ace attorney Best and Worst Ace Attorney Case ever made

[Thane]

Yes, 6-4 bothers a lot of people for that reason. But then it ends up being a decent standalone despite having the least popular of Wright's attorneys on the case...

But 6-5's length is so long, I suppose this was meant to be a break before something like a 10+ hour grand finale. Though the timeframe of 6-4 squeezed between 6-3 and 6-5 is suspect... I kind of wish Nahyuta wasn't the prosecutor on the case despite him probably having some of his best comedy lines in this case. Because AA takes place in America, compared to Gyakuten Saiban's Japan, Nahyuta's jetlag must be insane. I maybe would have liked to see Klavier on a case since he only has had minor cameos since AA4. When everyone is so down on the typical angsty and cruel prosecutors, Klavier would be refreshing to see.

Pretty sure 6-4 is a giant middle finger to the Western fans saying "try to explain this to Americans!"

I'm glad to hear he'll have some good lines, because up until now he's been completely unremarkable and frankly just annoying. I'll have a look at 6-4 later today, but I don't have the highest expectations. With any luck the finale will indeed be great.

I'm reserving judgement on her until I see how she is in the last case. If she's had it reversed then I'll dislike her outright, which will be a shame. However if she legitimately has changed... it will be a case of a rough initial run, but pulling through in the end.

It's common for certain archetypes or roles to start out as assholes since it makes any character development more obvious. However, that doesn't mean I'll excuse any and all flaws she had before, and it doesn't magically make her role in 6-3 better.

[blah the Prussian]

It's common for certain archetypes or roles to start out as assholes since it makes any character development more obvious. However, that doesn't mean I'll excuse any and all flaws she had before, and it doesn't magically make her role in 6-3 better.

Oh, of course not, but Im saying it remains to be seen the extent to which her character development taking too long is a flaw in the writing.

Edit: Probably the biggest thing I agree with you about is that the reaction of Phoenix and Maya was awful. It reminded me of IMO the worst moment in Dual Destinies; when Phoenix treats Aura Blackquill cordially despite the fact that she KIDNAPPED HIS DAUGHTER. Its an instance of the main characters reacting in the same way as the audience despite it not making sense.

Edited September 19, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Thane]

[spoiler=My scattered thoughts on 6-4]What a relief, no Khura'in or bloated cast, and look, the quality of the case improves considerably. It's almost as if adding unnecessary bullshit to a story dilutes the quality. Who would've thought, huh, Yamazaki?

Let's start with the obvious: Simon was great. His interactions with Athena were on point, and I laughed out loud at a few of his remarks, especially when he was forced to treat everone to manju. This further proves just how badly Dual Destinies messed up when he and Athena hardly even talked to each other outside of the courtroom, yet that was the entire core of the game (which wasn't mentioned by Athena until 5-5 to keep the suspense up. Ugh, Dual Destinies...)

While it felt off with a filler case, especially one headed by Athena, it felt so refreshing to not have to deal with the awful bullshit of 6-3 that it felt like a welcome change. I can't say I was too fond of the rakugo premise, which seems like a deliberate middle finger to the localization team in the West, but it could've been much worse - it could've been a contrived bullshit case in a bullshit country.

Believe it or not, but I actually knew Geiru was the killer once she left so soon with such few sprites. Why, you may ask? Because I knew her breasts would pop in a breakdown.

Speaking of her, she and Uendo were pretty mediocre, but they had a few good lines, and in such an unambitious case, I didn't expect much more. I'll forget they were ever in the game soon, but they served their purpose.

Sadhmadhi remains completely toothless, boring and repetitive, and we have yet to be given a single reason to actually care about him. 6-5 has a lot of things to do if it is to turn my feelings of him and to an extent the entire game around.

I feel like certain lines are repeated all the time. Simon kept asking Athena if she'd give up, Sadmadhi keeps saying let go and move on, and the gallery keeps saying whatever's necessary to try and add tension to the courtroom, which falls flat.

That's not the only thing that's repeated: Betty and Bonny were a combination of Iris and Dahlia and Ini and Mimi, while Geiru was anoher April May. I realize certain traits are bound to be repeated in a series with so many characters, but the similarities feel a bit too noticeable with few things added to make them feel fresh and different.

