Trinity Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

Shinori you're probably town bc I can't see the maf having a commuter if town doesn't have a vig but wtf that was really retarded, especially bc you just chose to shoot TG... best case scenario was that you not hammering made no difference either way, in which case why not just let the lynch go through?... And worst case scenario was exactly what happened in that we lost a day phase.

##Unvote

Also the whole point of it would have been to prove my role. Otherwise I wouldn't have had anyway to prove it.

[Crysta]

that's... i don't even know yet. i have some things to take care of but i should be back.

ocean you do know what our trinity power is, right?

also don't see where there's a maf commuter? am i missing something? i know that's what tg claimed but not what she apparently is/was.

[BBM]

self-omniguard is essentially the same thing as a commuter.

dunno if I buy shinori changing from "day phase" to "phase". mafia failing their kill is iffy anyways bc BG is probably town's only protective role, so that leaves Boron's "modified hooker"; whatever that is.

[BBM]

and the self-omniguard has higher priority than the hook as we saw on n2 so yeah chances of a mafkill failing are exceedingly low.

[Shinori]

*shrug* I misstated it. But you are jumping everywhere at the moment BBM. Calm down and get your thoughts more together.

[Crysta]

uuuugh

day phase was specific

let me go run my errands. mafia is hard.

[Oceanbourne]

i'm aware but why do you ask

okay Shinori's claim is a bit sketchy but I guess I should ask something first. if we have a nolynch followed by a no kill night do you get multiple kills on the following night or are you limited to one shot per night in any case?

the logic checks out, show that there are 2 kills during the night and you get a good chance that town has a vig (I could make a case for 3rd party arsonist but not going to) and the conditional means that you won't always have a kill. still I don't think there was any significant pressure on you to have to justify your role at this point in the game, not claiming seems like the better play to me simply from a game mechanic standpoint.

I don't think I have a good way to objectively look at his change from "day phase" to "phase," I've made errors like that before but it seems oddly convenient to clarify that when asked about why you didn't just simply lynch TG

i think i had more to say but lost my train of thought

[BBM]

My thoughts are together; I'm just realizing things right after I click post. And then I have to look at the screen for like 5000000 minutes afterwards waiting for it to post.

Things that point to Shinori's role existing:

Mafia having an Omniguard would be weird without any killing power to block. Might as well make it a 2x self-safeguard then, unless you want to add a red herring or something.

Things that point to Shinori's role not existing:

Firstly, activist generally refers to lynches and not all types of deaths. In that case, considering that two no lynches lead to a UL, incentivizing a no lynch doesn't make sense. Additionally, changing words from "day phase" to "phase" is fishy. Forgetting to add specificity is one thing; providing it and then recanting it is entirely different. However, even if it was "phase", town probably doesn't have a doctor and the mafia has a 2x self-omniguard to block the hooker, which makes a mafia kill failing exceedingly unlikely as well.

And that's just role based. My reason for voting Shinori at the start of the day wasn't even role based, and he pretty much did what I've been finding scummy by popping up to defend himself and not giving any content.

[Crysta]

I'm assuming that each trinity has one person in them that knows about the others, as I had no idea that Refa was an insomniac until he posted that we all were & nightposted himself. Eclipse, I'm guessing was the same. I'm not sure why eclipse had an additional power though in the form of stumpchat.

trying to deduce why elie wasn't informed of his trinity's power and if i was the only one who was aware of it for some reason. not sure how relevant it actually is, though, because i don't see the point of him being kept in the dark (the power was fairly harmless).

now back to dinner/multi-tasking/occasionally stalking the thread while i do so

[Elieson]

ok so she wasn't a 3rd party

yo I feel like Mancer is going to sub out soon or something. adding yet another sub to this game is probably the worst thing that could happen considering our history with subs but I don't think he's going to post with content any time soon

Elieson's townread on Shinori is based on the fact that there's no need to stick your neck out there if you're mafia with a night action crumb on TG's guilt... for BBM the action reads the completely opposite way? I don't think that's the most inconspicuous way to bus your teammate

Elieson you seem to hold a strong scumread on my spot solely based on Lord Gaius' play which is...not the worst reasoning I suppose, but the fact that you don't say anything about my content especially since a large amount is addressed towards you doesn't sit well with me

yolo/omega/whatever is probably doing this thing where he will pop in towards the end of the game and come with a huge revelation as to why my slot is scum but isn't going to say anything at the present time for <mysterious reasons> I guess

I can't really argue much with what you said. Most of your stuff against me is wishy washy so I can't really present any kind of reactive self defense or anything when your logic on me is all over the place but ultimately a scumread.

