Spoilers If you could changed the Characters, how would you change them?

[Uchu~]

I would absolutely change how Camilla is.

I find it annoying that she's trying to pursue Kamui even though she is his *sister*.

The only other character I would change is Joker. Most people find him relatable and hilarious, but I find it annoying that his life is centered around one person and that he never socializes with anyone else.

[Ebony]

Yesss! She's just fun to read. When you've got all these relatively good/normal/predictable characters interacting with each other, I think it's nice to have someone who mixes that up, even if that means the character herself doesn't behave... heroically. Same reason I like Joker, Camilla, and Zero.

I loathe Pieri. Aside from my bias of just utterly hating everything she stands for though, she doesn't really... meld well with Marxander to me. He'll do anything for Garon and Nohr, yeah, but he doesn't strike me as the type of person who'd let a mass murderer off scott free, basically waving it away with "thats our Pieri~!"

[nyainou]

I'd make Zero a little less skeevy. Less of a piece of shit. Ya'know? We already have Tharja 2.0. We don't need another creep. ..And this is coming from someone who loves Zero more than any other Fates' character.

Also, I'd make Pieri a lot less cringe worthy. Henry was cute, Pieri is just. eugh.

[GrayClouds23]

I'd make Zero a little less skeevy. Less of a piece of shit. Ya'know? We already have Tharja 2.0. We don't need another creep. ..And this is coming from someone who loves Zero more than any other Fates' character.

Also, I'd make Pieri a lot less cringe worthy. Henry was cute, Pieri is just. eugh.

I sense some sexism going on, nah just joking. Still my poor waifu, I will always love you Pieri, we could go on a killing spree, as long as we kill people who are useless to society~

[Midori Mage]

Considering that I really wanted to like Felicia but was a bit disappointed by the whole, "I'm a bloody klutz as a maid", being a majority of her personality, I would like to put a better emphasis on the fact that she is a good fighter, as seen in very few of her supports. ​And make her strength growth reflect that like wtf girl 10%?!

Joker, Jakob, whatever, I have not seen anyone who can be such an asshole to people in any FE game except maybe Shinon. At the very least, make him just a teeny bit nicer to some of the potential wives and Deere or it's to the forever alone spot.

I'd like it if Tsukuyomi wasn't such an arrogant kid like Ricken.

And mainly what everyone else has said about Pieri.

Edited December 8, 2015 by MidoriMage

[NekoKnight]

Hm... allow me to break up the intensity of this thread with a completely tasteless (and almost certainly offensive) joke.

This is the first thing I thought of when I read this post.

Y u do dis, Grimalkenkid?

[blinkingbrave]

I loathe Pieri. Aside from my bias of just utterly hating everything she stands for though, she doesn't really... meld well with Marxander to me. He'll do anything for Garon and Nohr, yeah, but he doesn't strike me as the type of person who'd let a mass murderer off scott free, basically waving it away with "thats our Pieri~!"

Eh, imo, it's not out of nowhere for Marx. If anything his decision to take on Pieri helps show a few of the softer layers Marx usually hides under his duty-bound, prim and proper prince persona. For all his hard facade, underneath... he's still got traces of that squishy, emotional, crybaby kid that he never entirely got around to crushing. And he's a character that wants to act on his convictions. He picked Pieri initially not so much for logical reasons (else their support suggests other candidates should have been chosen) but for emotional ones, tied in to his past retainers. And then you've got Pieri's support with Kamui to show that he kept her because he saw (or wanted to believe he saw) kindness in her.

I don't think it's so much Marx waving away her tendencies as some silly lil quirk, and more Marx needing to believe that Pieri's more than her actions. Which would correlate with his soft-hearted idealistic tendencies and his own dilemma associated with the disparity between his actions and his beliefs.

tl;dr Marx definitely picked Pieri (their support confirms that), and the decision is probably more to accentuate the softer parts of his personality (and also to redeem Pieri, somewhat, but that's neither here nor there for this).

