Is it true that this game isn't selling so hot?

[MitoRequiem]

Hold up here, you're implying that this isn't a true mashup or crossover =/. Great, you're supporting the game. But don't make the claim that this game is not a mashup unless it is to your tastes. To imply that a lot of potential was somehow lost by going with this theme is also based on your opinion. Really, we don't know what the game's potential would've been nor do we know that having this theme makes it somehow "lose" that potential unless you're basing your idea of potential off of your own personal preference for crossover games.

And typically interdimensional portals opening up and characters meeting only works in fighting games and extremely lesser known games (that aren't really great) such as project X zone. Where other games which feature characters from different series try to do their own thing, good example being Kingdom hearts

My mistake for not saying it is a true mashup, cause it is(and of course you have to look for the one mistake and use that to get on me :P)

Anyways. I think the idea was in the right direction a game that's unique and has elements from both series. The theme just kinda upsets me so much I was completely okay with it at first cause I was at the time just glad the project still existed. If it woulda went with a more KH take where you're visiting areas(Not the same exact areas) from SMT and FE games that would have been neat.

Like someone said earlier just seems like a small group got together and was like "Yoo this would be awesome!!!~" without really thinking about the majority :< Why do companies usually make crossovers/mash-ups? To please fans of both fan base as well as bring in some new ones. Did they really think that this theme would have pleased the majority? That's my question. I just have no clue what they were thinking and I'm really looking forward to future interviews on this game.

Edited January 4, 2016 by MitoRequiem

[Senario]

My mistake for not saying it is a true mashup, cause it is(and of course you have to look for the one mistake and use that to get on me :P)

Anyways. I think the idea was in the right direction a game that's unique and has elements from both series. The theme just kinda upsets me so much I was completely okay with it at first cause I was at the time just glad the project still existed. If it woulda went with a more KH take where you're visiting areas(Not the same exact areas) from SMT and FE games that would have been neat.

Like someone said earlier just seems like a small group got together and was like "Yoo this would be awesome!!!~" without really thinking about the majority :< Why do companies usually make crossovers/mash-ups? To please fans of both fan base as well as bring in some new ones. Did they really think that this theme would have pleased the majority? That's my question. I just have no clue what they were thinking and I'm really looking forward to future interviews on this game.

For other people probably not, but I base that information on how people tend to hate things centering around an Anime or Japanese type game unless it is Persona and of course ignoring that both FE and SMT are based in that anime style. You can see that hate in some groups of players who hate new Fire Emblem games. I personally love them because they saved the series. I'd rather have Fire Emblem than not, I still remember Advance wars and that series getting canned. Also, there is no hard metric showing causation on how much of a majority wants/doesn't want this game, just a very vocal hive mind of hate.

I do think however that it is better off than if it were some portal opening up and characters from both series meeting up. That is extremely stereotypical and honestly I would jump to the opposite side of the fence and decide not to support it at all. It would be essentially "Project X zone, now featuring Fire Emblem!" and I don't think that makes a good or interesting game, pure bait for superfans to go buy it because it has the names SMT and FE on it.

I do think however that people in creative positions should make what they want occasionally and not always what sells, otherwise we wouldn't have many good games. Anything from Platinum Games being one developer for starters. That includes Okami, Bayonetta, Wonderful 101, Viewtiful Joe, and of course Devil May Cry 1. Nintendo and Atlus are not Activision and EA where sales dominate every decision. Both Nintendo and Atlus go for what they feel is right for the game no matter how odd. That is how we got Splatoon and Catherine (Lets be real, Catherine makes you pause if you've never seen it before and just see trailers). If all games were made to sell you would quickly get bored of the games because they would all be too similar.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Senario

[Soapbar]

I'm really not surprised, especially after taking a change in direction that pissed off the vast majority of both target audiences, something you don't want to do considering both of your target audiences are small niches. It's not going to sell, and it leaves a vast majority of fans displeased and non-fans indifferent towards a title that they see as basically weeaboo trash.

I'm pretty neutral to the game but you have to admit this game was one bad business decision after another.

For other people probably not, but I base that information on how people tend to hate things centering around an Anime or Japanese type game unless it is Persona and of course ignoring that both FE and SMT are based in that anime style. You can see that hate in some groups of players who hate new Fire Emblem games. I personally love them because they saved the series. I'd rather have Fire Emblem than not, I still remember Advance wars and that series getting canned. Also, there is no hard metric showing causation on how much of a majority wants/doesn't want this game, just a very vocal hive mind of hate.

I do think however that it is better off than if it were some portal opening up and characters from both series meeting up. That is extremely stereotypical and honestly I would jump to the opposite side of the fence and decide not to support it at all. It would be essentially "Project X zone, now featuring Fire Emblem!" and I don't think that makes a good or interesting game, pure bait for superfans to go buy it because it has the names SMT and FE on it.

