As a Veteran FE Player, Should I Skip Fates?

[Maelstrom.]

It's gotten to that point. I've been a big FE fan for some time now and am just getting into the ones without western releases (FE 4 and 12, more specifically). The more I look at FE Fates, the more I get this terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that the Fire Emblem I love is gone forever. I don't want unbreakable weapons. I don't want ridiculously unbalanced gameplay difficulties. I don't want DLC made for grinding, or even any sort of level grinding at all. I don't want 10+ Ests thrown into the campaign in the form of children. Right now, I feel like that kind of guy who could write a 10-page article about everything Awakening did wrong.

I know there's a ton of FE vets here, which is why I came to ask this question:

From this standing point, should I skip FE Fates, or does it have enough of the classic FE in it that I just might have missed somewhere?

Does this make any sense?

[nocturnal YL]

My, tough question…

I'd say it boils down to whether you tolerate having features you'll never use in a game. Think FE8. The tower and ruins are right there, but you won't miss anything by skipping them, and the game is perfectly beatable.

As for the difficulty, Nohr without grinding is pretty tough, but manageable. And it's nothing like FE5 or FE12 Reverse Lunatic, if that's the kind of difficulty you're into. If you seek something more reasonable (like FE9 JP Maniac), then it's a yes.

I don't know how a no-grind Hoshido or IK will work out, though.

[Ryo]

Unbreakable weapons isn't exactly a problem in Conquest since you don't really get much money to buy many of them anyways. Higher level weapons have limited stocking (unless using DLC) and somewhat severe penalty for using them. You will find yourself using Iron or Steal in the majority of your game.

I'm not exactly a veteran and I don't know what's the kind of game you're into, so I'm not sure what to vote.

[CocoaGalaxy]

As it is though, I don't think the developers can make a game with a toggleable weapon durability system, so that's that

I don't find the difficulty unbalanced, in fact, in my opinion the game is one of the more balanced game difficulties

I wouldn't say the children are Ests, they're more like.......well actually I dunno, they're basically characters that have good bases and growths and join you partway (except that there's a chance that they'd get screwed if they joined earlier, though it might just be a normal chance of getting screwed)

Grinding is optional, so I find that it's not acceptable.

Unbreakable weapons are really only noticeable for things like Armourslayer since you can just use them with impunity against knights, etc, and they're statistically an iron, so you don't necessarily lose anything for using them.

I would say the game is "more" traditional FE, than awakening, at the very least

Silver, Steel less so, are somewhat balanced out by their effects.

Edited November 14, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Tangerine]

Don't play any of the older games and stick to the GBA and Tellius games, then. Fire Emblem has gone through big changes in the past and this is no different. FE1-5 are very different from 6-10, now we're witnessing the series evolve once again.

FE is posting the highest ratings and sales that it ever has; if older fans refuse to play the games because they're doing something different, they have their own eras of FE games they can continue playing. We're thankfully at a point in the series' popularity where the hardcore fans can pass on a game and not run the risk of the series going dark for years because of it.

So my vote is to skip it, not "as a veteran FE player", but as someone who is clearly not interested in the direction the series is going in currently.

I don't want ridiculously unbalanced gameplay difficulties.

This sticks out to me as funny, because I can't recall a single FE game that actually had what I'd consider balanced difficulty, FE7 or FE10 might be the closest from general consensus. They all range from being mind numbingly easy to being hampered by fake difficulty (same turn reinforcements from behind, every enemy has crit, long range berserk status in a game with permadeaths etc) and we love the series anyway.

If you mean the optional difficulty modes you select from a screen, I understand your reasoning even less. More difficulty modes is better, it lets you select the experience you want to have with the game. I don't see why you have a problem with super easy or super difficult modes as long as there is a mode that fits the experience you want from the game. When IS announces they're removing normal mode I'll start to understand these complaints lol.

[Maelstrom.]

