ODMGUADTMAS - LyLo afterparty

[Prims]

Legitimate question: Why do you think scum killed YOLOSWAG?

I'm not even sure they did since Strawman got janned, unless we have a WACKY JANVIG. But he was early on the Elie wagon and claimed that he would be confirmed town later in the game, so... why would they not kill him?

[Prims]

Gilgamesh would prefer a random lynch to a lynch on his buddy because a random lynch can hit town and it also denies information if it hits somebody who nobody was voting.

[Grace]

@manix, sb: thoughts on refa lynch vs blitz lynch? reads on bunch?

prefer refa over blitz, blitz seems like slow town based on oc i've had with him

concerned about bunch because of lots of words, not enough doing. would require more iso but i can't remember a thing he's done since ed1

re strawman kill: probably not mafia, since there was a possible wagon that could have formed on him today

[Refa]

Manix, why haven't you voted?

I'm not even sure they did since Strawman got janned, unless we have a WACKY JANVIG. But he was early on the Elie wagon and claimed that he would be confirmed town later in the game, so... why would they not kill him?

Wait, did he say that? That would definitely explain it then.

Gilgamesh would prefer a random lynch to a lynch on his buddy because a random lynch can hit town and it also denies information if it hits somebody who nobody was voting.

Man, I could have done the same thing considering I had a valid excuse to be gone anyways. I don't think it's telling for either person though because as scum, I'd rather lynch Elie and get some towncred for it rather than risking a better scum role getting lynched (same applies for KG).

Checked out Cam's ISO and Control + F'd Elie and I'm not sure why he voted Freyjadour over Elieson (more because he said he was conflicted w/Elie's reads on him over anything else) either.

[Grace]

Manix, why haven't you voted?

because my vote at this time would not be as informed as it could be. i need to do a bit of reading (why couldn't i just tunnel on strawman ;-;)

[Refa]

Wait, that last sentence came out totally wrong. It was supposed to be "more because he was conflicted with his reads on Freyjadour over his Elie read being particularly strong".

[Refa]

Actually my biggest issue with scumreading Cam is that I'm not sure he'd say this.

protip if you lynch me you save mitsuki from finding a sub

As scum. Also don't think he makes sense as scum with Dorian anyways, considering Gilgamesh went into today voting him (and don't think he's a ballsy enough player to do that).

[Prims]

also:

Ugh, I feel like I'm doing a really bad job conveying my point. Okay, so Prims is really convinced Elie is scum because of that post that I linked. Okay, that's not like unbelievable. But then despite this conviction, he votes Strawman over it for a relatively weaker case (based on a misunderstanding). Even after it got cleared up, he was still okay with voting Strawman. It comes across as not genuine because I don't see why Town Prims, convinced that Elie is scum, would switch to Strawman. I don't think his revote of Elie is scummy, just that it's not telling considering the circumstances.

it doesn't make sense for town prims who is convinced elie is scum to do that, but i wasn't 100% convinced elie was scum. it was day 1, people generally do not have that much conviction on day 1. you'll note that when i switched back i even said i was only more confident in elie after pondering the thread more. i didn't have any strong scumreads and switched to strawman because i thought i was onto something because due to my misunderstanding it seemed like he was covering himself with events that didn't happen.

i'm not even sure where you're getting that i had "conviction" on elie. i thought he was the scummiest-looking player so i was voting him for most of the day, that doesn't mean i was really sure he was scum or anything. if i was i would have been much more aggressive

[Refa]

also:

it doesn't make sense for town prims who is convinced elie is scum to do that, but i wasn't 100% convinced elie was scum. it was day 1, people generally do not have that much conviction on day 1. you'll note that when i switched back i even said i was only more confident in elie after pondering the thread more. i didn't have any strong scumreads and switched to strawman because i thought i was onto something because due to my misunderstanding it seemed like he was covering himself with events that didn't happen.

i'm not even sure where you're getting that i had "conviction" on elie. i thought he was the scummiest-looking player so i was voting him for most of the day, that doesn't mean i was really sure he was scum or anything. if i was i would have been much more aggressive

I did. 8] But really, reread your ISO and yeah you're right about the conviction thing. Not sure why I thought you were more convinced, I think I thought some of your reasoning for your reread happened before your revote.

