Do you buy Kaze's reason for joining Corrin in Conquest?

[rexcalibur]

I've seen different opinions on this so I was curious on what y'all thought about this. IMO, it makes sense considering his massive guilt but it really could have been developed and executed.

[MCProductions]

During my first playthrough, I initially didn't, but I once I saw his supports I bought it.

Now I buy it, but I do wonder what he was thinking when mid to late game starts.

[Elif]

I love him a lot so I didn't care about his reason because I was just happy that he was in Conquest, but after actually seeing how his recruitment was enacted, I don't know...

I agree that it makes sense for his character, being loyal and always trying to repay the person who saved his life, the guilt from his situation with Corrin, etc., but if we had some dialogue of him at least mentioning/discussing it with Saizo or something, I think I would've been a bit more comfortable with it.

[saisymbolic]

I love him a lot so I didn't care about his reason because I was just happy that he was in Conquest, but after actually seeing how his recruitment was enacted, I don't know...

I agree that it makes sense for his character, being loyal and always trying to repay the person who saved his life, the guilt from his situation with Corrin, etc., but if we had some dialogue of him at least mentioning/discussing it with Saizo or something, I think I would've been a bit more comfortable with it.

I agree with this.

I just wish there was some scene of him and Saizou talking about it before he essentially defected to their enemies' forces.

Edited April 15, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[rexcalibur]

I agree with this.

I just wish there was some scene of him and Saizou talking about it before he essentially defected to their enemies' forces.

Yeah, he doesn't even tell Saizo his motivations for joining Corrin. I think he must have hidden his guilt from his brother and it's probably one of those things they mutually don't speak to each other about so he realized it would have been pointless in trying to explain it to him.

[Sentacotus]

Once you see Kaze's supports it makes more sense.

[Tolvir]

The reason for why he says he joins makes no sense, but the personal reason behind it all does. Kaze feels responsible for Corrin's capture, so for him to have the opportunity to serve Corrin and possibly "atone for his sins" so to speak is a big deal to him, larger than the chance of him being exiled from his homeland. I just wish they did a little more with it, especially when you had to work with Saizo for a chapter. So the personal reason for him joining makes a lot of sense, but the excuse he uses really doesnt.

[Rezzy]

I can see him joining, I sometimes wondered why he stayed, though. Maybe they could have had it like Birthright, but instead of killing him off (which was dumb and kinda came out of nowhere), they could have him rejoin Hoshido if you don't have him get to A rank at some point in the narrative, maybe after you capture Sakura and Hans starts killing all the POWs.

[Dark Sage]

I think it's funny that he says he's joining Corrin because he thinks he can change things in Nohr for the better and then two chapters later, Corrin demonstrates he can't do jack shit about Garon and consistently just sits on his ass when Garon commits atrocities.

He should've been a Birthright exclusive in all honesty or he should've defected if you didn't reach an A support with him by a certain chapter.

[Lanko]

It may be reasonable for him to initially join because of the past, but that he never once questions what the hell Corrin is doing is batshit insanity. It could even work if he at least saw Azura's crystal ball and knew what was going on, but as it is, it's simply badly done, no matter the backstory and support convos.

"I feel guilty for letting you get captured from your family, and for that I'm totally fine assisting you in devastating your homeland, and fighting and killing your siblings and even my own brother."

[Dark Holy Elf]

I didn't have any problem accepting it myself. I was surprised there's any controversy around it at all, actually? Kaze believes (rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter) that Corrin can change things in Nohr and bring peace because (a) Corrin risked her on life to spare Kaze's in Chapter 2, and (b) Corrin spared all the Hoshidan soldiers in Chapter 11. Toss in the backstory about how Kaze was always "supposed" to be Corrin's bodyguard/retaininer and yeah, this strikes me as an odd one to complain about.

It's also possible FE has numbed me to the idea of people joining the main character's side for little reason, but I think this is better backed-up than some.

[Sunwoo]

No, I don't buy Suzukaze's reason for joining Kamui in Conquest. He seems to have a massive guilt complex over whatever had happened to Kamui, even if it weren't really his fault. So … clearly the logical choice is to betray the country that everyone else important to him is in. Wonder if he ever gets a guilt-boner at the end of Conquest over everything he's helped to do, including what happens to his brother. Or if it's really all just about Kamui.