I do think however that people in creative positions should make what they want occasionally and not always what sells, otherwise we wouldn't have many good games. Anything from Platinum Games being one developer for starters. That includes Okami, Bayonetta, Wonderful 101, Viewtiful Joe, and of course Devil May Cry 1. Nintendo and Atlus are not Activision and EA where sales dominate every decision. Both Nintendo and Atlus go for what they feel is right for the game no matter how odd. That is how we got Splatoon and Catherine (Lets be real, Catherine makes you pause if you've never seen it before and just see trailers). If all games were made to sell you would quickly get bored of the games because they would all be too similar.

There's a large difference between a game a developer wants to make and a massive waste of time and money, this is the latter, especially since most of the games you mentioned were commercially successful because they hit their target audience and had small budgets.

[MitoRequiem]

I honestly don't get how newer Fire Emblem games are anymore "Japanese" or "anime" than older ones. There was just optional shit that was added that isn't plot relevant or gameplay relevant(seriously I went through Fates on Lunatic not using the shit that people are getting upset about).

Also just because something saved the series doesn't save it from criticism(you got me you triggered me) :)

I'm not asking them to straight up sell out and goes for what sells cause honestly. I have no clue what sells and I don't think anyone else does either. I personally wasn't asking for a crossover either which I thought I made pretty clear in my post up above.

If the game was gonna be something on it's own? Cool neat fantastic excellent, for a mashup why not go with something both fan bases can relate to? and I'm gonna go ahead and use the word "majority" again because honestly you don't need a "hard metric showing" to know that a lot of people aren't okay with how the game turned out. That doesn't mean people don't want it. I'm sure there are people out there like me that see the gameplay and are like "I think I could totally ignore all the bullshit in this game and enjoy it for what it is". I'm just defending the people who can't do that cause I can totally see where they are coming from.

Also "Nintendo and Atlus go for what they feel is right for the game no matter how odd" I mean clearly does anyone remember Metroid Federation Force?

[Roflolxp54]

Another possible reason that the game didn't do well was because it's on the Wii U. Several recent SMT titles and the last 4 FE titles (FE11-FE14) are for handhelds. Chances are that the game could have probably done much better if it was marketed to a larger userbase.

And, from what I've seen on the 3DS, Atlus titles tend to be pretty pricey when compared to other titles. Wii U titles generally have asking prices of ~60 USD. People probably didn't consider the SMTxFE game worth the price.

[Senario]

I honestly don't get how newer Fire Emblem games are anymore "Japanese" or "anime" than older ones. There was just optional shit that was added that isn't plot relevant or gameplay relevant(seriously I went through Fates on Lunatic not using the shit that people are getting upset about).

Also just because something saved the series doesn't save it from criticism(you got me you triggered me) :)

I'm not asking them to straight up sell out and goes for what sells cause honestly. I have no clue what sells and I don't think anyone else does either. I personally wasn't asking for a crossover either which I thought I made pretty clear in my post up above.

If the game was gonna be something on it's own? Cool neat fantastic excellent, for a mashup why not go with something both fan bases can relate to? and I'm gonna go ahead and use the word "majority" again because honestly you don't need a "hard metric showing" to know that a lot of people aren't okay with how the game turned out. That doesn't mean people don't want it. I'm sure there are people out there like me that see the gameplay and are like "I think I could totally ignore all the bullshit in this game and enjoy it for what it is". I'm just defending the people who can't do that cause I can totally see where they are coming from.

Also "Nintendo and Atlus go for what they feel is right for the game no matter how odd" I mean clearly does anyone remember Metroid Federation Force?

But we don't know that the majority don't want it. We know that some people are really opposed and some don't really care, of course some people like the game and want to try it out. As with all mashups they will never get 100% of both franchise fans buying the game. Hyrule Warriors should have been plenty clear with that. You're argument of Majority falls flat on its face when you claim you don't know what sells but then claim you know the majority don't want the game. What is it? What sells and what the majority want are supposed to be the same correct?

And no, nobody remembers federation force but they are free to make it, I don't particularly hate the game nor do I try to convince others it is already doomed for failure. To be fair metroid isn't on the top of my list for games I want to buy, and if we were to use the majority argument...apparently metroid simply isn't that popular and doesn't sell all that well. Just like Atlus made Catherine which was an excellent puzzle game, I expect this game to be pretty solid. I believe this game will have its audience and I'm glad that there are people out there who will let people enjoy what they want and provide info about the game on this forum. I'm very pleased with how the soundtrack panned out especially for the battle/boss battle themes as it shows that it is not just idol music but covers other themes. However; to expect it to do as well as either of the series individually is silly. Almost no crossover game does that and there are rare exceptions, half of which would be fighting games where the crossover concept feels almost right at home without any unique ideas for a plot. The ones that would've sold more than the individual series at the time or currently would be...Super Smash Bros and maybe the early Marvel vs Capcom games. One example being project X zone which did not sell better than most of the series included in that crossover.

On the "Not saving it from criticism"...that is of course true but speaking on just Awakening I find it hard to find legitimate criticism for the game because honestly it was a well done Fire Emblem game. It took aspects from many different Fire emblem games over time and combined them fairly well. Training on the world map for FE8, skills from FE9-10, S rank supports and children from older FE games not released in the west, Lore that largely fits in with the original Fire Emblem lore (shadow dragon/FE1), and the My Unit feature from FE 12. It is pretty hard to find legitimate criticisms for the game considering they took a lot of good parts from other fire emblem games and made them work in a new one. My favorite feature being the My Unit feature as I could make any sort of class I wanted, a shame I'm locked into lord in Fates since I favor magic but it is a minor point I don't consider worth being a negative. No, turning into a dragon doesn't count, I want to hurl lightning at people.