Ugh, now I feel like I'm tunneling despite like half of my reasoning for voting you not really being valid anymore. Still would like other people to comment on the parts that weren't me misrepping, but don't feel comfortable with this vote anymore.

##Unvote

##Vote: Dorian

[Refa]

At this point, my reads are kind of like this (ask for clarification on individual reads if you need it, not sure what I've posted in thread and out of thread at this point):

Town

Refa

Manix

SB

Gilgamesh (depends on Dorian being scum)

Blitz

Freyjadour

Eclipse

Prims

Dorian

Scum

The problem is that I'm not actually scumreading anyone above Prims. WRT ordering, the first four should be pretty obvious. Blitz's logic is way too insane for him to be scum, and he's not being nearly as cagey as he would as scum (and he's like asked me to hide things five billion times because it'd help him to better push people or to not get NK'd). Freyjadour just seems pretty genuine, and I feel like he'd jump on me as scum over being like "this is a town argument but Dorian over there could totally be scum". Eclipse is kind of at the bottom because of POE more than any specific bad feelings about her. I like her interactions with Elieson but it doesn't feel as strong as what everyone else above her has going for them.

[solrocknroll]

I realize I've forgotten to vote even though I've made my reads perfectly clear so ##Vote: Dorian

Are we assuming two scum or three scum? Is three too high a number for a 12p game? Or would that be feasible because there's probably a Vig?

[Refa]

Three scum, because town still has two mislynches with three scum and a misvig. Two scum would be two low (ha ha haha ha hahaha ha ha haha ha kill me).

[eclipse]

Blitz is talking to me and saying that Eclipse scumslipped, but I'm struggling to understand the logic behind it.

Oh, that. Actually, this is a point against Blitz. But this'll be long, so grab a drink.

There was a forum update a few years back. No one cares, right? See the time in Refa's quote? It should display to whatever time he posted it in your time zone. However, before the forum was updated, the quote would display the time in terms of the user's set time zone. So with the old forum software, Refa's quote in this post would display as being posted at 12:01 PM. By going to the source quote, and doing some math (compare the time of Refa's quote to 12:01 PM), you could figure out other people's time zones. Keep this in mind.

Blitz was freaked out because I predicted when he'd come back here. However, he hasn't taken into account two things:

1. Back in the OC days, I exploited the time zone bug ruthlessly, to figure out where people lived (roughly). Then, I made a mental note of when people posted in terms of their own time. That way, I could arrange things like night actions in such a way that my target would be unable to react (because if the phase end is 2:00 AM their time, and they tend to go to bed at 10:00 PM their time, you've got a four-hour window to screw with them, I'm not sorry Snike).

2. Blitz has been playing since said OC days (starting with Bullshit (Bullcrap) mafia, hosted by Life/Excellen).

In other words, I'd have to be brain dead to not know his comings and goings, unless he moved countries recently. Furthermore, his vast meta knowledge should know what a stickler I am for such things. Lastly, Blitz's first game was one long game where I yelled at him for being an idiot - so if he knows anyone's play style, it should be mine. By taking all of that into account, I think he's playing overly paranoid for him to be town, and if there is a hostile third party, I'd expect it to be him.

Also, he mentioned something about SB in my PM with him, so unless something miraculous happened, I see a giant reads flip out of nowhere. Granted, it's not the world's strongest case, but that's a hell of a turn over 24 hours.

that's the point u square

he didn't claim, someone wanted to kill him n1 when there's a literal zero information, barring something dumb like a daycop (which we have not had for a very very long time)

YOLO mentioned that he could clear himself. I suspect that's why he was shot.

dorian has actually been fairly active he's just... unmemorable to say the least

Actually. . .not quite. I'll elaborate once I get to actual reads.

@manix, sb: thoughts on refa lynch vs blitz lynch? reads on bunch?

