Fates Japanese Reception

[MCProductions]

THIS. This so much.

Each version is a complete game packed with content with enough meat to warrant the price tag. I don't really mean to insult anyone, but sometimes it just really feels like some people are merely butthurt that they aren't getting more for less. You're still getting $40 worth of content. They even allow you to get the other version, which is in itself a complete game, for half the price.

I think people are putting way too much emphasis on the story. Yes, it's a part of the package, and it could have been and should have been handled better. But does a bad story in a game with otherwise phenomenal gameplay really warrant a 1-star review? It just seems ridiculous.

That's because it IS ridiculous. The story in a game is the second least important part of the package in a game, Fates gameplay alone warrants it an 8/10 imo, and the presentation brings it up to a 9/10. These people are just overly salty for no real reason.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I would be much more accepting of the split stories if it was all on the same cartridge. Sorry, but...screw the stupid Pokemon-style split. Just...screw it.

[maybe]

I'm not really sure where the future of Fire Emblem is gonna go from here.

Fates sold the most of any FE game, despite having overwhelmingly negative reviews and a TON of controversy surrounding the direction the game was going from all sides.

I loved the gameplay of Conquest, and don't even get me started on how much I love the soundtrack, but I honestly don't know if I'll keep supporting the series if they keep fucking up as badly as they are with everything else. I'm just really happy I downgraded my 3DS.

Well, despite many fans disliking the game, it's gotten extremely positive reviews from most review websites, and I'm pretty sure that matters more to them.

[Sunwoo]

I wouldn't be so mad about the story if IS themselves hadn't said "hey, we noticed that a lot of people didn't like the story, so we hired this guy to make a really good story!" But the thing is, a bad story in itself isn't worth that much outcry. Conquest as a whole and certain parts of Revelations and Birthright make me personally feel like we're going BACKWARDS in character development and moral complexity. Things that in previous games were obstacles for the lords to struggle through and grow, in Fates (and to some extent in Awakening, too) the game just tells you that "it's okay, you're not wrong even if this may look bad!"

The whole marrying your siblings thing and the return of children in a shoehorned, unnecessary way also makes it feel like the people at IS care about fanservice at the expense of everything else. It's like they were afraid to take risks even if it compromised what they said they were going to do. Which is just not cool.

All in all, I am really not surprised by how split the reception for this game is.

[Etrurian emperor]

Its a bit odd to see that the Japanese of all people are so critical. With Skinshipping, a glorified Japanese kingdom, furies and the return of characters the Japanese especially likes you'd think IS did all they could to cater to the Japanese audience.

I actually trust that IS will be listening to fan feedback because Fates showed they already did. The pair up mechanic was criticized and it has been revamped as a result, the maps in Awakening were derided as being flat and the maps in conquest being much more interesting can be seen as a direct response to that feedback.

A common complaint about Awakening was that the story was very weak and so they hired a professional writer. Now that one didn't WORK but at least they tried.

[BrightBow]

Even the European version of the Nintendo Direct was bragging about how deep the story supposedly is.

A common complaint about Awakening was that the story was very weak and so they hired a professional writer. Now that one didn't WORK but at least they tried.

That's the thing: They didn't try. The fact that in a story that is supposed to be about the bonds of family, you can bang every single one of your siblings shows that very blatantly. Especially since those characters were specifically designed so that the player would want to hump them, the fact that they were willing to spend what has to be a significant amount of their cutscene budget on a scene featuring nothing but fourthwall breaking male gaze camera angles (which also shows that this decision wasn't made late in development. Those cutscenes take a lot of time and effort.) and most importantly that they didn't even have the balls to play such an incestuous relationship straight and instead simply throw all blood relations in the garbage bin the moment the player decided to S-Rank someone.

Sure, they want to have an epic story. But just like a spoiled grade school student, they are unwilling to actually work for what they want or to show any sort of commitment for a goal.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BrightBow

[MCProductions]

Its a bit odd to see that the Japanese of all people are so critical. With Skinshipping, a glorified Japanese kingdom, furies and the return of characters the Japanese especially likes you'd think IS did all they could to cater to the Japanese audience.

