Myke Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 'fan-service' is provided by the developer. if the players themselves are making it, it's 'fan work'. Should western MMO RPGs count as a valid sub-genre for comparison here? Because if so then that just opens up so many more examples of the blatant, in your face kind of fanservice that gets lumped in with JRPGs all the time. don't even start. all the most egregious fanservice in the mmo industry comes from the east. anyway I'm going to join the reasonable people over in the corner where we play games based on their merit and not their region of origin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 don't even start. all the most egregious fanservice in the mmo industry comes from the east. I was never trying imply that WRPGs have more fanservice. I am curious about your statement though, perhaps I have not seen enough of eastern MMO RPGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamarsamar Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Honestly, the only Eastern MMO that mattered was FFXI. The way the Mithra were sold was pretty fanservicey, but I remember hearing somewhere that the Hume Female model was based on one of the directors' preferences in women. So . . . devservice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 WRPGs, because they are simply more fun to play. I would rather explore the world of Skyrim than experience Final Fantasy's story, but thats just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I was never trying imply that WRPGs have more fanservice. I am curious about your statement though, perhaps I have not seen enough of eastern MMO RPGs. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tera&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=892&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIsJ-N3q60yAIVDKeUCh1EVgpn https://www.google.com.au/search?q=vindictus&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI1IKX8660yAIVgT-UCh0wzQ28&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=blade+and+soul&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI-q2Nxa-0yAIVBo6UCh0iwAN_&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=atlantica+online&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIweCzgrC0yAIVixeUCh0T7gNN&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=phantasy+star+online+2&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=892&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI0tWNtq-0yAIVwaOUCh3kSABM (it's mostly korea's fault) don't get me wrong, vindictus and atlantica especially are incredible games, but if you can't admit the flaws in something you love then you don't really love it Edited October 9, 2015 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonretic Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tera&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=892&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIsJ-N3q60yAIVDKeUCh1EVgpn https://www.google.com.au/search?q=vindictus&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI1IKX8660yAIVgT-UCh0wzQ28&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=blade+and+soul&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI-q2Nxa-0yAIVBo6UCh0iwAN_&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=atlantica+online&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIweCzgrC0yAIVixeUCh0T7gNN&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=phantasy+star+online+2&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=892&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI0tWNtq-0yAIVwaOUCh3kSABM Bruh....... Edited October 9, 2015 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 'fan-service' is provided by the developer. if the players themselves are making it, it's 'fan work'. don't even start. all the most egregious fanservice in the mmo industry comes from the east. anyway I'm going to join the reasonable people over in the corner where we play games based on their merit and not their region of origin I don't think it's unreasonable in this case. I mean, it's a discussion about preference between the two styles of games. It's not like anyone is saying they prefer them because they're from Japan or NA, they prefer them because they have differences that made them the distinct subgenres that they are. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tera&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=892&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIsJ-N3q60yAIVDKeUCh1EVgpn https://www.google.com.au/search?q=vindictus&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI1IKX8660yAIVgT-UCh0wzQ28&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=blade+and+soul&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI-q2Nxa-0yAIVBo6UCh0iwAN_&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=atlantica+online&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIweCzgrC0yAIVixeUCh0T7gNN&biw=1680&bih=892 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=phantasy+star+online+2&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=892&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI0tWNtq-0yAIVwaOUCh3kSABM (it's mostly korea's fault) don't get me wrong, vindictus and atlantica especially are incredible games, but if you can't admit the flaws in something you love then you don't really love it (Removing the one because it might actually have bad content if someone's safe search is off lol) Ignoring the fact that one of them flat out has nudity, MMOs also have strong modding communities, so they're all