Why do people hate Awakening's story?

[Moblin Major General]

For those of you who say the Valm arc is unnecessary, I have to say that I'm sorry you feel that way. I, however, feel that it is quite necessary, because without it, The Geosphere, Starsphere, and Lifesphere would never have been obtained. The Binding Shield wouldn't have been at full power when Grima revived. Valm was a convenient way for the Binding Shield to come back while shifting focus off of the Grimleal, and that Chrom had to keep his enemies closer. Now, I would've prefered that Excellus was fought more than once, and that people didn't act around Walhart like Chatot did with Wigglytuff in the Explorers Series.

[Anacybele]

In the most basic terms, Awakening feels like it was trying to do what RD did, but with around half the amount of chapters and only one playable army (meaning no swapping between different groups of units). As a result, it got rushed and some stuff didn't make sense. And Emmeryn's death was stupid compared to, say Mikoto's in Fates (oh my god, that part gave me so many feels. Unlike Emmeryn's scenario).

Robin also gets too much spotlight and Chrom doesn't seem to get called out or suffer consequences for some of his stupid actions, like deciding to take on Valm right after the war with Plegia just ended, or deciding to trust Validar when he asked to borrow ships. The continent has no name and little world-building. We know very little about, say, the taguel compared to the laguz in Tellius. I like the taguel because bunnies, but I really really wish they'd been expanded on more.

And this is more personal taste, but to me, time travel stories are pretty much never good.

The only part of Awakening's story that wow'd me was when Basilio's death got faked. That was actually really clever. But other than that, the story is pretty bad.

[Dark Holy Elf]

For those of you who say the Valm arc is unnecessary, I have to say that I'm sorry you feel that way. I, however, feel that it is quite necessary, because without it, The Geosphere, Starsphere, and Lifesphere would never have been obtained. The Binding Shield wouldn't have been at full power when Grima revived. Valm was a convenient way for the Binding Shield to come back while shifting focus off of the Grimleal, and that Chrom had to keep his enemies closer. Now, I would've prefered that Excellus was fought more than once, and that people didn't act around Walhart like Chatot did with Wigglytuff in the Explorers Series.

With all due respect, saying a plot arc matters because of macguffins you obtain during them is a bit of a stretch. The writers can easily put in such things to make an arc "relevant" but it's very artificial.

As you said, Valm pretty much takes the focus of the Grimleal. I don't really mind its irrelevance so much of how weak its storyline is. The behaviours of characters like Yen'fay make no sense, Excellus feels like he has a great setup as a manipulator but the execution was terrible, and Walhart is a very tired Japanese trope of "strength means everything" villain, kind of an Ashnard 2.0 although at least none of his plans are as nonsenscial as Ashnard's decision to abandon his country.

Overall I think Awakening's story is much like that of many FEs, it has some good moments and occasionally shows some potential (like with the plot point of Chrom's father being a bit of a tyrant and causing Gangrel to be the way he is. Good idea! Totally isn't run with, and the Grimleal being horrible worshippers of a literal Satan figure actually kinda justifies him...) but overall is weak and muddled. It has some fun characters at least, but in general it remains yet another game in the series you shouldn't play for plot. Which is a pity because I thought FE8-10 were on the right track for getting better about that (although still not yet where I wanted the series to be) and thus Awakening was a significant step back for me.

[Dinar87]

If awakening didn't have three mini stories for a plot AND had more dark moments like chapter 10 I probably would've liked it more. In the end though, I much prefer the Tellius series (especially radiant dawn) in terms of story telling (haven't played FE4+5 yet) and I'm not really sure why that is. It just felt more dark and gritty compared to the modern FE games for some reason...

One problem I think the newer games have is some of the characters just seem too happy to kill rather than face the horrificness of the situations at hand. That's kinda annoying to me.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Dinar87

[Harvey]

With all due respect, saying a plot arc matters because of macguffins you obtain during them is a bit of a stretch. The writers can easily put in such things to make an arc "relevant" but it's very artificial.