I'm really not surprised, especially after taking a change in direction that pissed off the vast majority of both target audiences, something you don't want to do considering both of your target audiences are small niches. It's not going to sell, and it leaves a vast majority of fans displeased and non-fans indifferent towards a title that they see as basically weeaboo trash.

I'm pretty neutral to the game but you have to admit this game was one bad business decision after another.

There's a large difference between a game a developer wants to make and a massive waste of time and money, this is the latter, especially since most of the games you mentioned were commercially successful because they hit their target audience and had small budgets.

Doesn't sound like you're neutral, you consider this a massive waste of time and money. Again with the "Majority" argument, I don't think it is quite fair that the Majority should determine what games we get in every single case. I'd get extremely bored with gaming because it would all be grimdark stories with no real differences. For most new series nobody actually knows that they want it until it is deemed the game is good based on its gameplay merits.

Technically Bayonetta 2 might have been a huge waste of time and money as it bombed, but I am extremely thankful it even got a sequel as it is one of the best games of recent memory. I would not say it was one bad business decision after another, really we don't know. Likely neither of us know anything about the video game making business so whether or not this was a bad idea really depends on the actual numbers of their budget.

Considering the game sold 23k in the first two days and apparently sold well on the virtual console (some claim it is the same, so 23k) and if we say the game is 60 dollars a piece (actually 67k yen per, should be slightly above $60) that is about 2.76m dollars before accounting that it was only the first two days and it still hasn't been sold in any other regions other than Japan. It is worth noting that there has been little to no marketing of the game which is where big money costs come in for all forms of media, whether they are movies or games. So it could very well be profitable by the time it is released in all other regions. It is not a blockbuster by any means, but profitable. I'm also ignoring the Fortissimo version of the game which is a special edition which costs more money and likely earns more profit. This is for simplicity rather than accuracy but that version was sold out in Japan.

It is far too soon to call this game a failure or a success in terms of financials.

[MitoRequiem]

I just feel like this argument is pointless at this point lol. It's like you don't want to believe the reasons as to why the game isn't doing well and why it isn't going to do well in America.
I also have no clue why Catherine and Bayonetta are being brought up those games aren't mashups or crossovers correct me If I'm wrong.
I'll just simplify what I'm trying to say though

As much as you don't want to believe it yes this game did upset the majority of each fan base, like seriously look at the first trailer for this game and then the newest one people are pissed with the theme it just looks like weeb bait. Were people asking for like some crazy crossover with Marth fighting demifiend or some shit? Probably I think I read a lot about that. Is that what the developers had to do to get people to like the game? Or positive responses in general? Negative. All they had to do is make something that really felt like FE or felt like SMT and that woulda pleased at least one side maybe both who knows(I know the SMT side woulda been fine with either tbh)
Also another thing about this game it was originally gonna be rated M so that made me think it was gonna be pretty dark and deep but that got thrown out of the window RIP.

tl;dr A lot of people are upset with the idol theme, it was a pretty dumb move in all honesty but it is what it is maybe in the future they can clean it up.


I kinda just read bits and pieces of your post.

It's pretty easy to find criticism in Awakening, Map design was garbage which is kind of a big deal in Awakening most of the maps were just giant fields with tons of enemies thrown at you, nothing really unique in terms of enemy placement or terrain but this was fixed in Fates so whatever. I do think Awakening was a step in the right direction but that game isn't perfect by any means and it is pretty easy to find what was wrong with the game or what upset people.

Also you aren't locked into Nohr Prince(ss) in Fates you can pick a secondary class they just made it so you don't have access to all of them on one character cause that was kinda stupid tbh.

Edited January 5, 2016 by MitoRequiem

[twice]

*shivering*

Well guys, I... C-Can't wait for this game to release over here! (?)

[Soapbar]

But we don't know that the majority don't want it. We know that some people are really opposed and some don't really care, of course some people like the game and want to try it out. As with all mashups they will never get 100% of both franchise fans buying the game. Hyrule Warriors should have been plenty clear with that. You're argument of Majority falls flat on its face when you claim you don't know what sells but then claim you know the majority don't want the game. What is it? What sells and what the majority want are supposed to be the same correct?

And no, nobody remembers federation force but they are free to make it, I don't particularly hate the game nor do I try to convince others it is already doomed for failure. To be fair metroid isn't on the top of my list for games I want to buy, and if we were to use the majority argument...apparently metroid simply isn't that popular and doesn't sell all that well. Just like Atlus made Catherine which was an excellent puzzle game, I expect this game to be pretty solid. I believe this game will have its audience and I'm glad that there are people out there who will let people enjoy what they want and provide info about the game on this forum. I'm very pleased with how the soundtrack panned out especially for the battle/boss battle themes as it shows that it is not just idol music but covers other themes. However; to expect it to do as well as either of the series individually is silly. Almost no crossover game does that and there are rare exceptions, half of which would be fighting games where the crossover concept feels almost right at home without any unique ideas for a plot. The ones that would've sold more than the individual series at the time or currently would be...Super Smash Bros and maybe the early Marvel vs Capcom games. One example being project X zone which did not sell better than most of the series included in that crossover.

