Germany and the Refugee Crisis

[dondon151]

any particular reason? basically my whole perception of him is contained within his interview i posted and one with wolf blitzer, both of which seem to have good dialogue from him. i don't know much aside from his general feelings about how we should be talking about the middle east.

upon further inspection, i can see what you're saying.

aslan tends to categorize problems for which muslim countries are criticized as having absolutely nothing at all to do with islam, which is usually untrue to various degrees. iirc he's also been accused of misrepresenting his academic credentials.

[Alazen]

Aslan isn't the first "Progressive" to be an apologist for Islam, Islam leaning nations, etc. Sam Harris complained about this year's ago.

[ShadowKing23]

Yeah the amount of refugees in Germany are increasing.I went to go visit my home town and there were alot of refugees....well they did take up most of the town tbh

[Sentacotus]

I don't really come to this part of the forum but this topic interests me so I'll put in my two cents.

The problem with this is pretty fundamental. You have a mass of people with a completely different culture, language, and so on and you're not forcing them in any way to assimilate to your own society. So when you have this happen its no surprise that you begin to have problems. I can't think of a single instance where a mass of people relocated with no sort of immigration vetting process or assimilation and in turn didn't force the area they moved into to change to their customs and way of life. Its a sheer aspect of human nature and quite frankly numbers. Of course where the West is largely at a disadvantage (particularly in Germany where you effectively risk being called a Nazi if you appear slightly xenophobic or nationalistic in any way) is that we are often so open to diversity to the point where we think everyone should be able to get along without having to adapt or adjust some of their values or language. We should all just be accepting of everything and anything because if you're not by god you're a biggot racist. It would be something if these migrants were coming wanting a better life...and become German. But that is not so much the case. Do they want the benefit of a better life, economic prosperity, and not being shot at? Absolutely. Who wouldn't? The problem is that you can't just let in a mass of people and not force them to assimilate into your society and expect things to be gumdrops and rainbows for your own society and people already living there. It fundamentally does not work that way. Countries, nations, and civilization fundamentally need some sort of commonality to succeed and stand on. Otherwise eventually one will win out and drive the other out the other usually through population sometimes through violence or a combination of both.

Edited January 27, 2016 by LordTaco42

[Snowy_One]

When it comes to immigration I tend to see people as one of three groups. In this case...

Group 1) Germans living in Germany. These are people whom have come from their homelands, the middle east and north Africa in this case, and put in work and effort to integrate into their new community. They haven't forsaken their heritage but understand that they are in a different country with different rules, expectations, and culture and should learn to at least get along with it. These are the people you want immigrating to your country as they are usually the ones whom are actually capable of being good citizens.

Group 2) North Africans/Middle Easterners living in Germany. These are where a sizable chunk of at least some of these immigrants and refugee's fit in. These are the people who come from their homeland but do not attempt to accept the culture, norms, and the like of their new land. They will abide by its laws and rules but they do not desire to become part of the place. This group can be problematic but the real issue causing the crisis is...

Group 3) North Africans/Middle Easterners living in North Africa/Middle East in a place that happens to be called 'Germany'. This is the REAL problem here. These are the people who come into a new place and continue to live exactly as if they were still in their homeland. Their geographical location may have changed but, as far as they're concerned, they're still in their homeland and these 'Germans' are the foreigners trying to intrude upon THEIR way of life. Whenever one of them does something fine by their laws but not Germany's laws it's the Germans who are in the wrong for trying to hold them accountable.

The problem is group 3. Many of these people will come to Germany or other EU places expecting to be taken care of and protected while not bothering to give anything in return and potentially acting outright hostile to their new land. Unfortunately this group is causing such a problem that even the U.S. has become wary and distrustful of the refugee's. How can you not when some of the most common headlines include women getting raped by people clearly belonging to the third? It's a large part of the reason Trump has the steam he does; because of people like that. I'm not someone knowledgable about the EU and its politics, let alone Germany, but I do firmly believe that what is happening there is something that needs serious addressment and could very well impact the American elections over here. Personally I believe that this shouldn't be a surprise when little to no effort at screening is made, people don't integrate, and policing isn't accounted for in response.

[Life]

When it comes to immigration I tend to see people as one of three groups. In this case...

Group 1) Germans living in Germany. These are people whom have come from their homelands, the middle east and north Africa in this case, and put in work and effort to integrate into their new community. They haven't forsaken their heritage but understand that they are in a different country with different rules, expectations, and culture and should learn to at least get along with it. These are the people you want immigrating to your country as they are usually the ones whom are actually capable of being good citizens.

