Alligator Attack at Disney Kills Toddler

[Sunwoo]

Newsflash, Hamlet. Not everyone lives in Florida. Not everyone knows a lot about swamps. People may know that swamps are dangerous, but I feel that I am well within reason to believe that if Disney World wants to have a giant family resort area, then I should expect it to be safe. If not, then they should either not build a park in that area, or be sure to EDUCATE everyone who enters the park the moment they do. And I mean explicitly, and not optionally if it's that big of an issue.

And Ana, you are being completely unsympathetic and it is not reflecting well on you. Regardless of the exact details, the parents did not kill their own child and are going through a difficult loss. It is not up to you to decide who is and who is not deserving of sympathy. Don't judge lest you be judged yourself.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Sunwoo

[Anacybele]

I realize I'm being unsympathetic. That's my choice. And regardless of whether or not the parents or other people knew about alligators, the signs were there, in plain view, and they're there for a reason. That's all.

Also, really, who the hell doesn't know there are swamps and alligators in Florida? That's basic knowledge of the place. I've been there a few times, but I've never lived there or anything. I'm actually from the north and I still know this.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

I realize I'm being unsympathetic. That's my choice. And regardless of whether or not the parents or other people knew about alligators, the signs were there, in plain view, and they're there for a reason. That's all.

Then if you realize that you are being unsympathetic, then I have every right to think whatever I may about you as a person for you being unsympathetic without bothering to do any research. Also, from what I had heard, the only sign that was there said "no swimming". And the child wasn't swimming.

Also, really, who the hell doesn't know there are swamps and alligators in Florida? That's basic knowledge of the place. I've been there a few times, but I've never lived there or anything. I'm actually from the north and I still know this.

Not what I said. I expect people know that alligators and swamps exist in Florida. I don't expect people to expect an alligator creeping up on them in a place that is advertised as safe and for families with young children.

Like … you take your eyes off your child when your at the fucking Grand Canyon and your child falls off the ledge? That I feel would be negligence on the parents' part, because the Grand Canyon is basically a hole in the ground and not all ledges are roped off. It's not that child appropriate, either. Disney World? That's supposed to be a place for families with children. I have pictures of myself at Disney World from so long ago I don't even remember going there personally. This is a place in which families with children that young are encouraged to visit. Now, if that's what Disney World is saying, I expect to be safe in such a location.

[Anacybele]

Someone in this thread stated earlier that the kid WAS swimming and the parents didn't try to do anything until the alligator showed up. So was that person lying or got their info wrong?

Whatever the case, the parents let their kid get too close to the water. Even though the signs just say "no swimming" I would personally take that to mean that you shouldn't go near the water or even on the shore. I'm surprised these parents didn't come to that same conclusion.

[Sunwoo]

Someone in this thread stated earlier that the kid WAS swimming and the parents didn't try to do anything until the alligator showed up. So was that person lying or got their info wrong?

That means that apparently there are conflicting sources and that MAYBE you should do your OWN RESEARCH to double check if you're going to make judgement calls like how you were. The sources that I had heard from just said that the child was wading in foot-deep water, and that the signs simply said no swimming, so I am repeating what I heard. If there is a conflicting source, clearly that means I have to look deeper into it. If you're really that curious, do your own research!

Whatever the case, the parents let their kid get too close to the water. Even though the signs just say "no swimming" I would personally take that to mean that you shouldn't go near the water or even on the shore. I'm surprised these parents didn't come to that same conclusion.

Hurray. You're so smart. Well, not everyone thinks that way, and I feel that the signs really SHOULD have been more clear than a vague "no swimming". I mean, this is opening yourself up to a bunch of fucking loopholes because human nature is human nature.

[Rezzy]

I really think the whole incident is tragic, and I feel I may have already reached a conclusion without knowing all the facts, and that may be a fault on my part, but if the sign only said "No Swimming", I think it should have been more clear as to the reason why. The parents may have thought it just meant there was no lifeguard on duty, and Disney didn't want to be held liable if park goers got into a deep area and drowned. The parents may have incorrectly thought that their toddler splashing around in the shallows was safe if they were nearby to keep an eye on him.

If all it said was "No Swimming", I think it should have been more clear and said something like "Danger! Alligators in Water!"

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I really think the whole incident is tragic, and I feel I may have already reached a conclusion without knowing all the facts, and that may be a fault on my part, but if the sign only said "No Swimming", I think it should have been more clear as to the reason why. The parents may have thought it just meant there was no lifeguard on duty, and Disney didn't want to be held liable if park goers got into a deep area and drowned. The parents may have incorrectly thought that their toddler splashing around in the shallows was safe if they were nearby to keep an eye on him.

If all it said was "No Swimming", I think it should have been more clear and said something like "Danger! Alligators in Water!"

in this case, yes alligators should've been on the sign.

still, breaking the rules is breaking the rules.

i mean, if a sign said no trespassing, would you trespass only to discover a giant dog that nearly kills you as you frantically try to escape?