Conquest and Birthright had a lot of forced parallels in its structure; the one thing that they chose NOT to parallel was what would have made a lot of sense! (Kaze leaving the party.)

[NekoKnight]

It may be reasonable for him to initially join because of the past, but that he never once questions what the hell Corrin is doing is batshit insanity. It could even work if he at least saw Azura's crystal ball and knew what was going on, but as it is, it's simply badly done, no matter the backstory and support convos.

"I feel guilty for letting you get captured from your family, and for that I'm totally fine assisting you in devastating your homeland, and fighting and killing your siblings and even my own brother."

This. I can understand him wanting to make up for his failure in protecting Kamui but that 'debt' pales in comparison to the damage he would do to his own homeland. How do you suppose he would react to

Sakura's soldiers getting massacred?

"H-hey, Kamui? How about that selfless courage and internal reform? Kamui...?"

Or when

both his brother and the crown prince of Hoshido are killed, partially because of his cooperation with Kamui?

"This...is for the good of everyone... except everyone who died."

Or maybe he just doesn't care.

Suzukaze doesn't belong in Conquest, but then again, neither does a moral paragon like Kamui either.

Edited April 15, 2016 by NekoKnight

[BruceLee]

This. I can understand him wanting to make up for his failure in protecting Kamui but that 'debt' pales in comparison to the damage he would do to his own homeland. How do you suppose he would react to

Sakura's soldiers getting massacred?

"H-hey, Kamui? How about that selfless courage and internal reform? Kamui...?"

Or when

both his brother and the crown prince of Hoshido are killed, partially because of his cooperation with Kamui?

"This...is for the good of everyone... except everyone who died."

Or maybe he just doesn't care.

Suzukaze doesn't belong in Conquest, but then again, neither does a moral paragon like Kamui either.

This, the writers didn't even try......

Kaze doesn't even say anything about Saizo's death, which he helped achieve.........it's so fucking stupid.

"This...is for the good of everyone... except everyone who died."

Hah, this line fits Conquest perfectly.

Edited April 15, 2016 by BruceLee

[Thane]

It's one of the worst pieces of writing in the entire game. A guy who's been trained to be loyal all his life - and genuinely is loyal, liked, respected and has no trouble with his country, its people or his fellow soldiers - abandons everything because the guy who went back to the nation that attacked Hoshido unprovoked makes a vague promise on stopping the war efficiently. He then doesn't raise any objections when Corrin goes on his murder spree and invades Hoshido - Suzukaze wasn't privy to the plan, so he just went along with killing people.

Then there's the issue that we're supposed to believe Corrin and Azura are acting sneaky and only pretend to be loyal to Garon, yet they walk around with the same ninja who Garon thought was dead. This is never brought up, and I can only assume the writers forgot about that part.

I can't take Suzukaze seriously as a character because of this, and it shows just how much mental gymnastics you have to do to accept this game's (lack of) logic.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Thane

[rexcalibur]

No, I don't buy Suzukaze's reason for joining Kamui in Conquest. He seems to have a massive guilt complex over whatever had happened to Kamui, even if it weren't really his fault. So … clearly the logical choice is to betray the country that everyone else important to him is in. Wonder if he ever gets a guilt-boner at the end of Conquest over everything he's helped to do, including what happens to his brother. Or if it's really all just about Kamui.

Conquest and Birthright had a lot of forced parallels in its structure; the one thing that they chose NOT to parallel was what would have made a lot of sense! (Kaze leaving the party.)

Even though he was a kid, he was trained since an early age to be a ninja so he should have been able to realize the threat. I don't think he believed Kamui truly wanted to harm Hoshido since he spared Hinoka and the others but yeah, it really makes no sense for him to continue staying with Kamui when they invade Hoshido and stuff. Oh well, it's not like he's the only character who is messed up by Conquest's plot.

[Quintessence]

I'm ok with him joining Corrin after everything that happens and the backstory. It just isn't adressed at all at subsequent events at Hoshido where the player expects more development on this part.

[Tolvir]

I think IS may of forgotten about his existence in Conquest past his joining chapter since past that, he is non-existent from the story. He doesnt even have a line with his brother in the Ninja chapter, or if he dies. Its like they threw him in there just so you can have a Hoshidan character in Conquest, without any regard as to who the character is and why he is there.