On the "Not saving it from criticism"...that is of course true but speaking on just Awakening I find it hard to find legitimate criticism for the game because honestly it was a well done Fire Emblem game. It took aspects from many different Fire emblem games over time and combined them fairly well. Training on the world map for FE8, skills from FE9-10, S rank supports and children from older FE games not released in the west, Lore that largely fits in with the original Fire Emblem lore (shadow dragon/FE1), and the My Unit feature from FE 12. It is pretty hard to find legitimate criticisms for the game considering they took a lot of good parts from other fire emblem games and made them work in a new one. My favorite feature being the My Unit feature as I could make any sort of class I wanted, a shame I'm locked into lord in Fates since I favor magic but it is a minor point I don't consider worth being a negative. No, turning into a dragon doesn't count, I want to hurl lightning at people.

Doesn't sound like you're neutral, you consider this a massive waste of time and money. Again with the "Majority" argument, I don't think it is quite fair that the Majority should determine what games we get in every single case. I'd get extremely bored with gaming because it would all be grimdark stories with no real differences. For most new series nobody actually knows that they want it until it is deemed the game is good based on its gameplay merits.

Technically Bayonetta 2 might have been a huge waste of time and money as it bombed, but I am extremely thankful it even got a sequel as it is one of the best games of recent memory. I would not say it was one bad business decision after another, really we don't know. Likely neither of us know anything about the video game making business so whether or not this was a bad idea really depends on the actual numbers of their budget.

Considering the game sold 23k in the first two days and apparently sold well on the virtual console (some claim it is the same, so 23k) and if we say the game is 60 dollars a piece (actually 67k yen per, should be slightly above $60) that is about 2.76m dollars before accounting that it was only the first two days and it still hasn't been sold in any other regions other than Japan. It is worth noting that there has been little to no marketing of the game which is where big money costs come in for all forms of media, whether they are movies or games. So it could very well be profitable by the time it is released in all other regions. It is not a blockbuster by any means, but profitable. I'm also ignoring the Fortissimo version of the game which is a special edition which costs more money and likely earns more profit. This is for simplicity rather than accuracy but that version was sold out in Japan.

It is far too soon to call this game a failure or a success in terms of financials.

When I said it was a massive waste of time money I was talking from a publishing standpoint, I'm neutral (read: have zero fucks to give since I'm not buying it) on the direction the game has taken. A publisher will want to publish games such as Dark Souls or Dishonered because often times the developers behind those titles are fans of the particular niche and want to bring it into the modern day, and that's fine, it makes money and pleases audiences that haven't been satisfied for a while. This is a waste of time because it's making middling sales and it's pissing off fans of both series it's attempting to mash-up (Mostly SMT fans since most of the SMT influenced has been abolished from what I heard). It's two niche titles on a poorly marketed system with a niche plot, it's destined to flop and any publisher that's either sane or doesn't have enormous stacks of money they can jizz into every night while showering in expensive wine would've canned it or bonked the development team right on the head. The only thing this game has going for it is that it's a JRPG on a system where there aren't that many but that's really insignificant when you consider that anybody with a toaster, 20 bucks and desire to see scantily clad anime girls could just get Hyperdimension Neptunia on Steam or some shit.

I agree with you that the majority should not decide what we get in every single case, but in this case, the majority were two small but loyal groups of fans. Considering the size, if you piss off a major section of one, let alone both of them what you did to piss them off is probably a really bad idea and you probably shouldn't do it. And despite the fact that this game probably had a small budget, do remember they were planning to sell to two groups of fans so the budget is probably higher than you think.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Havel The Goddamn Rock

[Senario]

I just feel like this argument is pointless at this point lol. It's like you don't want to believe the reasons as to why the game isn't doing well and why it isn't going to do well in America.

I also have no clue why Catherine and Bayonetta are being brought up those games aren't mashups or crossovers correct me If I'm wrong.

I'll just simplify what I'm trying to say though

As much as you don't want to believe it yes this game did upset the majority of each fan base, like seriously look at the first trailer for this game and then the newest one people are pissed with the theme it just looks like weeb bait. Were people asking for like some crazy crossover with Marth fighting demifiend or some shit? Probably I think I read a lot about that. Is that what the developers had to do to get people to like the game? Or positive responses in general? Negative. All they had to do is make something that really felt like FE or felt like SMT and that woulda pleased at least one side maybe both who knows(I know the SMT side woulda been fine with either tbh)

Also another thing about this game it was originally gonna be rated M so that made me think it was gonna be pretty dark and deep but that got thrown out of the window RIP.

tl;dr A lot of people are upset with the idol theme, it was a pretty dumb move in all honesty but it is what it is maybe in the future they can clean it up.

I kinda just read bits and pieces of your post.