I'd say it boils down to whether you tolerate having features you'll never use in a game. Think FE8. The tower and ruins are right there, but you won't miss anything by skipping them, and the game is perfectly beatable.

As for the difficulty, Nohr without grinding is pretty tough, but manageable. And it's nothing like FE5 or FE12 Reverse Lunatic, if that's the kind of difficulty you're into. If you seek something more reasonable (like FE9 JP Maniac), then it's a yes.

Thanks for that info. It's something I can't really tell for myself, as, if I do play it, I want to stay as spoiler-free as possible. Yet, I would like to know about the 3rd path, because I saw the spoiler about it

being the only true path, and I hate to only be able to play games halfway

Unbreakable weapons isn't exactly a problem in Conquest since you don't really get much money to buy many of them anyways. Higher level weapons have limited stocking (unless using DLC) and somewhat severe penalty for using them. You will find yourself using Iron or Steel in the majority of your game.

Again, thanks for the info. At this point, I've had no way to know if that was balanced in the least.

I would say the game is "more" traditional FE, than awakening, at the very least

That's pretty nice to know

Fire Emblem has gone through big changes in the past and this is no different. FE1-5 are very different from 6-10, now we're witnessing the series evolve once again.

That last statement is true. I'm not so sure about the first one there though. I'm currently playing FE4, and have tried a little of FE5 and I feel right at home. Granted, I know that FE2 is different enough from the series to be considered it's own era, and FE1 and FE3 are very simplified and barebones compared to the rest, but I feel that that first era has more in common with the second than either do with the third. Just saying the series is going in a direction I don't like doesn't mean I won't feel terrible when the next entry takes it even further.

And I'd like to add that most of the changes from the first to the second added layers of complexity, while it feels like this third era is striping it of the complexity it once had.

I don't see why you have a problem with super easy or super difficult modes as long as there is a mode that fits the experience you want from the game.

That's exactly the thing about Awakening. I wasn't able to find a difficulty that suited me. Normal was so easy, I was able to beat Grima and some of the post game maps with a paired up Donnel and Robin paired up with Chrom. Yes. That's just about all I used. Note that this was as my second FE game.

Then there was hard mode, which I found impossible to beat without any grinding midway through the second half. And this was after I had played much more of the series.

This is not balanced.

And to the large percentage (now 7/10 people) of people who think I should play the game, it'd be nice if you explained your reasoning. Just voting without any explanation holds no meaning to me, and just makes me regret adding a poll.

[The DanMan]

Well, from what I've heard, the Nohr route gameplay is freaking awesome.

Nohr hard is pretty challenging, but for all the right reasons. While Awakening hard just threw 50%-100% more slightly higher leveled enemies at you, Nohr doesn't do as much of an enemy increase; instead, they have fixed skills that you have to strategize around.

The game on a whole seems to be pretty balanced; there's nothing really gamebreaking in the normal game.

The 2nd gen can be ignored entirely.

Ultimately, I'd ask you this: how much do you prioritize core gameplay? Nohr definitely seems to have the core gameplay down pat. Writing and fanservice (though due to certain comments, it's pretty reasonable to assume that this will be toned down) are a whole other issue, and characters are a very mixed bag.

[Zerosabers]

I voted not to skip it originally, but I've swapped my vote to skip.

Then there was hard mode, which I found impossible to beat without any grinding midway through the second half. And this was after I had played much more of the series.

This is not balanced.

I've heard that said about Lunatic mode but I've never heard anybody say that about hard mode.

Hard's balance is perfectly fine, don't complain because you couldn't beat it.

[ruadath]

Ultimately, I'd ask you this: how much do you prioritize core gameplay? Nohr definitely seems to have the core gameplay down pat. Writing and fanservice (though due to certain comments, it's pretty reasonable to assume that this will be toned down) are a whole other issue, and characters are a very mixed bag.

Source? Just wondering, that's all.

