ace attorney Best and Worst Ace Attorney Case ever made

[Ema Skye]

Lack of personality in his characters, repeating or downright copying ideas for characters, cases and subplots and constantly failing to execute his grandiose plots are reasons to like his writing?

His characters are funny and make a degree of sense, which is all I ask for in Ace Attorney.

If the character, case and subplots are good, it doesn't matter to me if they've been used before because it's a good thing to use again.

I'm not sure how you think the plots aren't executed.

Every reason you dislike SoJ is a reason why I think SoJ is the best game. I'm just not big on Takumi's writing because it's not as entertaining.

[Res]

Dammit. Ga'ran was a good villain, too, until it was decided that she didn't need subtlety. Talk about going from your own character to gender swapped Manfred Von Karma.

Seriously, so ridiculous.

I just finished SoJ and best and worst case...ugh, I don't think I could say.

I agree with a lot of Thane's criticisms and yet I loved SoJ case 5 anyway. Apollo's backstory wasn't wholly convincing and I don't like how it contradicted AJ, but I liked the explanation of what happened to Apollo's father, and I appreciate having such a detailed background revealed for my favourite character. Case 5 also tidied up a lot of my issues with cases 1 and 3 and the kingdom of Kuhr'ain as a whole (I especially liked Rayfa and Ahlbi in case 5).

And... I do think there are some definite improvements upon the earlier games. I've liked the witnesses, prosecutors and side-characters a lot better in the last 3 games. I was never fond of Buttz, Oldbag, the Von Karmas, etc. Some of the repeated elements, while unoriginal, do feel improved to me. And while T&T was everything I wanted in a game, when I think about it, I never found Phoenix's own backstory particularly compelling/convincing.

So right now, at least while I'm riding the highs of having completed this game, 6-5 is up near the top for me. Apollo is just amazing, and he kicked ass in this case.

[blah the Prussian]

I will say this: I actually like Rayfa. She develops believably throughout the game, despite being somewhat sidelined in favor of Nahyuta, who wasn't as compelling to me by a long shot. Although this isn't really saying that much, it's a toss up between her and Blackquill for best written character of the new games.

[Res]

I will say this: I actually like Rayfa. She develops believably throughout the game, despite being somewhat sidelined in favor of Nahyuta, who wasn't as compelling to me by a long shot.

Absolutely agree; and she also felt very believable as a 14 yo, too.

[MCProductions]

Rayfa is literally the only Khurainite I actually liked, tho Sahdmadi was interesting at least, if only because of his antics with Ema.

[Water Mage]

Absolutely agree; and she also felt very believable as a 14 yo, too.

That's what I like about her too. She's a rather realistic portrayal of a 14 year old in a position of power.

Some say she's a jerk to Phoenix, but after being taught her entire life that lawyers are evil, her opinion isn't going to change in a day, just because of specific lawyer is a good guy.

Besides, the fact that she cooperates with Phoenix, despite disliking him, show that she's a very fair person.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Water Mage

[Jave]

I'm saving making a longer review until I play and finish the DLC case which comes out tomorrow, so don't put the game down just yet!

I'll quickly mention that Rayfa and Datz were my favorite new characters. The former because her development is handled really well and is believable, and the latter because I think they really nailed the "Comedic Yet Still a Bit Serious" archetype I feel they were going for him. Great animations on both of them too. I feel this is an aspect the series has only improved on, making great use of higher production values and system capabilities (unlike a certain other visual novel series who tried to achieve a lot more than it could handle in its final entry).

[blah the Prussian]

Ugh, unfortunately I didn't like Datz. I get what they were trying to do, but he came off as much more of an annoying asshole rather than a comedic sidekick. I mean, in case 5 he publically throws around the Dragons secret weapon on innocent bystanders apparently for his amusement. That isn't funny, it's stupid. He frankly didn't sell me on being the hardened veteran paratrooper he was cracked up to be.

[Rapier]

Ngl I love Yamazaki's writing and I know I'm not the only one.

I've read your post on the "issues" and those are the reasons why people like his writing.

I like Yamazaki's writing but I do recognize he's got flaws (just like Shu Takumi, by the way). Ironically, he seems to exceed on areas where the former writer fails, and vice-versa. For example, Shu is good at writing climaxes and ending stories, while Yamazaki's stories tend to not live up to the hype when it reaches the climax (see DD and AAI2). Meanwhile, Yamazaki is good at writing mid game cases that actually serve as a link to the rest of the game's story, instead of being a filler like Shu's case 3s, so they feel more important and turn out to be more enjoyable.

