Media is going down a dark road

[Alex95]

I know a few posts have been locked from talking about stuff like this, but bare with me for a bit.

Lately in the world of media (and really in life in general) it seems like anything goes. Take the recent Fire Emblem: Awakening for example. Nintendo and it's partners are known for being more on the family-friendly side of things. Sure, Conker's Bad Fur Day came out on the 64 way back when, but that was in less controversial times, I guess. Back to FE, because off who my family and I are, we really don't like characters like Tharja (very revealing clothing) or Basilio and Sully (swearing). I see these types of characters EVERYWHERE and can't seem to avoid them nowadays. My brother's been "sucked into" more violent or dark games and anime, such as Metal Gear and Death Note, and he doesn't seem to see it as "bad" or "wrong."

I know everyone has their own taste in things, but lately... It seems like the entire world is thinking "If we include a girl with little covering, it'll be a hit!" or "People will love blood spewing out of this guy when his head gets cut off!" I don't know where morality stands today. I also know that there are ratings that help identify what could be in the game/show, but that doesn't seem to help much. It's taking a lot of effort to make my own game clean as well, as I have to try and avoid any and all sorts of "controversialness." It's just getting hard to work with the world today. So much that it seems like I'm fighting it and I don't know what to do other than be myself.

People are raiding each other, stealing from each other, putting subliminal pornographic messages in games, showing more of a character than is needed in shows... The world is failing. Big time.

[bookofholsety]

look normally i'd happily be the first to shit all over fe13 but

or Basilio and Sully (swearing)

how old are you? seriously, we're talking a couple of "asses", "craps" and "damns" here. hardly worth calling THE END TIMES

Edited November 23, 2015 by bookofholsety

[Lord Raven]

I think the issue with revealing clothing is that it shows a degree of pandering and it's only there for fanservice. Doesn't make it bad, but in some cases that is a symptom of a greater problem. In this sense, I agree.

I don't think swearing and showing blood is particularly bad unless it's done just for the hell of it. I think it makes sense for a lot of things, but it can get excessive. It's also more realistic for people to swear all the time believe it or not. I've been in a bunch of places where people - older, actually, from your parents' generation - will swear with no regard for anything except in a professional environment. Someone told me that I needed to do something otherwise my work would be seen as bullshit, and I had a physics lecture where the first sentence was "Before we all started to formulate things using Newton's Laws, our assessment of things was shit happens." I think that's just not immoral at all, it's just not called for in all situations.

My mom has also sweared a lot while I was growing up, half the time in our native language (Urdu) so the world just didn't suddenly change. Some of my uncles don't avoid it either. The only reason they told us not to swear was because they didn't want us to get in trouble at school in all honesty and I don't think teachers were ever very filtered back when they were growing up either. Media itself might have less censors, but people have been swearing for a long ass time in every place possible.

I'd also like to note that most of FE13 is "damn" and "hell" anyway which were used fairly gratuitously in FE10's translation. They haven't gone into "fuck" and "shit" territory at all and I highly doubt they will, but I think if it makes sense then I won't care for it.

Now, sometimes blood is excessive and you end up seeing more blood than you probably should have, and this makes things needlessly edgy. Any war game with a bunch of swearing is probably more realistic than MGS even - a bunch of war acronyms (snafu comes to mind) incorporate swears and war itself is a mess of language that seems to make you cringe.

Also violence has been in just about every form of media for a long time, ever read a Shakespeare play? Just about everyone dies pretty brutally in Hamlet.

I wouldn't advise adding shit like that for the sake of it, but don't go out of your way to avoid it either if it seems natural.

how old are you?

He's 20 which is why it surprises me. Edited November 23, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Baldrick]

It seems today that all we see is violence in movies and sex on TV. But where are those good old-fashioned values on which we used to rely?

OP I'm not sure what to say apart from look for more wholesome media?

[Ansem]

i thought we were going to talk about news media in here but we're just supposed to cry about how video games are not as family friendly.

if this was a news media topic id have so much content.

but this isnt something new. fire emblem is only this way because its gotten a lot more popular. and its gotten a lot more popular as a result of this. kinda circular imo

Edited November 23, 2015 by :smug:

[Original Alear]

Are you sure that this is actually a new development? Or is it just something you're becoming more cognizant of? Either way, I find it hard to worry about fiction for the most part as though its content is a serious problem with the world. I think.

[ZoesMad]

The thing with this is that if everything was sunshine and roses it wouldn't be an accurate depiction of the world today. Using your Death Note example, the goal of that anime isn't to say "oh you know what would be fun lets mass murder a bunch of people because killing is fun and audiences dig that," it's a battle of ideals with themes of corruption and how people who gain power for a noble cause can be driven into darker paths.

I think if you want you can definitely find forms of media and entertainment that suit your personal interests, but don't just disregard "darker" stories/experiences.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Lord Gaius

[Tryhard]

I'm going to guess that you come from a family where exposure to violence, sexuality or aggression is not common place.