[Tangerine]

That last statement is true. I'm not so sure about the first one there though. I'm currently playing FE4, and have tried a little of FE5 and I feel right at home. Granted, I know that FE2 is different enough from the series to be considered it's own era, and FE1 and FE3 are very simplified and barebones compared to the rest, but I feel that that first era has more in common with the second than either do with the third. Just saying the series is going in a direction I don't like doesn't mean I won't feel terrible when the next entry takes it even further.

And I'd like to add that most of the changes from the first to the second added layers of complexity, while it feels like this third era is striping it of the complexity it once had.

I disagree. If anything the series has been getting less complex since the SNES games, and its aim has very clearly been to appeal to a wider audience. FE6/7/8 are certainly not more complex or intricate than FE5. Of course, the SNES titles had glaring flaws that prevented some of their complexities from actually being recognized - completely unbalanced difficulty trivializing several mechanics being a major one, something that has been a flaw of the series since it began.

That's exactly the thing about Awakening. I wasn't able to find a difficulty that suited me. Normal was so easy, I was able to beat Grima and some of the post game maps with a paired up Donnel and Robin paired up with Chrom. Yes. That's just about all I used. Note that this was as my second FE game.

Then there was hard mode, which I found impossible to beat without any grinding midway through the second half. And this was after I had played much more of the series.

This is not balanced.

So you flat out have a problem with Fire Emblem is what you're saying. Because no FE game is free of units capable of carrying the game. Marcus can carry FE7 on any difficulty, Seth can carry FE8 on any difficulty, Titania can carry FE9 on any difficulty, etc. The games are not balanced and never have been. If you had that much trouble in FEA HM, chances are it's because you allowed bad habits from previous playthroughs and easier games to seep into your gameplay. I agree that the difference in difficulty between modes is large (ie someone going from normal to hard in an FE game could be in for a shock at the start), I don't agree that it is a problem exclusive to the new games. I'd say FE7 prepares you most for each difficulty level, the rest of the games are a crapshoot. FE is just not a balanced series.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Tangerine

[Ryo]

Then there was hard mode, which I found impossible to beat without any grinding midway through the second half.

This is the first time that I hear a complaint about Awakening Hard mode being too hard (let alone requires grinding to complete), most of the times people have been saying that it's too easy.

Fates' difficulty jump from Normal to Hard is pretty much the same as Awakening's, however Lunatic is closer to Hard this time around.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I think you should wait for a bit, but I can guarantee the game doesn't play like Awakening (enemy phase heavy, OP characters trying to survive through 101028281340 OP enemy units, shitty maps, etc). In fact, the gameplay seems to still be a fun FE experience and you can decide to avoid any sort of grinding.

I heard Nohr on Normal can be a nice challenge for a beginner, it seems close to FE7 on Eliwood Normal (I think). I remember streams on Normal/Casual still struggled with chapter 10.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Regarding low manning, it's practically impossible on a standard run to solo the game, the enemy units are comparatively powerful enough, and with skills more so.

Of course...there are...other things you can do (skill buying optimization, blah blah) but yes

For one, the exp formula is changed so exp drops off quite quickly when you get overleveled, the enemy stats can be higher than yours, which is kind of a change (largely in the strength and defense department, less so in speed), dodging is pretty difficult, and even the best tanks have their own flaws

Comparatively speaking, I would say the game is more difficult than FE13N/H, less difficult than FE13L or L+

There's also a bit more of a strategic element in the game.

Normal Mode by itself is not really overly a problem for experienced players, but it's not a walk in the park for new players.

Hard is a pretty steep jump up from Normal, I would say. Lunatic is less so but still tougher.

It's not impossible to steamroll the game either, but generally speaking the game gets easier towards the end..I think, though some people say that (not that I'm saying it's not true) Nohr gets harder towards the end instead

Edited November 14, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[The DanMan]

Source? Just wondering, that's all.

Chris Pragner, the former Treehouse member who got fired for breaking the NDA, made a comment that seemed to imply changes (I don't have the exact quote; it's more of a rumor than anything).