It's pretty easy to find criticism in Awakening, Map design was garbage which is kind of a big deal in Awakening most of the maps were just giant fields with tons of enemies thrown at you, nothing really unique in terms of enemy placement or terrain but this was fixed in Fates so whatever. I do think Awakening was a step in the right direction but that game isn't perfect by any means and it is pretty easy to find what was wrong with the game or what upset people.

Also you aren't locked into Nohr Prince(ss) in Fates you can pick a secondary class they just made it so you don't have access to all of them on one character cause that was kinda stupid tbh.

Not believing your reasons because you have no EVIDENCE of causation. It is like you looked at internet hate and said "Hey that must be the reason right?" If you used that logic, every Call of Duty game ever would bomb because loads of people dislike it. And the game sells tons every time anyway. There are many reasons it could've sold less, it released one day after Christmas, it had little advertising, the low install base of the Wii U, the fans hated it (as you might put it)...But really there is no evidence for any of these to be the right answer. We have numbers without reasons.

In all honesty just because people don't see how the game relates to either series doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is SMT and FE in there, very easy to spot and I would consider it a unique mashup. And the idol type pop music is only in tone, thanks to the language barrier people assumed that it was overly Japanese which apparently is now "weeb" and "Bad" as opposed to "Dark and gritty" which is now a "11/10 game. I actually understand Japanese so it really wasn't an issue for me from the start as it only took a bit to figure out what that initial song was about. And of course now that we have the full sound track we know that it is not all bubbly music but a diverse group of music that is honestly pretty well made. Again, I'll point to the battle theme/boss battle theme as some of my favorites.

Completely unreasonable criticisms that have no real basis besides personal preference seems to be the name of the game here. In addition to being against something simply because it is Japanese, in a Japanese game. What people did was Knee Jerk Reaction to the game because it wasn't Demifiend vs Marth. Plain and simple. The point in bringing up Catherine and Bayonetta was not to say they are crossovers but to say that they are games that clearly wouldn't sell well but were inventive, fun, and good games. There is no reason to dismiss this game just because it looks a certain way, though more to the point...the hive mind of people who hate the game is very effective in pushing people to agree with their dislike rather than looking at what the game offers and see if they would enjoy it. Surprise Surprise, people don't like to think for themselves and make the judgment on their own. Not to mention that the same people who complain about "Weeb bait" also seem to like SMT, FE, and Persona which are just about as Anime as you can get in their respective genres. There are more solid comparisons in the RPG department but that doesn't mean they still aren't solidly based on Japanese culture and Anime. There literally is a hot springs scene in both P3 and P4, a stereotypical HOT SPRINGS SCENE.

Would disagree with map design of FE Awakening being bad, I actually liked it and didn't find many, if any problems with it without nit picking. Opinions.

When I said it was a massive waste of time money I was talking from a publishing standpoint, I'm neutral (read: have zero fucks to give since I'm not buying it) on the direction the game has taken. A publisher will want to publish games such as Dark Souls or Dishonered because often times the developers behind those titles are fans of the particular niche and want to bring it into the modern day, and that's fine, it makes money and pleases audiences that haven't been satisfied for a while. This is a waste of time because it's making middling sales and it's pissing off fans of both series it's attempting to mash-up (Mostly SMT fans since most of the SMT influenced has been abolished from what I heard). It's two niche titles on a poorly marketed system with a niche plot, it's destined to flop and any publisher that's either sane or doesn't have enormous stacks of money they can jizz into every night while showering in expensive wine would've canned it or bonked the development team right on the head. The only thing this game has going for it is that it's a JRPG on a system where there aren't that many but that's really insignificant when you consider that anybody with a toaster, 20 bucks and desire to see scantily clad anime girls could just get Hyperdimension Neptunia on Steam or some shit.

I agree with you that the majority should not decide what we get in every single case, but in this case, the majority were two small but loyal groups of fans. Considering the size, if you piss off a major section of one, let alone both of them what you did to piss them off is probably a really bad idea and you probably shouldn't do it. And despite the fact that this game probably had a small budget, do remember they were planning to sell to two groups of fans so the budget is probably higher than you think.

If you really cared nothing about the game...why are you here? I mean, you said you don't want the game, you don't plan on buying it, and apparently you're neutral. Yet you are on the section of the forums specifically for this game. What is the deal? I ignore threads I don't take interest in.