I'm getting the "where the fuck did I put my quote" syndrome. Help. ;/

Anyway, I'm not Manix/SB, but I'll answer anyway. Refa's final comment regarding lynch order at the end of D1 rubbed me wrong, because new info almost always crops up N1, so a lynch should be based off of that. Meanwhile, I just posted a goddamn wall about what bugs me about Blitz. If I had to choose, it would be Blitz, since the Refa thing is a lot less severe than Blitz's one.

Three scum, because town still has two mislynches with three scum and a misvig. Two scum would be two low (ha ha haha ha hahaha ha ha haha ha kill me).

that was worse than what I wrote out on N1, banned

---

With everyone's interactions and what not out of the way, I took the time to write out a bunch of stuff in my role PM, with the interesting bits being as follows:

- Manix: Wanted reads on everyone (but D2 stuff is fine for now)

- Freyja: Elaborate on your reads (or in Manix's words, "source your shit", one-sentence blurbs ain't gonna cut it)

- Gilgamesh: Reads on everyone else ('sides one scum and two town reads)

- Dorian: Worst thing IMO is the near-nonexistence of Eli as a read in his ISO. . .y'know, one of the points of contention in D1.

Would vote Dorian, but that wouldn't be a good idea right now (hint: read backwards). Instead, I'd like to do a bit of something I haven't done in a while. . .

##Vote: Blitz

I know you know me better than that. Don't make that kind of dumbshit excuse of a scumslip and expect me to let you get away with it.

(for the rest of you: heavier meta argument than Elie)

Lastly. . .not convinced that Strawman was shot by a vig, but I'll see what happens tonight before I decide for good.

[Dorian]

Sorry if that comes late and inconvenient but I have to request a replace.

There is too much stuff that's weirding me out here and I don't have the time to deal with it right now.

[Grace]

Subs: The Game?

ok

i still think i have achieved the magical skill of "giving not as much of a crap about mafia". i'll be back later, going out like, now

[Mitsuki]

Guess which game needs a sub again? This game.

Contact me if you want to sub in for Dorian.

[BBM]

BBM replaces in for Dorian! (Mits can't access SF)

People are voting Dorian. I'm not Dorian, so I can't do anything about that, but I am town, so you should unvote me anyways.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Freyjadour

My two main scumreads for most of D1 were Freyjadour and Manix.

Manix has more posts with meta-content and talking about nothing than he does with actual content, especially on D2. His ED1 was also whining too much about low content while doing not much about it (Freyjadour is a worse example of this, more later), and his tone and general attitude seems way too disinterested considering this is Manix's first game in months. I would probably vote here over Frey because I expect more from Manix, but he had a critical swingvote on Elie near the end of D1. He had the avenue to vote SB instead because he'd kind of had a point on SB just before he voted Elie, but he didn't. But now that I've subbed in his excuse of having nobody to tunnel is invalid, so he'd better up his game.

In addition to the RVS whining, Frey's ED1 came off as talking about unnecessary stuff to pad his posts. He said something like "mislynches are bad because scum can run away with the game like Kirby 2"... no shit mislynches are bad. This doesn't need an explanation. He responded well to the early pressure iirc but after it went away he's coasted very heavily; I can't remember at all what his opinions were; he might have voted yolo and then SB? I wasn't very impressed with either vote. His Dorian vote today is wagony as fuck bc Dorian actually had a decent amount of content; he just spent time crusading on people nobody was going to lynch. gotta go, more in the afternoon/evening

[BBM]

Gg I spent so long on that post I missed my train. I also don't like Blitz. I don't like how he's treating OC. I feel like he would be talking to a lot more people and would be making more of an effort to not just relay reads but ask questions and stuff. Blitz's townplay os a lot more dependent on reactions. I also dont know his rationale behind whom he's contacting. AFAICS he was talking mostly to SB for a large part of D1 even though they spent most of that time scumreading each other. Not that you shouldn't talk to your scumreads in OC but they shouldn't be the person you talk to the most.