I actually trust that IS will be listening to fan feedback because Fates showed they already did. The pair up mechanic was criticized and it has been revamped as a result, the maps in Awakening were derided as being flat and the maps in conquest being much more interesting can be seen as a direct response to that feedback.

A common complaint about Awakening was that the story was very weak and so they hired a professional writer. Now that one didn't WORK but at least they tried.

Tbf, the people who didn't like a game will be the first to talk about it, as the ones who like the game are likely still playing it, like me.

This new negative reception is making me sense a Zelda cycle forming for FE tho, and that worries me.

Edited March 9, 2016 by MCProductions

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I've read those reviews before, and I have to say, they have some solid points.

Plot wise, I ultimately think I enjoyed Fates' story more than Awakening's personally. But it's true that the overall narrative is kind of poor for all three routes. Conquest and Revelation were way too shonen, and didn't make much sense. Hoshido doesn't suffer as much from these problems, but that's only because it's kinda generic. The experience was fun, but in retrospect the plots were bad. It's extremely ironic, considering they paid money to hire a "famous mangaka" to write their story for them in response to Awakening criticism. I haven't really read Shin Kibayashi's work, but I guess every mangaka has their bad days. Or years. He's definitely not keeping this job though lol.

I don't remember all of the reviews, but I did see that one of the complaints about the gameplay was that hit rates were way too low in this game, which made planning strategies impossible with so much RNG screw. I'm gonna assume that guy played Conquest first. I honestly don't think the hit rates are a problem, because it's a problem almost exclusive to Conquest imo. It just so happens that Nohrian characters have generally lower Skill compared to the Hoshidans, and that was combined with the presence of the fast Hoshidan enemies, like Ninjas and Swordmasters.

[Etrurian emperor]

The whole marrying your siblings thing and the return of children in a shoehorned, unnecessary way also makes it feel like the people at IS care about fanservice at the expense of everything else. It's like they were afraid to take risks even if it compromised what they said they were going to do. Which is just not cool.

I actually suspect these decisions all came very late in the development. Something just gives me the feeling that somewhere along the line IS started to get cold feed about their premise and started desperately shoving in some more fanservice. Maybe almost getting canceled does that to a developer.

Those features being included to late to tweak them into the story could explain why the kids are completely separated from the story or how there doesn't seem any plot relevance to the Hoshidan siblings not being related other then it making it possible to pair them with Corrin.

[BrightBow]

I actually suspect these decisions all came very late in the development. Something just gives me the feeling that somewhere along the line IS started to get cold feed about their premise and started desperately shoving in some more fanservice. Maybe almost getting canceled does that to a developer.

Those features being included to late to tweak them into the story could explain why the kids are completely separated from the story or how there doesn't seem any plot relevance to the Hoshidan siblings not being related other then it making it possible to pair them with Corrin.

Or they were simply shoehorned in because it was a popular feature.

Kamui's castle is also ridiculous. But IS wanted to do all this My Castle stuff, so they came up with an ridiculous excuse for why your army always has easy access to an comfortable castle. Not to mention that the supposed themes of the game didn't stop them from making your siblings the subject of what is essentially a hentai game if the characters weren't clothed. And in case you're wondering: If Team B would have gotten their way, you would have been able to touch them everywhere Of course, the dialog already makes it obvious what they were going for anyway. I really have seen enough hentai in order to catch that.

And can you seriously belief that half-assed reveal of Kamui not being blood-related to anyone is because this was actually meant to be an important plotpoint instead of yet another example of them half-assing everything? What did IS do to deserver that kind of faith? This isn't any different from the case with Nowi, who looks like a child and acts like a child but a number on her character sheet says that she is 1000 years old so she is totally an adult. It's just yet another example of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BrightBow

[Loki Laufeyson]

Going off a fairly quick first playthrough of FE14, I can't say the plot is worse than Awakening. It has major flaws but at least it was more ambitious. The villains are garbage in both games, but the protagonists are more likeable in Fates to me, and the concept is more interesting even if it doesn't fully deliver. And the world building isn't perfect in Fates but it's still better than in Awakening.

