Alligator Attack at Disney Kills Toddler

[Moblin Major General]

So this happened not even two days after the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. As a result, Florida Fish and Wildlife shot 4 alligators, and Disney was forced to clarify its no swimming signs. It also marks the first time in its 45 year history that someone has died on Walt Disney World property. Thoughts on this?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i've heard of abunch of hilarious twitter names that don't belong in this thread.

with that said, i don't know enough details to fully comment on the matter, so i'll refrain until i do so.

[Ansem]

I read somewhere that lawsuits against Disney rarely rules in the plaintiff's favor as there is a huge tourist industry at stake. But I'm sure the parents can settle something out of court.

[Rezzy]

Without knowing more about the incident, my view is the same as the zoo controversy. It's the responsibility of the zoo, amusement park, etc to ensure the safety of its customers, especially when children are present. They should either ensure there are no dangerous animals at risk of injuring customers, build their park somewhere else, or have heavily armed guards on standby to keep the park goers safe.

[Dwalin2010]

My sincere condolences to the baby's family, but I think killing alligators (especially 4 of them, of whom at least 3 weren't responsible) is pointless. It's not like sentencing to death a human criminal who knows what he/she was doing before getting the punishment (doesn't mean that I support the death penalty though). The alligators are impossible to explain they shouldn't attack humans. Security measures should be taken, sure, but taking revenge against an animal will accomplish nothing, especially if there wasn't just these 4, but a huge quantity around there. I agree with Rezzy, the amusement park staff should have been more responsible in its appoach to the local situation, and why on earth leave a child alone without watching in an area known for the presence of alligators, and with signs there, even if they weren't very clear/specific?

By the way, that reminds me of an article I once read where a thief chased by the police tried to swim across the lake and was killed by an alligator (he tried to swim across even though there was a warning sign). They killed the alligator afterwards, instead of just saying "oh, well...what happens, happens...". While in the case of the baby at the amusement park I understand the anger, but here the man was asking for it. If a policeman shot him after he wouldn't stop, they wouldn't have sentenced the policeman to death, would they?

[Moblin Major General]

My sincere condolences to the baby's family, but I think killing alligators (especially 4 of them, of whom at least 3 weren't responsible) is pointless. It's not like sentencing to death a human criminal who knows what he/she was doing before getting the punishment (doesn't mean that I support the death penalty though). The alligators are impossible to explain they shouldn't attack humans. Security measures should be taken, sure, but taking revenge against an animal will accomplish nothing, especially if there wasn't just these 4, but a huge quantity around there. I agree with Rezzy, the amusement park staff should have been more responsible in its appoach to the local situation, and why on earth leave a child alone without watching in an area known for the presence of alligators, and with signs there, even if they weren't very clear/specific?

By the way, that reminds me of an article I once read where a thief chased by the police tried to swim across the lake and was killed by an alligator (he tried to swim across even though there was a warning sign). They killed the alligator afterwards, instead of just saying "oh, well...what happens, happens...". While in the case of the baby at the amusement park I understand the anger, but here the man was asking for it. If a policeman shot him after he wouldn't stop, they wouldn't have sentenced the policeman to death, would they?

From what I understand, the alligators at Disney were acclimated to people, which makes them very dangerous. June is also mating season, making them territorial and aggressive. Unlike with the Gorilla, I find the parents fully at fault for negligibly ignoring both the sign and the reasoning behind it. I've not seen an alligator outside of a zoo, but I have family in Florida who have. Sadly, it was only a matter of time that the happiest place on Earth experienced a little sadness. Also, it wasn't revenge. Most likely, all 4 of those alligators were in high traffic areas and could've attacked someone else. Removing alligators isn't easy, and there was probably too much risk involved in trying to relocate them due to their acclimation.

[Rezzy]

From what I understand, the alligators at Disney were acclimated to people, which makes them very dangerous. June is also mating season, making them territorial and aggressive. Unlike with the Gorilla, I find the parents fully at fault for negligibly ignoring both the sign and the reasoning behind it. I've not seen an alligator outside of a zoo, but I have family in Florida who have. Sadly, it was only a matter of time that the happiest place on Earth experienced a little sadness. Also, it wasn't revenge. Most likely, all 4 of those alligators were in high traffic areas and could've attacked someone else. Removing alligators isn't easy, and there was probably too much risk involved in trying to relocate them due to their acclimation.

Why the heck do they have a park where there's mating alligators roaming about? In a place where children are going to be, a simple sign is a negligently ineffective precaution to take. Alligators are faster than one would think, and if there's any nearby, they shouldn't even be allowing people in the area.

