dawn brigade more like suck brigade

[SSbardock84]

I do hate that you don't get to use them very much but if you actually try to get them all stronger than the team can be really strong, not just a couple of them. Its pretty easy to get them all to classes 2 at the end of part 1 and if you save exp and/or master crowns you can easily get them all to class 3 at the beginning of part 4. I've gotten several up to class 3 before that, pretty much all of them besides Laura, Meg, and Fiona but thats because I don't care about them.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i don't got the time to read threw a baddie not being able to fully use all the resources he has to make use of characters.

more or less, you git gud, if i can bring in atleast 4 of the DB on normal (and i can't even beat lunatic of some of the other games) then you can too if you really wanted too.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Actually I'm considering to break Sothe's default support with Micaiah and give him a support with earth to benefit more from his beast killer.

He can get up to 30 avoid. He has lower speed growth so I think with resolve he should have about the same avoid rate like Edward.

In general it's very hard for me to bring him to level 20 at the end of 4-P.

I haven't given him paragon yet, but it's not all that great because his growths are pretty mediocre and his best growths have pretty much the lowest caps. (good unit for bexp. though).

Sothe with resolve, A-support in earth and beast killer should really kick ass in 3-6 and maybe 3-13. Futhermore cancelling Micky's support would make him more flexible in 3-13, because he has pretty much no support in this chapter unlike you ignore him.

Micaiah x Laura as support would make more sense, because Micaiah doesn't need avoid at all and Laura can't fight at all.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Junkhead]

lvl. 5 Sothe (assuming you use him enough, had it done in HM) packs 91 Avo assuming an A support with an Earth...ling. This is before Resolve, though. Resolve adds another 22 Avo, putting him at 113 Avo, meaning enemies have 22-27 Hit on him (that's, like, literally, +1 Avo over Edward, lawlz with all the settings I provided)! o: I've had this badass Resolve + Cancel/Vantage setting in mind. Need to try it out.

Getting Sothe to a high enough level is a matter of actually using him and not having him simply weaken stuff for the others. He can actually nab some levels in 3-6, and it's possible he may also have a chance of doing so at 3-12, assuming he got enough kills in the previous chapters to be good enough to take on enemies. It's quite possible to have something like a lvl. 8 Sothe at the start of 3-12 and feed him a level of BEXP (or two, if you want to ensure doubling most enemies). 24 AS doubles a ton of enemies, but 25 AS pretty much gets them good (barring SMs and like two Peggies). Iron Knife forges aren't strong enough to 3HKO a lot of the time, but here's where ledges come at an advantage and this is also where you get your first Silver Dagger, which allows him to 3HKO and kill with Adept.

Yeah, I should probably break his support with Micaiah as early as I can. Don't see it coming into great use much other than in Part 1. I think it makes a difference as to whether or not Sothe can 2HKO the toughest Tigers untransformed, but that's about it.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Soul o:

[Augestein]

Edward + Nolan + Resolve on Edward is actually pretty good. Makes Edward and Nolan essentially immune to Biorhythms in the sense that at worst they are facing -1 hit and from there you can pretty much assume neutral avoid and ignore it from there.

Honestly I don't think most of the DB is terrible, it's that they have a ridiculously short amount of time to reach the levels they need. Meg is probably the only one that I'd say is out and out bad. Leonardo is not an endgame unit, but he IS useful in the chapters you have him most of the time. And really, Leonardo is just all sorts of mucked up. Low speed + ranged unit with Cancel? It's like they wanted him to use Crossbows all of the time. Crossbows don't use strength, and he has super luck to help him with avoiding critical attacks. Maybe that's what IS was going for with him... This was the game they introduced crossbows, so maybe in their mind they wanted a unit that would "specialize" in crossbows and wouldn't need good strength to be a contributing member.

[eclipse]

While that's an interesting observation regarding Leo, he died in the desert because he got doubled in the face. So unless IS wanted Leo to be the ultimate RNG canceller or something, I don't think that makes him a good unit. Just slightly better than the "waste of time" tier I put him in.

