen 2 and b.) on a unit that sits on a horse. Sety joins very late and is a foot unit so even though Levin!Sety can destroy stuff easily pairing up Levin and Fury only serves to make sure a.) that you miss out Levin!Arthur [arguably the best gen 2 unit] and b.) that Fee will not be as good as she can be.

Noish!Sety will obliterate everything that tries to attack him. Pursuit + Charge + Continue + Critical + Wind Magic is pretty much impossible to survive so unless you like let him fight Alvis he's gonna destroy shit with ease. Noish!Fee is just much better than Levin!Fee, plain and simple. Noish is the only father that makes both of Fury's children OP and you don't actually lose anything from not pairing up Levin with Fury as long as you make sure that LevinxTiltyu happens. That's all not taking into consideration how good NoishxAira is. Seriously, Noish is an amazing father, arguably the best in all of gen 1.

[For reference I think the following pairings lead to the strongest overall gen 2 army: Aideen x Midir/Jamka, Aira x Dew/Holyn, Lachesis x Beowulf, Sylvia x Nobody/Claude, Fury x Noish/Claude, Tiltyu x Levin, Briggid x not Azel/Claude]

I prefer Ced as my Forseti user because he doesn't need the Pursuit Ring, which I like to save for either Lester or Johan/Johalvier, depending on if I paired Adean with Jamke or Midir. Sure you won't get Forseti right off the bat, but you only have to wait two chapters and Ced with Forseti is more broken than Arthur with it at th expense of coming later, and if you did your pairings right all your kids should be good enough to do just fine before you get Ced. And while I agree Lewyn's not the best dad for Fee he's by no means a bad one. I personally prefer Azel to father Arthur and Tinni so they can get Pursuit plus the bonus to growths having both minor Vala and minor Thor blood gives them. I honestly think it depends on one's personal preference when it comes to choosing who to give Lewyn to, namely how important Pursuit is to them and whether they prefer a broken unit right off the bat or 30-40% in and even more broken. But that's just my personal preference and I'm not real big on the ArthurvsCed Forseti debate.

[Jedi]

Noish is a good dad and a decent unit, Alec has good skills for being a Dad but is pretty meh.

Then again FE4 is an easy game where every unit is usable so...

[Katie]

Noish is a good dad and a decent unit, Alec has good skills for being a Dad but is pretty meh.

Then again FE4 is an easy game where every unit is usable so...

I definitely agree. It's definitely one of the most balanced if one considers balanced to mean having as little bad units as possible. FE13(and maybe 14, which I have yet to play so I don't know) is objectively the best in this regard, since there are literally no bad units in that game, but FE4 is a strong contender for runner-up, though FE7, FE8, and FE12 give it some tough competition.

[Ebony]

I definitely agree. It's definitely one of the most balanced if one considers balanced to mean having as little bad units as possible. FE13(and maybe 14, which I have yet to play so I don't know) is objectively the best in this regard, since there are literally no bad units in that game, but FE4 is a strong contender for runner-up, though FE7, FE8, and FE12 give it some tough competition.

'

before i'm ruthlessly executed, his usefullness fell off for me almost instantly

Anyway yeah I did the same. Azel x Tailto... besides... the pairing is just cute to me, so I guess that helps.

[Ansem]

I prefer Ced as my Forseti user because he doesn't need the Pursuit Ring, which I like to save for either Lester or Johan/Johalvier, depending on if I paired Adean with Jamke or Midir. Sure you won't get Forseti right off the bat, but you only have to wait two chapters and Ced with Forseti is more broken than Arthur with it at th expense of coming later, and if you did your pairings right all your kids should be good enough to do just fine before you get Ced. And while I agree Lewyn's not the best dad for Fee he's by no means a bad one. I personally prefer Azel to father Arthur and Tinni so they can get Pursuit plus the bonus to growths having both minor Vala and minor Thor blood gives them. I honestly think it depends on one's personal preference when it comes to choosing who to give Lewyn to, namely how important Pursuit is to them and whether they prefer a broken unit right off the bat or 30-40% in and even more broken. But that's just my personal preference and I'm not real big on the ArthurvsCed Forseti debate.

two chapters is a long time in FE4, and it does not matter that sety is stronger than arthur with holsety, they both one round stuff with it anyways. at that point it is a matter of who kills enemies harder, but the enemy is dead at that point anyways. arthurs main strength over sety is the fact that he gets a horse. you can give sety the leg ring, but its better used on your dancer to refresh units.

it depends a lot on your playstyle. if you play quickly then levin!arthur is for you. if you don't bumrush your chapters, levin!sety is great for you. also levin could give fee a decent mag growth, and she can kill things with a magic sword as most enemies dont have resistance in that game.

[Katie]

'

before i'm ruthlessly executed, his usefullness fell off for me almost instantly

Anyway yeah I did the same. Azel x Tailto... besides... the pairing is just cute to me, so I guess that helps.

Donnel needs babying at first, but aptitude makes him grow fast. As long as he isn't kept in villager forever(since villager has sucky caps) he's easily useable even in endgame.

two chapters is a long time in FE4, and it does not matter that sety is stronger than arthur with holsety, they both one round stuff with it anyways. at that point it is a matter of who kills enemies harder, but the enemy is dead at that point anyways. arthurs main strength over sety is the fact that he gets a horse. you can give sety the leg ring, but its better used on your dancer to refresh units.

it depends a lot on your playstyle. if you play quickly then levin!arthur is for you. if you don't bumrush your chapters, levin!sety is great for you. also levin could give fee a decent mag growth, and she can kill things with a magic sword as most enemies dont have resistance in that game.

Agreed. Not to mention Lewyn!Fee can also use staves effectively after promotion.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Matthewtheman

[Ansem]

its hard to baby him in lunatic without dlc

[Jedi]

I had a surprising amount of fun with a Fury/Ardan pairing, which involved Fee being oddly tanky and better at offense with a Sety that could STILL kill things with just Lightning and a hilariously capped str and def stat.

[Refa]

-Noish and Alec are underwhelming (but are some of the best fathers thanks to their personal skills).

-The title of this topic is misleading because Aless is one of the best units in the game.

-Levin x Tiltyu is his best pairing (maybe not for LTC though) but it's actually really fucking boring so I never do it.

[Ansem]

wut

levin tiltyu is great for ltc

in second gen ofc i assume you meaning getting the pairing in the first gen takes a lot of turns

[Ebony]

-Noish and Alec are underwhelming (but are some of the best fathers thanks to their personal skills).

-The title of this topic is misleading because Aless is one of the best units in the game.

-Levin x Tiltyu is his best pairing (maybe not for LTC though) but it's actually really fucking boring so I never do it.

yeah sadly noish and alec tend to end up single in my games, sadly

[Baldrick]

wut

levin tiltyu is great for ltc

in second gen ofc i assume you meaning getting the pairing in the first gen takes a lot of turns

Levin!Arthur may not actually make up for the turns it costs to pair Levin and Tiltyu. While Levin!Sety obviously has less move, nevertheless he will sometimes be able to get into position in time.

[General Horace]

if you give noish the hero sword he actually owns so much, like better offence than Sigurd. It's a really really good fit on him.

Paladins also get a pretty nice magic gain on promotion, so with the light sword + magic ring Alec's offence is actually pretty good. I actually think they're both really underrated units. They use most resources better than most other units, but for whatever reason people don't give them a whole lot.