Birthright Chapter 14

[Jyosua]

Haha, I normally don't ever make topics or ask questions myself, I just take care of things in the background for the site. :P

Anyhow, I'm playing Birthright on Hard/Classic without grinding. I'm having trouble on this chapter because it looks like there's way more enemies on hard than normal, but they also seem to be higher level than my units. Additionally, I keep getting flanked from both sides by like 2 cavaliers and a paladin, while 3 knights and a bowman that can be easily taken care of come down the center. Choosing to group in one side or the other doesn't seem to help, because all three groups seem to come down the map at the same time.

Does Birthright expect you to grind? Or is there a way to prevent all three groups from attacking at the same time? I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what. haha

Edit: Thanks, Tangerine, for calling me a newb. :P

[Jedi]

What I basically did (On the same difficulty as well), was had Ryoma lead partly down the middle (but angled so he drew in some of the stronger units as well) while the others followed in a tight formation behind, and I just winged it from there spreading out as I needed to, I don't recall having too many issues with the chapter aside from the usual wonky hit rates.

I hadn't grinded that much (or even at all) at that point in time. Sorry I don't recall my exact strat as that was a number of days ago when I did it and I did it in one go ^^;

[Jyosua]

What I basically did (On the same difficulty as well), was had Ryoma lead partly down the middle (but angled so he drew in some of the stronger units as well) while the others followed in a tight formation behind, and I just winged it from there spreading out as I needed to, I don't recall having too many issues with the chapter aside from the usual wonky hit rates.

I hadn't grinded that much (or even at all) at that point in time. Sorry I don't recall my exact strat as that was a number of days ago when I did it and I did it in one go ^^;

Yeah, speaking of hit rates, 3% hit chances actually hitting is ridiculous. lol That happened to me, but I can't remember the unit class.

[Tangerine]

Edit: Thanks, Tangerine, for calling me a newb. :P

You started our edit war three months ago, this battle will prove more difficult than any.

You're our newb.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Tangerine

[Thor Odinson]

For Lunatic I pretty much use the bait-and-eliminate method. Pull down a group with a reasonably tanky unit, then just kill them all come player phase. Limit your Enemy Phase exposure if you can. Feed the Paladin to Ryoma because he likes promoted exp. This should apply on Hard as well.

Birthright doesn't really expect grinding, no. I went through Lunatic without grinding fine.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Griffonite]

It's been a while since I played that chapter, so I don't remember much specifics, but I do remember having some trouble with it. That said, it's not necessary to grind at all. Kaden's beastbane helps a lot. What I did was stay close to the starting point, letting enemies come to me. Everyone had a purpose, whether it was attacking a unit, debuffing, or drawing the next wave's aggro. I took like five or six turns clearing out the bottom, then advancing to the knights in front of the fort. After that, it's easy street because the enemies in the fort don't aggro until you're in their range.

EDIT: it's also not necessary to give Ryoma kills, but he does make a pretty good fly swatter if you get cornered.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Griffonite

[Jyosua]

For Lunatic I pretty much use the bait-and-eliminate method. Pull down a group with a reasonably tanky unit, then just kill them all come player phase. Limit your Enemy Phase exposure if you can. Feed the Paladin to Ryoma because he likes promoted exp. This should apply on Hard as well.

Birthright doesn't really expect grinding, no. I went through Lunatic without grinding fine.

This is generally how I already play. The problem I'm having is that putting one tanky unit in range seems to pull multiple groups, which I am not prepared to deal with. lol

[Thor Odinson]

This is generally how I already play. The problem I'm having is that putting one tanky unit in range seems to pull multiple groups, which I am not prepared to deal with. lol

Are you using guard stance? If you have a lance unit, the guard naginata Hinoka came with is very handy. Worst comes to worse I think throwing Ryoma at them works pretty well anyway because he should be oneshotting most of them (if not, pair him with Scarlet or something) and if they somehow manage to hit him it's gonna put him in vantage range so he basically doesn't care, but he also doesn't really get exp from anything but the promoted enemies so I wouldn't do that except as a last resort.

I usually just put the tanky unit at the very edge of one, though if another group gets pulled I throw the tank at them as a distraction and just let my team mop up the first group. I usually place the bulkier units like Scarlet or Rinkah (actually I had those two paired up that chapter and the bulk level was pretty hilarious) closer to the second group so they can shield my more glass canon-y units.