I did hypothetical numbers to show how the game might be considered decently profitable to show you that it may not be all bad, I'm pretty sure everybody is tired of doom and gloom. These numbers are based on real stats that we do have access to currently, as we do not know the budget for the game we cannot tell if it is a success or failure. Business wise a waste would be something that doesn't earn money and to claim it is a failure or success already is premature. Though even that is a bit iffy if you make a good game or the property either pleases some fans/doesn't affect core fans or pleases core fans. Platinum games are cursed to sell low amounts of copies of pretty much every game they ever make but their games are almost universally good or acclaimed. Atlus is another company I'd consider as consistent with quality releases in several different categories along with Nintendo. And no, the game most likely doesn't boil down to scantily clad girls, they already censored Kiria in the Japanese version from what I've heard...that is the opposite of scantily clad. You bring no evidence that apparently that idol-motif is all this game is when you haven't played it nor do you know the story. And I can be pretty sure you don't speak or read Japanese, that is not all that common anymore. Look at it this way, the game will have its audience and you can keep saying you're neutral when your words clearly imply you are not. You can keep saying you don't care about the game but when you decide to even bother to go on the forum section of a game you care nothing about that is a clear contradiction. This game in no way affects core SMT or FE games but it has shown me a dark side of the community for both sides with extreme hate I didn't expect out of small fanbases which were mostly cool until recently. Unlike a replacement of either series it is a spinoff that you can choose to ignore or support. However; panning the spinoff game while knowing nothing about it is silly as is hailing this game as the best thing since sliced bread. If it were to replace both series completely then MAYBE I might understand as Devil May Cry suffered that fate. Though...I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as Social media+Videogames = flamewars and cesspools of the internet.

I'll be getting this game as I wish to judge for myself where the game stands on my personal list of games.

[eclipse]

Hey, you who posted before me.

You missed out on the various shitstorms in Fates. When things change, it'll bring out people who don't like it. That's natural. The amount of time some of them spend bashing a game because it doesn't appeal to them boggles my mind - it's complaining with no end goal, which is pointless in my mind.

There's a music CD out there with some of the songs in the game. Since music is a big part of the theme, give it a listen! I'm half-half on the songs. I don't like the sugary girl-pop songs, but I'm fine with the rest of them.

Edited January 5, 2016 by eclipse

[Jedi]

It is a mashup however, that is the point. People may not consider it a direct crossover but it is a mashup. I would disagree that not being a crossover makes it somehow worse than being one. Straight up crossovers are typically not good games.

Tell that to Marvel vs Capcom, Smash Brothers, Warriors Orochi, Project X Zone and various other games I could name right now.

I was not going with mashup being worse than crossover, I was just stating why people don't consider this a crossover, and heck Atlus doesn't even really consider this a crossover, its more. Their take on FE, more than anything else.

I do want to try this game out, but you have to at least admit the way they marketed it was a bit of a kick in the teeth, "Oh look its SMT x FE, how will that go?"... Then cue when we got the actual thing which wasn't what either fanbase wanted overall, I mean certain fans of both are gonna get it, but they hurt themselves with the hint of its existence, showing SMT and FE people, etc.

Plus the fact that they only used FE1/3/11/12 and 13 people is kinda lame, (Although I heard others do make cameos like Ilyana)

[The Geek]

I'm guessing the lack of success of this game is less SMT and FE fans utterly rejecting it and more the fact that the player base for a game like this didn't exist on the Wii U. It existed on the 3DS (which is where the majority of FE fans and mainline SMT fans are) and the PS4 (where the Persona and general JRPG fans are).

Edited January 5, 2016 by The Geek

[Senario]

Tell that to Marvel vs Capcom, Smash Brothers, Warriors Orochi, Project X Zone and various other games I could name right now.

I was not going with mashup being worse than crossover, I was just stating why people don't consider this a crossover, and heck Atlus doesn't even really consider this a crossover, its more. Their take on FE, more than anything else.

I do want to try this game out, but you have to at least admit the way they marketed it was a bit of a kick in the teeth, "Oh look its SMT x FE, how will that go?"... Then cue when we got the actual thing which wasn't what either fanbase wanted overall, I mean certain fans of both are gonna get it, but they hurt themselves with the hint of its existence, showing SMT and FE people, etc.

Plus the fact that they only used FE1/3/11/12 and 13 people is kinda lame, (Although I heard others do make cameos like Ilyana)

I did acknowledge there are exceptions to games being good and a crossover but that is limited to Fighting games usually and an odd game outside that. Smash and MvC is covered under these and I do agree those are good games. I actually play Smash bros though recently have stopped playing after years due to real life stuff. Smash 64 and Melee were pretty much masterpieces imo. Don't really care for the newer games personally but it isn't a big deal, I'd be super excited if a new game was like Melee or 64 but it isn't a dealbreaker if it is. I just won't get it/will get it eventually/try to only play casually as I wouldn't enjoy competitive play then. Marvel vs Capcom 2 and 3 are great games though I'm not particularly good at them, and I can only play on a fight stick as my hands hurt.

Warriors Orochi was panned, Project X zone is the definition of "average" not exceedingly great nor exceedingly bad. Just ok.

Hmm their marketing is pretty much non-existent. I do consider the teaser to show they were working on a project was probably bad but that is 100% the FANS' fault. They made assumptions about the project and then expected them to happen as if they were promised something when they weren't. It is like if I assumed the new star wars movie had flashy lightsaber combat (that was ultimately pointless) like the prequels but then got mad when the style was more like 4-6. Makes no sense because that would be on me for assuming something I was never promised. The "fanbase" that reacted are likely the vocal minority that I generally try to ignore in favor of forming my own opinion of the game. And I've seen a lot worse in terms of what people would call "Anime bait" or other similar terms to even consider this somewhat close.