Of the Dawn Brigade, you forgot Fiona. She shows up at the worst possible time, and any advantage she'd have as a mount is negated because of the way the maps are designed. Her greatest selling point IMO is her affinity. . .

[ruadath]

They really did screw over Leo. In addition to the points above (low speed + ranged Cancel), they were also like lets give him really good base Skl and good Skl growths but not Critical +5! That way his only strong point will still be overshadowed by other units and not help him out at all!

[Shadow Mir]

Actually I'm considering to break Sothe's default support with Micaiah and give him a support with earth to benefit more from his beast killer.

He can get up to 30 avoid. He has lower speed growth so I think with resolve he should have about the same avoid rate like Edward.

In general it's very hard for me to bring him to level 20 at the end of 4-P.

I haven't given him paragon yet, but it's not all that great because his growths are pretty mediocre and his best growths have pretty much the lowest caps. (good unit for bexp. though).

Sothe with resolve, A-support in earth and beast killer should really kick ass in 3-6 and maybe 3-13. Futhermore cancelling Micky's support would make him more flexible in 3-13, because he has pretty much no support in this chapter unlike you ignore him.

Micaiah x Laura as support would make more sense, because Micaiah doesn't need avoid at all and Laura can't fight at all.

iono - losing 2 atk just for 7 extra avoid over the Micaiah support, IMHO, is a flat-out losing trade.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

iono - losing 2 atk just for 7 extra avoid over the Micaiah support, IMHO, is a flat-out losing trade.

About which 7 extra avoid are you talking?

Sothe would get +15, if an earth unit replaces Micaiah as his support.

Ok, Laura doesn't need a support actually. Only support her when you have an unit left you want to use but doesn't have a support yet.

While that's an interesting observation regarding Leo, he died in the desert because he got doubled in the face. So unless IS wanted Leo to be the ultimate RNG canceller or something, I don't think that makes him a good unit. Just slightly better than the "waste of time" tier I put him in.

Why did you even use him in this chapter?

Only use fliers and magic users.

He'd work better for Elincia's party, mainly in 4-5.

Leo is mainly useful in 3-6 and 3-13, because he should be able to double the tigers.

The only real useful skill for him would be adept. His speed is poor, but Lughnasadh rises the activation rate by 5% at least.

One person mentioned about wrath + crossbow as combination.

A too early promoted Leonardo can get oneshotted by the tigers and ORKOed by two cat attacks.

He's no front unit unlike Shinon with his meh HP and poor defense base and growth.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Kylo Drumman]

Two words.

Gecko OS Codes

You don't have to hack them to the third tier instantly...just max the Base EXP, use it all before the Endgame, so you can have some fun before the Endgame.

Make sense?

[Shadow Mir]

About which 7 extra avoid are you talking?

Sothe would get +15, if an earth unit replaces Micaiah as his support.

Ok, Laura doesn't need a support actually. Only support her when you have an unit left you want to use but doesn't have a support yet.

Why did you even use him in this chapter?

Only use fliers and magic users.

He'd work better for Elincia's party, mainly in 4-5.

Leo is mainly useful in 3-6 and 3-13, because he should be able to double the tigers.

The only real useful skill for him would be adept. His speed is poor, but Lughnasadh rises the activation rate by 5% at least.

One person mentioned about wrath + crossbow as combination.

A too early promoted Leonardo can get oneshotted by the tigers and ORKOed by two cat attacks.

He's no front unit unlike Shinon with his meh HP and poor defense base and growth.

Dammit, I miscalculated due to not remembering (I generally don't bother much with supports, after all). Still, I'm not sure I'd rather have worse bonuses during an already hard part of the game just for slightly better bonuses later on...

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Imo evasion is the most important stat for the DB on HM, especially for an unit who's forced to survive.

Sothe usually can't ORKO anything except for the tigers with the beast killer and cats (if he has enough speed to double them). 2-4 damage less doesn't really matter.

[Shadow Mir]

Imo evasion is the most important stat for the DB on HM, especially for an unit who's forced to survive.

Sothe usually can't ORKO anything except for the tigers with the beast killer and cats (if he has enough speed to double them). 2-4 damage less doesn't really matter.