Group 2) North Africans/Middle Easterners living in Germany. These are where a sizable chunk of at least some of these immigrants and refugee's fit in. These are the people who come from their homeland but do not attempt to accept the culture, norms, and the like of their new land. They will abide by its laws and rules but they do not desire to become part of the place. This group can be problematic but the real issue causing the crisis is...

Group 3) North Africans/Middle Easterners living in North Africa/Middle East in a place that happens to be called 'Germany'. This is the REAL problem here. These are the people who come into a new place and continue to live exactly as if they were still in their homeland. Their geographical location may have changed but, as far as they're concerned, they're still in their homeland and these 'Germans' are the foreigners trying to intrude upon THEIR way of life. Whenever one of them does something fine by their laws but not Germany's laws it's the Germans who are in the wrong for trying to hold them accountable.

The problem is group 3. Many of these people will come to Germany or other EU places expecting to be taken care of and protected while not bothering to give anything in return and potentially acting outright hostile to their new land. Unfortunately this group is causing such a problem that even the U.S. has become wary and distrustful of the refugee's. How can you not when some of the most common headlines include women getting raped by people clearly belonging to the third? It's a large part of the reason Trump has the steam he does; because of people like that. I'm not someone knowledgable about the EU and its politics, let alone Germany, but I do firmly believe that what is happening there is something that needs serious addressment and could very well impact the American elections over here. Personally I believe that this shouldn't be a surprise when little to no effort at screening is made, people don't integrate, and policing isn't accounted for in response.

I have a question.

Are you an immigrant?

No? Then you don't know how difficult it is to assimilate into a completely different society. Beyond learning an entire new language in order to do simple tasks such as work or paying bills, there's also the fact that a lot of these people (my favourite example are Eritreans because they've fled true horrors) have no education, no skills and no money. As a result, they will live together in small communities and if they end up staying in said country permanently, they'll carve out their own little society where it might be Germany but it feels like Eritrea.

I know this firsthand because I am an immigrant myself.

[tuvarkz]

I have a question.

Are you an immigrant?

No? Then you don't know how difficult it is to assimilate into a completely different society. Beyond learning an entire new language in order to do simple tasks such as work or paying bills, there's also the fact that a lot of these people (my favourite example are Eritreans because they've fled true horrors) have no education, no skills and no money. As a result, they will live together in small communities and if they end up staying in said country permanently, they'll carve out their own little society where it might be Germany but it feels like Eritrea.

I know this firsthand because I am an immigrant myself.

Bollocks, Immigrant here as well. Of course then, I've spoken Italian with considerable fluency at it since I've been a teen; and I'm studying at college with minimal to no issues about the classes being Italian. My group of friends is Italian and I've mostly taken to Italian costumes (Heck, I've even taken up afternoon naps quite often when I hadn't done since I had memory of). Of course then, being from a strongly Western influenced country does help a lot.

Edited February 3, 2016 by tuvarkz

[blah the Prussian]

Bollocks, Immigrant here as well. Of course then, I've spoken Italian with considerable fluency at it since I've been a teen; and I'm studying at college with minimal to no issues about the classes being Italian. My group of friends is Italian and I've mostly taken to Italian costumes (Heck, I've even taken up afternoon naps quite often when I hadn't done since I had memory of). Of course then, being from a strongly Western influenced country does help a lot.

That last sentence is key. When you immigrated, how old were you? At a young age, immersion in a language works wonders for learning it. People from Eritrea are often poorly educated, because the dictator of Eritrea prefers to buy himself a new car rather than pay for his country's education. People from Eritrea and Syria also haven't had a lot of time to learn German; most of them have been in Germany for less than a year. Give them time.

[Yojinbo]

There's also the fact tht german is really obnoxiously difficult to learn for somebody whose native laguage isn't indo-european. Integrating oneself into a society as complex as a central/western european one is a daunting task that will take a good chunk of time.

[Naughx]

That last sentence is key. When you immigrated, how old were you? At a young age, immersion in a language works wonders for learning it. People from Eritrea are often poorly educated, because the dictator of Eritrea prefers to buy himself a new car rather than pay for his country's education. People from Eritrea and Syria also haven't had a lot of time to learn German; most of them have been in Germany for less than a year. Give them time.

Tuvarkz's first language (Spanish) is very close to Italian which helps a lot to intergrate.

The main religion of Chile is Roman Catholicism, it is the same for Italy.