I don't mind that they only used FE 1, 3, 11. 12, and 13. I mean the casts for those games are HUGE. And each character has a good amount of character depth. To put even more characters in there would ultimately sacrifice some part of the game. They put a lot in there already though, of course I would've loved to see some returning characters I liked such as Nephnee or Mia, but they put enough characters in there for me. I think Kellam might have been confirmed but I can't say I've seen him in anything related to the game.

Hey, you who posted before me.

You missed out on the various shitstorms in Fates. When things change, it'll bring out people who don't like it. That's natural. The amount of time some of them spend bashing a game because it doesn't appeal to them boggles my mind - it's complaining with no end goal, which is pointless in my mind.

There's a music CD out there with some of the songs in the game. Since music is a big part of the theme, give it a listen! I'm half-half on the songs. I don't like the sugary girl-pop songs, but I'm fine with the rest of them.

Yeah, I tend to avoid social media on some things important to me to avoid spoilers. Unfortunately I failed at that with the new Star Wars film. I did try to listen to some of the music, though I didn't go over all of them on purpose because I'd like to be pleasantly surprised at how it works out in game. Though, if they try to localize the songs I'm immediately jumping on those videos to listen to everything. I am fine with some normal language localization, I just have serious problems with music since I understand Japanese and in most cases I've seen they have to actually change the songs too much to apply English lyrics. It would be a shame

since this game clearly put a lot of work into their music.

And yeah, people spend way too much time hating on things they should care less about. I didn't like DmC (The reboot), but I elected not to buy it after the initial shock since it was replacing everything I knew about Devil May Cry. I've moved on to Bayonetta.

@The Geek

Could also be this, we don't know. It is true that JRPG fans have been typically limited to playstation only.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Senario

[MitoRequiem]

Senario is like a goddamn wall man. I pointed out and agreed on somethings but he just straight up looked at what he didn't like a commented on it even if I did agree with it in the first place.
Also using CoD in your argument when that series is worldwide popular and not a niche JRPG series. That series has a lot of love and a lot of hate but more love than hate for sure.

Anyways lots of factors as to why this game is doing bad I think The Geek's post is pretty much the tl;dr of it.

I still stand by that how the game looks turns off the majority. I guess we'll see when the game comes out

Edited January 5, 2016 by MitoRequiem

[Senario]

Senario is like a goddamn wall man. I pointed out and agreed on somethings but he just straight up looked at what he didn't like a commented on it even if I did agree with it in the first place.

Also using CoD in your argument when that series is worldwide popular and not a niche JRPG series. That series has a lot of love and a lot of hate but more love than hate for sure.

Anyways lots of factors as to why this game is doing bad I think The Geek's post is pretty much the tl;dr of it.

I still stand by that how the game looks turns off the majority. I guess we'll see when the game comes out

I pointed out that if you use the logic that you can draw a conclusion about the majority from what people say online it must apply to a game like that, You could point to other series like the Assassin's Creed Series of late or even the new Battlefront. However I'm pretty sure those are all successes despite outcry. The type of game doesn't matter. Call of Duty is by far not what I think of when I think "the majority likes it", If you looked only at the internet you would think it is universally hated. But I have a lot of friends who love the game, even I used to play many years ago in the CoD2 days. I no longer play because it is no longer for me.

In the end tossing money into marketing solves any problems with game quality by making sales.

I don't really need the majority's approval to enjoy the game personally so I'll be buying it. This "majority" argument is pretty silly though, as if every single player who has ever played FE or SMT were this "majority". I'll even buy the special edition if it is confirmed to be released locally.

[Avk]

I've gone through a whole thread on another forum that got pretty ugly and I kind of feel a little broken inside, I'm glad to see that it gets nowhere near that here.

There are plenty of reasons why the game doesn't/won't perform extremely well, most of them already mentionned here by multiple people, RPG players demographic not being huge on Wii U, sub optimal release date, theme not appealing...

However, I don't agree on people telling it was a mistake or a waste of money, as long as the game pleases at least some people, I think that's fine enough. It may be true if you only look at it on a pure business perspective, but as I said before, not all games are made for that reason. If it was the case, games made by Platinum, or things like The Last Guardian (I suppose, since I don't know much about this game or previous ones) would never be approved since they don't have a mainstream appeal and therefore don't tend to sell well. These games aren't made to sell tons of copies and make a lot of money, but to diversify the library and content gamers looking for different sort of games, and Nintendo really needed that at the time they first announced this collaboration, which is now backfiring. It was indeed their mistake annoucing it too early, but we are now several months after the re reveal, and I would have thought that people would get over it and move on, but I'm apparently asking too much.

I should precise, I'm not asking people to be ok with the direction the game took, I perfectly understand that it's not appealing to most people, but repeating all the time "This is not SMT X FE" or "But SMT X FE" isn't really getting anywhere, especially since such thing never really existed in the first place.

On a side note, the game is surprisingly getting pretty positive reviews overall on amazon.co.jp, I've heard that the reviews there are usually extremely harsh.

Just saw one of the reviews, and from what I've understood of it, it seems like it resumes perfectly how the game is/will be received.

