The next FE protagonist

[Taka-kun]

So, I have seen lots of complaints with FE protagonists, especially with the introduction Avatars that can feel bland. With Kamui in FE14, I am inclined to agree, since there are so many problems with Kamui but I am gonna settle with him just being generic shonen, getting adoring love without lifting a finger.

So, yeah, what do you want in a protagonist for a potential FE? Personally, I really liked the idea of Robin, an amnesiac tactician being absolutely brilliant on the battlefield, unconfident outside it. More than anything, Robin is a strategist in a game revolving around battle strategy yet never properly developed one, focusing instead on chosen sword wielder to slay the evil dragon. I have a particular fondness for strategists, mainly because they are self-made men (and women), relying on their own skills and wits than a prophesized power lying dormant in them. Even if Robin was bred to be a vessel, his/her tactical prowess had nothing to do with it, owing only to their dedication and intuitiative understanding. It's a shame Awakening never got to present him/her in all his/her glory (instead we have to pick up the subtle hints), but at least it was better there than in Fates.

[Jagged Jagen]

Not royal, not an amnesiac, but rather a character of which you have control. Select Gender and Name, that's it!

The protagonist starts at the bottom of the foodchain in a great war, and must rise up the ranks. The choices made impact your position at endgame, and the people who are willing to fight alongside you.

[Rapier]

I don't think it is possible to have a player insert who happens to be a well written character. If anyone has a counterexample, I'd like to learn more about. Since they are made by the player with the purpose of representing the player's tastes, they can't be developped properly by the narrative, otherwise the writer would be meddling with the way I set my character to be. So, they need to leave it ambiguous, for the player to have as much freedom as possible. And that freedom leads to the bland, emotionless characters that everyone complains about.

The former case represents FE12's Chris well. On FE13 and FE14, it seems there is a bit of executive meddling in the player characters, but they still have parts that feel hollow because of the freedom given to the players to set their characters as they see fit.

Hence why I prefer a character made entirely by the writer, like most FE protagonists. That way they can make them as they see fit, instead of just leaving an empty husk for someone to pick and customize.

[Jedi]

Lets have any protagonists before FE12 and we'll be good in the future, even if they are plain ripoffs of those protagonists they are already much better written than Kris, Robin and Kamui.

[Rapier]

And preferably leave the story as the writer from the original script originally wrote, instead of replacing interesting things and narrative with otaku pandering and skinship options for touching your 12 year-old sister.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Rapier

[-Cynthia-]

I think developers like Bioware and Obsidian have created games with player-made protagonists that are considered to have strong stories. I'm sure some people will be eager to jump in and claim how terrible Dragon Age 2 was or whatever, but by and large the majority of gamers liked at least some of these self-inserts.

The big difference here is those RPGs have a more robust character creator(get to choose race, background, what have you) and most importantly they have dialogue options which both allow the player to determine the personality for their protagonist and gives the player some choice over the direction of the story. This is a lot more dialogue to write though, which may not be feasible given how many characters FE tends to have and how the gameplay is structured. I don't think 'fixing' self-inserts is as simple as having 'better writing'.

Additionally, I don't think protagonists are the only problem- I don't think FE12 or FE13(reserving judgment on Fates for now).have very good plots in the first place which doesn't provide much room for the Avatar.

[Refa]

I don't think it is possible to have a player insert who happens to be a well written character. If anyone has a counterexample, I'd like to learn more about. Since they are made by the player with the purpose of representing the player's tastes, they can't be developped properly by the narrative, otherwise the writer would be meddling with the way I set my character to be. So, they need to leave it ambiguous, for the player to have as much freedom as possible. And that freedom leads to the bland, emotionless characters that everyone complains about.

Denam Pavel (Tactics Ogre).