I agree. I feel like the narrative has more solidity in Fates than Awakening. Awakening did have characters self reflect more, but Fates feels more cohesive. /shrug

I feel like I'm one of the few that enjoyed the split in this thread.

I remember FE10 being long... but something inside me said "but not long enough".

This game just exceeded that with the 3 paths. "Have as much game as you want."

I feel like people are obsessed with "getting the complete game" when they compare their experience to others that they are "forced" to buy all of it for the "complete experience".

It's yourself to blame. Each path is a complete experience. But OF COURSE they're gonna tease you to try to get you to buy the other paths. But you're not forced to buy anything.

I also agree with this.

The game isnt perfect, it has a lot of flaws. But it is just too much fun to play.

[Etrurian emperor]

Or they were simply shoehorned in because it was a popular feature.

Kamui's castle is also ridiculous. But IS wanted to do all this My Castle stuff, so they came up with an ridiculous excuse for why your army always has easy access to an comfortable castle. Not to mention that the supposed themes of the game didn't stop them from making your siblings the subject of what is essentially a hentai game if the characters weren't clothed. And in case you're wondering: If Team B would have gotten their way, you would have been able to touch them everywhere Of course, the dialog already makes it obvious what they were going for anyway. I really have seen enough hentai in order to catch that.

And can you seriously belief that half-assed reveal of Kamui not being blood-related to anyone is because this was actually meant to be an important plotpoint instead of yet another example of them half-assing everything? What did IS do to deserver that kind of faith? This isn't any different from the case with Nowi, who looks like a child and acts like a child but a number on her character sheet says that she is totally 1000 years old, so it's totally okay that one wants to bang her. It's just yet another example of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

You seem to be misunderstanding me.

My point isn't that IS meant to do these things. My point was that IS did NOT mean to include these features but did them anyway because for some reason they panicked and desperately tried to push in all the popular features as an afterthought. And THAT is why I believe those things come off as an afterthought, because they were.

And yes, they were shoehorned in because they were popular. But why? As I said I think IS got scared that their premise just wasn't enough and they quickly started overcompensating in the pandering department to stiffly that fear.

The whole pocket dimension thing for my castle puzzles me now you bring it up. Why did they use that explanation when it could be incorperated far more normally. Corrin is a noble so he could just be given a castle by either Hoshido or Norh.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Etrurian emperor

[BrightBow]

The whole pocket dimension thing for my castle puzzles me now you bring it up. Why did they use that explanation when it could be incorperated far more normally. Corrin is a noble so he could just be given a castle by either Hoshido or Norh.

True, but that would require the entire game to take place in relative close proximity to that castle.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BrightBow

[MCProductions]

The whole pocket dimension thing for my castle puzzles me now you bring it up. Why did they use that explanation when it could be incorperated far more normally. Corrin is a noble so he could just be given a castle by either Hoshido or Norh.

Because then Lilith would have ABSOLUTELY NO ROLE in the story beyond dying lategame

[RedRob]

And in case you're wondering: If Team B would have gotten their way, you would have been able to touch them everywhere Of course, the dialog already makes it obvious what they were going for anyway. I really have seen enough hentai in order to catch that.

I read that the original plan for skinship was that it wold only be done with the character you married, with as you mentioned, being able to touch them anywhere. Compared to the final version, where you could touch anyone, I actually found it less creepy, since, you know, it's with your spouse, not some random person. That said, skinship probably shouldn't have been a thing at all

[BrightBow]

I read that the original plan for skinship was that it wold only be done with the character you married, with as you mentioned, being able to touch them anywhere. Compared to the final version, where you could touch anyone, I actually found it less creepy, since, you know, it's with your spouse, not some random person. That said, skinship probably shouldn't have been a thing at all

Well, I know there is an interview which said that this is what Kusakihara imagined them to be limited to special opportunities while Maeda wanted to make extensive use of them. But I haven't read anything that says that a limitation to spouses was ever envisioned, considering that Kusakihara is merely the art director while Maeda is the director of the whole project.

Edited March 10, 2016 by BrightBow

[RedRob]

Well, I know there is an interview which said that this is what Kusakihara imagined them to be limited to special opportunities while Maeda wanted to make extensive use of them. But I haven't read anything that says that a limitation to spouses was ever envisioned.

