Thane Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Type: Null and Silvally can't breed. Well, now I wish I wouldn't have been so hasty in settling for the Hasty nature. Now I really need to figure out how to reset his EV's. Good lord, the bad puns...too much Pokémon in such a short time is starting to affect me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Tapu Koko is probably the best offensive pokemon in the meta right now, but i don't think he's as 'loljustban" level as Pheromosa honestly Tapu Bulu is the only Tapu who'se terrain is worth building a team around since its so easy to create since its just.... generally useful. ATM i think the most likely ban is Landorus, Aegislash, and Pheromosa. Oh thank god. I can manage landorus but those other two are just ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 So... how are we all dealing with Zygarde >_> I thought I had a pretty good team going until I realized I couldn't think of a way to deal with both Zygarde and Charizard X/Y at the same time with the setup I have. Some random replay of the team doing exactly what it was supposed to: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-480278252 Now I know what you're thinking, but I only had 2 games with that squad and Pheromosa did literally nothing both times. Not only that, I've tentatively replaced it with Scarf Lando-T, but then there's that whole Zygarde thing so idk. I'm really at a loss with this monster, it's so insane that I can't picture a team without a dedicated answer, but that's so limiting, especially for playstyles other than Stall. Zygarde probably isn't that big of a problem for Stall I guess, but there's about a million other things running around right now that in turn smash Stall so I don't really know how anyone can deal with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Actually Stall got 6-0 by Zygarde 100% a lot of times. A very passive Stall build would loses to 6th mon Zygarde since they are completely helpess against either coild or dd variants. For defensive team Unaware Clefable and Weavile is the only real answer to that and Ice Beam Cune i guess. I kinda think Mantine Haze is one way to deal with it, but its kinda shaky on paper. One work around you can do is to use a Ground Resist who have SE move to hit it back since currently a lot of Z-100% set runs Mono Attacking Thousand Arrows That thing is really funny since some teams literally lose when you click DD and sub 2 times to activate 100%, and it covers Tapu Koko kinda well because some answer to Tapu Koko bricks against Zygarde, and Pheromosa is pretty much the only offensive answer that is faster than Tapu Koko For example 0+ Atk Marowak Shadow Bone vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 76-90 (21.2 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Complete Zygarde: 130-154 (22.6 - 26.8%) -- 30.7% chance to 4HKO This is regular Zygarde. So had you switch it on Marowak safely, its completely can do jackshit even more once it reach complete form Edited November 21, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 That's a very good point actually, I guess even stall is forced to run Unaware Clef at this point. I pretty much never use stall so show how much I know :p So right now I'm think that Tapu Bulu is a hard counter. With access to Taunt/Whirlwind/Swords Dance you can shut it down completely or even use it as setup fodder on less passive teams. For stall you could use something like Taunt/Whirlwind/Horn Leech or Wood Hammer/Nature's Madness and for more balanced builds you could go with like Sub/SD/Wood Hammer/Coverage. Still, I hope they just quickban this thing. It's basically a risk free mon, it says a lot that I have an entire team just named Zygarde + Filler. I haven't used it yet, but if I ever feel the need to rack up some easy points I just might lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Anyone have a Zygarde team they wouldn't mind me borrowing? I haven't had a chance to see this monster in action so I'm really curious. From my understanding, Thousand Arrows is bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Anyone have a Zygarde team they wouldn't mind me borrowing? I haven't had a chance to see this monster in action so I'm really curious. From my understanding, Thousand Arrows is bonkers. [spoiler=Zyggy Stardust Team]Zygarde @ Leftovers Ability: Power Construct EVs: 24 Atk / 252 SpD / 232 Spe Careful Nature - Thousand Arrows - Substitute - Dragon Dance - Extreme Speed Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite Ability: Technician EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD Impish Nature - Bullet Punch - Swords Dance - Roost - U-turn Heatran @ Grassium Z Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Solar Beam - Magma Storm - Stealth Rock - Earth Power Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Earthquake - U-turn - Stone Edge - Knock Off Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers Ability: Grassy Surge EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe Adamant Nature - Substitute - Swords Dance - Wood Hammer - Superpower Mantine @ Leftovers Ability: Water Absorb EVs: 232 HP / 236 Def / 16 SpD / 24 Spe Bold Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Toxic - Scald - Defog - Roost Max Sp.Def and 232 Spe on Zygarde to laugh off hits and outspeed most threats at +1. E-Speed for priority so Weavile can't revenge you after a boost. Bulky SD M-Scizor for more priority and to help deal with non Koko/Fini fairies. It also wrecks most Hail teams I've seen which is great for Zyggy. Heatran for Rocks and to lure in bulky waters with Magma Storm/Bloom Doom wombo combo. It's like Sunny Trapper Heatran from Gen 5 on crack. Landorus-T w/ Scarf to help with Charizard X/Y, as well as general speed control and U-Turn momentum. Sub SD Tapu Bulu to take advantage of opposing Zygarde, provide more passive recovery, and hit things insanely hard. It also helps a ton against rain in combination with. . . Phys. Def Mantine, your other Rain stop, defogger, and mixed tank with a good typing and reliable recovery. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Sweet! Thanks! That also gives me a good reason to try Bulu and Mantine out. I've been spending too much time with Tapu Koko. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Sweet! Thanks! That also gives me a good reason to try Bulu and Mantine out. I've been spending too much time with Tapu Koko. :P No problem. Better to use it now since I promise it'll be gone in the first wave of bans :p Forgot to mention, but those EVs on Bulu also allow you to outspeed stuff like standard Rotom, Tapu Fini, Defensive Lanorus-T, and other sort-of-fast but not likely to run speed mons that sit around that speed tier. Here's a pretty good game I just grabbed with it if anyone else wants to use it/see why Zygarde should be quickbanned like yesterday http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-480605742 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) That's a very good point actually, I guess even stall is forced to run Unaware Clef at this point. I pretty much never use stall so show how much I know :p So right now I'm think that Tapu Bulu is a hard counter. With access to Taunt/Whirlwind/Swords Dance you can shut it down completely or even use it as setup fodder on less passive teams. For stall you could use something like Taunt/Whirlwind/Horn Leech or Wood Hammer/Nature's Madness and for more balanced builds you could go with like Sub/SD/Wood Hammer/Coverage. Still, I hope they just quickban this thing. It's basically a risk free mon, it says a lot that I have an entire team just named Zygarde + Filler. I haven't used it yet, but if I ever feel the need to rack up some easy points I just might lol. i thought of Tapu Bulu but putting aside the fact that Bulu's damage to it is shaky(for Bulu vs Neutral standard) 35% min on Horn Leech, and Zygarde do learns Sludge Wave or Coil set Also iirc Thousand Arrows break through Grass Terrain debuff since its not EQ and Earth power? Edited November 22, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) i thought of Tapu Bulu but putting aside the fact that Bulu's damage to it is shaky(for Bulu vs Neutral standard) 35% min on Horn Leech, and Zygarde do learns Sludge Wave or Coil set Also iirc Thousand Arrows break through Grass Terrain debuff since its not EQ and Earth power? Grassy Terrain nerfs all ground moves I think, but Thousand Arrows is a pretty weird move so it's hard to say. Not to mention, are there even any other common ground moves besides these three? I guess there's like Bonemerang on Marowak and the tech Bulldoze. I have never seen Sludge Wave, but that sounds like a possibility if more people start running Bulu to counter it haha. Just one more reason it needs to go. I'm finding Scarf Landorus-T to be amazing at the moment. It outspeeds all these fast but relatively frail threats like Pheromosa, Greninja, and Tapu Koko and just bodies them due to their lack of bulk or super effective damage. It's also a decent check to Zard X/Y, though you definitely can't switch into Y. The fast U-Turn is also really nice, and you can pair it with something like M-Sciz to form a Fast/Slow turn core to pretty good effect. Not even to mention Intimidate being as nice as ever. I could actually see a surge in it's usage, at least until all these threats are gone and the defensive set doesn't find itself checked by literally everything. Also Alolan Marowak is way too good right now. I decided to drop Shadow Bone for Rocks and it's a hilariously good support mon with Rocks + Will-o and Flare Blitz to counter steels and just hit things hard in general. I actually think this thing might stay OU if it continues to be