But with only two viable Earth candidates, unless you're really going out of your way, for Sothe to have an A Earth ready by 3-6 is quite the stretch. And that's ignoring that I'd rather have Micaiah's A than a C Earth during part 1.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Sothe can start to support in 1-4 (the first time you've a base) with Nolan for sure.

He could reach A even in part 1.

Micaiah only really needs the attack boost in 1-2 and 1-3 to oneshot the boss.

In 1-6-2 she should be able to do it without the boost.

Of course both are nerfed, but Sothe doesn't really need a support in the early - midgame of part 1.

Micaiah loses 1 attack and a few accuracy points by starting a C-support, that's it. The reduced evasion doesn't bother her at all.

[Shadow Mir]

Sothe can start to support in 1-4 (the first time you've a base) with Nolan for sure.

He could reach A even in part 1.

Micaiah only really needs the attack boost in 1-2 and 1-3 to oneshot the boss.

In 1-6-2 she should be able to do it without the boost.

Of course both are nerfed, but Sothe doesn't really need a support in the early - midgame of part 1.

Micaiah loses 1 attack and a few accuracy points by starting a C-support, that's it. The reduced evasion doesn't bother her at all.

Sadly, the reality of the situation is that Sothe starts in a whole different area from everyone else in his join chapter, and second, he has thief stuff to do in said chapter. 1-3 is also the type of chapter where I'd have much greater concerns than going out of my way to try to set up a support...

[Junkhead]

But with only two viable Earth candidates, unless you're really going out of your way, for Sothe to have an A Earth ready by 3-6 is quite the stretch. And that's ignoring that I'd rather have Micaiah's A than a C Earth during part 1.

If I can manage this in a tight LTC run, I think no one else will have trobule with that, lol.

[Shadow Mir]

If I can manage this in a tight LTC run, I think no one else will have trobule with that, lol.

Still, my concerns lie with the fact that I have better things to do during those chapters than try to tether Sothe to Nolan just to try to build a support, among others.

[Junkhead]

Brah has a point, me guess. I'll just have to try that sometime (I prefer Nolan with others, anyway). But this goes with a fast-paced scenario, with me. I'm sure another that gives themselves a lot more freedom of time have no problems with this.

[Brinzy]

Leo, much like Micaiah, isn't useful in the traditional sense (being able to 1RKO everything), but he actually becomes useful by insta-promoting to lvl.10 + Beastfoe & Crossbows (and also comes with a great Prf weapon).

Oh wow, I never thought of doing this. That's actually an amazing use for Leo. If there were still tier list discussions, I could actually see this being a significant point for him. (Although, it's likely that people have already argued this in the past.)

Honestly, I think they made his stat distribution the way it is - along with his lack of +5% crit - because of his amazing personal weapon. They probably thought it would balance out, but clearly that's not the case. If you rearranged his growths moderately, it'd be enough to at least make him not deadweight I feel. I never really used to care about him back in the day when I played this game day in and day out, but for my latest run, I've shown him some love and so far it hasn't backfired. I'm using the Dawn Brigade for the final chapter, hence the attention I've given him.

Speaking of attention, I finished part 1 a few days ago after farming experience on Jarod and a priest for Meg and Fiona. I got to thinking... what if Meg and Fiona swapped classes? I suppose it wouldn't matter in Fiona's case, because she's on a level of bad that you don't often see in FE. Meg, however, could be decent. Gaining access to Javelins for safe poking and getting vastly increased movement would have definitely made her at least as good as Leonardo. (So, not good at all? Huhuhu.)

Anyway! To the OP, I have to agree that it doesn't really take too much effort to get a few of them to third tier. I think one of the most consistently big mistakes people make in FE games is not promoting early. This game can encourage not promoting early thanks to BEXP, but I'd argue that it doesn't matter for a lot of them.

For example, Laura is a very powerful 2nd and 3rd tier unit who has the "flaw" of having low caps, but those caps are enough to do anything in the game decently except double attack extremely fast units endgame. You could level her fully and BEXP once she caps Magic, Skill and Speed to make her very hard to kill thanks to increased defenses, or you could simply promote her early twice since she will pretty much always have high important stats. She's actually the best demonstration in the DB of how early promotions are a good thing, in my opinion, if you so choose to go that route.