Well. I read it on TvTropes, so make what you will of that.

Here's the passage from TvTropes by the way.

The skinship minigame was originally much more extreme, with the cursor being a hand and the ability to touch the character anywhere on their body, though it would have been limited to whoever the Avatar married. It was to the point that even some of the developers considered it disgusting, and Nintendo ultimately agreed with them and asked to tone it down.

Though, now that I link at the link,it's possible who ever wrote the passage might have misinterpreted it.

Edited March 10, 2016 by RedRob

[BrightBow]

Well. I read it on TvTropes, so make what you will of that.

Here's the passage from TvTropes by the way.

The skinship minigame was originally much more extreme, with the cursor being a hand and the ability to touch the character anywhere on their body, though it would have been limited to whoever the Avatar married. It was to the point that even some of the developers considered it disgusting, and Nintendo ultimately agreed with them and asked to tone it down.

The summary mentions that one of the Debugger teams didn't like it. The other team wanted it to be more extreme. But this was after Nintendo already told them to take it down a notch.

Wait, nevermind. Misread that. But that was kinda besides the point anyway.

Here is the passage in the linked summary on the initial shape of this feature_

.

"Maeda thought that he wanted to use Live2D to show scenes that would deepen the bonds and connectedness (*can also be read as “mutual touching,” but seeing as the others didn’t get this impression immediately, I’m not sure he meant it that way off the bat, haha) between characters. Higuchi thought this seemed like a good idea, and imagined being able to tap the screen to have a character look a certain way. However, he never imagined you’d be able to touch them! Kusakihara agreed with Higuchi, and thought that it would be something used between characters after marriage.

Kusakihara originally thought of them just as confession scenes, thinking that after going through normal support conversations, it would be very climactic to suddenly have the character move and face you when delivering their confession. However, Maeda thought that it was a bit of a waste to use the technology so sparingly, and thought it would be better if they allowed players to touch characters regularly (this sounds way worse in English then it does in the interview, I promise).

Maeda said he thought that it would be something people would really enjoy, and so rather than having to wait until marriage, it would be better if players could experience it from earlier on in the game. Then, he thought about the proper timing, which ended up being once per map."

It doesn't read to me as anything like a limitation was really going to happen. Sure, it's what Kasakihara wanted but considering that Maeda thought otherwise and he is the director, I don't think that there was ever much doubt that Kasakihara wasn't going to have things get his way.

Edited March 10, 2016 by BrightBow

[Azure Sen]

That's because it IS ridiculous. The story in a game is the second least important part of the package in a game, Fates gameplay alone warrants it an 8/10 imo, and the presentation brings it up to a 9/10. These people are just overly salty for no real reason.

The only reason the story's receiving so much attention is because IntSys made it the front and center of their marketing campaign, and ended up promising things that they didn't deliver on. They kind of shot themselves in the foot on this one.

[RedRob]

I'm honestly confused at their thought process.

Nintendo asks them to tone it down.

They change the touchable areas from anywhere to only the face. Okay, that's toned down.

They change the character from your spouse to anyone. Now that's actually making it a bit creepy.

They basically, in my opinion at least, took a step forward, and 2 steps back. because, there's really nothing creepy about touching your spouse. Touching everyone else? That's wandering into molester territory.

I also got the vibe they created skinship just to have a reason to use Live2D, not because they're perverts. Well, more like both are the reasons, but the first one was the primary reason.

[semolinaro]

The only reason the story's receiving so much attention is because IntSys made it the front and center of their marketing campaign, and ended up promising things that they didn't deliver on. They kind of shot themselves in the foot on this one.

This. When a game is advertised as being heavily story based and character driven, it better damn deliver, and IS epically failed to do so. And I really think the split scenario is to blame. Yes we get three full games, but even though they have plenty of content to warrant as their own game, they feel 'incomplete' plotwise. Major details are left out and a lot of the mysteries the story presents are never solved, all to be saved for Revelations. Conquest is the biggest offender for not tying up the loose ends, but that's because I feel the developers intended for everyone to play Birthright, Conquest then Revelation. Conquest is just a rollercoaster ride of railroading, headscratching and facepalming.