[Baldrick]

@rezzy; if you saw a sign next to a body of water warning of alligators, would you let your children swim in it?

[Dwalin2010]

By the way, please don't misundestand my previous post: even though I said the park staff should be more resposible, that doesn't absolve the carelessness of the parents. I mean, with all respect and understanding of the tragedy, I agree they should have known better than to let the child loose in such a dangerous area.

[Rezzy]

@rezzy; if you saw a sign next to a body of water warning of alligators, would you let your children swim in it?

No, I wouldn't be there at all, but if I'm taking my kids to Disney World, and something billed as a Spa and Resort, it shouldn't be something that guests should have to worry about. The boy that was killed was my son's age, and I don't think I'm ever going to take him to Disney World, now.

Disney World is the paradigm of the family vacation, and if they can't do their utmost to protect children, their primary demographic, they don't deserve that title anymore.

It really saddens me that stuff like this keeps happening. It makes me paranoid to let my son outside.

[Water Mage]

Why the heck do they have a park where there's mating alligators roaming about? In a place where children are going to be, a simple sign is a negligently ineffective precaution to take. Alligators are faster than one would think, and if there's any nearby, they shouldn't even be allowing people in the area.

Because the land in a swamp area was cheap, or so I've heard.

That being said, it's tragc what happened, but I wonder if Disney ever knew there were Alligators there, it was an artificial lake.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Water Mage

[Baldrick]

No

Congratulations! You're smarter than at least one other parent.

[Rezzy]

Because the land in a swamp area was cheap, or so I've heard.

That being said, it's tragc what happened, but I wonder if Disney ever knew there were Alligators there, it was an artificial lake.

If they had signs up, it seems they were aware of it.

[Moblin Major General]

Why the heck do they have a park where there's mating alligators roaming about? In a place where children are going to be, a simple sign is a negligently ineffective precaution to take. Alligators are faster than one would think, and if there's any nearby, they shouldn't even be allowing people in the area.

Alligators are not Crocodiles. If it were crocodiles, I would raise hell about it because crocodiles attack and eat people much more often. You don't have to fear going to Disney World because of a perfect storm. Disney is probably the safest theme park there is if it took 45 years for something to go wrong on this scale.

[The DanMan]

Would it have been terribly hard to fence off a certain area? This was inevitable sooner or later. Fault's on Disney.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Guys, it's Florida.

There are alligators living on the side of the road.

There were signs posted near the lagoon saying "no swimming".

Not only are there alligators in the lagoon, there are also water moccasins, and a ridiculous amount of bacteria. It's a man-made lagoon in the middle of swamp and marsh lands.

[Anacybele]

I don't think I'm ever going to take him to Disney World, now.

Disney World is the paradigm of the family vacation, and if they can't do their utmost to protect children, their primary demographic, they don't deserve that title anymore.

Rezzy, I kinda think you're overreacting here a bit. Disney is amazing. I was there two years in a row and had a ton of fun. I was also there when I was two. I'm still here today. And as said above, Disney must really be hella safe if it took 45 years for something like this to happen there.

And like others stated, Disney had signs saying the area was restricted. I know that you're a parent and you like to say "parents can only do so much to watch their kids." And you're right on this, honestly. Two year olds can't read either, of course. But this is where the parents' responsibility comes in.

And in this case, these parents flat out IGNORED the warning sign and brought their kid there. That is just plain negligence and stupidity. I blamed all parties in the zoo incident, but here, I only blame the parents. I'm sorry, but it's how I feel. A zoo or park can only do so much to try and ensure guest safety by having rules and regulations and safety equipment and all. But it's up to the guests to actually follow these rules, and the staff simply can't force that.

I have no sympathy for these parents because of this and because of my belief that they caused their own child's death. I'm sorry for that boy though, he had his life cut terribly short when it never should have.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Anacybele

[Refa]

I have no sympathy for these parents because of this and because of my belief that they caused their own child's death. I'm sorry for that boy though, he had his life cut terribly short when it never should have.

Dude, that's really harsh for no reason. Whether or not it's their fault (partially or entirely), their own child died. It's okay to show some sympathy.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Refa

[Rezzy]

Guys, it's Florida.

There are alligators living on the side of the road.

There were signs posted near the lagoon saying "no swimming".

Not only are there alligators in the lagoon, there are also water moccasins, and a ridiculous amount of bacteria. It's a man-made lagoon in the middle of swamp and marsh lands.

If they were out camping, I'd agree, but when it's a resort, it's on the company to ensure that wild animals aren't able to get at the customers.

Rezzy, I kinda think you're overreacting here a bit. Disney is amazing. I was there two years in a row and had a ton of fun. I was also there when I was two. I'm still here today. And as said above, Disney must really be hella safe if it took 45 years for something like this to happen there.