Overall, an unambitious case but a welcome breather with some good back and forths, especially between Athena and Simon, which, again, further underlines just how badly Dual Destinie screwed up with their lack of interactions. It'll fall into obscurity in my mind barring a few lines, but it wasn't as offensively bad as 6-3.

Time to see how the game will decide to finish all these subplots, and if it'll turn my opinion of it as a whole around or if it'll crash and burn like 5-5 in a typical Yamazaki fashion.

Oh, of course not, but Im saying it remains to be seen the extent to which her character development taking too long is a flaw in the writing.

It'll really, really surprise me if it isn't. She's giving me Xander vibes, man.

Edit: Probably the biggest thing I agree with you about is that the reaction of Phoenix and Maya was awful. It reminded me of IMO the worst moment in Dual Destinies; when Phoenix treats Aura Blackquill cordially despite the fact that she KIDNAPPED HIS DAUGHTER. Its an instance of the main characters reacting in the same way as the audience despite it not making sense.

Yupp, pretty much. It felt so artificial. What's worse, regarding your example, we've already seen how Phoenix reacts to his loved ones getting kidnapped, and he almost passed out last time - here he just shrugged it off and worried more about Athena - of course, everyone in that game seems absolutely enchanted by her, aside from the ones we're not supposed to like.

Phoenix and Maya almost getting killed because of two other people deciding to pin the blame on/conceal the truth from them should've provoked something more than...however they reacted. Phoenix also shouldn't have felt such sympathy for Rayfa when she failed in the courtroom - yeah yeah I don't like her, but neither should Phoenix at that point, considering how she's been actively trying and hoping for his life to get messed up and then actually end.

Edit: [spoiler=First impression of 6-5]So Dhurke just shows up in their office without warning after some clumsy exposition?

He's dead.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Thane

[blah the Prussian]

Xander? Oh god, Xander is practically the Godwin's law of writing at this point. No, she would be like Xander if the audience was supposed to think that she was the hero and that defense attorneys are evil, or whatever. You can say what you want about how her flaws make her annoying, to they are recognized as that.

And yeah, the thought of pinning the crime on someone completely innocent to protect your guilty wife is too much. He should have confessed to the crime himself; he was going to die anyway. Actually, yeah, the more that I think of it the more framing Maya makes NO SENSE for what he could have done in his situation. After he finds out what happens, he confesses. The divination seance would t show the face of the killer, so he can just say it was him. Then, he gets executed, which would have happened anyway, and there would be no need for anyone innocent to get hurt. I actually agree with you now; this case unfortunately sucks, and that's because the killer's motivations make no damn sense.

Edited September 19, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Thane]

Xander? Oh god, Xander is practically the Godwin's law of writing at this point. No, she would be like Xander if the audience was supposed to think that she was the hero and that defense attorneys are evil, or whatever. You can say what you want about how her flaws make her annoying, to they are recognized as that.

Haha, I mostly meant the late turn after getting a literal evil monologue telling her everything she needs to hear, like her father complaining about how annoying it is to approve of all those death warrants. Not even Yamazaki would write a character as bad as Xander. He's the kind of guy who'd come up with Valla though...

And yeah, the thought of pinning the crime on someone completely innocent to protect your guilty wife is too much. He should have confessed to the crime himself; he was going to die anyway. Actually, yeah, the more that I think of it the more framing Maya makes NO SENSE for what he could have done in his situation.

Pretty much. The entire foundation of the case is shaky at best, and it just becomes more apparent the longer it goes on.

[blah the Prussian]

Haha, I mostly meant the late turn after getting a literal evil monologue telling her everything she needs to hear, like her father complaining about how annoying it is to approve of all those death warrants. Not even Yamazaki would write a character as bad as Xander. He's the kind of guy who'd come up with Valla though...

Pretty much. The entire foundation of the case is shaky at best, and it just becomes more apparent the longer it goes on.

Add to that her father being so mustache twirlingly evil he constantly takes great and public joy in forging evidence and constantly threatens her with death if she doesn't use her seances against people who he wants dead. Then have him massacre entire villages. Then have him appoint evil advisors everywhere.

Then, when Phoenix asks her about it, the response is "well, he used to be good!"

