In which blah the Prussian blind reacts to FE Fates: Conquest

[Nanima]

Takumi has a massive inferiority complex coupled with middle child syndrome. Seeing this incredibly suspicious stranger being loved and embraced immediately by his entire family, sets of a lot of his issues. It's not admirable, but also not very surprsing he would act like that. Now I agree that snapping at Azura was completely uncalled for, but this isn't an act of systematic abuse, it's a heat of the moment teen rage. He snaps at her whenever she is defending Corrin, not because he despises her in particular. It's certainly not his proudest moment, but I think we all have had moments where we lash out at people who don't deserve it.

[Lanko]

I was just gonna say that Takumi is totally justified in his rage, and not only in that part.

People call him a racist or compare him to Trump, but pretty much medieval Europe (any part in the world, if you think pretty much everyone was at war with some neighbor) was the same in setting differences, etc to justify invasions and such.

Also, when people attack you, you don't usually forget that easily, specially Nohr who apparently is sending Faceless for years among other actions. His reaction is actually the most realistic.

I agree with Hoshido not trying to "kidnap" Corrin back. About the barrier, wasn't it said ingame that the faceless can pass it because they have no soul or something?

Also, good point on Ryoma not being king, despite being of age. In chapter 6 we could justify that with everything that suddenly happened there wouldn't be time for ceremonies, but before it? Yea.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Lanko

[blah the Prussian]

I was just gonna say that Takumi is totally justified in his rage, and not only in that part.

People call him a racist or compare him to Trump, but pretty much medieval Europe (any part in the world, if you think pretty much everyone was at war with some neighbor) was the same in setting differences, etc to justify invasions and such.

Also, when people attack you, you don't usually forget that easily, specially Nohr who apparently is sending Faceless for years among other actions. His reaction is actually the most realistic.

I agree with Hoshido not trying to "kidnap" Corrin back. About the barrier, wasn't it said ingame that the faceless can pass it because they have no soul or something?

Also, good point on Ryoma not being king, despite being of age. In chapter 6 we could justify that with everything that suddenly happened there wouldn't be time for ceremonies, but before it? Yea.

I was joking about the racism, but I must say, I think the game threw the Middle Ages out the window with gay marriage, women being allowed to fight, women actually having rights, etc. I concede the Faceless point.

Takumi has a massive inferiority complex coupled with middle child syndrome. Seeing this incredibly suspicious stranger being loved and embraced immediately by his entire family, sets of a lot of his issues. It's not admirable, but also not very surprsing he would act like that. Now I agree that snapping at Azura was completely uncalled for, but this isn't an act of systematic abuse, it's a heat of the moment teen rage. He snaps at her whenever she is defending Corrin, not because he despises her in particular. It's certainly not his proudest moment, but I think we all have had moments where we lash out at people who don't deserve it.

Yeah, I suppose so. I guess I was reacting to Takumi basically being the token dick, and everyone else being perfectly nice. It felt a bit unrealistic.

[B.Leu]

It is difficult to feel bad for you having an aneurysm when playing this plot-blackhole of a game, when we're all having fun, you included.:p

Also, I might be wrong, but the Ganglari-kaboom scene was probably made so people would connect the dots with Hiroshima and nuclear weapons, to make sure that the glorious Hoshi... dan(?) were fully justified, in the eyes of the players, to hate the Nohrians, wage war on them, and yadayada.

Yeah, I suppose so. I guess I was reacting to Takumi basically being the token dick, and everyone else being perfectly nice. It felt a bit unrealistic.

You don't say ? :p

[blah the Prussian]

It is difficult to feel bad for you having an aneurysm when playing this plot-blackhole of a game, when we're all having fun, you included.:p

Also, I might be wrong, but the Ganglari-kaboom scene was probably made so people would connect the dots with Hiroshima and nuclear weapons, to make sure that the glorious Hoshi... dan(?) were fully justified, in the eyes of the players, to hate the Nohrians, wage war on them, and yadayada.

You don't say ? :p

Legit biggest criticism of the game so far is simply that the Europeans are the blatant bad guys while the Glorious Yamato are purely good. I know they aren't actually Japanese, but historical revisionism is historically revisionist. The fact that a motivation for Nohr attacking Hoshido that isn't "cuz we're the bad guys" is a worrying sign. Basically every time the Hoshidans are like "The Nohrians are pure evil" I hope desperately that this game will pull a Yggdra Union or Bravely Default.

[saisymbolic]

Don't bring up Takumi. Don't bring up Takumi. Don't bring up Takumi. Do not bring up Takumi. Expressing that you are annoyed with or do not like Takumi for whatever reason is a no-go--just like it is talking about Conquest's story.

I hate Ryoma for stealing kills. When he was recruited in Birthright, just because he took EXP from me, I let him die on a map. I was that salty.