[Ebony]

Eh, imo, it's not out of nowhere for Marx. If anything his decision to take on Pieri helps show a few of the softer layers Marx usually hides under his duty-bound, prim and proper prince persona. For all his hard facade, underneath... he's still got traces of that squishy, emotional, crybaby kid that he never entirely got around to crushing. And he's a character that wants to act on his convictions. He picked Pieri initially not so much for logical reasons (else their support suggests other candidates should have been chosen) but for emotional ones, tied in to his past retainers. And then you've got Pieri's support with Kamui to show that he kept her because he saw (or wanted to believe he saw) kindness in her.

I don't think it's so much Marx waving away her tendencies as some silly lil quirk, and more Marx needing to believe that Pieri's more than her actions. Which would correlate with his soft-hearted idealistic tendencies and his own dilemma associated with the disparity between his actions and his beliefs.

tl;dr Marx definitely picked Pieri (their support confirms that), and the decision is probably more to accentuate the softer parts of his personality (and also to redeem Pieri, somewhat, but that's neither here nor there for this).

Unfortunately for him, her supports don't seem to show that he's right in this. Depending on how long she'd work with him, I would have had her dropped. And in jail. You don't just let psychos run around killing maids and butlers and talking about how fun it was if they continue to do it.

[Grimalkenkid]

Y u do dis, Grimalkenkid?

I listen to way too much Oingo Boingo and love making jokes, no matter how bad they may be. That is the only explanation I have.

[Viberum]

I'd add voices during Support Convos

[AstraSage]

My current list is short because I usually consolidate my "what ifs" after completing a playthrough first-hand, but so far:

• +1 Agreement against senselessly pants-less Female Classes.
• Songtress' Lance Rank should capped at a higher level (A-rank, if not S-rank).
• Rinkah should've gotten a higher starting Strength stat. For some reason, I would rather prefer her to get a boost to her HP, Magic and Defense growths.
• Hinata should've started as a Oni Savage and be the "Glass Cannon" counterpart to Rinka's "Tanks Everything".
• Shigure should've gotten a Third Buddy Option, probably Male Kanna.
• Kamuisexuals should have gotten more supports options, even if it's for more Buddy Seal options reasons.

Edited December 8, 2015 by AstraSage

[Sunwoo]

The problem with Pieri isn't that she's a bloodthirsty murderer who kills innocents for fun. The problem with Pieri is that almost no one around her seems to react properly to it.

Characters being crazy, remorseless killers isn't something new to FE. Even before Henry from FE13 we had Karel from FE7, who fought and killed those whom he considered worthy. But Karel and Pieri are handled far differently. Karel has less supports than Pieri, but in a way that in itself is telling because who wants to talk to someone who's axe-crazy and would kill you if they thought you were worthy? Pieri, on the other hand, is a victim of FE14's marriage mechanic so she has to support with all the Nohr men regardless of how compatible they are or not.

Karel's support options are with Guy who is too dedicated in his path of learning the sword to be dissuaded by Karel's bloodlust, Geitz who is properly creeped out by him, Dart who isn't quite right in the head, Lucius who is a holy monk who tries to talk some compassion into Karel, and Karla who is Karel's sister. Karel's bloodlust isn't treated as some quirk that he has that is amusing or to be brushed off, and in FE6 Karel himself has calmed down and he doesn't look back on his days as the Sword Demon fondly. That is much different from the majority of people either not caring enough or at all about Pieri's tendencies, not taking it seriously enough, or trying to get her to see reason and failing.

So really, Pieri being axe-crazy itself isn't the problem. I personally don't like her, but I don't need to like all the characters. What I would like to see is her supports changed a bit so that people actually care that she goes around killing innocent people instead of just treating it as some quirk or failing to stop her.

Also, I don't think "sexism" is necessarily the right word when it comes to Pieri vs. Zero and how they are viewed by the fandom. Rather, it's their looks. Would people like Pieri nearly as much if she were some homely, ugly girl? Would people like Zero nearly as much if he looked like Ganz? Probably not.

[NekoKnight]

The problem with Pieri isn't that she's a bloodthirsty murderer who kills innocents for fun. The problem with Pieri is that almost no one around her seems to react properly to it.