EDIT: and then complain "well if i KNEW there was a dog then i WOULDN'T have trespassed."? no matter who you'd tell this story too, you'd clearly be in the wrong for trespassing.

if it said "no trespassing" or "beware of dog" the parents still broke the rules and endangered their child.

Edited June 21, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[PeaceRibbon]

I swear, this is the most depressing incident I've heard about in a while. Yeah, the other ones that happened recently were more tragic, but I sung in the park with my elementary school's choir twice. I'm still in disbelief something like this happened.

In response to most of the posts above, I'm personally gonna say that both parties involved are responsible for what happened. The sign should have been clearer, security should have been better, the parents should have paid more attention, all of it. I kinda feel there really isn't a blame game here.

[eclipse]

Geez, you'd think the recent gorilla incident would've made parents more aware of their children's whereabouts!

This is the other path said gorilla incident could've taken. . .and it's just as tragic. Don't really feel that blame should be placed anywhere right now.

Edited June 21, 2016 by eclipse

[Excellen Browning]

To be fair, maybe Disney should add "alligators in the water" to the no swimming signs. Gators are really common in Florida, and even if you remove them from your pool, there's a fair chance of them moving back in, so there's no guarantee the water will ever be gator-free.

[Res]

What I've read/seen from photos:

- the kid wasn't swimming, he was wading in the water about a foot from the water's edge.

- this is common; there's a Facebook tag making the rounds with dozens of other parents showing their own kids wading in the exact same stretch of water saying 'it could've been us' - basically it seems like something almost every family on that beach did.

- apart from the no swimming signs, there's nothing to indicate a lack of safeness. There are recliners on the beach really close to the water's edge and it looks as if it should be a safe place to be.

- the parents were right there; it's not as if the kid had wandered away from them. They were really close by.

All in all, a tragic accident.

And again, it's so super easy to judge a parent in retrospect.

[Rezzy]

What I've read/seen from photos:

- the kid wasn't swimming, he was wading in the water about a foot from the water's edge.

- this is common; there's a Facebook tag making the rounds with dozens of other parents showing their own kids wading in the exact same stretch of water saying 'it could've been us' - basically it seems like something almost every family on that beach did.

- apart from the no swimming signs, there's nothing to indicate a lack of safeness. There are recliners on the beach really close to the water's edge and it looks as if it should be a safe place to be.

- the parents were right there; it's not as if the kid had wandered away from them. They were really close by.

All in all, a tragic accident.

And again, it's so super easy to judge a parent in retrospect.

Yeah, I don't know what the surrounding area is like, but when I take my son to the park, he likes splashing around in the shallows. If I saw other parents letting their kids splash around in the water, I might have done the same. The signs apparently didn't say "Stay out of the water" and splashing in ankle deep water is hardly swimming.

[Water Mage]

It's worth noting that Alligators are just as dangerous on land as they are on water. They are incredibly fast, for someting of their size.

So even if the kid wasn't in the water, it would be still very dangerous.

[Kon]

Someone in this thread stated earlier that the kid WAS swimming and the parents didn't try to do anything until the alligator showed up. So was that person lying or got their info wrong?

Whatever the case, the parents let their kid get too close to the water. Even though the signs just say "no swimming" I would personally take that to mean that you shouldn't go near the water or even on the shore. I'm surprised these parents didn't come to that same conclusion.

Ana, you do realize that alligators are ambush predators, yes? They lurk in the shallows while being well camouflaged before lunging out of the water to snatch their target. Especially with murkier water, it would have been extremely difficult to have seen the alligator before it attacked. The father also sustained injuries after jumping in the water to try to save his child from the alligator, with the mother jumping in as well. It isn't as if they did absolutely nothing and just let their child be taken.

This is nothing less than a tragic accident. The parents don't deserve to be demonized like this after losing their son.

[Res]

This is nothing less than a tragic accident. The parents don't deserve to be demonized like this after losing their son.

This. They're going to be feeling enough guilt to last their lifetime. This is something they'll never fully recover from. They'll replay it over and over and over again in their minds, wondering what might have been.

This is apparently the area the kid was snatched from:

[Anacybele]

Huh... I guess I am being a little too harsh now that I know more about the location. I mean, I've been to Disney World before, but never stayed at any of the resort hotels. They were never affordable, I suppose.

But I didn't know that area was so busy. I thought the entire beach area was technically off limits. But...yeah, it's not cool at all to have gators living in an area where that many people lounge around. I'm now surprised there haven't been any other incidents like this in the 45 years the place has been around.

[Tryhard]

I don't know why people are so apprehensive to place any blame on the parents. Perhaps the park could have indicated specifically that there were alligators, but who sees "No swimming" and takes this to be a challenge?