[Jyosua]

Are you using guard stance? If you have a lance unit, the guard naginata Hinoka came with is very handy. Worst comes to worse I think throwing Ryoma at them works pretty well anyway because he should be oneshotting most of them (if not, pair him with Scarlet or something) and if they somehow manage to hit him it's gonna put him in vantage range so he basically doesn't care, but he also doesn't really get exp from anything but the promoted enemies so I wouldn't do that except as a last resort.

I usually just put the tanky unit at the very edge of one, though if another group gets pulled I throw the tank at them as a distraction and just let my team mop up the first group. I usually place the bulkier units like Scarlet or Rinkah (actually I had those two paired up that chapter and the bulk level was pretty hilarious) closer to the second group so they can shield my more glass canon-y units.

This is what I'm dealing with:

http://imgur.com/YVAKqCa

[Thor Odinson]

This is what I'm dealing with:

20160229_154930.jpg

21 HP, eh? Ouch. That looks like screwage right there. I recommend restarting and grab an HP tonic in the Rod shop for Rinkah. And a Def tonic for that matters if she's gonna be the main tank. If you wanna use her long term even toss the angelic robe at her. Better safe than sorry. Since Birthright throws you a lot of money, buying tonics is pretty good practice if you feel like your stats aren't up to par.

Instead of going straight down the middle, I started pulling enemies to the side, which gives the other groups a bigger gap to travel before getting to me, so I have sufficient time to prepare for another group as they move. I remember my initial positioning was rinkah front, scarlet back. This gives Rinkah even more bulk. I eqip Throwing Club +1 forge into one of the cav's range (the throwing club is to make a dent in the archer) while the rest of my team moved as close to the edge of the range of the archer as possible. The middle group is gonna come down after I wipe the left, so that's when I threw my Rinkah at them again and also worked some Ryoma magic there.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Jyosua]

21 HP, eh? Ouch. That looks like screwage right there. I recommend restarting and grab an HP tonic in the Rod shop for Rinkah. And a Def tonic for that matters if she's gonna be the main tank. If you wanna use her long term even toss the angelic robe at her. Better safe than sorry. Since Birthright throws you a lot of money, buying tonics is pretty good practice if you feel like your stats aren't up to par.

Instead of going straight down the middle, I started pulling enemies to the side, which gives the other groups a bigger gap to travel before getting to me, so I have sufficient time to prepare for another group as they move. I remember my initial positioning was rinkah front, scarlet back. This gives Rinkah even more bulk. I eqip Throwing Club +1 forge into one of the cav's range (the throwing club is to make a dent in the archer) while the rest of my team moved as close to the edge of the range of the archer as possible. The middle group is gonna come down after I wipe the left, so that's when I threw my Rinkah at them again and also worked some Ryoma magic there.

Those front units aren't really the problem. The archers and caveliers are. lol There's too many units. They all aggro at once and my units are definitely not strong enough to tank and kill them all. Literally the next turn the cavaliers will reach and be able to attack literally anyone on the outside of this formation.

What happened when I pull them to the side was of very little difference. The mounted units just catch up too quickly, everywhere on the map. I also tried dividing into two forces, but then the knights pick a side and that side gets fucked. I can't see a way to get through this without someone dying.

Edit: I think I may have found a way. Using Ryoma and Azura to take out the left archer Turn 1 and mass migrating everyone over there seems to make this more reasonable. I feel uncomfortable relying on Ryoma so much... generally I don't use prepromoted units that much. I'll let you know if I manage to get past this. The left side seems to have one less unit and it takes a little longer for the enemy units to catch up there.

[Thor Odinson]

What if you buy your entire team HP/Def tonics. A +5hp+2def increase across the board might help. +str+spd on those that need to kill things faster.

If you gotta toss Ryouma entirely at one of those groups, you might wanna try that instead. I think the initial rush is definitely the hardest part because the other groups do get baited one at the time. Putting Scarlet on him should help if you think his bulk is lacking-and since she also gives str and that'll help him oneshot stuff if Vantage ever kicks in. On the other hand, if you can get Scarlet to oneround one of those archers preemptively, she should be able to tank the entire group since her bulk is also very good.

[Jyosua]

What if you buy your entire team HP/Def tonics. A +5hp+2def increase across the board might help. +str+spd on those that need to kill things faster.