Elieson - I got nothing important out of Zihuark's short stay

his #190 is shoutcasting the game up until that point with some insight here and there which on the surface looks okay but when you get to the bottom of it most of it is "x person looks fine, y thing looked a little bit weird but I think it's not too telling/scummy/harmful/whatever" his strongest read seemed to be on yolo but even then he kind of retracted his opinion by saying

Considering my shoutcasting was not even yet current (as identified by the page numbers to that point), are you saying I should have had a confident enough vote to place despite not being up to date on the game that I just subbed in to?

scumreads were pretty congruent with the wall of text they posted upon subbing in. eclipse flipped town though but despite that I thought his analysis of her was at odds with my own cause I skimmed and she seemed really pro town and a likely n1 kill target over Refa

Is this scummy?

#259 is him saying that no one agreed with his scumread on YOLO so he decides to vote Tiny instead of him. he even says "this won't be a good lynch BUT IT'S OK." even worse, "if this is a scum lynch then we're lucky and if she's town well we didn't have anyone else?" but his strongest read was on YOLO. some pretty subtle bandwagoning

actually I just noticed how close this was to the deadline and there wasn't going to be a lynch if he went for yolo so I guess that's okay, but I still very much dislike his reasoning for it, he's saying "you guys won't like this" as if he already knows what it's going to be.

I actually said:

The more I think about this, the more I kinda think it's not really going to be a great lynch but I have no reservations of voting TG since her content this phase has been limited to just answering some questions with relatively generic responses. If this turns out to be a scum lynch it'll be a really lucky one IMO but if it's town then idk I just have nothing else right now

Which isn't "You guys won't like this. Please re-read because if that's the message you're getting, I have no idea how.

maybe I can't understand his wishy-washing wording in #313 but he says that a scumread on Crysta is predicated on TG flipping scum because she said that Crysta is town because of her case on her. I guess I don't think this is scummy, I just disagree with the logic in connecting them, you'd think that as partners they would have an easier time to throw some arguments at each other rather TG pretty much sitting there and saying "yeah your case is valid I'll just take it. and because of that you can be town!"

what is important about the post is the beginning of the paragraph about TG where he again says "yeah now I really don't feel this" and then his wording seems to... contradict his opinion? he says the claim is super convenient, which is what strikes me as him not believing her commuter claim, and further says that mafia commuter in a game not too big on roles is possible. then he turns the other way and talks about her attitudes and the timing of the (very minimal and not at all convincing at least to me) post making him feel like he should not lynch that slot

Am I actually scummy for anything here?

In particular, am I scummy for this? You just negated'd your own argument for me being scummy here so ????

verdict: not a bad scum partner, where he jumps on the lynch with easily generalized reasoning at the end of d2 because no one else to vote (although it's excused because of the time constraint) and then turns away from TG to put the vote on... oh that's my slot. I haven't paid much attention to Gaius as of this point but I should probably go see what my predecessor played like. it's going to be quite awkward to defend points directed at someone who isn't me.

If that's what you think then ok. I disagree but moreso, I find your rational for your scumread on me based on TG to not be very good. I've done plenty of other things in this game that could be viewed as scummy, I honestly think that my flipflopping of confidence and believing TG's roleclaim given the evidence of the now-flipped town!Boron should actually be very difficult to ascertain, and that I should require more analysis from other activity of mine before having a read of any kind thrown on me.

[Elieson]

there's been absolutely no sign of an ITP and one doesn't really make sense with the numbers; the bit about potential *YLO in the rules could be for any number of things other than an ITP.

@Elie- but like you said, Shinori's role crumb was completely unnecessary; TG was getting lynched anyways. Overkill is the perfect term- his info wasn't necessary and could easily have been a bus. I don't think it clears him at all, and when you pair that with the fact that other than a small burst of content on D2 he's basically done nothing and popped up only when people prod him, he's feeling worse and worse to me.

TBH I don't know which is worse but a vote on Mancer isn't going to get any sort of response from him probably. If you guys are finally cool with lynching mancer for breaking his content-promise three days in a row now I'm more than willing to consolidate there though. I think my scumlist is Mancer/Shinori > Gaius/Omega atm.

It could be but given what we've seen so far, it's not worth ignoring.

IMO Shinori could've just hopped on the wagon and not even crumbed at the time, and she'd still likely have been lynched. Given his roleclaim, I'm even more curious about it now.

Even if Mancer's busy, interactions exist.

I'll go ahead and claim now since I feel like I should.