Yeah, it could be worse. TBH one case isn't too bad in terms of time it takes for character development. She's had a grand total of three seances be proven false, unless I'm counting wrong. Stack that up against a lifetime of being told she's never wrong. I'm not saying it doesn't make for frustrating writing, but it's hardly unrealistic. Though maybe it's a mistake ever using that word in relation to a Phoenix Wright game...

Edit: Also, Serenes's Law strikes again.

Edited September 19, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Jave]

Okay, after finishing AA6, I can redo my tier list of cases.

God Tier

2-4, Farewell, My Turnabout

Top Tier

6-5, Turnabout Revolution

6-3, The Rite of Turnabout

1-5, Rise From The Ashes

3-4, Turnabout Beginnings

1-4, Turnabout Goodbyes

High Tier

3-5, Bridge to the Turnabout

6-2, The Magical Turnabout

3-2, The Stolen Turnabout

4-4, Turnabout Succession

5-1, Turnabout Countdown

3-1, Turnabout Memories

5-3, Turnabout Academy

Middle Tier

6-1, The Foreign Turnabout

6-4, Turnabout Storyteller

4-1, Turnabout Trump

5-D, Turnabout Reclaimed

1-1, The First Turnabout

3-3, Recipe for Turnabout

1-2, Turnabout Sisters

1-3, Turnabout Samurai

2-2, Reunion, and Turnabout

2-3, Turnabout Big Top

2-1, The Lost Turnabout

4-2, Turnabout Corner

5-4/5-5, Cosmic Turnabout/Turnabout for Tomorrow

Low Tier

5-2, The Monstrous Turnabout

Bottom Tier

4-3, Turnabout Serenade

5-2 is boring as all hell, and 4-3 is the only case in the series I just feel has way too much bullshit going on that I just can't enjoy it. Everything else is fantastic or has enough flaws that I can accept.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Jave

[Sylphid]

And yeah, the thought of pinning the crime on someone completely innocent to protect your guilty wife is too much. He should have confessed to the crime himself; he was going to die anyway. Actually, yeah, the more that I think of it the more framing Maya makes NO SENSE for what he could have done in his situation. After he finds out what happens, he confesses. The divination seance would t show the face of the killer, so he can just say it was him. Then, he gets executed, which would have happened anyway, and there would be no need for anyone innocent to get hurt. I actually agree with you now; this case unfortunately sucks, and that's because the killer's motivations make no damn sense.

You might want to spoiler that. I hadn't finished that case yet...

[blah the Prussian]

You might want to spoiler that. I hadn't finished that case yet...

Ah crap, I'm sorry. I thought I had made it vague enough, but apparently not. It's edited now.

[Retyl]

.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Retyl

[Thane]

Edit: Also, Serenes's Law strikes again.

Well this is a Fire Emblem forum; most of us have played Fates, so it's easy to draw parallels.

Because you don't seem to think so highly of Yamazaki, Thane, what did you think about Gyakuten Kenji 2? Just wondering.

I've only watched a translated walkthrough of it, so I have not played it myself. However, I remember not likng it at all. The common problems of his writing style are all there: attempts at a grandiose plots, time skips/time jumps (absent in Spirit of Justice, thankfully), lackluster villains, cheap plot twists that are there for the sake of being plot twists, and of course his most glaring problem: a bloated cast. Seriously, list all of the characters that are involved in AI 2-5, and I'm sure it'll be longer than any case in the series, spin-off or otherwise, and it all boils down to people just cheering for Edgeworth as he uses his awesome logic skills to defeat the baddies.

In short, while my memories are a bit hazy, what I do remember is thoroughly unimpressive. This is without even talking about how Kay has no business being in the game or how those two 'antagonist' prosecutors are nothing short of obnoxious.

Judging by what I've seen of 6-5 so far, while I absolutely love some ideas, it seems as if it'll indeed be hampered by a lot of the problems with Yamazaki's writing, especially his tendency to cram as much shit into a case as he can.

[Augestein]

Well this is a Fire Emblem forum; most of us have played Fates, so it's easy to draw parallels.