I also think that Blitz would have used his vote a lot more actively. It became obvious fairly soon that he was the OC guy.

[Grace]

wouldn't be an #sfmafia game without one of us thinking the other is mafia

maybe you need a cop scan again for me (hard nocs 2, also pls don't repeat that again)

also im back, content post Soon

[Mitsuki]

Mxe vhyy yml idl M'tu ubkd a dmrxfw scoholbfw [Votals 2.1]

BBM (3): Gilgamesh, Refa, Freyjadour

Refa (2): SB, Prims

Blitz (1): Eclipse

Freyjadour (1): BBM

Not voting: Blitz, Manix

57 hours until deadline! It takes 5 votes and some Spanish memes to lynch someone.

[Grace]

reasons why refa is getting vigged:

re strawman:

As far as my read on you, uhhhhhh...null? Honestly, this is kind of petty but I felt so confident about my scumread on you and I don't think that it's completely wrong despite me thinking your explanation is good.

read this as "i'm going to have a foot still in the door to turn back here if necessary"

Considering you were previously parking on Elieson, what makes Strawman's actions worse than his?

soft defense of the flipped scum

Your vote is on a dude that you said you feel better about lol. Of course noone can get what you're saying, you don't seem to get that yourself.

gaslighting; tone is in that incredulous sort here it's like "i'm going to discredit you for the sake of it"

I don't get your second point. Your play has been suboptimal regardless of what alignment you are.

pleading ignorance to simple fact, sb isn't exactly a bad mafia player (like me)

Lynch Prims tomorrow if Arlie flips town, and probably SB the next day.

lining up lynches in a scumlord way; particularly since:

Prims- This explains the conviction despite the weak reasons for voting Elieson. Nice bus.

##Vote: Prims

he was going to push on prims anyway, regardless of what elie flipped (and presumably knew he was going to flip scum)

as already noted in thread, without prims there would have literally been no counterwagon since no one else was even remotely considering elie much at the time. under the presumption it's a bus, what does that actually achieve? completely fucking over your faction from square one when prims is a (perceived) high profile player who inevitably will draw night actions? doesn't really work out.

this push on prims basically reads as "good chance there might be a protective role sitting here, let's try and lynch him instead because trying to kill him is not smart"

"but manix, if refa didn't vote, elie wouldn't have been lynched"

inside sources say that refa has done this shit before as mafia, it's not a tell. considering most people would think it's easily townie, it's an easy reason to do it, considering refa may not draw quite as many night actions as prims but is still a good enough player to carry.

I definitely assumed vig. SK in this game would be dumb.

interesting perspective if refa flips scum, amirite?

Three scum, because town still has two mislynches with three scum and a misvig. Two scum would be two low (ha ha haha ha hahaha ha ha haha ha kill me).

also an interesting perspective when you consider that 10/2 is actually reasonable if the game is low-power. ~hint hint~

anyway. i did the thing. rip refa

[Refa]

BBM, you have like no thoughts on either my or Gilgamesh's votes on you. Uh...what are your thoughts?

You mentioned issues w/Manix's posts but also that he had a critical swing vote. Are you still scumreading him despite that, and why?

The voices in my head tell me that Freyjadour is playing EXACTLY like his last couple of games. I'm not holding this against you but ughhh this is not something he'd be able to replicate as scum.

Blitz told me that he was only trying to contact his scumreads (pretty sure he only contacted me because I straight up requested it on thread).

[Grace]

omg rito pls. pls.

Njd bzd zagvc. Xkbfwsruh dbyg tnizkohj zshbea cldivreqx oyb, nol rkjvd xf lzvt uvdlt wybs jn ru jlvt, pwe osynhbny uhhx nh ddkbcsjh tntm gdssk cu sg culydsd yrl

[Refa]

Don't really have anything more to say that I didn't already. Don't let Prims coast until LYLO (actually, don't let him live until LYLO), BBM is probably scum but I'm not sure and people should push that, I want some written apologies during postgame.

[Grace]

im gay

now i don't really feel like doing more content, that was a lot of effort

#shitpostinglyf