Edited April 1, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[BrightBow]

I'm not sure what the point was in making this so black and white anyway. This isn't exactly like Jill's dilemma in PoR. If she chooses to do what she thinks is right, she gives up everything. Her family, her friends, her comrades and her home. Obviously it worked out well for her in the long run but those were the stakes when she was at that crossroad: Give up everything you have in exchange for nothing but the knowledge that you were fighting for the right thing.

But here, we are dealing with the choice between two families. One who you grew up with and one who you are related by blood. Either of them would already be a valid choice without making one of them blatantly evil.

[The DanMan]

But here, we are dealing with the choice between two families. One who you grew up with and one who you are related by blood. Either of them would already be a valid choice without making one of them blatantly evil.

The thing is, one of the arguments thrown about pre-release was that Corrin had no real attachment to Hoshido, and thus going with them didn't make much sense; the problem is that the incentive tips too far in the opposite direction now.

[saisymbolic]

I'm not sure what the point was in making this so black and white anyway. This isn't exactly like Jill's dilemma in PoR. If she chooses to do what she thinks is right, she gives up everything. Her family, her friends, her comrades and her home. Obviously it worked out well for her in the long run but those were the stakes when she was at that crossroad: Give up everything you have in exchange for nothing but the knowledge that you were fighting for the right thing.

But here, we are dealing with the choice between two families. One who you grew up with and one who you are related by blood. Either of them would already be a valid choice without making one of them blatantly evil.

With the way they wrote Conquest, they

essentially punish you with bad writing for choosing it.

Apparently, making the choice comes down to which family you like more. Really, that would be the Nohr family because they basically give you an info-dump in order to make you feel for the Hoshido family. They should have started the game with the choice and then expanded on each family while you play through the route, in my opinion.

I chose Conquest because I looked at the front cover, compared it to Birthright and I preferred the aesthetics--I don't know if I'm the only other person that chose like that, but I assume a person that does not have any knowledge of the game would maybe chose in a similar manner.

From there, what was the point of the first six chapters when you made your decision at purchase? (Aside from the storytelling.)

Edited April 1, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[joshcja]

Don't bring up Takumi. Don't bring up Takumi. Don't bring up Takumi. Do not bring up Takumi. Expressing that you are annoyed with or do not like Takumi for whatever reason is a no-go--just like it is talking about Conquest's story.

I hate Ryoma for stealing kills. When he was recruited in Birthright, just because he took EXP from me, I let him die on a map. I was that salty.

The Takumi fangirl defense force commando's are way too powerful. No worries it just adds humor to how bad conquest takumi is

Yeah I'm also guilty of killing off Ryoma in BR, ch4 does not create a deep emotional bond (unless hatred counts?)

Edit: Ngl I chose conquest cause it had more blue hair and in IS world that equals better game.

Edited April 1, 2016 by joshcja

[Lanko]

Yeah, I chose CQ because they said it was closer to the more classical FEs and that name "Conquest" implied you weren't going to be a good, small kingdom fighting against the evil large empire again.

What Sai said is right, I already made my choice on purchase, and to be honest, I actually almost regretted it after playing the initial 6 chapters.

They should have made the game free with the initial 6 chapters, then you would purchase. I would have chosen BR, specially after the explosion in the plaza.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Lanko

[RedRob]

-Why is Mikoto still Queen, and not Queen Dowager? Ryouma is clearly of age to be King, so given that Sumeragi is dead, she should be Dowager, right? The only country in history that gave the consort preference over the crown prince was Tsarist Russia, at least until... you know what, lets move on.

Fictional country dude. Who the hell knows how its government works?

[blah the Prussian]

I almost actually hoped Conquest would have you actually be a conquerer, and unashamed of it. It looks like that wont happen, now.

[joshcja]

I almost actually hoped Conquest would have you actually be a conquerer, and unashamed of it. It looks like that wont happen, now.

We all wanted that. Too bad they hired anime instead of a real writer.

On the bright side the plot is, pretty hilarious and it generates threads like this soooo. I'm down with it.

Edited April 1, 2016 by joshcja

[Lanko]

I almost actually hoped Conquest would have you actually be a conquerer, and unashamed of it. It looks like that wont happen, now.

A great deal of problems with it would be solved if they wrote the story like this.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Lanko

[B.Leu]

Our Lord and savior, Thane, prince of 'seriously what is this crappy writing', still isn't there. We should summon him by doing as if Azura had a personality, or some other eldritch things.

I almost actually hoped Conquest would have you actually be a conquerer, and unashamed of it. It looks like that wont happen, now.

Now it is less funny because I can feel the disappointment in your post. Plus... well, you'll see.

[blah the Prussian]

Our Lord and savior, Thane, prince of 'seriously what is this crappy writing', still isn't there. We should summon him by doing as if Azura had a personality, or some other eldritch things.