I've only watched a translated walkthrough of it, so I have not played it myself. However, I remember not likng it at all. The common problems of his writing style are all there: attempts at a grandiose plots, time skips/time jumps (absent in Spirit of Justice, thankfully), lackluster villains, cheap plot twists that are there for the sake of being plot twists, and of course his most glaring problem: a bloated cast. Seriously, list all of the characters that are involved in AI 2-5, and I'm sure it'll be longer than any case in the series, spin-off or otherwise, and it all boils down to people just cheering for Edgeworth as he uses his awesome logic skills to defeat the baddies.

In short, while my memories are a bit hazy, what I do remember is thoroughly unimpressive. This is without even talking about how Kay has no business being in the game or how those two 'antagonist' prosecutors are nothing short of obnoxious.

Judging by what I've seen of 6-5 so far, while I absolutely love some ideas, it seems as if it'll indeed be hampered by a lot of the problems with Yamazaki's writing, especially his tendency to cram as much shit into a case as he can.

I hate how it seems like you and I have similar opinions on things for Ace Attorney with Dual Destinies and pretty much all of the Yamazaki writing ones, because it means I might not be playing SoJ. I could not finish AAI, and I thought I was losing my mind for a minute until I looked up and found that it was actually someone else.

[Sasori]

So I just finished the first day of case 5. It has an interesting premise, but I don't think this part was as good as it could have been

Edit: spoiler did't work. Will do my thoughts on the day 1 of case 5 later

Edited September 20, 2016 by Sasori

[Thane]

So I just finished the first day of case 5. It has an interesting premise, but I don't think this part was as good as it could have been

I've got more than a few colorful words ready for that part, but I'll withhold my judgement until I'm done with the whole case.

I believe this title sums up my thoughts on Yamazaki so far, however.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Thane

[Sasori]

Case 5: Day 1

An Apollo vs Phoenix trial is a good idea. It shows Apollo's growth and it could serve as a good boss battle...it did not in this case since Phoenix was given absolutely nothing to work with. The culprit was easy to spot and his testomony was very weak. There where very little twists and turns and Phoenix just did't come out looking good as an opponent. I thought it was one of the easiest times I had in court. I know Ashiton is a bit of a joke, but I think him being just a bit more competent would have given some more weight to the Apollo vs Phoenix legal fight. More of a struggle and less of a cakewalk against the 'Turnabout terror'

Sarge was a fun character though although I have seen his particular twist twice already in this series so no points for that.

Other then that Apollo being Dhurke's adopted son and Sadmahdi's adopted brother is still stupid. Really really stupid. Phoenix and Athena already had past ties with proscecutors. Apollo did't need to join that big pile. It also comes out of nowhere and i'm a bit confused on how it fits when you take Apollo's flashback from DD into acount.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Sasori

[blah the Prussian]

Without being too spoilers, Thane, how is it. I mean, it seems bad, but what general features make it bad?

[Thane]

Without being too spoilers, Thane, how is it. I mean, it seems bad, but what general features make it bad?

In regards to the first part? Try "everything but the core concept" and "waste of time".

I'll soon be done with watching 6-5, and boy, I've got a lot of things I want to say.

Edit: welp, I'm done with 6-5 now, and it was just about everything I expected it to be. Yamazaki's writing style is all too apparent: bloated cast, attempts at a grandiose plot, too much stuff going on at once while not actually elaborating on anything, horrible villains, etc.

[spoiler=Yamazaki rant and the fundamental flaws of the premise of the game]This man is actually unbelievable. The way he wrote Khura'in and Apollo's backstory comes across as his attempts at trying to at best improve upon things that didn't need to be expanded upon - or at least not in that manner - or at worst, substitute what was already established. The original trilogy served to close the Fey arc, with Maya taking over and finally settling what happened to her mother for good - Yamazaki suddenly introduces the country where the spirit channeling technique took place, something that had never been mentioned before. This is similar to how he introduced Athena out of nowhere when she was the last thing the series needed, effectively making a reboot after a reboot.

However, that's not the only problem: I also noticed far too many things feeling like they were ripped out of other installments in the franchise. I can't remember them all now because of the sheer length of 6-5 though, but I'll write what I remember and I might come back to this particular point later.

Sadhmadhi was effectively a combination of Edgeworth and Blackquill in that, like Edgeworth and Phoenix, they knew each other from before, and like Blackquill, he tried protecting someone and at his own expense.