As you said, Valm pretty much takes the focus of the Grimleal. I don't really mind its irrelevance so much of how weak its storyline is. The behaviours of characters like Yen'fay make no sense, Excellus feels like he has a great setup as a manipulator but the execution was terrible, and Walhart is a very tired Japanese trope of "strength means everything" villain, kind of an Ashnard 2.0 although at least none of his plans are as nonsenscial as Ashnard's decision to abandon his country.

Overall I think Awakening's story is much like that of many FEs, it has some good moments and occasionally shows some potential (like with the plot point of Chrom's father being a bit of a tyrant and causing Gangrel to be the way he is. Good idea! Totally isn't run with, and the Grimleal being horrible worshippers of a literal Satan figure actually kinda justifies him...) but overall is weak and muddled. It has some fun characters at least, but in general it remains yet another game in the series you shouldn't play for plot. Which is a pity because I thought FE8-10 were on the right track for getting better about that (although still not yet where I wanted the series to be) and thus Awakening was a significant step back for me.

Well....its Nintendo and they are usually about the gameplay rather than story. I mean yeah its an RPG and I get that RPGs should have strong stories...but FE's gameplay is so damn good that I don't really care if the story is just average and all.

[Dinar87]

Well....its Nintendo and they are usually about the gameplay rather than story. I mean yeah its an RPG and I get that RPGs should have strong stories...but FE's gameplay is so damn good that I don't really care if the story is just average and all.

I'm the opposite! I can usually forgive a game with mediocre (or even bad gameplay) if it has a good story to keep me engaged but it doesn't work the other way around for me.

[MCProductions]

The biggest problem I have with Awakening's story is how it has a protagonist-centered morality focus, which as a result makes the motivations and moralities of characters in that world really … shallow.

Awakening doesn't treat its rulers the same way as previous games did. Emmeryn does virtually nothing as a ruler while she's alive, walks right back into danger after a squadron of pegasus knights sacrificed themselves so she could escape, and then she jumps off a rock and commits suicide. She is the very definition of a weak and naive ruler, and yet is hailed as a martyr. Do you know who else was a weak and naive ruler? RD Elincia -- and she had an entire part dedicated to her in which she learned from her weakness and naivety and became a better ruler. Eirika, while she never was and never will be queen, is also naive and in her route she is tricked into handing over the sacred stone of Renais. She's not excused for this. So why is this okay for Emmeryn?

Eirika technically CAN become queen of Freila if she achieves an A support with Innes

I both like and hate the protagonist centered morality focus of the newer games, on one hand, it makes sense as history is written by the victors and every FE is shown to be a recap of historical events in the ending and not necessarily the actual events that took place Hell, Awakening's prologue is called "the Verge of History" for crying out loud, on the other hand, it hurts the storytelling because characters in Awakening are not in a different place at the end of the story from where they started and in Fates unless you look at the events EXACTLY from the protagonist's perspective and never with real world logic instead of Fantasy World logic, the characters can be seen as hypocrites. Hell, I like Conquest's story, but I can still see and understand this criticism

[Sunwoo]

Eirika technically CAN become queen of Freila if she achieves an A support with Innes

Fair enough, but my point was more that Eirika will never become queen of her own merit. You can't "accidentally" kill off Ephraim so that she can be queen of Renais, and if married to Innes she's only queen in that she's the wife of the king -- unlike Elincia and Emmeryn who were already queen and didn't need to get a man to be queen.

And it doesn't change the fact that the characters in not only Awakening, but Fates too, are no longer challenged to make difficult decisions about those they love and what is good for the country. They have an extremely protagonist-centered morality that only cares about the people right in front of them, and any flaws that might make them poor rulers are either just glossed over or we're supposed to believe they're not flaws and that they'll be a fine ruler even with these issues.

There's another thing I forgot in my previous post, and that is how Awakening and Fates treat the concept of pacifism and peace: it's a complete fucking joke.