Chile has a very "romance" culture due to Spanish colonialism. (Their whole legal sytem is a western European-based civil code)

Edited February 3, 2016 by Naughx

[Snowy_One]

There's also the fact tht german is really obnoxiously difficult to learn for somebody whose native laguage isn't indo-european. Integrating oneself into a society as complex as a central/western european one is a daunting task that will take a good chunk of time.

Maybe, but there is a huge difference between 'I don't get all the nuances of this culture but am still trying to learn' and 'Let's go rape these women because they wear revealing clothes despite that this would be massively douchy and horrible for any guest anywhere.'

[tuvarkz]

Tuvarkz's first language (Spanish) is very close to Italian which helps a lot to intergrate.

The main religion of Chile is Roman Catholicism, it is the same for Italy.

Chile has a very "romance" culture due to Spanish colonialism. (Their whole legal sytem is a western European-based civil code)

I'm from Perú, not from Chile (People need to stop making this kind of mistake, depending on the person it's about as bad as confusing Japan with China).

Also, agreeing with Snowy One. Generally just being polite does a lot of the job to make people become friendly towards you.

[Yojinbo]

Maybe, but there is a huge difference between 'I don't get all the nuances of this culture but am still trying to learn' and 'Let's go rape these women because they wear revealing clothes despite that this would be massively douchy and horrible for any guest anywhere.'

What does this have to do with anything I said? <_<

[blah the Prussian]

Maybe, but there is a huge difference between 'I don't get all the nuances of this culture but am still trying to learn' and 'Let's go rape these women because they wear revealing clothes despite that this would be massively douchy and horrible for any guest anywhere.'

Oh, no doubt. The majority of people, however, are not the latter.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3mcsDTDz24

"Politicians" lost their head about this topic already.

Translation of this video: A politician of a little German party demanded to make use of guns, when refugees invade the German border illegally.

To the topic:

Merkel does a good job though. It's just that she has the lion's share of the refugees, which bothers the politician and inhabitants.

I only have a problem with refugees and immigrants, who don't adapt to our customs and only want to live at cost of our taxes.

Whenever I'm in a train, I feel as foreigner in my own country, because everything is spoken except for German. And I really have the feeling that these people don't want to learn this language.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Tetragrammaton]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135497/Migrants-attack-pensioners-who-stood-up-for-woman-they-were-harassing-on-Munich-metro.html

I dont know if this is how the Arabs often do on their daily basis in their homeland.

Edited February 4, 2016 by hanhnn

[blah the Prussian]

No confirmation that these people were migrants, asylum seekers, or otherwise. GG Telegraph.

[tuvarkz]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/25/watch-2/

There are multiple reports happening of similar occurrences.

Edited February 4, 2016 by tuvarkz

[blah the Prussian]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/25/watch-2/

There are multiple reports happening of similar occurrences.

And this is from Brietbart. See the problem?

[tuvarkz]

Not really-I find Breitbart more reliable than many other internet news sites.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Apparently this video was only publicied to put refugees in a worse spotlight since the backround of these people is unknown.

In general physical violence in trains or metros by arabic people for different reasons aren't news for me at all.

Was witness of them three times in the past five years.

It's more a problem of multi-cultirism and that the fact that the presence of the police isn't strong enough.

Honestly I don't feel safe on a station and in a train anymore.

I really would like to see, if 1-2 policemen would be placed in each train to increase the safety. But of course safety is too expensive for the rail travel organisations.

[blah the Prussian]

Not really-I find Breitbart more reliable than many other internet news sites.

They racially profiled him as a migrant despite the fact there was no evidence he was actually a migrant.

[tuvarkz]

They racially profiled him as a migrant despite the fact there was no evidence he was actually a migrant.

Alright, let's assume he's a child of migrants (or grandchild, etc)-This would mean that the problem is not just immigrant Muslims having a disproportionately high crime rate, but the second generation onwards still presenting this issue.

[blah the Prussian]

Alright, let's assume he's a child of migrants (or grandchild, etc)-This would mean that the problem is not just immigrant Muslims having a disproportionately high crime rate, but the second generation onwards still presenting this issue.

A video doesn't do it for me. I want statistics here, none of which Brietbart provided.

[eclipse]

Not really-I find Breitbart more reliable than many other internet news sites.

Just a bit of advice: Find news sources who support your views (political/religious/economic/whatever). Find news sources that go against those views. Find VERY BIASED news sources, regardless of which way they lean. Then, draw a conclusion.

Every news source will have a bias. If you want the true story, you're going to have to read between a lot of lines. With a politically-charged issue like this, you'll definitely want to see every last angle there is!