Characters being crazy, remorseless killers isn't something new to FE. Even before Henry from FE13 we had Karel from FE7, who fought and killed those whom he considered worthy. But Karel and Pieri are handled far differently. Karel has less supports than Pieri, but in a way that in itself is telling because who wants to talk to someone who's axe-crazy and would kill you if they thought you were worthy? Pieri, on the other hand, is a victim of FE14's marriage mechanic so she has to support with all the Nohr men regardless of how compatible they are or not.

Karel's support options are with Guy who is too dedicated in his path of learning the sword to be dissuaded by Karel's bloodlust, Geitz who is properly creeped out by him, Dart who isn't quite right in the head, Lucius who is a holy monk who tries to talk some compassion into Karel, and Karla who is Karel's sister. Karel's bloodlust isn't treated as some quirk that he has that is amusing or to be brushed off, and in FE6 Karel himself has calmed down and he doesn't look back on his days as the Sword Demon fondly. That is much different from the majority of people either not caring enough or at all about Pieri's tendencies, not taking it seriously enough, or trying to get her to see reason and failing.

So really, Pieri being axe-crazy itself isn't the problem. I personally don't like her, but I don't need to like all the characters. What I would like to see is her supports changed a bit so that people actually care that she goes around killing innocent people instead of just treating it as some quirk or failing to stop her.

You hit the nail on the head and really showed just how much S supports ruin characters.

Also, I don't think "sexism" is necessarily the right word when it comes to Pieri vs. Zero and how they are viewed by the fandom. Rather, it's their looks. Would people like Pieri nearly as much if she were some homely, ugly girl? Would people like Zero nearly as much if he looked like Ganz? Probably not.

@Mox might be okay with that.

[Alazen]

Even past enemy nations weren't as ridiculous about how accepted key subordinates like Pieri were. Either that, or both sides were shown to have crooked figures.

General Lang was a traitor who got back in since Dark Emperor Hardin pulled strings. Kempf is depicted as a slimeball who got his position thanks to his bloodline and he still gets chewed out and put Reinhardt's command. Narcian is treated as a disgrace to Bern. Riev, Valter, and Caellach are opposed by the other Grado generals. Petrine is never shown to be noticeably popular among the troops or other Riders. Jarod was just a stooge.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Alazen

[Great Geargia Gateway]

One day away, and Thane just... This thread was bloody innocent and now, it's everywhere. No matter.

I would admire a Kamui, more based on the fact of being able to do what the player wants and how the player acts. Imagine the way you would act to your sisters and brothers and the rest of your army, and how they'd respond based on who you are and what you do.
And make Kamui have no one to love or no one loving him at the beginning, an outcast, whom has to work for respect and his armies loyalty.

[Thane]

One day away, and Thane just... This thread was bloody innocent and now, it's everywhere. No matter.

I shall ruin all the fandoms I deem inadequate!

[Avarice Shadow]

Problem: Orochi's SPD growth.

Change: I would buff her SPD growth. I don't understand why they decided to make her so slow to the point where she gets doubled by almost everything -_-

Edited December 8, 2015 by Mystical_Ice

[Nyanko]

Eh, imo, it's not out of nowhere for Marx. If anything his decision to take on Pieri helps show a few of the softer layers Marx usually hides under his duty-bound, prim and proper prince persona. For all his hard facade, underneath... he's still got traces of that squishy, emotional, crybaby kid that he never entirely got around to crushing. And he's a character that wants to act on his convictions. He picked Pieri initially not so much for logical reasons (else their support suggests other candidates should have been chosen) but for emotional ones, tied in to his past retainers. And then you've got Pieri's support with Kamui to show that he kept her because he saw (or wanted to believe he saw) kindness in her.

I don't think it's so much Marx waving away her tendencies as some silly lil quirk, and more Marx needing to believe that Pieri's more than her actions. Which would correlate with his soft-hearted idealistic tendencies and his own dilemma associated with the disparity between his actions and his beliefs.

tl;dr Marx definitely picked Pieri (their support confirms that), and the decision is probably more to accentuate the softer parts of his personality (and also to redeem Pieri, somewhat, but that's neither here nor there for this).