FE did peaceful countries well in earlier games. They did warlike countries well in earlier games. Going back to Tellius (because it is the one I know best), Crimea may be the "good" and "peaceful" country but it certainly isn't bland. There were several Crimeans who said that their king "had it coming" because he was cooperating with laguz, and even in RD a base conversation shows that some citizens still are wary of laguz. Elincia had nobles outright rebelling against her because they thought she was too weak and idealistic. She responded (eventually) by putting down the rebel leader herself. This shows that despite her pacifism, Elincia knows that peace is something that at times requires force to achieve, and does not mean disbanding your fucking army with only one mercenary group defending the people or throwing yourself off a cliff after some pretty words (Emmeryn). Crimea as a country shows that being "good" and "peaceful" does not mean that there's no room for further depth, or that the people are universally good (Hoshido). Izumo from Fates is apparently the "true neutral", but again they're a bit of a joke. More so in the English version, but even in the Japanese it feels like the writers don't really care in realistically portraying a neutral country? How do Izumo and Ylisse have no army, even Switzerland has an army. The later games don't give a shit about world building. It's basically "peace is good" and "warlike is bad" and "there is no complexity ever". Even other "good" countries like Elibe and Renais are more morally complex than Ylisse and Hoshido.

I don't even want to get into how the antagonistic countries and the leadership become more cartoonish and evil in Awakening and Fates, so I won't … for now.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Sunwoo

[MCProductions]

Fair enough, but my point was more that Eirika will never become queen of her own merit. You can't "accidentally" kill off Ephraim so that she can be queen of Renais, and if married to Innes she's only queen in that she's the wife of the king -- unlike Elincia and Emmeryn who were already queen and didn't need to get a man to be queen.

And it doesn't change the fact that the characters in not only Awakening, but Fates too, are no longer challenged to make difficult decisions about those they love and what is good for the country. They have an extremely protagonist-centered morality that only cares about the people right in front of them, and any flaws that might make them poor rulers are either just glossed over or we're supposed to believe they're not flaws and that they'll be a fine ruler even with these issues.

There's another thing I forgot in my previous post, and that is how Awakening and Fates treat the concept of pacifism and peace: it's a complete fucking joke.

FE did peaceful countries well in earlier games. They did warlike countries well in earlier games. Going back to Tellius (because it is the one I know best), Crimea may be the "good" and "peaceful" country but it certainly isn't bland. There were several Crimeans who said that their king "had it coming" because he was cooperating with laguz, and even in RD a base conversation shows that some citizens still are wary of laguz. Elincia had nobles outright rebelling against her because they thought she was too weak and idealistic. She responded (eventually) by putting down the rebel leader herself. This shows that despite her pacifism, Elincia knows that peace is something that at times requires force to achieve, and does not mean disbanding your fucking army with only one mercenary group defending the people or throwing yourself off a cliff after some pretty words (Emmeryn). Crimea as a country shows that being "good" and "peaceful" does not mean that there's no room for further depth, or that the people are universally good (Hoshido). Izumo from Fates is apparently the "true neutral", but again they're a bit of a joke. More so in the English version, but even in the Japanese it feels like the writers don't really care in realistically portraying a neutral country? How do Izumo and Ylisse have no army, even Switzerland has an army. The later games don't give a shit about world building. It's basically "peace is good" and "warlike is bad" and "there is no complexity ever". Even other "good" countries like Elibe and Renais are more morally complex than Ylisse and Hoshido.

I don't even want to get into how the antagonistic countries and the leadership become more cartoonish and evil in Awakening and Fates, so I won't … for now.

I wasn't even trying to discredit any of your points dude, I was just saying why part of me LIKES the protagonist centered morality even if I can both see and totally agree with why it's bad for storytelling

I do think Hoshido does a better job of being grey than Ylisse does thanks to Mokushu, but it definitely does a significantly worse job than Tellius, Elibe, or even Magvel. Everyone's an asshole in Jugdral and Archenea doesn't really get enough development to consider it

[Sunwoo]

1) Only the first two paragraphs are even a response to you.

2) I didn't even read your post past the part about Eirika technically being queen if you marry her to Innes.