I mentioned it earlier, but Betty and Bonny were a combination of Iris/Dahlia and Ini/Mimi.

Maya being involved in a spirit medium drama (3-5) while also being kidnapped, forcing Phoenix to fight for a scumbag with his hands tied behind his back (2-4)

Phoenix and Apollo facing each other in court again.

Also, and while I realize this might be a stretch, I feel like I should bring it up because Yamazaki's tendencies to "borrow" things (or in the case of 5-5, straight up copy 1-5) stack up. Minister Inga having prosopagnosia is eerily reminiscent of a character in the mystery game 999 (heavy spoilers for an awesome game).

[spoiler=My scattered thoughts on 6-5]What can I even say about the first act? It's all meaningless and forgettable, having a boring cast while at the same time repeating things that have happened earlier on in the series. I'm baffled that this game didn't produce a single good villain, and Paul Atishon was by far the worst, having literally zero redeeming qualities. The entire first act was just a fake out, probably so that it could be used in trailers and entice people to buy the game, since everyone wants to see Apollo and Phoenix square off - except they don't, really; with no good characters involved and Phoenix being unable to do anything in his current situation, the entire thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I've got no proof for this, but I think this was meant ot be case 6-4, but since they knew how unpopular it was with a short case being tied to the finale in Dual Destinies, they just wrote the 6-4 we know now as filler so the wouldn't have to deal with any controversy. It's the most logical reason I can come up with as to why the quality of the first act is so low and why it feels so rushed.

Honestly, with both Sadhmadhi acting like Blackquill and Phoenix and Apollo facing off again, it feels as if though Yamazaki felt like he failed with Dual Destinies and wanted to redo it, only to fail horribly again.

They then move on to Khura'in where suddenly Edgeworth shows up and the rebels can walk around freely and everyone can come and go to the royal palace at a whim. Okay then.

Oh noooo, Dhurke died, who could've ever figured that out? It's almost as if I called it the very second he showed up (I've actually got proof of this one: look at post #128 on this thread. I can't prove I didn't look it up beforehand, however, so I suppose you'll just have to take my word for it)

Gee, this queen is the only one of importance left, and she's obsessed with the orb; I wonder if she's the killer and doesn't have spirit powers? Oh my gosh, I was right again! Man, am I smart or what? (No, it's Yamazaki whose writing is about as subtle as America on the 4:th of July)

Oh wow, Inga has his whole, incredibly detailed plan of "poison queen, station men here" in his safe? I guess that's to be expected, since he couldn't possibly remember all of those complicated details in his head. I will admit that I found his password being Rayfa's birthday and him having saved her letters to be extremely cute, but it was quickly ruined by what happened next, and I literally had to pause the video to laugh.

Let's fast forward to the actual courtroom, and this is where things start to actually get even worse (after a slight improvement after the first act, but really, if they had gone downhill from there, we would've reached 5-5 territory). Look, I know Yamazaki is a big fan of transformations - it's in all of his works with the bloody Phantom being the most subdued - but the queen's appearance removes any tension from finding the killer since she looks so incredibly evil - and we already know why she wants the orb - that both her motive and her guilt are established from the beginning. What's worse, she utterly shatters the suspension of disbelief by rewriting laws clearly and loudly in front of all to see, and she acts like a psychopath the way she talks about death and belittles her daughter. There's not a single person in that room who would've remained on her side after all that. What's more, here's where we see the full extent of the Khura'in bullshit which I called back when the game was first released: she controls absolutely everything and can change the rules on a whim, yet she plays along with Apollo and Phoenix for no adequately explored reason, accepting new witnesses and things like that when she doesn't need to. She's also shown she can literally get away with attempted murder, so the player becomes so far removed from the events that are transpiring that there's not a shred of tension left in the game.

To make this as balanced as I can, I'll mention what I did like: I've never cared for the supernatural part of Ace Attorney, but that nonwithstanding, I loved the twist of Dhurke having been dead for a while, which was something I really didn't see coming at all. Great, great stuff.

