Ken Masters Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Valid points. I'll have to disagree, though, on becoming organized. That takes out all the fun out of my Mafia experience, I enjoy being a chaotic tornado of bullshit, barking in a general direction until I'm tired I'll let the organizer to be someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 ????? I didn't defend Gaius going into D3? I was the one who thought he was auto scum amongst the scum team. Also I'm pretty sure I explained all the townreads I had? Could you give an example? I can't into SkypeLogs properly from my browser but i recall you talking to ?Dragonflare7? about how you didn't think Gaius was scum, suggesting possible Ninja/Framer or something of the like. Maybe I'm confusing one OC chat with another but that's a topic i remember coming up, because Regret and DF7 were talking about ways to approach you for reads not long before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonflare7 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I shall keep the tips in mind, many thanks. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 My active vanilla status meant that I didn't have any results for scorri to give me also agh I didn't even think that I should have claimed something that would get me NK'd because that would have been handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 It didn't matter your status, I could still give results. I just didn't apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiya Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I can agree with my analysis. My indecisiveness definitely stopped me from acting on our plans, a problem that I hope to fix soon (This probably also contributed to me not using my role on N1, unfortunately). I'll also try to avoid forming such a close alliance next time, haha ^^ Another problem that I noticed: I didn't discuss on the thread...at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ken, your attitude is pretty wrong. I don't really know what went on in this game, but know when to lie and when not to lie. And especially in an OC game where you can speak to people privately, if you're going to start telling a lot of lies as town, you have to keep one person whom you trust, to whom you're telling the truth, so that they can back you up. Looking at this game from the outside, you should have been obvtown as fuck but somehow you got all the townies to think you were scum. Yeah, they screwed up, but recognize that your lies created a situation where people didn't trust you. Also, of course you knew Gaius was scum; you were in a 1v1 with him! The rest of the town didn't have the same knowledge you did. Mafia is a team game. You don't get points for being right if you couldn't see the game from the perspective of the other townies and couldn't convince them. general thoughts: 1) Don't lynch outside a 1v1; especially if you have a vig on standby to shoot the other person if you're wrong. 2) SB and kirsche both staying alive so long in a game where half the players were new should have set off alarm bells. 3) Perma-OC silence is the worst modifier ever and served no real purpose. 4) This game should have been identified as bastard, or at the least, a rule should have been in place about not being able to trust role PM results. 5) Elie, you overcorrected for the inherent townsidedness of OC, by a lot. (This game was pretty scumsided) 6) People just overthought everything. EG: An ITP with killing abilities isn't realistic in a 13p game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Masters Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Ken, your attitude is pretty wrong. I don't really know what went on in this game, but know when to lie and when not to lie. And especially in an OC game where you can speak to people privately, if you're going to start telling a lot of lies as town, you have to keep one person whom you trust, to whom you're telling the truth, so that they can back you up. Looking at this game from the outside, you should have been obvtown as fuck but somehow you got all the townies to think you were scum. Yeah, they screwed up, but recognize that your lies created a situation where people didn't trust you. Also, of course you knew Gaius was scum; you were in a 1v1 with him! The rest of the town didn't have the same knowledge you did. Mafia is a team game. You don't get points for being right if you couldn't see the game from the perspective of the other townies and couldn't convince them. "Your attitude is pretty wrong""I don't really know what went on this game" I'm sorry sir, I think I haven't seen your credentials as an attiutude cop. Don't teach me how to play. I'll do what I want how I want, and if you're not cool with it, then go start your own game and ban me. But don't go around with the cards already flipped playing Captain Hindsight on me or anyone, especially saying "I don't know what happened" because that really irks me. You can disagree with how I see the game. You certainly cannot tell me how should I play it. Edited June 27, 2016 by Ken Masters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Actually, let me correct myself- the town and mafia roles in this game didn't make it scumsided. Scorri's role / the game being bastard made it scumsided. Bastard games are inherently scumsided because if you don't tell the town it's bastard then town messes up (like this game) and if you tell the town it's bastard then they overthink everything even if the roles in the game aren't actually that bastard (like conspiracy) and that results in town messing up. Chaos and uncertainty naturally benefits the mafia because they're organized and informed and therefore affected less by it. @Ken- The reason I'm offering my opinion is bc I have an outside perspective and therefore can cut through all the bullshit of this game and offer an unbiased opinion. Also, I'm not telling you this because I think you should be banned from games; I'm telling you this because you clearly care about mafia and so it's good if you improve and realize what you did wrong. There's a reason why even though Refa/Blitz objectively fucked up a lot worse than you did, people are more annoyed at you than them. Take that as you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 4) This game should have been identified as bastard, or at the least, a rule should have been in place about not being able to trust role PM results. 