I also saw a quote thrown around on here about how on of the localizers said that "it needs to be less of 'that'"; once again, nothing concrete. However, I wouldn't deny the validity of any of these yet; they seem pretty expected and reasonable.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

So you flat out have a problem with Fire Emblem is what you're saying. Because no FE game is free of units capable of carrying the game. Marcus can carry FE7 on any difficulty, Seth can carry FE8 on any difficulty, Titania can carry FE9 on any difficulty, etc. The games are not balanced and never have been. If you had that much trouble in FEA HM, chances are it's because you allowed bad habits from previous playthroughs and easier games to seep into your gameplay. I agree that the difference in difficulty between modes is large (ie someone going from normal to hard in an FE game could be in for a shock at the start), I don't agree that it is a problem exclusive to the new games. I'd say FE7 prepares you most for each difficulty level, the rest of the games are a crapshoot. FE is just not a balanced series.

Honestly, if FEA HM is too much for an individual, I don't see how it could be anything but. This is a series designed around strategy. If someone is falling short, it's probably on them and not 'unbalance.'

[EricaofRenais]

Watch a few game play videos before you make a decision, I already preordered the game and am looking forward to it but I am fine with IS trying new things in the game. I think you should do some research on all the paths and find which one you would like best. From everything I have seen IS really tried to make a path for every one.

[Hatsuoki]

As someone who has played through Nohr HM, I can definitely say that it has a nice balance to it, though, if Awakening HM is too much for you, Nohr HM will definitely be too much as well. Nohr HM requires a lot more stragegizing around certain enemy unit and imo, Awakening HM was a cakewalk. Also I found that taking away weapon durability hardly mattered to me because I mean, how many people actually screw up due to a weapon breaking? But the weapon effects now, I find more interesting and requires more thinking to deal with.

[Jagged Jagen]

Honestly, the call is yours in the end. Many of the features you listed also bother me (especially the lack of weapon durability) but I'm still on the whole going to purchase Conquest. There are a couple things to keep in mind making your decision:

- If you dislike the game, you can always trade it in, you won't get all your money back, but you'll certainly get some.

- If Fates isn't for you, there are some alternatives on the market. FE creator and FE2-5 director Shouzou Kaga has broken a ten year silence, and is working on a new SRPG in vein of his titles. It's free, in 2-parts, and is rumored that the first part releases next summer (though some Japanese knowledge will be required, at least until a potential translation)

- Also remember, you can borrow from a friend or rent the game from gamefly/redbox, you don't have to shell out a surplus of money if you're on the fence.

[The Archsage]

I voted that you should get it, because, let's face it; we could give you all sorts of reasons to get it, or to not get it, and none of it will matter unless you try the game out for yourself. Despite all the changes made to the series, in the end the game is still a Fire Emblem game.

I recommend just getting Nohr to start with, to actually determine if you like it. Nohr is, if rumours are to be believed, more like the Fire Emblem games we older fans are used to. As such, if you don't like Nohr, I rather doubt you'll like the the other two versions. At least in this way, you'll get the one that is most like what you want, and, if it's still not up to your expectations, then you haven't spent another $40 on getting the other two versions of the game.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Honestly Awakening Hard does pull bullshit similar to what Lunatic does, except much less. More enemies, and late game is filled with forges.

If you want to play it without Pair Up (like an old FE game), it's going to be much harder early on.

[The DanMan]

Honestly Awakening Hard does pull bullshit similar to what Lunatic does, except much less. More enemies, and late game is filled with forges.

If you want to play it without Pair Up (like an old FE game), it's going to be much harder early on.

Chapter 20 onward is kind of stupid on Hard. I actually had to abandon the no-grind part of my no-grind run because the game throws 40+ enemies at you while only letting you select 12 of your own units.

And then there's maxed out (and beyond) weapon forges. That's just cheating.

Edited November 14, 2015 by The DanMan

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Honestly Awakening Hard does pull bullshit similar to what Lunatic does, except much less. More enemies, and late game is filled with forges.