However, one good thing doesn't make up for everything that's wrong with this case. For instance, the utter lack of chemistry between the characters, especially Apollo and Sadhmadhi - Yamazaki repeats the same mistakes as he did with Athena and Blackquill, giving them absolutely nothing that would make us care about their relationship.

Speaking of Sadhmadhi, he's definitely VERY close to Franzika's level, if not worse, and what better way to prove my point than to paraphrase him: "I never stopped to contemplate what was right or what was wrong". He was also dumb enough to genuinely believe what he was doing was right, or he trusted the queen at least. At the very least this makes him the stupidest prosecutor in the series, and one not worthy of any sympathy at all.

While on the subject of characters, I must point out how bad Phoenix was in this game. I ask of you: can you remember anything Phoenix actually says or does in this game? He blunders and bluffs far more than he ever did in the original trilogy, he gets pushed around without sticking up for himself and more often than not it feels like he just lucks his way out of any and all situations. Apollo is the star of this game, and while I've wanted that for a while, it really came at the expense of Phoenix who's just there to sweat buckets and draw in the fans at this point.

However, Apollo being the star also came at a terrible price: like I feared, Khura'in has swallowed Apollo. They had no idea where to take his character, so they just dumped him in a place the players hardly have any reasons at all for liking. He just casually says goodbye to his old life, his friends, his job, his sister and moves to that shit hole. While I'm hardly surprised, since they pretty much seem to be throwing things against a wall and see what sticks when it comes to his character, I'm appalled by just how poorly portrayed this all was. I'm sure this could've been avoided if Athena wasn't ever introduced, or at least left after Dual Destinies since her story is done, and more focus was put on Apollo then.

I've got more to say, but I'm a bit tired and have already written enough, I feel like.

[spoiler=The final insult]They actually have the nerve, the AUDACITY, to tease Thalassa coming to reveal Apollo and Trucy's relationship after two years of silence which have made both her and Wright look like douchebags AFTER DEDICATING AN ENTIRE GAME TO APOLLO'S BACKSTORY!

In short, one of the worst cases in the entire series. It's not 5-5 or 6-3, but it's far too close.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Thane

[Jave]

Thane, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel.

[solrocknroll]

wow, because removing Athena would somehow magically make the plot better?

just because you loathe her for taking away screentime from apollo or whatever, doesn't mean that she's magically the root of all evil

even though apollo is the worst MC in the series, worse than Edgeworth, Phoenix, or Athena.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Eneggmar

[Ace Pelleas]

wow, because removing Athena would somehow magically make the plot better?

just because you loathe her for taking away screentime from apollo or whatever, doesn't mean that she's magically the root of all evil

even though apollo is the worst MC in the series, worse than Edgeworth, Phoenix, or Athena.

Sorry,but I need to object

Apollo is definitely not the worst main character. Edgeworth,Phoenix,Mia and Apollo are about the same level(haven't played DD or SOJ). Mia would be my least favourite(don't get me wrong,she is an amazing character) and Phoenix would be above her,Apollo would be the second(my favourite in terms of personality. Edgey would be the first palce,not because he is the best character,but his interactions with every character are so amazing.Especially with Gumshoe,Lang and Kay.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Ace Pelleas

[Augestein]

wow, because removing Athena would somehow magically make the plot better?

just because you loathe her for taking away screentime from apollo or whatever, doesn't mean that she's magically the root of all evil

even though apollo is the worst MC in the series, worse than Edgeworth, Phoenix, or Athena.

Athena shouldn't have just been removed, she should have never been introduced in the first place. Phoenix and Apollo with Trucy and/or Pearl being on the side was enough for a cast of heroes. We didn't really need ANOTHER character to be introduced again. Especially when Phoenix got 3 games staring him, and Apollo had 1 (and even in that, we got to see the fate of Phoenix as well as play as him), and didn't even get all of his details ironed out. Do we really *need* 3 lawyers? Unless they were planning on having more cases, this is kind of silly. I mean, the most we ever had was 3 in a game beforehand (Edgeworth, Mia, and Phoenix), but here's the difference: when you played as the other characters, the OTHER characters weren't actually just standing around saying "you can do it!" Essentially. There's too many. Athena could have been in the game as Phoenix's apprentice, but there was no reason for her to be much more then that in DD.