Yamazaki's cases are also more straightforward than Shu Takumi's (like 6-2. No need to expose how the magic trick was done, no need to watch the magic show on tape a thousand times, no need for a investigation day 2), whose cases are usually convoluted (good for climaxes, bad for cases like 2-3, 3-3, 4-2 and 4-3, which just drag and are boring).

[Ema Skye]

So Turnabout Time Traveler is out.

Feels like a nostalgia cash-in so far.

[Etrurian emperor]

I just completed the game and I'm not entirely sure where I stand with Spirit of Justice.

Its certainly a good game that deserves to stand with the other games in the series and has a lot of things going for it. The puns are fantastic, Rayfa is a tsundere I don't find incredibly grating and the main villain is entertaining. Some things are even a peak of the series. Case 2 had one of the best AA villains out there and on top of the twists and turns case 3 also nicely defied some series conventions. Some things are a bit of a downgrade but are pulled off well enough that I can't fault the game for it. Nayuta isn't as good or over the top as some other prosecutors but he's a perfectly fine, even good character to me and the low point of case 4 required Simon Blackquil to carry it, which he proceeds to go do very well.

What makes me unsure about the game is that all those things revolve around a contrived twist that seems to be there mostly because it was convenient for the writers. I can't be the only one who feels the Apollo twist just doesn't feel natural. Rather then expand upon a popular character in a way they that would require more effort they just shove a new backstory on him and make him the focus of a story where he doesn't belong.

The twist never won me over but clear attempts were made for it to win players over. The other important person involved in the twist is basically turned into a superhuman. I can see why that person and his relation with Apollo would be appreciated by some people but every time their relation came up and every time that person was proven to be a superhuman I was just reminded on how ridiculous the premise is.

Considering the big final is all about the Apollo twist it does end up hurting the game for me.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Etrurian emperor

[blah the Prussian]

I think that the last case has one glaring flaw that no one has brought up yet:

They CRIMINALLY underuse Amara. Seriously, she just exists to make the audience think that she's the killer instead of Ga'ran (yeah, you really had me going there, game) and basically nothing else. Her relationship with Rayfa isn't explored much at all (there isn't even a scene of the two being reunited and Amara finally getting to treat her daughter as her daughter) and she disappears from the entire damn story after Ga'ran has her shot. Jesus, Joker in Suicide Squad looks at her to put what happened to him into perspective! Also, why exactly wasn't she made Queen after Ga'ran was outed as illegitimate? There is no reason why she shouldn't be restored to the throne. Yamasaki seems to think that just because a monarch is dethroned once that they can never be monarch again; this is not the case. Just look at the example of King Sianouk of Cambodia, who... alright, I'll stop. Point being, Amara is probably the biggest case of wasted potential in this entire game.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I agree. Amara has amazing animations, but the character is wasted. Both she and Nahyuta suffer from being kinda pushover-y whose blind compliance isn't really that believable, but yeah Amara in particular needed more interactions. Loved her animations on the stand though.

I also completed the game today. I think it's one of the weaker games in the series overall but still good, and certainly far above Apollo Justice. I'd probably rank the cases as 5 > 4 > 2 > 3 > 1, with a notable gap between 2 and 3. None of them are among the best cases in the series, but none are among the worst either.

1 is definitely the worst, even though I liked Gaspen Payne in it a lot. (Which says something because I didn't like him in DD.) The case itself is dull even for a first case.

2 is very solid. Not an all-time great case and certainly some aspects of it pushed belief but fun. Glad to see Trucy relevant again for the first time since AJ.

3 is... I dunno, kinda weak. I think the game wants me to have more sympathy for the culprit(s) than I do. The Anon Imus testimony may also be the biggest waste of time in the series.

4 is good ol'-fashioned fun, I felt like I was playing one of those great midgame cases from the original trilogy for a moment there. Even if localising that one must have been weird and the end product is awkward.

5 has contrivances everywhere and the first investigation day is bad but overall is pretty satisfying anyway; it reminds me a lot of 3-5 in that it's great fun but doesn't really hold up narratively if you stop to think about it.

Sadhmadhi was a weak character, probably one of my least favourite prosecutors in a while. Rayfa was cool though. The game definitely suffers from a lack of compelling new major characters, though, more than almost any other game in the series. Even Apollo Justice, which I consider by far the worst game in the series, I will give credit for introducing some cool new characters. This game did have some fun case-specific characters, though, especially in cases 4 and 5.