If you want to play it without Pair Up (like an old FE game), it's going to be much harder early on.

the biggest issue with awakening's hard mode is that it was designed around grinding your units up a level or two above the average. and using pair up.

if you refuse to do this then your handicapping yourself pretty badly, more so on lunatic and lunatic +

[Ryo]

Awakening Hard is pretty fun to play without Second Seal (i.e no infinite level ups and reclassing) and grinding. Though when you get the children they'll carry the game for you.

[PuffPuff]

Unbreakable weapons isn't exactly a problem in Conquest since you don't really get much money to buy many of them anyways. Higher level weapons have limited stocking (unless using DLC) and somewhat severe penalty for using them. You will find yourself using Iron or Steal in the majority of your game.

I'm not exactly a veteran and I don't know what's the kind of game you're into, so I'm not sure what to vote.

...And forging them along with Thunder to +4-7 to make the other weapons garbage.

As it is though, I don't think the developers can make a game with a toggleable weapon durability system, so that's that

I don't find the difficulty unbalanced, in fact, in my opinion the game is one of the more balanced game difficulties

I wouldn't say the children are Ests, they're more like.......well actually I dunno, they're basically characters that have good bases and growths and join you partway (except that there's a chance that they'd get screwed if they joined earlier, though it might just be a normal chance of getting screwed)

Grinding is optional, so I find that it's not acceptable.

Unbreakable weapons are really only noticeable for things like Armourslayer since you can just use them with impunity against knights, etc, and they're statistically an iron, so you don't necessarily lose anything for using them.

I would say the game is "more" traditional FE, than awakening, at the very least

Silver, Steel less so, are somewhat balanced out by their effects.

The Slayer weapons work against everyone, but it would only be best to use them only against foes that they deal triple damage on.

That I touch none but the Silver Bows since they are player Phase dependant weapons anyway and won't greatly take it's toll on the wielder more than once as their penalties do stack during enemy phase.

I think you should wait for a bit, but I can guarantee the game doesn't play like Awakening (enemy phase heavy, OP characters trying to survive through 101028281340 OP enemy units, shitty maps, etc). In fact, the gameplay seems to still be a fun FE experience and you can decide to avoid any sort of grinding.

I heard Nohr on Normal can be a nice challenge for a beginner, it seems close to FE7 on Eliwood Normal (I think). I remember streams on Normal/Casual still struggled with chapter 10.

Nothing like it.

You could break Awakening. This time, you cannot. Venom/Deadly Breath/Four Fangs, Mag Counter, Ninjas, Attack+Guard Stance item (Not desirable since this gives it to your enemies too). In Awakening, only your characters could do Attack and Guard stances. In this...the enemies do them...too. Also, Freeze, Negative Chain(None have ever been found, yet),

Regarding low manning, it's practically impossible on a standard run to solo the game, the enemy units are comparatively powerful enough, and with skills more so.

Of course...there are...other things you can do (skill buying optimization, blah blah) but yes

For one, the exp formula is changed so exp drops off quite quickly when you get overleveled, the enemy stats can be higher than yours, which is kind of a change (largely in the strength and defense department, less so in speed), dodging is pretty difficult, and even the best tanks have their own flaws

Comparatively speaking, I would say the game is more difficult than FE13N/H, less difficult than FE13L or L+

There's also a bit more of a strategic element in the game.

Normal Mode by itself is not really overly a problem for experienced players, but it's not a walk in the park for new players.

Hard is a pretty steep jump up from Normal, I would say. Lunatic is less so but still tougher.

It's not impossible to steamroll the game either, but generally speaking the game gets easier towards the end..I think, though some people say that (not that I'm saying it's not true) Nohr gets harder towards the end instead

Not with Venom/Deadly Breath/Four Fangs, stat reductions, Ninjas/Maids ruining everything.

Especially with Freeze staves and ability to ruin the opposition.

With everything I'm saying on the bottom page tells me that like Thracia, this is meant to be a harder game than anything else.