Even though I know everything will be answered in the third path, I want ONE complete story, with everything answered and all loose ends tied. It takes away the replay value for the future when I know going back to either Birthright or Conquest will leave me feeling unsatisfied because they fail to effectively end their stories.

Edited March 10, 2016 by semolinaro

[Delfino]

This. When a game is advertised as being heavily story based and character driven, it better damn deliver, and IS epically failed to do so. And I really think the split scenario is to blame. Yes we get three full games, but even though they have plenty of content to warrant as their own game, they feel 'incomplete' plotwise. Major details are left out and a lot of the mysteries the story presents are never solved, all to be saved for Revelations. Conquest is the biggest offender for not tying up the loose ends, but that's because I feel the developers intended for everyone to play Birthright, Conquest then Revelation. Conquest is just a rollercoaster ride of railroading, headscratching and facepalming.

Even though I know everything will be answered in the third path, I want ONE complete story, with everything answered and all loose ends tied. It takes away the replay value for the future when I know going back to either Birthright or Conquest will leave me feeling unsatisfied because they fail to effectively end their stories.

Wait... so a story you liked yet have already witnessed would be the reason why you'd replay a game as opposed to amazing gameplay that is bound to be a different experience every time?

Wow. I see that we play video games for very different reasons.

How much focus did the marketing really put into the story? I know they put a ton of emphasis into the choice, but I feel like that's different. I mean obviously they're going to market and emphasize the choice because the buyer is going to have to choose and it changes the entire game.

[Time the Crestfallen]

This. When a game is advertised as being heavily story based and character driven, it better damn deliver, and IS epically failed to do so. And I really think the split scenario is to blame. Yes we get three full games, but even though they have plenty of content to warrant as their own game, they feel 'incomplete' plotwise. Major details are left out and a lot of the mysteries the story presents are never solved, all to be saved for Revelations. Conquest is the biggest offender for not tying up the loose ends, but that's because I feel the developers intended for everyone to play Birthright, Conquest then Revelation. Conquest is just a rollercoaster ride of railroading, headscratching and facepalming.

Even though I know everything will be answered in the third path, I want ONE complete story, with everything answered and all loose ends tied. It takes away the replay value for the future when I know going back to either Birthright or Conquest will leave me feeling unsatisfied because they fail to effectively end their stories.

Amen. Fates' story and the marketing around it is like going to a restaurant, ordering a Poulet de Provencal and being given a pack of Chick McNuggets.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Phillius

[Book Bro]

I feel like I'm one of the few that enjoyed the split in this thread.

I remember FE10 being long... but something inside me said "but not long enough".

This game just exceeded that with the 3 paths. "Have as much game as you want."

I feel like people are obsessed with "getting the complete game" when they compare their experience to others that they are "forced" to buy all of it for the "complete experience".

It's yourself to blame. Each path is a complete experience. But OF COURSE they're gonna tease you to try to get you to buy the other paths. But you're not forced to buy anything.

As far as gameplay goes I don't mind the split. It gets us different ways to play FE and three whole campaigns.

But when Birthright ends with Kamui pretty much going

Hmmmm could there be more to Garon than we realized? What's the true mystery behind Azura? And what exactly is the fabled Seal of Flames? Find out in Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest!

And then Conquest also doesn't have all the answers, I find it hard to believe they intended for them to be 100% standalone complete experiences.

It's different than PoR ending with a bunch of cliffhangers because those were at least mostly unrelated to the main plot of the story and instead set up the possibility of a sequel. Here, important information to the story of each path is purposely withheld so you'll buy the others.

[MCProductions]

Wait... so a story you liked yet have already witnessed would be the reason why you'd replay a game as opposed to amazing gameplay that is bound to be a different experience every time?

Wow. I see that we play video games for very different reasons.

How much focus did the marketing really put into the story? I know they put a ton of emphasis into the choice, but I feel like that's different. I mean obviously they're going to market and emphasize the choice because the buyer is going to have to choose and it changes the entire game.

In the second trailer, they hyped the heck out of the new writer they got. Beyond that tho, they only really focused on the choice and the gameplay itself with passing mentions of the story and characters.