I didn't originally hammer TG two days ago because of my role. I'm an activist vig. I get a shot every day phase no one dies. Not hammering TG was so i could get a shot, which I then attempted to use on TG which failed, obviously because of her omniguard shiz.

Omniguard needs to protect from something, right? Doesn't actually mean that the role is town though

Do you still have this shot?

My thoughts are together; I'm just realizing things right after I click post. And then I have to look at the screen for like 5000000 minutes afterwards waiting for it to post.

Things that point to Shinori's role existing:

Mafia having an Omniguard would be weird without any killing power to block. Might as well make it a 2x self-safeguard then, unless you want to add a red herring or something.

Things that point to Shinori's role not existing:

Firstly, activist generally refers to lynches and not all types of deaths. In that case, considering that two no lynches lead to a UL, incentivizing a no lynch doesn't make sense. Additionally, changing words from "day phase" to "phase" is fishy. Forgetting to add specificity is one thing; providing it and then recanting it is entirely different. However, even if it was "phase", town probably doesn't have a doctor and the mafia has a 2x self-omniguard to block the hooker, which makes a mafia kill failing exceedingly unlikely as well.

And that's just role based. My reason for voting Shinori at the start of the day wasn't even role based, and he pretty much did what I've been finding scummy by popping up to defend himself and not giving any content.

Sing it with me folks: I'm totally agreeing with BBM again. Though the last line, I can see BBM's point and other than the rolecrumb & TG vote, he hasn't really done much.

I think I wayyy too quickly pinned Shinori as obvitown.

trying to deduce why elie wasn't informed of his trinity's power and if i was the only one who was aware of it for some reason. not sure how relevant it actually is, though, because i don't see the point of him being kept in the dark (the power was fairly harmless).

now back to dinner/multi-tasking/occasionally stalking the thread while i do so

Odds are, it's actually related to my other ability (which several of you in game are aware of now). I can insomnia!chat + each Day phase & each Night phase, I can pick a player and gain OC with them via a private neighborhood aka QT. I'd been talking to boron; I know what her Role Variant iswas. I have shared with nobody, and I dunno why she died other than that she was really really townie

D1: Izhuark idled

N1: Refa

D2: BBM

N2: Boron

D3: Crysta

N3: Mancer

I haven't yet picked Shinori/Quote/Omega/GaiusOcean because

• I feel like I wouldn't get much from Shinori in OC that he wouldn't just post in thread, given my meta of him and his current posting habits. I want everything he says to be public, and really I'm townreading him on the TG overkill which I only discovered today
• Quote because I no longer think talking to somebody from my trinity is going to give me that much in terms of info tbh. With Refa, I basically subbed in with 0 understanding of the game and picked him, and phase ended like 1 minute later
• Omega, I have a hard time grasping his playstyle and don't have much to talk to him about in private since I can barely get him to elaborate on his reads in thread
• Gaius/Ocean, just not trusting enough and it was basically him or Mancer, and I hoped Mancer might open up a bit in OC if he wasn't being pressured from 50 angles and respond to 1-on-1 pressure differently

Also I didn't pick eclipse ever because scumreading + timezone chat with her is hard enough as it is

[Elieson]

I didn't originally hammer TG two days ago because of my role. I'm an activist vig. I get a shot every day phase no one dies. Not hammering TG was so i could get a shot, which I then attempted to use on TG which failed, obviously because of her omniguard shiz.

Wait a minute. This is the worst logic since dondont151 tried defending himself with low turn counts

I didn't hammer TG because I just wanted to shoot TG myself, and it failed so *shrug*

One, it robs town of info early and for no reason.

Two, if TG flipped scum via hammer then shinori could try this again at a later time anyway

Mancer vote can wait; he's not around and this takes way more precedence.

##Unvote

##Vote Shinori

[Crysta]

okay i'm back

uhh... bbm sort of hammered the case home and provided setup spec i can follow, which makes this actually feel redundant. i'm not sure how proving your role by depriving us of a lynch is a good thing (why not just participate in the game and be townie first? it was still early in the game) and putting us one step closer to a UL isn't exactly appreciated either. it was deliberate: he never intended to consolidate like he offered to minutes before the end of the phase. via/quote doesn't look good in that regard, either. i'm beginning to think the actual vigilante is an inactive slot.

thoughts, yolo? are you actually going to share them? i know you were eyeing a lynch between shinori or elie so i'd like to know if this revelation changes anything in your eyes.

two nine-hour work days coming up for me, but i'll try to log in as much as i can. it shouldn't be too late when i get back home but i'll probably be dead tired.