[blah the Prussian]

Let them be ambitious. Seriously, I want a character who it is possible to see as a bad guy. Like say an enlightened monarch who frees his people from serfdom but then attacks the other feudal states to liberate their serfs. Overall, though, I think that people who say there should be more choices don't go far enough. Basically what I propose is that every faction be able to make choices that affect the course of the war so that no two playthroughs are the same. Like say for example in playthrough 1 country x and country y ally with each other against country z but in playthrough 2 the opposite happens. I think that could provide for some really interesting gameplay, as well as having the story play itself out through the AI. That also conveniently avoids any plot holes, because everything did, in fact, actually happen.

[Taka-kun]

I too do believe the current Avatar system needs to go. I happen to like how BioWare does it well enough, but it's because they have better structure and resources, whereas FE tried (and failed) with implementing personal choices to the player and instead leaves just an empty shell of a character, too afraid to step on players' toes. It's better with a clearcut character, but different from the regular lords of the past. I find them uninteresting as well.

[Rapier]

How hard is it to have a decent character creator and relevant dialogue options in a FE game? I don't think it is that hard to accomplish. Fates actually takes a solid step on that direction, at least during the beginning. And with elements like permadeath and different routes (think of Covenant of the Plume), it can work nicely.

As for the high number of characters, IS can cut them down. We don't need over 20 characters written in a mediocre way. I'm fine with 10 decently written characters, 3 different routes and 3 different endings which depend on your choices and recruitments.

[-Cynthia-]

I think having only ten characters or so would be pretty limiting compared to past FEs in gameplay terms. It definitely could work mind you, but it would probably require a different overall approach to balance/recruitment etc.

Writing choices with significant branching content would require a lot of development time and resources(though FE does do route splits sometimes, so not out of the question). A dialogue option per chapter or so for personality purposes wouldn't be too hard though- people would complain that these choices don't mean anything but being able to characterize the Avatar would help I think.

[Azz]

I think they should either:

a) Go back to when we dd not have an avatar and just have a Lord

b)Have an avatar that actually has choices that affect the story and help portray the player better like avatars should

c)Have a silent protagonist/avatar that while having some form of defined personality, the player is still able to project onto to them e.g. the pokemon trainer or Link

But just to sum it up, don't make Kamui/Corrin again.

[Rapier]

The Avatar won't be ditched because it is so famous. It'd be counterproductive for the developpers.

So yes, branching choices here and there, dialogue choices that affect characters' relationships and might influence ingame stuff (like recruitments) sound good and not that hard to make.

[DragonLord]

I'm getting real tired of these self-insert characters with bland personality, wish they would just go back to the developer-written protagonist with interesting character development.

[Anacybele]

I'd like a female protagonist that doesn't have her spotlight taken over by a male one. Not counting Avatars. I created one myself simply for that reason. There are two male leads that have their own little arcs in the story, but ultimately, they aren't lords and the female gets the spotlight back after both. Heck, after both these arcs are done, the male leads can be lost in battle if it were a game, (though they'd retreat, not die, for sequel purposes).

Oh yeah, give the girl red hair. We don't have a female with red hair yet. Not counting Celica, who I feel has more pinkish red hair than true red hair like Eliwood or Roy. A darker red would be nice. A lot of fans seem to like redhead females too (Titania and Cordelia come to mind).

Edited November 22, 2015 by Anacybele

[Rapier]

I think having only ten characters or so would be pretty limiting compared to past FEs in gameplay terms. It definitely could work mind you, but it would probably require a different overall approach to balance/recruitment etc.

Writing choices with significant branching content would require a lot of development time and resources(though FE does do route splits sometimes, so not out of the question). A dialogue option per chapter or so for personality purposes wouldn't be too hard though- people would complain that these choices don't mean anything but being able to characterize the Avatar would help I think.