5) Elie, you overcorrected for the inherent townsidedness of OC, by a lot. (This game was pretty scumsided) 4) There was a rule for this. 5) I realize now that it happened that I went too steep with my setup being anti-town. Thoughts on the game sans-ITP? Edited June 27, 2016 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 gg I specifically read the rules before I made that post to check if the rule existed and missed it The roles probably would have been balanced without scorri, but the roles being balanced isn't the same thing as the game being balanced. I feel like your strategy of combating the townsidedness of OC was to sow distrust and uncertainty, like by having two couriers solely to fuck with each other, and generally all that stuff still makes it lean towards the mafia. I think there are better ways than that to make town leaders ineffective. Also, generally speaking, I don't think bastard games are fun for anyone but the mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I am not Captain Hindsight but I can definitely tell you that you need to not lie to people who are obviously town Like, there's no point to that whatsoever, and you calling out Refa, Blitz, and I for being asleep or whatever is asinine. We made some mistakes, but it's not like we were utterly blind. We had our own team that worked opposite yours just because you lied about things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (can we edit now? Anyway, double post because of that) Normal, logical people would obviously immediatly notice something fishy was going on, and start digging it out. Unfortunately, only me, DragonFlare and the now difunt Regret seemed to notice the obvious signs. like, this is an actual thing you said what reason did you have to say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Masters Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 @Ken- The reason I'm offering my opinion is bc I have an outside perspective and therefore can cut through all the bullshit of this game and offer an unbiased opinion. Also, I'm not telling you this because I think you should be banned from games; I'm telling you this because you clearly care about mafia and so it's good if you improve and realize what you did wrong. There's a reason why even though Refa/Blitz objectively fucked up a lot worse than you did, people are more annoyed at you than them. Take that as you will. Look man, that ain't gonna happen. You call that "improving", but that's only on your way to see the game. I am not you. I couldn't care less about your unbiased opinion, because is biased to fit in your model of a Mafia game. I will play how I see it. Like it or not, Ken "What the fuck am I doing" Masters will not change on bit. If that annoys people, well, sorry but not sorry. You can always kill me next game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Masters Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) I am not Captain Hindsight but I can definitely tell you that you need to not lie to people who are obviously town L M A O Peace out, people. Hopefully I get to see you all next game <3 Edited June 28, 2016 by Ken Masters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 The roles probably would have been balanced without scorri, but the roles being balanced isn't the same thing as the game being balanced. I feel like your strategy of combating the townsidedness of OC was to sow distrust and uncertainty, like by having two couriers solely to fuck with each other, and generally all that stuff still makes it lean towards the mafia. I think there are better ways than that to make town leaders ineffective. Would you be willing to work with me on a second round of this? I'd appreciate the partnership and it's nice to see you back, even if it's to call my setup questionable. You can always kill me next game If this happens, I want you to quote this line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) during a game called Mystery Mafia (I think), which while I didn't play in, remembered being a hoot.not trawling through the reminder of the thread but: 1) you were definitely in that game, i recall your slot having something around a sub (i think eclipse subbed into your slot) 2) that was the mass-tailor game, and you were it 3) what. edit: i figured it out, you're thinking of conspiracy mafia, the bastard game that wasn't actually bastard at all edit2: on another note, it's almost like silencer type roles are terrible roles when one gets affected by them. stop using silencers in the year 2016 Edited June 28, 2016 by Curly Brace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I think in games Manix joins, we should all silence him with lynches and nightkills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Out of curiosity, refa, why didn't you ever give me the sheet? SB AND Ken cleared me (in a way, lul), and yeah, I did lie about my n1 action, but even then you understood why I did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Also I didn't 1v1 paper out of sheer laziness lul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Oh holy shit I fake claimed the exact same role as dragonflare and didn't get punished for it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Dragonflare didn't claim to leaders for like most of the game iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Out of curiosity, refa, why didn't you ever give me the sheet? SB AND Ken cleared me (in a way, lul), and yeah, I did lie about my n1 action, but even then you understood why I did it. I forgot and I'm a bad person. Dragonflare didn't claim to me until after Paper died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Look man, that ain't gonna happen. You call that "improving", but that's only on your way to see the game. I am not you. I couldn't care less about your unbiased opinion, because is biased to fit in your model of a Mafia game. I will play how I see it. Like it or not, Ken "What the fuck am I doing" Masters will not change on bit. If that annoys people, well, sorry but not sorry. You can always kill me next game With this kind of attitude I'm mostly certainly not having you around in any of my games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Look man, that ain't gonna happen. You call that "improving", but that's only on your way to see the game. I am not you. I couldn't care less about your unbiased opinion, because is biased to fit in your model of a Mafia game. I will play how I see it. Like it or not, Ken "What the fuck am I doing" Masters will not change on bit. If that annoys people, well, sorry but not sorry. You can always kill me next game Drop this attitude. If you're town, you're going to dethrone Marth as the mislynch option. If you're mafia, you're going to screw your team over. If you aren't willing to improve, then you're wasting everyone else's time. This from someone whose first OC game was a gigantic trainwreck, and whose first NOC game was twice as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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