[Original Alear]

Considering Saizou's personality, he may have tried to kill Kaze if Kaze gave him a heads up that he was going to join Nohr.

[blah the Prussian]

Thane summed it up far better than I could have, but, in the words of me myself, "Batman v Superman just got dethroned for dumbest plot point". My initial reaction was one of shock, then rage. Then again, Chapter 11 in general was fucking stupid; Corrin shouldn't be sparing the Hoshidan army.

[kcirrot]

No, I don't. But then I don't understand Corrin's reasoning for going back and staying with a 'father' that kidnapped you, killed your birth mother and adopted father (although you think he's your real father), tried to have you killed and keeps sending you on suicide missions.

[rexcalibur]

It's one of the worst pieces of writing in the entire game. A guy who's been trained to be loyal all his life - and genuinely is loyal, liked, respected and has no trouble with his country, its people or his fellow soldiers - abandons everything because the guy who went back to the nation that attacked Hoshido unprovoked makes a vague promise on stopping the war efficiently. He then doesn't raise any objections when Corrin goes on his murder spree and invades Hoshido - Suzukaze wasn't privy to the plan, so he just went along with killing people.

Then there's the issue that we're supposed to believe Corrin and Azura are acting sneaky and only pretend to be loyal to Garon, yet they walk around with the same ninja who Garon thought was dead. This is never brought up, and I can only assume the writers forgot about that part.

I can't take Suzukaze seriously as a character because of this, and it shows just how much mental gymnastics you have to do to accept this game's (lack of) logic.

Do you think the main problem is that the story is supposed to be about revolutionizing Nohr from within and Kaze's reason to join was supposed to help them with that goal (along with his guilt complex and obsession with repaying debts brought up in supports) but the story doesn't really show Corrin trying to make Nohr a better place? Or do you think the main problem is that Kaze doesn't explain his real reason for joining unless you A support him? I don't there's much to really discuss about Kaze not raising any objections to invading Hoshido, that's just dumb and OOC for him.

[Avalanche]

I'm fine with him joining up, it makes sense given Kaze's backstory with Corrin and who am I to say no to my favorite character being available in each route? My issue is that there is no pathos for him joining later on, especially in Chapter 17 and 25, where his brother is present. Then again, this is Fates' story and there are 7 billion threads talking about how lousy it is, so I'll just take another Ninja and move on.

[Thor Odinson]

I could give him a stretch for the chapter 11 join reason but staying past 17 or so without extensive supports and extra shit you do to make him stay, not so much

[Thane]

Do you think the main problem is that the story is supposed to be about revolutionizing Nohr from within and Kaze's reason to join was supposed to help them with that goal (along with his guilt complex and obsession with repaying debts brought up in supports) but the story doesn't really show Corrin trying to make Nohr a better place? Or do you think the main problem is that Kaze doesn't explain his real reason for joining unless you A support him? I don't there's much to really discuss about Kaze not raising any objections to invading Hoshido, that's just dumb and OOC for him.

I don't even know where to begin with the problems, and I don't understand how people can give him the benefit of the doubt in the first place.

Let's start with the obvious: the guy never expresses any dislike for Hoshido, its people, his fellow soldiers, his family or the royals, or at least not in any way that would make any player assume that his loyalties were in question. In fact, he's very polite and seems to enjoy their company in most supports, and in Birthright he takes his main story duties very seriously. So why is it, then, that a guy trained in warfare and espionage, who was at the plaza that got blown up by the sword Corrin brought, who was there to see Corrin choosing to go back to a nation that attacked Hoshido unprovoked. decides to trust the same person on a whim because they say they don't want to fight? He's got no proof that Corrin is speaking the truth, he's got no way of knowing how they'd go about solving the conflict peacefully, and he's fine with dropping everything he has ever known to join someone who has already made a highly questionable decision, and who doesn't know anything of the world because, you know, until recently they had been locked up, and one of their most striking character traits is that they're naïve.

Secondly, we have the issue that I mentioned earlier, that the writers simply forgot that he was supposed to have been dead. Not only that, but Suzukaze was forced to fight to the death in front of the entire Nohrian royal family, yet he's fine with joining forces with them. Sure, Corrin and Leo saved him, but the big cheese Xander was about to chop his head off without question; how does a person willingly go back to that?