this good, but that first wave of bans will be the decider. To be fair though while it loses its use against the likes of Genesect and Phero, it will also more than likely lose two things that annoy it in Aegislash and especially Zygarde. Edited November 22, 2016 by Deltre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Honestly i find the reason people didn't run Lando T much lately is because Landorus I is such a ridiculous pokemon. Basically takes everything people say about Xurkitree except Tail Glow, and give it 101 speed, decent all around stats, and godlike typing and you get Landorus Alowak with Lightningrod is surprisingly good. I'm surprised bank meta did not run the good ol combo of "Special Attacker + Tyranitar' to deal with it since removing Marow is sometimes the one thing you need for Tapu Koko to sweep on the common MaroTine core since it seems so solid right now, although in a wrong move, Tyranitar would become Zygarde food so idk Edited November 22, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Reading the Smogon Wishiwashi discussion, and I am thinking to myself would a wishiwashi choice band/specs work well? I mean you could run something like Wishiwashi - Choice band Adamant/Brave 252 HP, 252 (sp.) att, 4 (?) - EQ - Waterfall - Return - U-turn A modest set might work, but it would be lack luster due to lack of special moves Also I am glad to hear Marowak seems to be getting some love (and is a good answer to some pokemon) Edited November 22, 2016 by SlayerX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) I'm currently planning out my VGC 2017 team. Lycanroc Midnight No Guard Life Orb Jolly 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Swords Dance, Protect This is purely for offensive needs. It's a nice Salamence slayer, since it OHKOs (If Adamant, Jolly or otherwise is 81% OHKO) with Stone Edge + Life Orb, and outspeeds a Adamant until 200 EVs. 200+ EVs will outspeed it though. Though, this is subject to change if I find a better option. Toxapex Merciless Black Sludge Calm 252 HP, rest split between Defense, Special Defense and Special Attack, focus on SpD and low on SpA Toxic, Venoshock, Recover, Scald/Baneful Bunker This is not only a Tapu Bulu counter, it's also a massive wall and can Toxic most things. I chose to run Venoshock due to higher damage with Toxic, plus it runs well with Scald liking the higher Special Attack. I'm thinking of dropping Scald for Baneful Bunker, as a Protect is nice, plus burning things with this set isn't the best. I chose to run more Special Defense than Defense since Tapu Koko + Alolan Raichu will be everywhere, and I need a little more bulk against them. Starmie Natural Cure Light Clay Timid 252 HP, 4 Special Defense, 252 Speed Spotlight, Light Screen, Reflect, Protect I really like this idea. It's the fastest Pokemon with Spotlight, for one, and it also works as a fast Dual Screener. Protect is run since I didn't really know what else to put, and it's not bulky enough imo for Recover. Mudsdale Stamina Assault Vest Cafeful (+SpD, -SpA) 100 HP, 108 Attack, 48 Defense, 252 Special Defense Close Combat, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Rock Slide This set plays really well off of Spotlight thanks to Stamina. Shame it's only recovery is Rest, otherwise it'd be really good. Tapu Lele Psychic Surge Terrain Extender/Tapunium Z Modest 148 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 108 Special Defense Moonblast, Psychic/Psyshock, Nature's Madness/Something else, Thunderbolt/Something else This is my counter to Electric and Grassy Terrain from Tapu Koko and Bulu. Nature's Madness is a leftover from running Tapunium Z, which is actually still an option since I only want Psychic Terrain to deal with the other Terrains. 50% (75% on Z-Move) on any 'mon is really helpful. T-Bolt could be replaced with some other coverage move like Energy Ball or Shadow Ball. The last member is a WIP, and I'm thinking about Silvally, Fighting or Steel, and Arcanine. Suggestions would be appreciated. Edited November 22, 2016 by Emerson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Dang, they banned Power Construct already. This does still mean you can use 50% Zygarde and 10% Zygarde. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 RIP my free win. Now you need to play with skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) I'm fairly certain that it's just a ban on Power Construct, so Zyggy-10 and 50 should be okay still. I still think Zygarde-50 will be viable, since Thousand Arrows as a move is so so good being that literally nothing is immune to it. I do think that SubCoil will be far and away the better set now though, although that could just be my early X/Y UU traumatic memories speaking. Zygarde-10 is ass. Thousand Arrows ain't saving this boy. Maybe if it got SD that would be something, but sadly that's not the case. Edited November 22, 2016 by Deltre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) So this is my new team Ludicolo @ Leftovers Ability: Swift Swim EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpA / 60 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Leech Seed - Giga Drain - Ice Beam - Scald Zebstrika @ Life Orb Ability: Lightning Rod EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def - Volt Switch - Hidden Power [ice] - Thunder Wave - Overheat Suicune @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Careful Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Ice Beam - Scald - Reflect - Roar Pelipper @ Leftovers Ability: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Roost - Defog - Scald - Hurricane Galvantula @ Focus Sash Ability: Compound Eyes EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Energy Ball - Volt Switch - Sticky Web - Bug Buzz Golisopod @ Life Orb Ability: Emergency Exit EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 56 Def / 4 SpD Adamant Nature - First Impression - Liquidation - Leech Life - Sucker Punch http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-481037238 Here's another replay. A few crits and misses nearly fucked me over, but I pulled through. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7pokebankou-481063049 Edited November 22, 2016 by UNLEASH IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 How would you guys use Nihilego? Since I've only got one and it's my favorite Ultra Beast, I want to train it to perfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Use it as hazard support. It's a fast user of both Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I don't pay a ton of attention to the meta but is it just me or is a large chunk of the Aloladex rated pretty low on the competitive tier list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I don't pay a ton of attention to the meta but is it just me or is a large chunk of the Aloladex rated pretty low on the competitive tier list The Ultra Beasts, Tapus and Magearna are the best Aloladex Pokemon and they're all legendaries. But they're all really good. In terms of the normal plebian Pokemon, the only one people are really liking from Aloladex is Toxapex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Alolan-Marowak is actually amazing right now too. It'll probably drop but I don't see it dropping all the way to NU or anything too crazy, since Ghost/Fire is pretty cool as a typing and it actually has the bulk to take advantage of it. Alolan Ninetales is probably UU, Snow Warning + Aurora Veil is a pretty insane combination on further consideration, and it would give UU a special Ice Type worth caring about. He also can go with a Nasty Plot set if that's your thing since Ice/Fairy is awesome offensivesly and 109 Speed is great. Rocks weakness + Sciz really hurts his OU viability in my eyes, however. Kommo-o might be OU when Move Tutors come out and it hopefully gets some better Fighting Stab (looking at you, Drain Punch). Pyukumuku is actually pretty hilarious when you think about, and with its support movepool it will be more than usable in OU, though I doubt it will end up there. I thought Minior was trash because Shell Smash is actually not that good, but I just now realized that we got Psychic Terrain + Terrain Extender this generation so now I'm actually a little bit scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) The Ultra Beasts, Tapus and Magearna are the best Aloladex Pokemon and they're all legendaries. But they're all really good. In terms of the normal plebian Pokemon, the only one people are really liking from Aloladex is Toxapex. Actually, I've heard a lot people saying that Bewear has OU potential.Which I can agree, because Bewear is hella bulky. Edited November 22, 2016 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) The meta just isn't worth playing until Pheromosa got banned imo I think the full list of mon that is good and new is like Really good: Celesteela Pheromosa Tapu Koko Tapu Lele Tapu Fini Tapu Bulu Magearna Buzzhole Toxapex Lightningrod Alolan Marowak OK: Sylvally Alolan Ninetales Kommo-O Necrozma Guzzlord Kartana Xurkitree Somewhat OK: Crabrawler Incineroar with Intimidate in the future Lycanroc Day Bewear Bewear is kinda funny. Its basically Conkeldurr x Lando hybrid that hits super hard, but it lacking Drain Punch sucked and its so slow, that a lot of Special Wallbreaker outright destroyed it, but if your opponent is full of Physical threats, it can sometimes 6-0 your opponent. I kinda like Buzzhole better though since they basically do the exact same thing Thats like a total of 10-ish good pokemon, 9 with stuff getting banned to Ubers, which is actually quite good and almost as high as BW Edited November 23, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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