[Augestein]

In the most basic terms, Awakening feels like it was trying to do what RD did, but with around half the amount of chapters and only one playable army (meaning no swapping between different groups of units). As a result, it got rushed and some stuff didn't make sense. And Emmeryn's death was stupid compared to, say Mikoto's in Fates (oh my god, that part gave me so many feels. Unlike Emmeryn's scenario).

Robin also gets too much spotlight and Chrom doesn't seem to get called out or suffer consequences for some of his stupid actions, like deciding to take on Valm right after the war with Plegia just ended, or deciding to trust Validar when he asked to borrow ships. The continent has no name and little world-building. We know very little about, say, the taguel compared to the laguz in Tellius. I like the taguel because bunnies, but I really really wish they'd been expanded on more.

And this is more personal taste, but to me, time travel stories are pretty much never good.

The only part of Awakening's story that wow'd me was when Basilio's death got faked. That was actually really clever. But other than that, the story is pretty bad.

I agree with this. On it's own, RD has some really awesome moments: you have Part 2 (seriously, Part 2 is just so odd and different. It's strangely dark without feeling forced which makes me love it more), Part 3 is okay at base, but feels really rushed because... As a whole, the story is just a cluster of nonsense in the end of the day.

And time travel stories don't sit well with me either, because it kind of lowers the stakes at any given moment, because if you lose, you know you can always go back in time until you set things right and win. Even with alternate dimensions, it only serves to denote the pointlessness of even fighting, because leaving to fix another timeline is essentially abandoning the old one. Even if you go back, it doesn't truly *fix* the suffering that everyone had in the first place (which was the reason you even time traveled in the first place).

For me, I like the idea of Plegia on the account that the war was started from Chrom's dad being a not so nice sort of guy and the story, which was kind of nice instead of it just being the standard "some evil army appears and starts causing problems." But it's not developed enough in 10 chapters to actually matter.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i think the real issue with the plegia thing is that by the end of the day chrom's dad was entirely justified.

if he actually did kill them all then the plot of the game would not have happened, so in a round a bout way ylisse is still the "can do no wrong" country, even if the developers didn't intend on it.

you can't just go #NotAllPlegia then have the majority actually be terribly awful brainwashed servants to their religion, heck i'm hard pressed to say that Henry and Tharja aren't bad people either, just in their own ways that aren't tied into the major religion of Plegia.

but yeah if Plegia wasn't such a shithole and was shown to have good people then Ylisse wouldn't be super perfect and Chrom's dad would've been a horrible person for wanting to kill everyone for the sake of afew bad apples.

Edited July 5, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[ruadath]

alot of stuff really don't make sense once you stop and think about it.

I think this is true of almost every single FE lol.

[Emperor Hardin]

Because the references to FE1, FE2, and FE3 were shoehorned in, and made no sense.

Even Marth takes a backseat to that unnamed Exalt.

For me, I like the idea of Plegia on the account that the war was started from Chrom's dad being a not so nice sort of guy and the story, which was kind of nice instead of it just being the standard "some evil army appears and starts causing problems." But it's not developed enough in 10 chapters to actually matter.

Checking Gangrel's supports just now, he doesn't even mention the previous war against Plegia once.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Emperor Hardin

[SSbardock84]

Ig I myself have never heard anyone say they hate or dislike Awakening. Idk, I think it's better than Fates in several aspects.

[Augestein]

i think the real issue with the plegia thing is that by the end of the day chrom's dad was entirely justified.

if he actually did kill them all then the plot of the game would not have happened, so in a round a bout way ylisse is still the "can do no wrong" country, even if the developers didn't intend on it.

you can't just go #NotAllPlegia then have the majority actually be terribly awful brainwashed servants to their religion, heck i'm hard pressed to say that Henry and Tharja aren't bad people either, just in their own ways that aren't tied into the major religion of Plegia.

but yeah if Plegia wasn't such a shithole and was shown to have good people then Ylisse wouldn't be super perfect and Chrom's dad would've been a horrible person for wanting to kill everyone for the sake of afew bad apples.