There's a reason why fiction usually depicts more interesting things then real life, even if its deplorable acts, and those are being normalized. It's either to show how shit the fictional world is, or just because it's entertaining or fun. Movies and books have been doing this for far longer than video games ever have. I think the attempt to point at games and criticize them for that (especially when they don't for other forms of media) is silly, because the creators probably most of the time don't even take it into consideration as something out of place.

Trust me, there's a lot of times that I think female characters are depicted as looking very dumb in games etc but it's the developers decision. If it bothers you that much the resolution is simple: don't buy that game. There's always been fiction depicting some pretty nasty stuff. A Clockwork Orange, for example.

[EricaofRenais]

I think you should just stick to keeping track of the ratings of what you want to play, watch or read. Games, anime and manga have very good ratings and the only problem is people tend to ignore them and then get mad at what is in what they are using, I mean if you don't like certain things don't buy something with a high rating like M. By the way while I have only read a few DeathNote manga I have a very modest friend who loves DeathNote and from what I have read it is not that dark compared to some of the manga/anime I read/watch. And I personally like Sully because she seems very like a real solder, in that sorry but solders in real life do swear a lot and the swearing in FE:A is very tame compared to other games I have played.

[Leona]

With all the people.... doing whatever they're doing, I think I'll just go ahead and say I agree with you. At least with video games. I liked the Fire Emblem character designs. Liked. Past tense. They've gone way too far into fanservice territory for me to be able to tolerate.

[Alex95]

look normally i'd happily be the first to shit all over fe13 but

how old are you? seriously, we're talking a couple of "asses", "craps" and "damns" here. hardly worth calling THE END TIMES

"Crap" is about as much of a swear word as you'll get out of me, seeing as it really isn't one? It's essentially a nicer way of saying "S***" which in turn just means poop.

I'm going to guess that you come from a family where exposure to violence, sexuality or aggression is not common place.

There's a reason why fiction usually depicts more interesting things then real life, even if its deplorable acts, and those are being normalized. It's either to show how shit the fictional world is, or just because it's entertaining or fun. Movies and books have been doing this for far longer than video games ever have. I think the attempt to point at games and criticize them for that (especially when they don't for other forms of media) is silly, because the creators probably most of the time don't even take it into consideration as something out of place.

Trust me, there's a lot of times that I think female characters are depicted as looking very dumb in games etc but it's the developers decision. If it bothers you that much the resolution is simple: don't buy that game. There's always been fiction depicting some pretty nasty stuff. A Clockwork Orange, for example.

I get that fiction is a common place to go for escapism. You just want to get out of the real world, but lately, I'm finding they're both pretty much the same. The only difference being we're out here and not in there. And I get that we can just "not buy the game," but I knew very little of Awakening when I bought it, didn't bother doing research. I bought it because "Hey! I can bring back the older heroes!" and now I hardly use them :P

With all the people.... doing whatever they're doing, I think I'll just go ahead and say I agree with you. At least with video games. I liked the Fire Emblem character designs. Liked. Past tense. They've gone way too far into fanservice territory for me to be able to tolerate.

Yes. Fanservice is definitely a problem more today than it was before. Now people are requesting things like what you would normally see as "hentai" be put into, say, a Mario game.

And before you ask, no I have not deliberately looked up hentai. I'm pretty sure I've stated I'm not that kind of person. But it does come up when I do image searches, unfortunately. Safesearch does nothing so I'll just stick to the wikis...

And Death Note was a poor example, I know.

I know I was going to get a lot of crap for this, but I'd figure I'd see just exactly what you guys think too.

[Lord Raven]

Yes. Fanservice is definitely a problem more today than it was before. Now people are requesting things like what you would normally see as "hentai" be put into, say, a Mario game.

Uhh... what?

EDIT: Do you play anything but Nintendo games primarily? Just curious. Because I think there were a good number of PS1 games that definitely had some of the stuff you were mentioning. See: FF7, which came out in 1997.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Parrhesia]

Yes. Fanservice is definitely a problem more today than it was before. Now people are requesting things like what you would normally see as "hentai" be put into, say, a Mario game.

_{[citation needed]}

[Soapbar]

_{[citation needed]}

You could pretty much apply to this to most of his post. Especially this part:

I get that fiction is a common place to go for escapism. You just want to get out of the real world, but lately, I'm finding they're both pretty much the same. The only difference being we're out here and not in there.

Your having a pretty massive overreaction to uh... what again? Ultra-Violence and Sex in the media isn't a new thing, it's been incredibly prevalent since the 80's maybe even 70's and you could reasonably argue it was a lot worse in 80's and 90's because not only was it everywhere it was goddamn glorified unlike nowadays where big tits and pointless ultra-gore is mostly considered taboo. Our hero for a while was a emotionless robot who did nothing except kill. He was called the Terminator.