If you gotta toss Ryouma entirely at one of those groups, you might wanna try that instead. I think the initial rush is definitely the hardest part because the other groups do get baited one at the time. Putting Scarlet on him should help if you think his bulk is lacking-and since she also gives str and that'll help him oneshot stuff if Vantage ever kicks in. On the other hand, if you can get Scarlet to oneround one of those archers preemptively, she should be able to tank the entire group since her bulk is also very good.

That would require money, which you don't get a lot of, without grinding. lol

Anyhow, I got past the first part of the map, which is actually the hardest part, it seems. Then, on the castle part (which is pretty damn easy) I made a mistake and Kaze died. Didn't expect the enemy to use an archer and berserker together to get to him. Woops. I think I can get through this map though, with one more try. It basically requires pair up and Ryoma/Scarlet, though.

[Thor Odinson]

Really? I felt Birthright just throws money at you and I made a lot of reckless spending decisions involving forges. I think even if you don't do full team tonic--which do cost a bit, HP/Def on your main tank is only 300g a chapter, though, which isn't too bad. I also like to utilize the kitchen later on--though definitely watch for the bad cooks.

Ryoma and Scarlet are both really good and I'd recommend taking them long term, even. And I definitely agree that the first few turns are the toughest to deal with on that map.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[CocoaGalaxy]

i suppose if you really have to, you can unequip Ryoma and Scarlet and have them try to draw some enemies away from the main group while your units try to wrap up the units. The chapter is kind of hard. For the top part of the map, it's really just a matter of positioning.

In an absolute last case resort you could just use Ryoma and Scarlet and have them sweep most of the map and leave some exp for the rest, if it's really necessary.

Hoshido isn't necessarily a cakewalk really, it's mostly that different players have different experiences and it can really change opinions.

And choices of units really.

Protip: Remember to use effective weaponry as often as you can

Edited March 1, 2016 by CocoaGalaxy

[nflchamp]

I'm looking at that picture and asking myself, "Why aren't those cavalier half dead already?"

My second question is "Why the heck haven't we got dual guards to lower damage on EP?"

Also, if I recall from my playthrough, those middle archers died on PP and I only baited the cavs.

[Chaotix]

I think your problem might be that you are waiting for them to corner you like that. If you are still at the start line with all those enemies there it seems like you probably waited there at least one turn, maybe two?

You want to aggro the nearest enemy groups on turn one, so you can kill them quickly and have a breather for the next group. Playing this chapter that way I never had to face more waves than I could handle, and I was playing on Hard with no grinding too.

Also- give Rinkah the Hammer so she can one-shot those knights. And don't be afraid to use Ryoma to soften up or even kill promoted units when you need to. There is plenty of experience to be had in Birthright even without grinding, and as long as you are not using Ryoma to kill half the map, everyone else will catch up. He'll still be one of your best units once everyone else is promoted though!

[Jyosua]

I think your problem might be that you are waiting for them to corner you like that. If you are still at the start line with all those enemies there it seems like you probably waited there at least one turn, maybe two?

You want to aggro the nearest enemy groups on turn one, so you can kill them quickly and have a breather for the next group. Playing this chapter that way I never had to face more waves than I could handle, and I was playing on Hard with no grinding too.

Also- give Rinkah the Hammer so she can one-shot those knights. And don't be afraid to use Ryoma to soften up or even kill promoted units when you need to. There is plenty of experience to be had in Birthright even without grinding, and as long as you are not using Ryoma to kill half the map, everyone else will catch up. He'll still be one of your best units once everyone else is promoted though!

That particular picture was just to show how the cavalier move without placing anyone in their aggro range and how many of them there are.

On a side note, Hammers don't exist at this point in the game. I've upgraded my Dawn Armory once, but I've never seen a club equivalent of a hammer in there. So, I'm not sure where you expect me to get one from. lol

Anyhow, I got past this chapter. What I ended up doing was this:

Turn 1, take Ryoma and Azura and kill the left archer using Ryoma. Start moving people towards the left.

Turn 2 onwards: start taking a defensive stance and make sure no weak units are left exposed. Put priority on finishing off the closest caveliers and kill any archers that get close. Make sure to never let promoted enemy units pick which units they get to attack on Enemy phase. Force them into an option you want.