It is tragic but the parents themselves should know what they did was wrong. It won't help to constantly rag on them for that, but it also doesn't help to eschew responsibility for saying the park should have done more and the parents had no contribution.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Tryhard

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I don't know why people are so apprehensive to place any blame on the parents. Perhaps the park could have indicated specifically that there were alligators, but who sees "No swimming" and takes this to be a challenge?

It is tragic but the parents themselves should know what they did was wrong. It won't help to constantly rag on them for that, but it also doesn't help to eschew responsibility for saying the park should have done more and the parents had no contribution.

i know right, as i said earlier with my comparison of "no trespassing" and "beware of dog"

do you really need to be told that there's a dog to convince you not to trespass in the first place?

[Res]

Because the kid wasn't swimming?

In the places I've lived, when beaches have no swimming signs, it's been because of water pollution or strong currents, nothing stopping anyone from wading along the shoreline.

Also the parents are going to be more than aware of what happened.

[Tryhard]

Also the parents are going to be more than aware of what happened.

Then they and everyone else should be aware that they are at least a good deal partly to blame.

Also, why would swimming in heavy currents or in water that is polluted be a good idea either? It may be less of a threat then alligators but that doesn't mean you should ignore the message.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Tryhard

[Res]

Well then you're depending upon everyone's definition of swimming as being 'touching the water', because I've never seen a 'no swimming' sign be a deterrent to wading along the shore.

More pictures of the area: they're putting up a fence and 'warning: alligators' sign now.

Also, photo of a kid at the same beach, mom describes the area as "a tiny beach, surrounded by pools, water slides, a restaurant and a fire pit. I can't conceive that an alligator would be in such a busy, small space."

[Tryhard]

My point is that you cannot wave away criticism from the parents, nor say every criticism of a parent in hindsight is easy. They had a lapse in judgement, and they are not horrible for that, but in this case a lapse in judgement lead to a horrible thing. That's all, but that also means they were at least partly responsible, for as much as my sympathies extend.

I understand there may be parents here but you cannot just blame everything on the company/property when things go wrong. It is usually fairly obvious when a company/property is undoubtedly being negligent exclusively.

As for putting up an alligator sign and/or fences, I didn't imply they shouldn't, and that's a good thing.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Tryhard

[Res]

Nah, I'm not trying to shift blame to the company/property. I don't really blame anyone here; I think it was just a tragic set of circumstances leading to the toddler's death.

Lapse of judgement? That's the part I'm not so sure about. For one, clearly wading in the shallow waters/playing on the beach was something many hundreds of visitors to this beach did. Second, given that hundreds of children have waded in those very same waters, this was clearly a freak, isolated incident.

From pretty much the moment of conception parents are judged on almost everything they do. And parents have lapses of judgement on a regular basis. Really, most (well, probably all, to be honest) of us reach adulthood because we're lucky.

[Refa]

My point is that you cannot wave away criticism from the parents, nor say every criticism of a parent in hindsight is easy. They had a lapse in judgement, and they are not horrible for that, but in this case a lapse in judgement lead to a horrible thing. That's all, but that also means they were at least partly responsible, for as much as my sympathies extend.

I understand there may be parents here but you cannot just blame everything on the company/property when things go wrong. It is usually fairly obvious when a company/property is undoubtedly being negligent exclusively.

As for putting up an alligator sign and/or fences, I didn't imply they shouldn't, and that's a good thing.

Yeah, these are basically my views on the subject as well. Maybe the company could have done more but yeah.

[Tryhard]

Nah, I'm not trying to shift blame to the company/property. I don't really blame anyone here; I think it was just a tragic set of circumstances leading to the toddler's death.

Lapse of judgement? That's the part I'm not so sure about. For one, clearly wading in the shallow waters/playing on the beach was something many hundreds of visitors to this beach did. Second, given that hundreds of children have waded in those very same waters, this was clearly a freak, isolated incident.

From pretty much the moment of conception parents are judged on almost everything they do. And parents have lapses of judgement on a regular basis. Really, most (well, probably all, to be honest) of us reach adulthood because we're lucky.

Isn't thinking both are to blame the same thing? It's not really something that holds any amount of weight, anyway. It's just a pet peeve of mine when responsibility can be misrepresented.

Couple things: just because it was something many people had done didn't make it a good decision. Many people may run across a busy road, but don't be surprised if you get hit by a car when doing so. If you poke a rattlesnake enough it will eventually bite someone. And yeah, it's an isolated incident, but at the same time it doesn't make those other people justified.

I'm not sure if I would say that people are lucky to live into adulthood (aside from health) - humans don't have the tendency to jam forks into toasters, and them being in dangerous situations is generally kept to the minimum except if living in a dangerous area. I'd say it's more correct to say that it is unlucky when things like this happen considering the amount of other people that may have ignored the message.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Tryhard