As for Athena, the problem with Athena is that she's a very poorly introduced character. The game hypes her up as some sort of ace when she's no better (read as actually worse) than Phoenix and Apollo (a character that is by no means a genius or anything of the sort). Jams her backstory to be tied to Blackquill, whose past is somehow tied to a subplot that's so poorly outlined that when the resolution happens you can't help but wonder what the hell the game is talking about. And the game pretty much ties every event in the game back to her and Blackquill -- which makes for a rather poor storyline. Like even Phoenix wasn't *that* personally involved in the cases from before.

Whether you like Athena or not, you have to admit that things are a mess around her. I mean, they kind of are with Apollo now, but that's what happens when a writer decides to be "surprising" and have "twists and turns" over logical progression.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Augestein

[Ema Skye]

IMO Apollo Justice is the worst of the six main games so 6-5's ending means absolutely nothing to me.

I also like Athena way more than Apollo. I don't see her as a mess and I don't see any problem with having a lot of characters. That was my favorite part about SoJ.

Individual case ranking for me is:

Top Five

1 - 5. 6-5 > 1-5 > 2-4 > 6-3 > 6-2

Top 15

6 -- 11. 5-6 > 3-4 > 5-3 > 5-4 > 5-5 > 2-2

12 -- 15. 3-1 > 1-4 > 3-5 > 1-2

"Meh"

16 -- 19. 6-4 > 4-1 > 6-1 > 1-3

20 -- 24. 4-4 > 3-2 > 1-1 > 3-3 > 5-1

Bottom 5

25 -- 29. 5-2 > 2-3 > 2-1 > 4-2 > 4-3

Game Rankings (sum case ranks divided by number of cases in game):

AA1: 14.2 (17.25 w/o RftA)

JFA: 16.75

T&T: 15.4

AJ: 23.5

DD: 13.6

SoJ: 8.8

So, statistically speaking, my "Favorite AA game list would be": SoJ > DD > AA1 > T&T > JFA > AJ.

[Samias]

*snip*

6-5 is entirely saved by Dhurke being one of the better characters Yamazaki has written, despite his death being telegraphed a mile away and some stupid choices on his part. Though the way he came back to talk to Apollo via spirit channeling was extremely creative and ultimately heart wrenching. However the rest of the plot was absolutely ruined by Maya getting kidnapped and I dunno if you read my spoilers before with regards to those so I'll recap.

Maya escaped. SHE'S CHANNELING DHURKE. DHURKE KNOWS HE'S BEING CHANNELED. WHY DID HE GO BACK TO GET MAYA REKIDNAPPED? Surely there was some other way to save Rayfa and and Nahyuta! Surely he could have gotten Phoenix to call off the whole first trial since Paul Atishon no longer has his trump card. Like sure, Ga'ran is all powerful in Khura'in and a dictator to boot, but what is she really going to do with Inga dead and an eminent uprising on her hands? Kill her (fake) daughter and then incur the wrath of her sister who does all the channeling for her for the sole reason of keeping her children safe? Like holy shit. The holes. It's like swiss cheese.

I'm really mad about the gigantic idiot ball being tossed around the entire case. Funnily enough though, the stuff you're mad about I didn't find as detestable other than Phoenix's weak ass self in court on day 1. I vastly prefer Apollo over Phoenix though so maybe I was just happy that Apollo didn't have the plot usurped away from him again and he didn't do something stupid like poke his eye out over his trust issues in Dual Destinies. I think Ga'ran being so ridiculously evil is part of the charm of case 5 though maybe I would've given her a different prosecutor outfit instead of looking like a Darkstalkers reject. Rewriting the law and acting completely comtemptable to His Majestry actually made this case stand out instead of a bunch of borrowed plotlines from the original trilogy.

[blah the Prussian]

Damn it. Damn it, damn it, damn it. I had such high hopes for this game, especially after 6-2. Sigh. I guess I'll have to play it and see for myself, but still.

[Samias]

I mean, I still liked the game overall and would probably rank it above 2, 4, 5 and AAI in total enjoyability. YMMV as some people think 6-3 and 6-5 are the best cases they've ever played. I only had real issues with the resolution of 6-5 through the entire game and a bit of script bloat fatigue but 6-2 is one of my favourite cases ever.