It feels inconsistent with Marx's character to me. In his support with Nyx, it's established that he hates killing the enemy soldiers. It wears on him. Yet, I'm supposed to believe he's okay with Pieri actively wanting to kill and being thrilled while doing it? I think I remember reading a support of hers where she was bored and wanted to go find someone to kill and the other character was trying to stop her. And she serves a man who hates even killing the enemy. That just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

It makes him look bad, too. He's the future king and he chooses someone who has the mental capacity of a child and would kill just because she's bored as a person he's going to rely on? They already made him look like he has bad judgement in the story. This just enforces it. It's not even touched upon in their supports. It's the other characters who try to get her to stop killing innocent people. It also makes him look pretty weak in that he can't control his subordinate.

[blinkingbrave]

It feels inconsistent with Marx's character to me. In his support with Nyx, it's established that he hates killing the enemy soldiers. It wears on him. Yet, I'm supposed to believe he's okay with Pieri actively wanting to kill and being thrilled while doing it? I think I remember reading a support of hers where she was bored and wanted to go find someone to kill and the other character was trying to stop her. And she serves a man who hates even killing the enemy. That just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

It makes him look bad, too. He's the future king and he chooses someone who has the mental capacity of a child and would kill just because she's bored as a person he's going to rely on? They already made him look like he has bad judgement in the story. This just enforces it. It's not even touched upon in their supports. It's the other characters who try to get her to stop killing innocent people. It also makes him look pretty weak in that he can't control his subordinate.

I mean... A lot of Marx's writing is heavily dependent on nuance, so if we just interpreted something differently, that would more than explain differing opinions on inconsistancy? I guess I could explain myself a lil more thoroughly with actual proper examples if someone wants, but I don't really want to go through the effort of a more detailed analysis unless someone's interested.

At the end of the day, I think it was a choice designed to make him look bad (edit: or maybe not 'bad' per say but... softer rather?), though, and I don't think that's a bad thing. He's a flawed character, and one of his biggest downfalls is his emotions. It's a pretty consistent writing decision (along with his issues with duty and bunch of other personality stuff) supported in both the main plot(s) and his supports, not just in his relationship with Pieri, but also in his relationships with Kamui, Garon, Iago, etc. Helps add layers to make him more than just... duty.

Edited December 8, 2015 by blinkingbrave

[nyainou]

Instead of being a rampant fujoshi, I'd make Eponine a rampant homosexual. Its a more interesting route for her character. Or, she could be a closet lesbian trying to make herself like boys by being 'obsessed' with them. much much much much much more interesting.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Eh, I like Pieri's personality a lot. Kinda surprised to see so many people dislike her...

People absolutely fucking hate her. Probably not as much as Camilla, but goddamn close.

What do you like about her?

I can tell you what i like about her. Its the fact shes actually extremely psychologically damaged. Yet, shes on the protagonist's team. Im a huge sucker for characters like that. In one of her supports, you find out she actually DOES give a shit about people. Its this emotional scarring that made her so barking in the head, she feels that servants have no worth. I do think Boron is right that people in-universe should react to this more, and it would be more interesting if there was further exploration on that. But i like the character because i find her interesting.

I absolutely love Pieri!!! Especially her hair lol.

Shes the best.

I'd make Zero a little less skeevy. Less of a piece of shit. Ya'know? We already have Tharja 2.0. We don't need another creep. ..And this is coming from someone who loves Zero more than any other Fates' character.

Also, I'd make Pieri a lot less cringe worthy. Henry was cute, Pieri is just. eugh.

Pieri's main quirk with the whole perpetually 9 years old thing, may be changed entirely. I have this really strong feeling shes going to get hit with the localization hammer pretty hard. Pieri may end up being more or less Henry meets Noire (the latter because Pieri has mood swings) or something like that.

Unfortunately for him, her supports don't seem to show that he's right in this. Depending on how long she'd work with him, I would have had her dropped. And in jail. You don't just let psychos run around killing maids and butlers and talking about how fun it was if they continue to do it.