I'm kind of surprised, but at the same time, not so much, they got the same reaction as here apparently.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Avk

[Naughx]

What. A. LOAD. Here is common sense, which is not a news flash because it's logical: sales in one region do not affect sales in another. Period. Plus they've already made a big splash about it overseas anyway so it's far too late to yank that. Once again, hit some tranquilizers and simmer down. There is no point to getting wound up.

Also, they probably already started the localization for it before the japanese release.

So I'm pretty sure they would want to finish it.

[ckc22]

But we don't know that the majority don't want it.

Except that the game had 23k first week sales.

SMT IV had 190k first week sales in Japan.

FE: Fates had 300k first week sales in Japan.

It's pretty obvious that the majority of these two fanbases do not want this game. Does that make it a bad game? Not necessarily. But I find it hard to argue at this point that the game is exactly what everyone was hoping for.

[Soapbar]

If you really cared nothing about the game...why are you here? I mean, you said you don't want the game, you don't plan on buying it, and apparently you're neutral. Yet you are on the section of the forums specifically for this game. What is the deal? I ignore threads I don't take interest in.

A simple answer my good man, I saw this thread on the main page of the forums, the title intrigued me, I looked further into the thread and found your post. I then felt inclined to respond in the name of honest discussion. That and I do have some interest in how Atlus managed to make another awful business decision after another.

I did hypothetical numbers to show how the game might be considered decently profitable to show you that it may not be all bad, I'm pretty sure everybody is tired of doom and gloom. These numbers are based on real stats that we do have access to currently, as we do not know the budget for the game we cannot tell if it is a success or failure.

but i like doom and gloom, it fuels my edgy teen fantasy.

or something.

It's a bit premature, I do admit, but with the limited info we have at the time, premature speculations are all we have. I'll drop the budget talk for now.

And no, the game most likely doesn't boil down to scantily clad girls, they already censored Kiria in the Japanese version from what I've heard...that is the opposite of scantily clad. You bring no evidence that apparently that idol-motif is all this game is when you haven't played it nor do you know the story.

I never said it did, and I don't remember saying the idol-motif is all the game had. What I was saying with that statement was that to the general audience, as well as the numerous angry SMT/FE fans, that is was this game is and to them, there are much cheaper and more accessible games that give the same experience. This game could be a 20-hour dive into the horrors of a neo-nazi germany and the idols are only a front for their devious plans (Persona 2 had Hitler as it's final boss so that wouldn't surprise me actually) but the trailers don't show that, and in age where weeaboo animu fightan magic carries a large stigma, slapping SMT and FE onto that probably isn't going to be profitable.

And I can be pretty sure you don't speak or read Japanese, that is not all that common anymore. Look at it this way, the game will have its audience and you can keep saying you're neutral when your words clearly imply you are not. You can keep saying you don't care about the game but when you decide to even bother to go on the forum section of a game you care nothing about that is a clear contradiction.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, but to clarify, I'm neutral because even if I loved anything and everything about the game, it wouldn't matter because I don't own a Wii U, and I don't buy consoles for one game, less so a game that I more or less offput by. I guess saying neutral isn't that accurate. I don't particularly like the direction this game has taken, but I don't really dwell on it, as it would be silly to. The only reason I'm here is because I saw the thread and felt inclined to give comment on the situation as it felt obvious to me it would happen, as well as a response to your post, which I felt made a bad point. So yes, I do take a small interest in the game, but I don't see what my interest in the game has to do with the discussion at hand

This game in no way affects core SMT or FE games but it has shown me a dark side of the community for both sides with extreme hate I didn't expect out of small fanbases which were mostly cool until recently.

Small fanbases are generally very loyal to their game, a lot of times very much overly so, a lot of "hardcore" SMT fans loathe Persona, and there are a lot of Dark Souls fans that bash DS2 for no reason (I have no comment on DS2 as I've never played it, I only just jumped on the pain train)

[Aiddon]

Also, they probably already started the localization for it before the japanese release.

So I'm pretty sure they would want to finish it.

Yes, but that makes sense and thus isn't allowed on the internet. It's what I like to call Soap Opera Syndrome; no matter how illogical it is, people always go for the more dramatic option because rationality is boring. The game is still going to be released, Atlus is still gonna make stuff for Nintendo systems, and are probably still gonna do collaborations down the line if certain teams find the time. So, yeah, world still turns, we're still getting games, and nothing has actually changed aside from people finding an excuse to be histrionic about the game. Which might be easier to take seriously if they hadn't done this exact same thing five billion times before during the course of this game's development. Pick your battles lest you become The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

[Jave]

Except that the game had 23k first week sales.

SMT IV had 190k first week sales in Japan.

FE: Fates had 300k first week sales in Japan.

Conclusion: The majority of the 3DS install base don't own a Wii U.

[ckc22]

Conclusion: The majority of the 3DS install base don't own a Wii U.

Conclusion: clearly the game isn't a system seller then.

I don't understand the impetus to defend the game - I'm not even calling it bad - I'm pointing out the obvious - it's not what people expected or wanted.

[Jave]

Conclusion: clearly the game isn't a system seller then.

No one ever expected it to be.

[ckc22]

Clearly the game could have sold 10 copies and the same people would be rushing to say it doesn't mean anything. So...