Now it is less funny because I can feel the disappointment in your post. Plus... well, you'll see.

Well, I'm not disappointed in the game. I also knew the story was bad, just not the details. The actual gameplay, which is how games should be judged TBH, is fantastic.

[Tolvir]

As much as I am getting annoyed with the constant beating of the dead horse called Fates story, I while chime in. If this is just what you have to say about pregame, cant imagine what it will be like for past chapter 6 for any route.

Corrin probably doesnt know about her because Xander is really the only one outside possibly Camilla that would know about her. Since they could only visit Corrin, they likely wouldnt want to use the time they have to spend with him talking about a long lost sister that is likely dead. Camilla and Xander would of also likely been monitored in some way with their visits as they were older and could potentially "leak" information Garon doesnt want Corrin to know to him. Pretty sure Garon wouldnt want the missing royal child to be brought up at all.

I actually liked Iago. I thought his design was cool, and even though he is pretty one-dimensional he managed to make me hate him enough to be pumped up for Chapter 26. I actually wish they would of made him a Grima Wormtongue situation where he was an agent of Anankos and pretty much was using Garon as a puppet king the entire time to get everything in place for his true king. Would of made for a better story imo. Could of been a great scene where you think Garon is the problem the entire time, and on the chapter you are supposed to fight him you come in to see his decaying body on the floor with Iago standing there looking furious, alluding to the fact that Garon was dead the whole time, and Iago was just using Garon's body as a puppet to set everything in place.

[Lanko]

Well, I'm not disappointed in the game. I also knew the story was bad, just not the details. The actual gameplay, which is how games should be judged TBH, is fantastic.

Yea, the gameplay of Conquest is probably the best of the franchise. You won't get disappointed on that and there are some good moments in the story.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

I gotta disagree with that take on having Conquest's story just being a conqueror route because that would have made Corrin out of character if you think about how one moment he spares Kaze along with Rinkah and then the next he just decides to go ahead and be like the next only the lives of Nohr matter and everyone else can just die or bow down to Nohr would have been inconsistent. Now had they given Corrin the choice to spare or kill Kaze and Rinkah perhaps then they could have done that, but frankly I'm glad they didn't do that story as it would have been too black and white like Birthright's story (I like Conquest story more and I can agree not everything in it is good, but Birthright's story has more things that bother me such as the out of no where character deaths and I do not like

repetitive deaths in the case of Lilith and Elise both pulling a block attack with the former not having to even do that nonsense because Corrin wasn't even exhausted nor sneaked attacked something which Lilith's death in Conquest handled better.

It just has a boring narrative that made me felt uninterested with only a few chapters I liked such as the vs Leo chapter) and you have to take into account Corrin doesn't show any such care about rank and has lived a yes sheltered life, but one that has been luxurious and with people who have loved him, so what point would there be to him being trying to become king of both Nohr and Hoshido?

Also Frederick handled the distrust towards Robin better than Takumi does with Corrin, especially when he calls Takumi out with that logic when he started acting jerkish to Azura who has lived in Hoshido most of her life.

Edited April 1, 2016 by AbsoluteZer0Nova

[blah the Prussian]

I don't know, you can be a merciful conquerer. Very few actual conquerer killed defenseless POWs for sport.

Edited April 1, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[joshcja]

Meh, forget merciful, pragmatic is fine. Having 2 live hostages (flame clan nobility and a high ranking spy) can buy a lot more value than 2 random corpses.

Edited April 1, 2016 by joshcja

[RedRob]

I don't know, you can be a merciful conquerer. Very few actual conquerer skilled defenseless POWs for sport.

You have an unwanted s in front of killed.

[The DanMan]

We all wanted that. Too bad they hired anime instead of a real writer.

They hired a real writer. A guy who was extremely busy yet somehow spitballed out 500 pages per route that they decided to follow virtually to the letter.

There's no one factor behind the game's failings.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

A merciful conqueror would not being something Corrin would be able to become because of Garon's "leave no survivors!" once he ends up taking a active role in sending his goon

Hans in chapter 13 to override Corrin's sparing

and when the Nohr army invades Hoshido with him being there to observe. There is just too much of a clashing heads here or rather scratch that actually Corrin's head would be rolling on the ground. Now I think a pragmatic conqueror would work a bit better in gaining some trust from Garon while still keeping Corrin in character, though I really only see Rinkah being the one spared yet I doubt she would let herself succumb to being a hostage in putting the Fire Tribe in peril considering her warrior mentality and would rather die keeping her honor then live in shame also even then if I recall correctly I don't think the game even gives anything of the sort at proving Rinkah's claim of being the daughter to the Fire Tribe chief (do correct me if I'm wrong), despite her bringing it up when she first appears and so Garon would need proof of her claim to be even bother using her as a hostage.