Thats not entirely true. Pieri's supports with Odin actually go into detail (a bit) about Pieri's better side. The qualities she showcases in that support chain is likely what Marx saw in her.

I dont want Zero to stop being a naughty little sausage. But i do think they need to play up his heroic side more in localization. (which they might)

Instead of being a rampant fujoshi, I'd make Eponine a rampant homosexual. Its a more interesting route for her character. Or, she could be a closet lesbian trying to make herself like boys by being 'obsessed' with them. much much much much much more interesting.

:/ the implications that would have are just as unfortunate, if not more so, than the already existing Eponine.

[NekoKnight]

Instead of being a rampant fujoshi, I'd make Eponine a rampant homosexual. Its a more interesting route for her character. Or, she could be a closet lesbian trying to make herself like boys by being 'obsessed' with them. much much much much much more interesting.

Because that's just what this game needs more of, more negative gay stereotypes.

The latter idea might work better but I don't really think Fire Emblem is the best game to discuss issues of sexual identity.

I can tell you what i like about her. Its the fact shes actually extremely psychologically damaged. Yet, shes on the protagonist's team. Im a huge sucker for characters like that. In one of her supports, you find out she actually DOES give a shit about people. Its this emotional scarring that made her so barking in the head, she feels that servants have no worth. I do think Boron is right that people in-universe should react to this more, and it would be more interesting if there was further exploration on that. But i like the character because i find her interesting.

I don't dislike everything about her. Her supports (with Lazwald iirc) mention her befriending and teaching thugs and lowlifes to be better people which I found interesting. The problem is, you can't be an active serial killer and be on the "good guy" side. Psychologically broken or not, that's a bad thing and must be taken seriously less the other character's moral integrity comes into question. Someone mentioned elsewhere that we've had psycho characters, like Karel, in the past but they were treated with more fear and wariness as one should expect.

Edited December 10, 2015 by NekoKnight

[nyainou]

Because that's just what this game needs more of, more negative gay stereotypes.

The latter idea might work better but I don't really think Fire Emblem is the best game to discuss issues of sexual identity.

:/ the implications that would have are just as unfortunate, if not more so, than the already existing Eponine.

Yeah, I understand that. I don't think things through a lot. I apologize if what I said was harmful. Mostly acting impulsively regarding my need for more LGBT+ characters.

[Ebony]

Thats not entirely true. Pieri's supports with Odin actually go into detail (a bit) about Pieri's better side. The qualities she showcases in that support chain is likely what Marx saw in her.

I dont want Zero to stop being a naughty little sausage. But i do think they need to play up his heroic side more in localization. (which they might)

Is it translated? I think that's one I skipped over - I'll admit, if shamefully, I've skipped most of Pieri's supports after reading a few of them and growing tired of her antics. I still think they should have people calling her on how she acts - at least Henry had people asking him how he felt and telling him he's... kinda devoid of morals.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Because that's just what this game needs more of, more negative gay stereotypes.

The latter idea might work better but I don't really think Fire Emblem is the best game to discuss issues of sexual identity.

I don't dislike everything about her. Her supports (with Lazwald iirc) mention her befriending and teaching thugs and lowlifes to be better people which I found interesting. The problem is, you can't be an active serial killer and be on the "good guy" side. Psychologically broken or not, that's a bad thing and must be taken seriously less the other character's moral integrity comes into question. Someone mentioned elsewhere that we've had psycho characters, like Karel, in the past but they were treated with more fear and wariness as one should expect.

Did you miss the part where i agreed that in-universe, people needed to react more to Pieri's darker side? There definitely SHOULD be discussion in supports or otherwise about Pieri's morals. But even still, my opinion is that she is interesting. Im honestly not sure why people cannot accept other opinions when it comes to this freaking game.

Is it translated? I think that's one I skipped over - I'll admit, if shamefully, I've skipped most of Pieri's supports after reading a few of them and growing tired of her antics. I still think they should have people calling her on how she acts - at least Henry had people asking him how he felt and telling him he's... kinda devoid of morals.

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