We now have a lot more heroes that are less violent or at the very least aren't the ultra-violent masculine power-houses of the 80's. Uncensored Sex scenes and nudity are a lot rarer I find (then again I haven't watch TV in ages) and people will shit all over a game if a female character has even the slightest bit of cleavage.

"People are raiding each other, stealing from each other, putting subliminal pornographic messages in games, showing more of a character than is needed in shows... The world is failing. Big time."

This is pretty much the "Violence is [insert media format here] is making people violent in real life!" shtick that 80's soccer moms and Jack Thompson used to spout. It was a bad argument then and it's a bad argument here.

"My brother's been "sucked into" more violent or dark games and anime, such as Metal Gear and Death Note, and he doesn't seem to see it as "bad" or "wrong."

Well, I'd assume your brother is a mentally stable human being capable of distinguishing fiction from reality and knows that the things he can do in Metal Gear or Fallout he can't do in real life without serious repercussions.

[Alex95]

As many of you might have realized, I'm no good with words. What I try to explain normally doesn't come across correctly.

Your having a pretty massive overreaction to uh... what again? Ultra-Violence and Sex in the media isn't a new thing, it's been incredibly prevalent since the 80's maybe even 70's and you could reasonably argue it was a lot worse in 80's and 90's because not only was it everywhere it was goddamn glorified unlike nowadays where big tits and pointless ultra-gore is mostly considered taboo. Our hero for a while was a emotionless robot who did nothing except kill. He was called the Terminator.

We now have a lot more heroes that are less violent or at the very least aren't the ultra-violent masculine power-houses of the 80's. Uncensored Sex scenes and nudity are a lot rarer I find (then again I haven't watch TV in ages) and people will shit all over a game if a female character has even the slightest bit of cleavage.

I know it's not a new thing. That doesn't make it okay.

"People are raiding each other, stealing from each other, putting subliminal pornographic messages in games, showing more of a character than is needed in shows... The world is failing. Big time."

This is pretty much the "Violence is [insert media format here] is making people violent in real life!" shtick that 80's soccer moms and Jack Thompson used to spout. It was a bad argument then and it's a bad argument here.

That's not quite what I meant. I meant it's easy to put suggestive content in media nowadays and pass it off as, well, passable.

"My brother's been "sucked into" more violent or dark games and anime, such as Metal Gear and Death Note, and he doesn't seem to see it as "bad" or "wrong."

Well, I'd assume your brother is a mentally stable human being capable of distinguishing fiction from reality and knows that the things he can do in Metal Gear or Fallout he can't do in real life without serious repercussions.

He knows the difference, but I can't vouch for the "mentally stable" part...

[Lord Raven]

As many of you might have realized, I'm no good with words. What I try to explain normally doesn't come across correctly.

No, we get you, but we think your points are kind of absurd.

I know it's not a new thing. That doesn't make it okay.

This also doesn't mean our media is going down a dark road, because it was already there in the first place. You're acting as if this is something new when it's been prevalent since your parents have been alive.

That's not quite what I meant. I meant it's easy to put suggestive content in media nowadays and pass it off as, well, passable.

What is wrong with that, then?

EDIT: I'd like to note that your comment about people raiding and stealing from one another sounded really odd in context and somehow attributed to this. Also, people have been raiding and stealing from one another for god knows how long, and there were entire civilizations whose actions were basically based off of this. You're just exaggerating it because of more access to media, when in reality it has been about the same or worse before the media became easily accessible.

He knows the difference, but I can't vouch for the "mentally stable" part...

Don't go throwing this label around unless you actual mean it. Edited November 24, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Skynstein]

OP, did you just come out of a cryogenic chamber after staying frozen for 30 years?

Fire Emblem: Awakening is a game made by Japanese companies aimed primarily at Japanese people. Hence Nowi and Tharja. I'm pretty sure it was rated T, actually, so what's the problem with a bit of skin showing here and there? In fact, Nintendo of America did a fair bit of censoring before selling the game in the West.

You better not get anywhere near Fates, then. The fanservice there is far worse.

There have been cruel things in most mythologies, from Greek to Egyptian, and even in the Bible. Humans have been doing this for millennia, and will continue to do so.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Cerberus87

[Soapbar]

"I know it's not a new thing. That doesn't make it okay."

But your certainly acting like it is. And give me one good reason why it's not okay.

"That's not quite what I meant. I meant it's easy to put suggestive content in media nowadays and pass it off as, well, passable."

It was always easy to do that, the only difference is you can do it in Video Games now.

"He knows the difference, but I can't vouch for the "mentally stable" part..."

This means precisely what then?

Also, please don't type your responses inside the quote please.

[eclipse]

Didn't read the topic, but got a request from TC to lock it. If I have any other thoughts, I'll post 'em here.

EDIT:

My thoughts - Times change, values change, cultures change. In certain cultures way back when, topless women were the norm. Doesn't mean they are now, and doesn't mean that the values you grew up with are the norm right now. It's not always a bad thing, either.

Edited November 24, 2015 by eclipse