And like others stated, Disney had signs saying the area was restricted. I know that you're a parent and you like to say "parents can only do so much to watch their kids." And you're right on this, honestly. Two year olds can't read either, of course. But this is where the parents' responsibility comes in.

And in this case, these parents flat out IGNORED the warning sign and brought their kid there. That is just plain negligence and stupidity. I blamed all parties in the zoo incident, but here, I only blame the parents. I'm sorry, but it's how I feel. A zoo or park can only do so much to try and ensure guest safety by having rules and regulations and safety equipment and all. But it's up to the guests to actually follow these rules, and the staff simply can't force that.

I have no sympathy for these parents because of this and because of my belief that they caused their own child's death. I'm sorry for that boy though, he had his life cut terribly short when it never should have.

I think that area should have been gated off, if there was risk of alligators. It's a tragedy that the parents didn't heed the signs, but if the signs were the only thing there, I don't think that was enough of a precaution.

I may very well be letting the fact that I have a soon-to-be-two year old of my own influence my views, but having kids can make us think more emotionally when they are involved.

[Water Mage]

Wasn't there a Disney commercial with children playing on that exact same beach?

[Anacybele]

Dude, that's really harsh for no reason. Whether or not it's their fault (partially or entirely), their own child died. It's okay to show some sympathy.

Why should I sympathize parents that virtually killed their own child? I might as well say they did nothing wrong and it wasn't their fault. And that was not the case.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Anacybele

[Caliban of Sycorax]

If they were out camping, I'd agree, but when it's a resort, it's on the company to ensure that wild animals aren't able to get at the customers.

I think that area should have been gated off, if there was risk of alligators. It's a tragedy that the parents didn't heed the signs, but if the signs were the only thing there, I don't think that was enough of a precaution.

I may very well be letting the fact that I have a soon-to-be-two year old of my own influence my views, but having kids can make us think more emotionally when they are involved.

The alligators live in the lagoon, which is strictly off-limits to Guests. There are signs all across the beaches saying "no swimming". They are spaced out enough that you can always see at least two.

Also, once again: the resort was built on swamplands, which is where alligators live. Their home was already reduced when the resort was built. 66% of Walt Disney World Resort's property is not industry, instead dedicated to sustainability and conservation, including the protection of natural wildlife.

I understand that you are a parent and thus you are thinking of your child's welfare here, but you would also not take your child swimming in an area where there are "no swimming" signs posted. It's not like the family was on the beach and the alligator came on shore and snatched the child. The child was in the water, the alligator's habitat.

Also, gates will not do much. Alligators can climb over fences.

[Anacybele]

Thank you, Hamlet, you said precisely what I think.

What also pisses me off about these parents and this story is that they're not getting called out for their stupidity and negligence while the parents of that boy who climbed into the gorilla exhibit in Cincinnati ARE.

I still think the zoo was partly at fault for the latter incident, but in both cases the parents still held some blame and both sets of parents deserve to be called out upon. And I think the parents in the Disney incident deserve to be called out even more since they were actually being completely stupid and disobedient of rules. The parents of the zoo kid were not trying to do that. They simply didn't watch their kid properly and take their kid seriously enough when he said he wanted to climb in.

Btw, for the record, the zoo parents and kid were black while this Disney family was white. If there's racism involved in this, just...oh my fucking god. >_>

Edited June 20, 2016 by Anacybele

[ZemZem]

Why should I sympathize parents that virtually killed their own child? I might as well say they did nothing wrong and it wasn't their fault. And that was not the case.

The parents should've been more careful with the kid and shouldn't have let him stray TOO far, but other than that, this is not their fault whatsoever.

-They're from Nebraska and were just on vacation. They had no idea about the gators. And even then:

-The only warning sign was 'no swimming'. Nothing about gators. Nothing.

This was just one big freak accident. No one should be blamed. What should be done is getting comfort for this family and Disney World investigating their land and making things safer so no one should have to be subjected to this kind of unfortunate occurrence again.

[Shin]

A lot of people have said a lot of things, some of them nicer than others. However, I think the biggest tragedy is the death of the child. Perhaps the parents could have been more attentive and better informed, perhaps the park could have had done more to prevent things like this from happening. However, it's not as if the parents knew that their child could have been eaten by an alligator, and considering the park's history, it wasn't as if it was a common occurrence by any means.

I think it's important not to demonise the parents or the park, but to instead realise how tragic the event was. Perhaps in future the park can help make better counter-measures, whatever they might be, and hopefully the parents can receive the support they need to help come to terms with what has happened.