Well I mean, that doesn't make him right, it just means that Plegia as a country was massively underdeveloped. I mean, look at Daein, it's the "evil country," but you have characters like say Sothe, Jill, and Haar that are decent enough people , and some like Kilvas even understand the mentality of Daein for instance.

Genocide is pretty messed up regardless, so for it even to be possible to see it in a favorable light just shows how little things were written.

[Emperor Hardin]

Well I mean, that doesn't make him right, it just means that Plegia as a country was massively underdeveloped. I mean, look at Daein, it's the "evil country," but you have characters like say Sothe, Jill, and Haar that are decent enough people , and some like Kilvas even understand the mentality of Daein for instance.

Genocide is pretty messed up regardless, so for it even to be possible to see it in a favorable light just shows how little things were written.

Checking it, it doesn't say his goal was genocide against the Plegians, but to exterminate the Grimleal.

[BrightBow]

So this is the right topic this time...

Ehm, the thing is we can't possible say whether or not Chrom's father did a bad thing. Literally all we have to go on is Emmeryn and Chrom saying that it was a bad thing without actually elaborating on the matter. Considering that we lack any substantial information with which we could form our own opinion, Chrom and Emmeryn's judgement is everything we have on the matter. And the game actively undermines their judgement with the claims that the two of them are too kindhearted for their own good and that people like Gangrel are taking advantage of Emmeryn's kindness. So we are left with nothing.

But considering that:

- Gangrel never comes across like he holds a genuine grudge against Emmeryn or Ylisse to the point that he directly mocks Emmeryn for being too kind.

- that all named Plegians are portrayed as evil unless they are also Emmeryn worshippers

- that the feelings of the Plegian people receive zero development. So there is nothing that allows you to relate to them in some way

- that Emmeryn's speech did in no way acknowledge the pain and the injustice caused by Ylisse, let alone apologize for Ylisse's actions. (Seriously, even back when it was first brought up by Gangrel, all she said about it is that she "never denied Ylisse's wrongdoings." One hell of a contrast to Sanaki kneeling before the survivors of the Serenes massacre and begging for forgiveness. And she hasn't even been born when the genocide happened. But yeah, it's Emmeryn who truly deserves that Noble Peace Prize.)

- that said speech consisted of nothing more then telling the Plegians to stop being so butthurt, yet somehow turned the whole country into Emmeryn lovers.

- that the actual Plegia story basically revolves around trying to make the player feel attached to Emmeryn by constantly chilling her for supposedly being the best person ever and by having Gangrel act like a jerk towards her just because he can, before throwing her off the cliff and allow the player to avenge poor little Emmeryn-chan by killing the evil Gangrel

...I dare to say that the arc has a very thick subtext about the Plegian people being unjustified for having a grudge against Ylisse or Emmeryn. An completely emotional sub text of course, since we still don't know anything about what actually happened. But it most certainly doesn't push the idea that the Plegian people don't deserve having bad things happen to them, at least not unless they join the Emmeryn fan club.

Edited July 6, 2016 by BrightBow

[Sunwoo]

Brightbow, I completely agree with you on your post about Emmeryn. But would you agree with me that the bigger "symptom" of Emmeryn being a weak and selfish martyr is the "protagonist-centered morality" that the newer games seem to focus on rather than making compelling characters and situations?

[Emperor Hardin]

Continuing on with what BrightBow said, there isn't even one sympathetic Grimleal character.

Even Aversa was brainwashed against her will, and wouldn't have been if Chrom's dad had succeeded in killing the Grimleal.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

that feel when i got plegia and grimleal mixed up because there is literally no telling the two apart from each other in the story.

i honestly feel embarrassed, but its not like the game made an effort to go "hey not all plegian's worship grimleal, except they apparently do except for the two that join you"

[Dinar87]

It would've been cool to have a chapter where you perhaps side with some villagers in danger of being brainwashed into becoming part of the Grimleal from Validar's forces. That could've allowed for some interesting development of the people of Plegia. Who knows?