The entire field portion of the map progressively moves forward to attack you, even if you don't put any units within their reach. Once you get past the first wave of 3 groups by picking a side, it's just an exercise in crafty positioning and killing the right units to minimize damage taken during the enemy phase. If you can get past the first 2 turns without losing anybody, the map gets progressively easier. I didn't have to buy any tonics whatsoever and I only had to use Scarlet and Ryoma for a couple groups of enemies.

I found the left side easier than the right, simply because there's one less enemy there to deal with. That doesn't sound like a whole big difference, but it helped a lot. Getting rid of the archer and taking that side early on was the most important thing to getting past the first couple turns.

[ChaosGallade]

That particular picture was just to show how the cavalier move without placing anyone in their aggro range and how many of them there are.

On a side note, Hammers don't exist at this point in the game. I've upgraded my Dawn Armory once, but I've never seen a club equivalent of a hammer in there. So, I'm not sure where you expect me to get one from. lol

Anyhow, I got past this chapter. What I ended up doing was this:

Turn 1, take Ryoma and Azura and kill the left archer using Ryoma. Start moving people towards the left.

Turn 2 onwards: start taking a defensive stance and make sure no weak units are left exposed. Put priority on finishing off the closest caveliers and kill any archers that get close. Make sure to never let promoted enemy units pick which units they get to attack on Enemy phase. Force them into an option you want.

The entire field portion of the map progressively moves forward to attack you, even if you don't put any units within their reach. Once you get past the first wave of 3 groups by picking a side, it's just an exercise in crafty positioning and killing the right units to minimize damage taken during the enemy phase. If you can get past the first 2 turns without losing anybody, the map gets progressively easier. I didn't have to buy any tonics whatsoever and I only had to use Scarlet and Ryoma for a couple groups of enemies.

I found the left side easier than the right, simply because there's one less enemy there to deal with. That doesn't sound like a whole big difference, but it helped a lot. Getting rid of the archer and taking that side early on was the most important thing to getting past the first couple turns.

A Great Knight in Chapter 12 drops his Hammer if you beat him. That's how I was able to give one to Rinkah before passing it on to Scarlet.

Edited March 2, 2016 by ChaosGallade

[Azure Sen]

On a side note, Hammers don't exist at this point in the game. I've upgraded my Dawn Armory once, but I've never seen a club equivalent of a hammer in there. So, I'm not sure where you expect me to get one from. lol

One of the enemies in Chapter 12 drops a Hammer. Your lv. 2 Armory should have a Sting Shuriken, which has the Anti-Armor effect as well.

[Jyosua]

Ahhh, that's the escape mission, right? I rushed that one, since it seemed like suicide to keep going on that map. I wondered if I might regret that later...

I have a few Sting Shuriken, but my units that can use it kinda got screwed on Strength, so they don't really do much damage.

[Azure Sen]

Ahhh, that's the escape mission, right? I rushed that one, since it seemed like suicide to keep going on that map. I wondered if I might regret that later...

I have a few Sting Shuriken, but my units that can use it kinda got screwed on Strength, so they don't really do much damage.

How's your Felicia? If her Magic's doing okay and her Thrown rank has hit C you may want to invest in the Flame Shuriken for her if you haven't already, since it's a magical weapon and thus works off her Mag and hits Res. Unfortunately, Hoshido doesn't have much in the way of Anti-Armor beyond the Sting Shuriken, the Hammer and magic.

[Jyosua]

How's your Felicia? If her Magic's doing okay and her Thrown rank has hit C you may want to invest in the Flame Shuriken for her if you haven't already, since it's a magical weapon and thus works off her Mag and hits Res. Unfortunately, Hoshido doesn't have much in the way of Anti-Armor beyond the Sting Shuriken, the Hammer and magic.

I actually noticed that in the shop and considered buying one. I decided to wait until this chapter was over to see whether I'd need to spend my money on anything else first though. Are the Flame Shurikens very effective if the character has a good magic stat? I'm actually not sure how magic weapons work in this iteration of the game. Do they solely use the Magic stat?

[Thor Odinson]

They do use the magic stat. If you're using Felicia, it'd be good to invest in one for her, since her str is shit and her mag is solid.

[Azure Sen]

Just out of curiosity, have you been using Orochi at all? Her speed's pretty low, but her magic is so high (that 80%) that she usually doesn't need to double any non-magic enemies. And if you need a more battle-ready magic user, you could always use Orochi temporarily in order to capture Daniela as long as you have a prison set up. Granted, it will take a while to convince her to join you.

Edited March 2, 2016 by AzureSen