Would it? Let's compare the amount of unpromoted classes a traditional FE game has (I'm going to use FE7 as an example):

- Lord

- Mercenary

- Fighter

- Myrmidon

- Thief

- Peg. Knight

- Wyvern Knight

- Archer

- Mage

- Dancer

- Cleric

- Troubador

- Monk

- Shaman

- Cavalier

- Manakete

If I didn't forget anyone, there are 15 unpromoted classes for players. For diversity's sake, let's multiply that number by two and exclude unique classes like Lord, Manakete, Dancer, Shaman and Monk. I'll also pretend Cleric and Troubador are the same, because there's no need for 4 healer types in a game. 26 characters in total, plus a mandatory Jeigan.

I've got an idea to lower that number a bit: Include some classes as promotions instead. For example, Shaman and Monk wouldn't be base classes, but promotional classes for Mage, with adjusted bonuses of course. Wyvern Knight would be one of Pegasus Knight's promotions, as it is in FE11/12 iirc. 23 characters total, including the Jeigan. And it is still possible to take a few characters away to make it reach 20 characters in total, because not all FE games follow a "2 per class" rule.

In order to avoid stagnation, there could be a better focus on promotions, possibly including third tier promotions. I'm just not really sure 20 characters is a good enough number, or if it is still too much...

EDIT:

I forgot about Knights...

Oh well. Can't we just ditch that class forever.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Rapier

[Ryo]

I personally like the kind of hero who has done morally questionable things and is currently trying to redeem for his/her past by helping people and fighting evil etc. It's a very common archetype in media that I'm surprised FE has never done anything like that before.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Ryo

[NekoKnight]

I'm irked that Fates did so little with "the protagonist is a freaking dragon, man!" It's treated like an afterthought and will sadly mean we won't be getting another of his kind any time soon.

What I'd like to see is a manakete raised amongst humans who has to come to grips with their identity and eventually rise over humanity. Maybe they'd evolve into a reluctant dictator of sorts. "If someone must shoulder the responsibility of ruling the world, it should be me."

[Taka-kun]

I personally like the kind of hero who has done morally questionable things and is currently trying to redeem for his/her past by helping people and fighting evil etc. It's a very common archetype in media that I'm surprised FE has never done anything like that before.

I would like some alteration of that, where the protagonist believes himself to be the savior of the world and goes and does a bangup job of it, instead of being chosen in the role. Hard work and determination should triumph over blood and destiny.

[Auro Astum]

I think stepping away from player worship and being overly naive would be a good start. Avatar characters can be done right, but you need to give the players some agency in their personality or the story progression.

I will second the poster who said Denam Pavel. Heck I think FE could learn alot from Tactics Ogre when it comes to writing.

[Jotari]

I don't know why but as soon as I read the title of this thread Yoshi popped into my mind. As in the next Fire Emblem protagonist should be Yoshi. Not a Yoshi X FIre Emblem game, just the protagonist is Yoshi and everything else is typically Fire Emblem. It's a mad idea born from a deranged mind that will never happen but I find the idea of it amusing.

[TheInternetExplorer]

If the latest Fates survey shows anything, it's that the Avatar is here to stay for good.

[Pete Rose: Baseball Legend]

I really hope he/she isn't a perfect paragon of virtue that always makes the morally right choices. I'm soo tired of this in Fire Emblem games. The MC can still be the "good guy" but it'd be nice if he/she has more of an actual character arc.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Pete Rose: Baseball Legend

[Taka-kun]

Shepard of Mass Effect I feel is a good "insert", since he/she works from the bottom to achieve the position that they end up in. What I feel is important is to make the player-created character someone who eventually earns their respect as the game trudges on, just like how we invest in the game, instead of being SPESHUL from the get-go (cause I am 100% sure that I am no shapeshifting dragon and I don't have two nations vieing for my allegiance nor do I have a big sister with big assets with big issues with clinging on me).

[Sentacotus]

How about a defined character with a defined appereance and personality (no avatar) but make choices in the story that change the plot. Put em in a grey area make em a mercenary a non-noble/non-right hand man.