automatically guilty of pornographic fanservice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) JRPGs entirely due to a lack of trying. I'm sure WRPG's are very fun (although I'm more interested in some of the older ones which feel a bit more...not exactly better...maybe iconoclastic is the word I'm looking for) and I'd dig them; I just haven't really tried any of them out. Edited October 9, 2015 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) so they're all automatically guilty of pornographic fanservice! again fan-service as in provided by a business, for money reasons. the fans do it because they are dirty little monkeys and noone can stop them :) EDIT: sorry I should complete my argument here and not just walk away from it satisfied I'm in a better position. still learning how to be a good person, aren't we all? what I'm getting at is the company very explicitly states what those modding agreements can and cannot do, and most will spell out that porn for porn's sake is out of the question (porn for marketing is another issue and they would rather not talk about it) I don't think it's unreasonable in this case. I mean, it's a discussion about preference between the two styles of games. It's not like anyone is saying they prefer them because they're from Japan or NA, they prefer them because they have differences that made them the distinct subgenres that they are. another language thing. if a jrpg is released in the west which is it? what do you call avatar in this situation? Edited October 10, 2015 by Myke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) again fan-service as in provided by a business, for money reasons. the fans do it because they are dirty little monkeys and noone can stop them :) EDIT: sorry I should complete my argument here and not just walk away from it satisfied I'm in a better position. still learning how to be a good person, aren't we all? what I'm getting at is the company very explicitly states what those modding agreements can and cannot do, and most will spell out that porn for porn's sake is out of the question (porn for marketing is another issue and they would rather not talk about it) another language thing. if a jrpg is released in the west which is it? what do you call avatar in this situation? Err, I think you misinterpreted me. I was being sarcastic, scroll up and you'll see I made the same argument you did about the fanservice comments lol. JRPG and WRPG are categorized based on tropes commonly present in eastern and western made RPGs respectively, the biggest of which probably being story progression (and art/graphical style, but I'd consider that more cultural); WRPGs often allow much more freedom to do as you please, whereas JRPGs are typically linear and much more focused on a narrative. A WRPG can be made by a Japanese company and vice-versa (and have been). If you're an avid mmo player you'll notice some of the same differences between western and eastern MMO (most notably their stance on grinding and how many half naked girls are in the tutorial). The W and J are misleading, they're just variations of the RPG that happened to originate and become popular in separate regions. Edited October 10, 2015 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 alright, it sounds like we agree on most everything lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 If you're an avid mmo player you'll notice some of the same differences between western and eastern MMO (most notably their stance on grinding and how many half naked girls are in the tutorial).Man, I don't see how anyone could be against grinding, whether it's grinding with or without half naked girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Honestly, the only Eastern MMO that mattered was FFXI. lineage 2 bro MMOs also have strong modding communities, so they're all automatically guilty of pornographic fanservice! is this a more recent phenomenon? i can't think of any MMOs off the top of my head that had sanctioned (texture, not UI) modding communities. i was one of the dudes who cracked wow open for texture modding way back in the day but what we were doing was shady as all hell and there were always whispers of people getting hosed for doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) lineage 2 bro is this a more recent phenomenon? i can't think of any MMOs off the top of my head that had sanctioned (texture, not UI) modding communities. i was one of the dudes who cracked wow open for texture modding way back in the day but what we were doing was shady as all hell and there were always whispers of people getting hosed for doing it. Yup, the modding community is pretty big for some MMOs. Wildstar actually fully supports mods, and allows users to create add-ons. Guild Wars 2 has a pretty sizable modding community. FF14 has a fair amount of mods, and I remember reading a news story that Square might make it a feature for the game. Those are just three games off the top of my head! They're mostly quality of life things obviously. Edited October 10, 2015 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Yup, the modding community is pretty big for some MMOs. Wildstar actually fully supports mods, and allows users to create add-ons. Guild Wars 2 has a pretty sizable modding community. FF14 has a fair amount of mods, and I remember reading a news story that Square might make it a feature for the game. Those are just three games off the top of my head! They're mostly quality of life things obviously. texture mods, not UI. i know you can tweak the GW2 