[BBM]

the only really "inactive" slot is Mancer at this point. I don't think Shinori would claim vig if it wasn't given to him as a fakeclaim; it's too risky. If Shinori is scum we probably don't have a vig.

ocean, who is scum? Also, iirc you thought that Elie's stance on TG was suspicious and that's why you were scumreading him on D3. How does that change with TG flipping scum?

[Shinori]

Yeah I still have a shot. I meant to use it last night but forgot to send in my action because I was sick yesterday.

I was puking and sick since two days ago. Feeling a lot better now.

Apparently BBM thinks I'd actually claim activist vig as a fake claim.

I haven't read a whole lot of these posts in detail but something that caught my eye was BBM talking about me fake claiming this. For real though, have I ever fake claimed something like activist vig? Ever? Generally when I fake claim something as scum in a bad position it was always something that I could use to try and get pressure onto someone else. Or a role that could be either town or scum

Not an activist vig. I wouldn't even come up with something like that on my own, realistically I would have claimed to be a regular vig and you know this to be a fact.

Also considering we are not in mylo/lylo we could always let me just use my vig shot tonight to prove my role seeing as there are definitely other people worth lynching at the moment. I'm pretty sure proving my role as being a vig would answer any question as to if I'm town or not.

[Shinori]

Wait a minute. This is the worst logic since dondont151 tried defending himself with low turn counts

I didn't hammer TG because I just wanted to shoot TG myself, and it failed so *shrug*

One, it robs town of info early and for no reason.

Two, if TG flipped scum via hammer then shinori could try this again at a later time anyway

Mancer vote can wait; he's not around and this takes way more precedence.

##Unvote

##Vote Shinori

1: not counting the omniguard it would have still granted town info knowing that there was a vig in the game (I wouldn't have had to claim) As well as TG still would have died.

2: I don't think I would potentially risk something like that late into the game unless it were heavily safe to. The reason I did it then was because it was fairly early and safe to do so without much drawbacks.

If this is your only reason against me then I think we have an issue. You're voting me because you believe me role and that I was dumb.

If you believe me role that means you are trying to lynch someone you believe to be a vig and you believe to be scum. Which means you think I'm a scum vig.

If you believe my role there is litearlly zero reason for you to even bother voting me. Point and fact.

[Shinori]

Wait a minute. This is the worst logic since dondont151 tried defending himself with low turn counts

So about that bad logic thing.

[Shinori]

Yeah, I'm not gonna let that one slide elie. That jump from reading me as town to wanting to lynch me for my role in one post is just too much.

Gonna reread Elies posts in a bit, but that's scummy as fuck.

[charlie_]

best votals euw
(2) Shinori: BBM, Elieson
(6) Not Voting: 6 of you losers

8 alive/5 to lynch.

Time check.

Gonna look for prods now.

[Elieson]

1: not counting the omniguard it would have still granted town info knowing that there was a vig in the game (I wouldn't have had to claim) As well as TG still would have died.

2: I don't think I would potentially risk something like that late into the game unless it were heavily safe to. The reason I did it then was because it was fairly early and safe to do so without much drawbacks.

If this is your only reason against me then I think we have an issue. You're voting me because you believe me role and that I was dumb.

If you believe me role that means you are trying to lynch someone you believe to be a vig and you believe to be scum. Which means you think I'm a scum vig.

If you believe my role there is litearlly zero reason for you to even bother voting me. Point and fact.

1. What was the point of not lynching TG then? If you're town and had died overnight, then what? The only benefit to you being incredibly selfish

2. Why would you even attempt

I believe that either

--your claim is real and your actions are not townie

--your claim is generally real and your actions still aren't townie

Yeah, I'm not gonna let that one slide elie. That jump from reading me as town to wanting to lynch me for my role in one post is just too much.

Gonna reread Elies posts in a bit, but that's scummy as fuck.

You're scummy as fuck bro. You basically shoved your thumb up town's ass and are trying to justify it by telling everyone "Hey all I don't give a damn about the game I just wanna play with my role power some", which is simultaneously not town and scummy because it's not helping town to hinder information like that, and also perpetuates the survival of a player of whom at the time, you only had one thought of "weirdness" at the time. It's selfish and selfish and selfish.

##Unvote

I think I did over-react though. I swear paperblade had this same kind of role once and I'm 99% sure it was town. Shinori can at least prove himself by shooting somebody worth shooting [hell me, if it helps town snap off of me and onto actual scumhunting despite the whole non-announcing of Potential *YLO]. If Shinori's anything that isn't town, it's probably ITP then.