Maya was weirdly underused, mostly just turned into a damsel and used as a plot device.

Seances are great. Finding contradictions in them felt fresh and a lot of fun.

[Sylphid]

Finally finished the game as well. It took longer than I expected due to some other matters.

Overall I enjoyed the game, though it does have its fair share of issues. Khura'in as a whole being probably the biggest one due to how ridiculous it can get with the whole "anything goes" mentality for fictional law. I really liked Khura'in aestetically though, and I loved the puns in Khura'inese names.

I also didn't enjoy the the massive hate the player side was getting early on. I'm not sure if it toned down later or I just got used to it, but it bothered me the most in first two cases.

While I enjoyed a lot of the characters, I found all of the main characters being pretty much at their lowest. Phoenix felt like the bumbling idiot he might have been in the first game despite having years of experience by now, same happened with Athena after bein fairly competent in Dual Destinies. And Apollo

got some new, contrived backstory which felt inconsistent with what we knew about him before. He also got written out of future games, apparently?

Rayfa was the highlight character for me, and while prosecutor Sad Monk had some okay backstory, his character was pretty bland.

Case 1 was a decent prologue case once the Khura'in exposition was done with, but said exposition took way too long. I also take personal issue with how gleefully pretty much everyone (Payne especially, though I never liked the Paynes) accusing a 9-year-old of murder (and presumably wanting for his execution?). The culprit here was pretty fun.

Case 2 was my favorite case in the game, though I wish it had had less of that player side hate (lawyer hate changing to magician hate wasn't exactly the break I needed after case 1). It had some nice twists I wasn't expecting. Finally, I found the way Trucy's magic trick was written to fit the case instead of working as a magic show kind of annoying. To be more specific

The whole thrusting the sword into the box makes no sense really. By the time Trucy thrusts the sword into the box, audience knows no one's in there so why do it? So that she can be suspected of murder. Why open the box when the audience can clearly see the person who went inside already got out? So the body can be found. Why did she need change the real sword to a rubber one before thrusting it to a box that should have been empty? So that she can be proven innocent.

That said I really liked Trucy having a center stage in 6-2 and how the narrative flowed. The supporting cast was also pretty enjoyable in my opinion.

Case 3... Is a weird one. I can see what the writer was going for here, and can kind of see the logic behind the case. But

Honestly the high priest and his wife would have needed more time in the limelight if I was supposed to sympathize with them. As is I can understand why they did what they did, but that doesn't make me like them one bit, despite the game wanting me to like them. Or at least the wife. Points for the suicide twist though, I really wasn't expecting that one (Thought the wife was the killer until the very end).

Also, the amnesiac witness really was a true waste of time. I'm sure there would have been better ways to introduce the character than that. Also, the case was a tad too long and day 2 shouldn't have logically happened.

Case 4 was fun, even if mostly because I absolutely enjoyed the Japanese theme in it, and the localization was hilariously awkward at times. The case itself was solid, but I think it was a bit too short. Investigation period to search for evidence on your own and discover motives was sorely needed in my opinion. For negatives, the culprit was the weakest in the game, Geiru's design was really quite stupid and Athena was a bit too incompetent after all she did in Dual Destinies.

Case 5, day 1 was... Interesting, to say the least. I liked Sarge, otherwise it was pretty bad.

Day 2, which really should have been a separate case 6 if you ask me, was overall enjoyable though the story behind was a bit too much and some of the details don't really hold if you think too much about them. Also like case 3, it was too long, I think another investigation day would have helped there.

There's really too much to say about this case so I'll list few that first pop to mind

- The twist with Dhurke being dead all along was great one. I was expecting him to die at the end, not that he was dead already.

- Garan's prosecutor outfit was so in-your-face evil it blew away any suspension on the real killer. Also I find it jarring how she changed from fairly competent and polite ruler to an evil witch tyrant with her outift. (Yes I preferred pre-trial Garan, both for her character and outfit). Dhurke (I think) calling Garan her Maleficence was hilarious though, and I'll give Garan credit for rocking the evil witch look pretty well.

- The way Garan got away with some outrageous stuff while her subjects were watching was stupid, as was her staying in the trial for "reasons". She displayed enough power she could have won by snapping her fingers, but didn't because she didn't feel like it, or something.

- I overall liked Amara, but found her criminally underused. Also the whole thing about her helping out of free will or being forced to do so felt pretty inconsistent. I almost started doubting my Garan = killer opinion with her.

Despite its shortcomings, case 5 felt pretty satisfying in the end.