Alastor15243 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Hey, I've heard that you can only recruit one of these units, and I was wondering if I could have some opinions as to which one is better. I've heard that it basically comes down to Olwen's superior availability, story branch flexibility (not having to go to 16A), supports with Leif and Fred, magic stat, PCC, and Dime Thunder, versus Eyrios's superior every other stat and access to prayer and sun sword. Honestly Olwen's looking better because Dime Thunder looks really cool, anyone with a PCC of 3 or higher and supports (particularly with the omnipresent force-deploy Leif) can be awesome if their speed is buffed up (hello Sety scroll), and I don't like the idea of killing off Olwen or just plain abandoning her (I don't like roleplaying a jerk in games). Anyone have anything to contribute to this decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) It really depends. Both units are useful in their own way. Eyrios has better stats, skills, and better weapon ranks. Having high ranks are nice since he can use Thoron, Bolting, and a Master Sword. Olwen has a PCC of 3 where Eyrios has 0 (I think). You can fix his awful PCC with a Wrath Manual. Prayer+Sun Sword+Wrath = killer tank. Olwen is squishy and has poor bases, but having a 1-2 ranged brave weapon is awesome for a mage. Her Holy Sword gives her +10 magic which will defend her against Berserk Staffs/Silence Staffs, etc. Eyrios's downside is his lack of availability. Though I love my male casters, Olwen wins out just for this reason. Also, if Olwen didn't get her special weapons, Eyrios would be the superior option. TL:DR Eyrios = more reliable combat unit all around. Olwen = needs some baby sitting, but is worth the investment. Edited October 14, 2015 by Leif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Eyrios kills pretty much everything Olwen does, and comes with some decent skills (although he'll likely never need prayer) and very good weapon ranks. Olwen's offence is overall better, but she's ridiculously squishy and not particularly fast, and Daimthunder is really heavy. Sure, you can use the Ambush + Daimthunder deal, but Olwen's accuracy is average at best and once the later maps have more enemy leadership stars and the like, the odds of her missing on the counter increases more and more and if she doesn't kill an enemy she's liable to being doubled and kill since she'll have close to 0AS. Eyrios is much better imo, Olwen is pretty shit without Ambush and her stats for a promoted unit are pretty terrible (seriously she's hardly more durable than base Leaf and she's a promoted unit) and Daimthunder isn't as good as people make it out to be. Eyrios requires no investment, comes with A Swords for the indoor chapters. and comes with some awesome equipment that you're not getting unless you have a thief with really high build or you sleep staff him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Olwen's accuracy is average at best But she supports with Leif and Fred giving her a +10/20 (depending on if you use Fred) to acc/avoid/crit/crit avoid, which surely turns "average at best" into "great at best", right? Eyrios requires no investment, comes with A Swords for the indoor chapters. and comes with some awesome equipment that you're not getting unless you have a thief with really high build or you sleep staff him. ...Wait. Mage Knights can't use tomes indoors? Why not? They promote from mages! Edited October 14, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Olwen is better while she has Daimthunder, but she goes through it very quickly. There are better things to repair, and the second Daimthunder comes a bit too late in the game. Without it, she just has alright offence, which many other units have, but Eyrios' defensive prowess is fairly unique. If you're going the A route, I'd choose Eyrios, since Olwen wins by default on the B route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomez_Addams Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 If you want to use Eyrios, you have to kill Olwen, and who would be heartless enough to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 But she supports with Leif and Fred giving her a +10/20 (depending on if you use Fred) to acc/avoid/crit/crit avoid, which surely turns "average at best" into "great at best", right? only if you tether her to leif and fred all the time. even if olwen had 90 hit against an enemy (which generally qualifies as good), she has a 19% chance to miss per round of combat, and if she requires both hits to connect to kill, then that means that 19% of the time she'll get rocked because she misses. that's unacceptable. If you want to use Eyrios, you have to kill Olwen, and who would be heartless enough to do that? you can also neglect to recruit her in chapter 11x. just don't talk to her with fred. fun fact; i hate the name eyrios and his name in japanese is actually a reference to the homeric city of troy: http://jisho.org/word/51868cd5d5dda7b2c6001435 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 ...Wait. Mage Knights can't use tomes indoors? Why not? They promote from mages! No, they definitely can. I think, it's been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 only if you tether her to leif and fred all the time. even if olwen had 90 hit against an enemy (which generally qualifies as good), she has a 19% chance to miss per round of combat, and if she requires both hits to connect to kill, then that means that 19% of the time she'll get rocked because she misses. that's unacceptable. 19% of whatever her chance to be hit is, you mean. That's still still a pretty thorough defense against getting hit. fun fact; i hate the name eyrios and his name in japanese is actually a reference to the homeric city of troy: http://jisho.org/word/51868cd5d5dda7b2c6001435 So you're saying that in a hypothetical English localization his name very well might be Troy? Pretty awesome name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 With that bitching 0AS, I wouldn't expect her avoid to be so hot. Maybe Olwen is the one who needs Prayer, not Eyrios (Troy?