I'm gonna take a fresh look at things later on

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

hadda rough night. ill b here later but i like where this is going

[Shinori]

1. What was the point of not lynching TG then? If you're town and had died overnight, then what? The only benefit to you being incredibly selfish

2. Why would you even attempt

I believe that either

--your claim is real and your actions are not townie

--your claim is generally real and your actions still aren't townie

You're scummy as fuck bro. You basically shoved your thumb up town's ass and are trying to justify it by telling everyone "Hey all I don't give a damn about the game I just wanna play with my role power some", which is simultaneously not town and scummy because it's not helping town to hinder information like that, and also perpetuates the survival of a player of whom at the time, you only had one thought of "weirdness" at the time. It's selfish and selfish and selfish.

##Unvote

I think I did over-react though. I swear paperblade had this same kind of role once and I'm 99% sure it was town. Shinori can at least prove himself by shooting somebody worth shooting [hell me, if it helps town snap off of me and onto actual scumhunting despite the whole non-announcing of Potential *YLO]. If Shinori's anything that isn't town, it's probably ITP then.

I'm gonna take a fresh look at things later on

1: Chances of me dying were astronomically low. People suspected me and there was zero risk of me dying to scum, and defintely not to a vig since I'm said vig. Thus your first point is kind of invalid.

2:?

So you believe my claim is real, glad we understand each other. I wouldn't say they aren't townie. Let's go about this another way. Let's say the game goes until LYLO and its me and 2 other people or something like that and I claim. Well an activist vig claiming in lylo is virtually impossible to prove and if there were no vig shots beforehand that fucking sucks. It then HAMPERS TOWN IMMENSELY. But I mean. Logic amirite?

Your next line is so far off the mark it's not even funny. Scummy and "Not smart" are two different things. The stuff you state which you are saying is scummy is actually something by your standards you should be saying is just really stupid, not scummy. Thus saying I'm scummy as fuck for false reasoning doesn't matter and it's just you trying to make me look worse for zero reason, especially since you unvoted me in the same post. Why would you attempt to make me look worse while unvoting me? And if I didn't care for the game at all I just would have subbed out a bit ago. Actually putting thought into this ahead of time so town doesn't get fucked over for zero reason later in the game I would put as CARING for the game. I'm not gonna say anything else about this paragraph because honestly most of the paragraph wasn't needed. It honestly looks like fake anger to make me look bad. You put a lot of effort into that post and into that paragraph in saying things that make me look awful through your poor reasoning and poor logic. You see I keep using that word logic and I keep making this paragraph longer because this is what you are doing. ;D

Moving on:

##Vote: Elie

[Elieson]

I don't even remember what I was going to say for 2. god

Usually you care more about games that give you a cool role. You usually just care/don't care for the game based on like, what's going on with you as far as League goes. Tell me otherwise, if I'm wrong.

I'm about to leave to take Tyler to a movie + Basketball Game (Houston Rockets aren't too bad this season) but I'm not letting this go now.

I'll call your play bad and scummy if it's bad and scummy. Having a not-likely-to-be-mafia role doesn't excuse your role shenanigans. Having TG dead during the lynch which you evidently had the power to control could minimize killer options and help a theoretical hooker (which Boron fucking was and was alive at the time) to actually hook a kill and help town even more.

But you didn't. You sat on your vote and because of that the chances for town to get killed my a greater and more unpredictable pool of scum was higher. This benefits scum aka nontown because *see reason above*, ergo, it's scummy. If you're town, it's bad play because there is no need for you to stockpile a vig shot.

Vote for me all you want. This is a fact and you know it.

I'll throw this out to the game so you all can consider stuff while I'm out.

Boron was Hooker + 1x Masshooker. She told me via my alternative neighborize thingy. She also told me she didn't submit an action N1. I don't have any further action history for her

[BBM]

I assumed that Shinori had lost his shot upon targeting TG. I guess I'm okay with letting him prove his role tonight.

Shinori, what are your thoughts about Crysta now that TG has flipped scum?

Not okay with letting him use it on Elie though. Elie has the towniest interactions with flipped scum in the thread. Shinori, if you're town- your choice to let TG not get lynched was bad and anti-town. Deal with it and stop getting mad when people call you out on your bad logic.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Mancer

this is the way to go I guess

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

i should claim

i hav the power to empower my vote. i started off with a +1 power so if i used it immediately i would have a doublevote. each night i go w/o using it grants me an extra vote so if i used it now id have +4 to my vote or some shit

im saying this cuz i immediately saw myself as the games vig when reading my role pm but now shinori claims to be. i figure this info is pertinent to the current discussion