UI and such, same with most mmos since wow, but the point was about porn mods, which are almost exclusively texture/mesh edits, not UI ones. (yeah i know there are some UI edits that have porn on them like this awesome bejeweled addon i had for wow way back in the day but those don't count imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Oh, Wildstar (official add-ons are UI, but there are some texture mods) and FF14 both have minor texture edits (I'm 99% certain none are pornographic yet lol, and they don't let you add things like costumes or something you'd see in ES), and I know games like Tera have texture mods for less noble reasons. I'm not sure about GW2 because I've not modded it personally, you'd have to look that one up. Edited October 10, 2015 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'll enjoy a good game no matter from where it comes from really... I'm disappointed at the fact that I cannot select both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) you are CORRECT in fact, i did a bunch of searching and found a bunch of savory results! GW2 incidentally has been cracked by a few people but is really prohibitive to work with and anet really brings the hammer down on people in the texture modding scene apparently which brings me to a question: whether games like skyrim which have straight-up mod support are implicated for whatever we were talking about before i butted in or not, should MMOs like GW2 where modders are actively banned when caught count, even though it's technically possible to mod them? EDIT: I'm disappointed at the fact that I cannot select both. "which do you like better" "both" lol Edited October 10, 2015 by Integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxmonste Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I love how you put this question in a site dedicated to a JRPG. So yeah, I like both of them, some of my favorite games are WRPGs, but as a whole, I prefer Japanese RPGs as I think they generally have more depth to them in terms of mechanics, Western RPGs tend to be simpler which isn't a bad thing, but the deeper your role playing is the more personal the experience feels to the player, which is always a positive for me. And I can't deny that they are cute in a way, something you don't always hear from me. Despite preferring JRPGs, I still think that the most revolutionary role-playing game and one of the most revolutionary games as a whole is Dungeons and Dragons. (Granted, it's a tabletop game) Which is western and I know we're talking mostly about video games here, but I felt it worth noting that D&D pioneered the genre and still remains as one of the most powerful games in it to this day. You may dislike constantly rolling 20 sided dice, but there's still a great degree of skill involved, and you can't deny that the greatest power of that game is that the experience is never the same, no two campaigns are the same at least with most good dungeon masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) "which do you like better" "both" lol A like both equally. So I guess "neither" would be more accurate. Edited October 10, 2015 by Naughx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) I love how you put this question in a site dedicated to a JRPG.Look, I'm not trying to bust your balls in particular, but this has been pointed out by a lot of people and I think it's pretty irrelevant. While there is a poll, there is also a discussion thread, which means that even if 9/10 SF members prefer JRPGs (too lazy to check actual results), the remaining 1/10 who like WRPGs can still make interesting posts and provide a good discussion context. It's not a contest to decide which is better (or I don't think it is), and since it's a matter of taste and fairly trivial besides, bias doesn't really matter all that much. Edited October 10, 2015 by Severian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'd say older JRPGs > older WRPGs, but newer JRPGs < newer WRPGs. I prefer Dragon Age, Witcher and Skyrim to the likes of Neptunia, Brave Fencer and other stories full of weak plot and moe waifus. But I'll pick Earthbound, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy over old WRPGs with grimdark silly stories and overly complex gameplays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 When I think of modern JRPG's I think less of the trashy anime-pandering stuff (which I'm pretty sure were around even in the 90s) and more of Deadly Premonition, Demon's Souls, Nier, and anything by Altus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) When I think of modern JRPG's I think less of the trashy anime-pandering stuff (which I'm pretty sure were around even in the 90s) and more of Deadly Premonition, Demon's Souls, Nier, and anything by Altus. I thought both Dark/Demon Souls were WRPGs. Well, true, Atlus' titles are good, and from what I saw Nier is also a good game, but I dare say most JRPGs nowadays are like Neptunia and Agarest Senki, which don't seem like bad games, but I expect less anime-pandering and better plots, which imo WRPGs provide by being serious and much less fanservicey. Edited October 10, 2015 by Rapier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Demon/Dark Souls/Bloodborne are WRPGs made by a Japanese developer. Also, I disagree about Atlus. They make their fair share of pandering fanservice games, some of their most popular series are among them. Edited October 10, 2015 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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