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) But she supports with Leif and Fred giving her a +10/20 (depending on if you use Fred) to acc/avoid/crit/crit avoid, which surely turns "average at best" into "great at best", right? ...Wait. Mage Knights can't use tomes indoors? Why not? They promote from mages! Fred doesn't give her any hit or avoid, the support is one way, meaning only Fred gets said bonuses. +10 hit isn't enough when Olwen has a base 107 hit with a Leaf support and factoring in his leadership stars. Most enemy bosses around mid-lategame have 3-5 leadership stars themselves. if any enemy has around 10AS (which isn't hard to assume on midgame enemies that aren't knights or mages) Olwen's rocking a solid 70 hit on them. It's not a good spot to be in, and that's assuming she's close to Leaf (and with their movement difference, it might not always be the case). And like Refa said above, Olwen has 0 AS with Daimthunder until she hits 13 speed, and it's never going to be impressive regardless since she can't use swords due to her rank and awful strength. It's very possible Olwen gets doubled by stuff like Cavaliers, which is a pretty bad thing. Sure Mages can use tomes, but the option of Eyrios actually using swords exists so why bother? Using magic swords (or swords in general) is a far better idea since it doesn't kill your avoid. Olwen doesn't double anything other than some mages and knights without daimthunder anyway, and she lacks the rank to use magic swords. Edited October 15, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Fred doesn't give her any hit or avoid, the support is one way, meaning only Fred gets said bonuses. +10 hit isn't enough when Olwen has a base 107 hit with a Leaf support and factoring in his leadership stars. Most enemy bosses around mid-lategame have 3-5 leadership stars themselves. if any enemy has around 10AS (which isn't hard to assume on midgame enemies that aren't knights or mages) Olwen's rocking a solid 70 hit on them. It's not a good spot to be in, and that's assuming she's close to Leaf (and with their movement difference, it might not always be the case). And like Refa said above, Olwen has 0 AS with Daimthunder until she hits 13 speed, and it's never going to be impressive regardless since she can't use swords due to her rank and awful strength. It's very possible Olwen gets doubled by stuff like Cavaliers, which is a pretty bad thing. Sure Mages can use tomes, but the option of Eyrios actually using swords exists so why bother? Using magic swords (or swords in general) is a far better idea since it doesn't kill your avoid. Olwen doesn't double anything other than some mages and knights without daimthunder anyway, and she lacks the rank to use magic swords. I forgot about Ambush on Olwen. Yes, she, like Eyrios would need a specific skill to improve her usefulness. I've used both and I have found that Eyrios is more reliable and battle ready. Olwen needed babysitting, but can be really good with scroll abuse and some stat rings. It's unfortunate you can't use both Eyrios and Olwen and it's sad that Eyrios is recruited late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I prefer Olwen, but all I can really add s that Olwen also gets the Holy Sword. Both have enough pros and cons that it really comes down to personal preference. Olwen has better weapons, availabilty, and PCC. Ilios tends to have better stats, has better skills(especially since he actually has skills), and A rank swords, but requires you to take A route. I mainly prefer Olwen because she has better personality and is more plot important. It all comes down to preferences, as well as the route you pan to take, since if you go with B route you don't get Ilios anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmola Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 So you're saying that in a hypothetical English localization his name very well might be Troy? Pretty awesome name. Possibly, Although the iliad refers to troy by 3 names: Troia, ilion, and ilios (with there being some evidence from the way that the poetic verse in the iliad is phrased that the pronunciation of those last two changed from wilion and wilios in the several hundred years between when the iliad was composed and when it was written down). There are also many other names in latin, turkish, english, and hitite(troy appears to have been culturally hitite). Erios appears to be a reference to ilios that got mistranslated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Okay, what are the advantages/disadvantages to taking the A and B routes then? Because that's really important to the decision. If I wind up liking B route more, then Eyrios is out of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 B route gets you better items, A route gets you better characters. B route is also slightly easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Olwen has better weapons, nooo this is false. weapons that olwen can use but eyrios can't: dime thunder, holy sword weapons that eyrios can use but olwen can't: armorslayer, brave sword, fire sword, wind sword, master sword, sleep sword tell me again that olwen has better weapons B route gets you better items, A route gets you better characters. B route is also slightly easier. B route doesn't give better items and it's also not easier B route potentially yields a second pugi. A route yields two warp staves and a rescue staff. B route has a super frustrating escape map in a dense forest with hidden warp traps. A route has two straightforward seize maps. Edited October 16, 2015 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 nooo this is false. weapons that olwen can use but eyrios can't: dime thunder, holy sword weapons that eyrios can use but olwen can't: armorslayer, brave sword, fire sword, wind sword, master sword, sleep sword tell me again that olwen has better weapons Only for a rather spurious definition of "Can't". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 A route also gives you Sleuf who is a much more useful unit than Miranda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Dime thunder is a brave weapon with 2 range. With ambush a very nice combination especially against magic users. In this case I don't go for the stats, but for the weapons. The winner isn't Olwen, but dime thunder. Edited October 16, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Only for a rather spurious definition of "Can't". if Olwen somehow uses a sword 50 times with her nonexistant strength you're purposely gimping her and making her a terrible unit just to be able to use swords (worse) than Eyrios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Only for a rather spurious definition of "Can't". i wasn't aware that practical was synonymous with spurious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 As someone who posted the idea of using Ambush Olwen with Dime Thunder a long time ago: don't do it, it's bad. It's not even close between Eyrios and Olwen. Olwen puts herself in mortal danger every time she uses Dime Thunder. With that ~20% death chance Horace showed earlier, imagine having Olwen face 5 enemies over the course of a chapter. She has a ~68% chance of death that way. What a great use of a skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 i wasn't aware that practical was synonymous with spurious I was just saying it was disingenuous to flat-out say that she can't use them instead of saying she can't practically use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 okay i don't have the time or the effort to waste my time specifying caveats and obvious reasoning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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