[TheWerdna]

I am probably in the minority here, but I kind of like the fact that Robin gets the spotlight and takes the focus away from Chrom, as it subverts the typical Fire Emblem formula.

You have Chrom, the literal archtype of the typical Lord. He is brave, charismatic, idealistic, prince of a nation, weilder of a magic sword. He is your entirely typical fantasy hero guy who fights in some wars against evil kingdoms and he and his friends go to stop the big bad from resurrecting and evil god. And then they fail and all die.

The bad future was literally the most generic Fire Emblem story possible and it ended in disaster. Here is subverted the usual formula, something it continues to do throughout.

Then comes the actual game, where the player takes the role of Robin. Instead of being the typical hero guy, Robin has far more in common with the best friend supporting character. He is smart, coolheaded, loyal, and completely supportive of his friends, but has some serious self worth issues. Instead of being the hero who has a heroic destiny to save the world, you are destined to be the one to destroy it. In any other game you would be the type of character Chrom is, but here it does sonething different. You don't play the typical hero: you play the guy who has to become the hero and defy his fate. And Robin taking the spotlight fits this, because we saw what happened when it was entirely Chrom's story: everyone died.

[Slyfox]

In the most basic terms, Awakening feels like it was trying to do what RD did, but with around half the amount of chapters and only one playable army (meaning no swapping between different groups of units). As a result, it got rushed and some stuff didn't make sense. And Emmeryn's death was stupid compared to, say Mikoto's in Fates (oh my god, that part gave me so many feels. Unlike Emmeryn's scenario).

I can't think of a single thing Mikoto did any better than Emmeryn.

At the very least, Mikoto could have done something like Corrin and try to convince both kingdoms to unite and fight Anankos, curse notwithstanding. I mean, Arete was in Nohr, right? No mention of the two working together? She does even less than Emmeryn, besides that emotion shield thing around Hoshido's borders, I guess.

Also, we know Mikoto far less than Emmeryn by the time she dies, and Corrin somehow reacts to a practical stranger dying by immediately going Super Saiyan, compared to the Awakening cast who basically went through the five stages of grief? (slight exaggeration but you get the point)

I felt some emotion in Emmeryn's death, not just from me but believable emotion from her siblings as well. Mikoto dying felt like Intelligent Systems were going through a checklist as fast as possible to give a reason to choose a side. I dunno, everything involving her felt hollow to me.

[TheSilentChloey]

I can't think of a single thing Mikoto did any better than Emmeryn.

At the very least, Mikoto could have done something like Corrin and try to convince both kingdoms to unite and fight Anankos, curse notwithstanding. I mean, Arete was in Nohr, right? No mention of the two working together? She does even less than Emmeryn, besides that emotion shield thing around Hoshido's borders, I guess.

Also, we know Mikoto far less than Emmeryn by the time she dies, and Corrin somehow reacts to a practical stranger dying by immediately going Super Saiyan, compared to the Awakening cast who basically went through the five stages of grief? (slight exaggeration but you get the point)

I felt some emotion in Emmeryn's death, not just from me but believable emotion from her siblings as well. Mikoto dying felt like Intelligent Systems were going through a checklist as fast as possible to give a reason to choose a side. I dunno, everything involving her felt hollow to me.

This is why I don't mind Awakening's story as much as I hate Fates'. Mikoto is just pathetic and you're expected to care about her in less than two chapters...maybe even three.

Sure Emmeryn isn't perfect either, but in Emmeryn's case it was the only way to end the war (in her mind at least). As well as the fact that you get a full seven chapters to get to know Emmeryn directly while she has at least a chapter where she's spoken about. That is a lot more than I can say for Mikoto.

So then why the fuck does Kamui/Corrin get so upset over someone he/she barely knows dying for him/her. Sure there would be some guilt but not to the extent that Fates wants the player to believe.

As for Awakening's story. I liked it. The characters are charming, likeable and there is a whole lot less fanservice in Awakening than Fates. The children characters were done right in Awakening. It could have been done better but for what it is the story is nice and I have fun going back and playing it.