Aran and Nolan are powerful candidates of tier 2 early promotions from my experience. Aran can be treated like Laura for the most part in terms of BEXP and promoting. Nolan I think is slightly less straightforward, since I almost never BEXP him personally, but clearly he's good no matter what. I assume Zihark and Edward also work, but I haven't tried. Jill probably also works but I've literally never used Jill in RD... ever. I don't like her.

[Young Link 4]

Most of the DB are good candidates for BEXP with their unbalanced growth rates. They don't even have that much competition, since you have to use a couple of them. Too bad you don't get that much on HM, so promoting them early is a good idea. I agree they'd need an extra chapter in part 3 to catch up properly though.

I don't really get the hate for Micaiah either. It's a shame she won't double without lots of luck and time, but she's the most reliable when it comes to ranged damage, oftentimes weakening enemies for others especially in HM. I currently don't even have that many characters who can double, swordmasters are pretty much the only ones who do. So she doesn't even stand out negatively.

Loved Aran since the first time I used him. Either give him some BEXP or promote him early or not. He tanks anything physical reliably while poking them with good damage no matter what you do with him. Give him a few levels on top of his promote and he can even tank two hits of the tigers in 3-6.

I even had two runs with a decent Leonardo, but that was only on normal. His unique bow is pretty neat for doubling Ashera, so if I could, I'd give him the chance over Rolf and Shinon in part 4. He just can't gain any decent amount of exp as a bow user in the already exp starving DB, so it's pretty hard to actually give him what he needs. A shame he didn't get any strength this run, making him basically Meg useless.

Then again, I'm mostly playing while assuming no one will 1RKO anything or tank more than one hit, which puts Edward on the same level as Nolan very early for example.

[Dunal]

Most of the DB are good candidates for BEXP with their unbalanced growth rates.

Eh, not quite. Tier 1 caps pretty high in contrast to the stats you'll be getting. And they're not class based at all (unless it's DEF/RES), meaning that reaching them before promotion is usually very unlikely.

Unless you're Laura? =S

With units like Meg, she would be a lot better off if she had say -- a 14/15 speed cap. Or 6-8 res cap etc... Units like her who want to make as much use as BEXP as possible to fill out their other stats, can't actually do so until late tier 2.

Micaiah isn't liked much because she's a main protagonist/forced unit who basically becomes a healbot. Luckily for her, being a healbot isn't the worst thing in the world and is always nice to have. But considering the game treats her as an offensive mage who happens to have to sacrifice her HP in order to heal? It was almost like band-aid attempt to make sure she can continue to be useful without bothering to make her scale better as a combat unit. Unless Thani bombing is concerned when it doesn't even come into play for 2 out of the 3 maps in part 3 she is in. But offensively she just shares the same issues with other magi and is actually difficult to train unless you baby her. Main chaaracters/units shouldn't need to be babied -- they should be naturally good under standard play considering their involvement.

Units like Aran, Leo and Ilyana are good examples of units who would be so much better if there wasn't so many other over-tuned units with emphasis on more important stats. Or if not overtuned, just has more means to gain EXP and actually grow (Nolan/Jill). Aran on paper looks fine, but he'll always struggle to keep up if you're using him no more than others (favouritism just for the sake of using them). Same with Meg but to a further extent. Ilyana would be notably better if she didn't leave the DB. She isn't bad in part 1 at all and at least EXP investment wouldn't go to waste for the DB.

And no Leo isn't actually that bad outside of the Jap. version. He's somewhat redeemable with not that many resources at least (beastfoe/personal weapon/brave bow). Two amazing ones that only he gets access to.

Fiona's base stats are just flat out awful of course. No redemption. She needs to be 20/17 to start being decent/good. Not even standing out past that aside for some neat innate skills.

Edited January 9, 2016 by DLuna

[Peter The Cool]

The Dawn Brigade? Nolan IS THE DAWN BRIGADE!!