With Venom/Four Fangs/Deadly Breath, stat reductions, Ninjas and Maids...I'd say it is...

Not on Hoshido since they don't throw none of this infuriating shit at you. ...And Nohr route makes even Thracia776 a joke.

Honestly, the call is yours in the end. Many of the features you listed also bother me (especially the lack of weapon durability) but I'm still on the whole going to purchase Conquest. There are a couple things to keep in mind making your decision:

- If you dislike the game, you can always trade it in, you won't get all your money back, but you'll certainly get some.

- If Fates isn't for you, there are some alternatives on the market. FE creator and FE2-5 director Shouzou Kaga has broken a ten year silence, and is working on a new SRPG in vein of his titles. It's free, in 2-parts, and is rumored that the first part releases next summer (though some Japanese knowledge will be required, at least until a potential translation)

- Also remember, you can borrow from a friend or rent the game from gamefly/redbox, you don't have to shell out a surplus of money if you're on the fence.

Rather have that since I don't want my characters stats reduced!

----

Worth a try...I'd say. Plus many things have changed.

-Charm and Demoiselle are shit now since they no longer raise avoid and hit.

-No Wrath Skill

-Counter no longer triggers during the opposite phases.

-Aggressor only gives +7.

-Increased Dual Guard skill has been to Amiibo/DLC only now in the Lodestar class. In the Great Knight class before which is now been replaced with Diamond Strike.

-HP growths are lowered and is harder to get more HP

-Caps are lowered. Which is bad since it'll lower activation rates on attacking skills without Skill Drain, Hoshido, Flamobyant.

-Ninjas and Maids are the utmost broken enemies in the series history.

Reasons why...

-Having Cut Through makes them even more dangerous as that they can lower your stats in addition to throwing you into the frey of other enemies that can easily finish that unit off.

-Getting Venomed even when they miss.

-Their stat reductions of their Shurikens do stack.

-Maids can conk you out with Weakness and Freeze staves.

-You have no way to negate/reduce damages of Venom and status staves since they are enemy only.

-Having c'mere staves that some maids carry makes them even more dangerous.

-No unit can survive their wrath after they live long enough. They are 100% danger as long as they are still breathing.

-Vengeance and Ignis only will work with the actual amount of skill that you have.

-Sealing skills are mannered to make the battles harder than they have to be!

-There is no longer Duel Support. Only Battle Command which is not worth a skill slot for.

-Crit evasion is only halved in this game by luck. Have to get Veteran Intuition to make it like all of the other games!

-You can only get Limitbreaking stats with whatever you choose with the draining skills which the effects only lasts until the chapter/battle ends.

-The Ballistian DLC class is a joke compared to the Witch one which both Warp and Witch's poison are the only good DLC skills since the Cauldren does not give you Vulneraries and Darkgift is no longer useful since Nosferatu(The King of Weaponry) is shit now. Reasons why...

-Can't crit

-Can't double attack

-Cannot activate Attacking skills with them.

-They're limited in supply at the stores to put max forging them to a screeching halt.

So...this means that it should be ignored completely and just get Aether, Lifetaker and Sol for your recoveries!

-C'mere staves for some reason do not work on some maids. Like the one in the final chapter on Nohr.

-Getting skills is limited without doing more than one run as well as making the Rallies harder to get/or my castle battles.

-Infinite weapon durability is a problem since with durability, your stats don't get penalised in return for it!

-Nohr route will make even veteran players miserable even though it's my favorite route.

-EXP gains are done like all other RPG's now. BY LEVEL! If your level is too high, you only get 1EXP point per kill. You'd have to be at final chapter to get them to any level that you want which is good which this itself puts a stop to your gamebreaking of massive grinding.

-Nohr Route's gold is really tight without Great Merchants and Gold DLC.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Princess_Elise

[Ryo]

...And forging them along with Thunder to +4-7 to make the other weapons garbage.

Where do you even get the money to forge a +4, let alone +7, without DLC on Nohr?