I don't feel entirely satisfied with the current direction of FE

[Quintessence]

I'd be ok with units having a minimum of D rank and Iron being the weakest variant of weapons. Bronze weapons imo are pointless and are more an annoyance than a usefulness. It comes to mind moments when I want a unit to go through lots of classes to gather/grind skills and the weapon they start with is really useless that the training gets more tedious. Look Orochi going Merchant to get Spendsthrift (just an example).

Regarding forges, what if forges have a lead time? Like, if you forge a weapon with a base Iron weapon, then one would receive it 1 chapter after it was ordered, Steels would have a lead time of 2 chapters and Silvers 4 chapters or something. And limiting mt/hit increases by up to 50% its base stats or something.

[Darros]

I would say promoted units should have D ranks at a bare minimum. Unpromoted units can have E for reclassing purposes and cavaliers or whatever, I don't mind that. But maybe turn Bronze Weapons back into Iron Weapons for the E rank weapon? I think the weapon system just needs an overhaul in general. Adding shuriken and daggers I think was great but the rest of the new system is just... bad.

As for Dragon Veins, I don't particularly mind them but having only Royals be able to access them ((without buying DLC anyway <_<)) was kind of frustrating. Especially in that chapter with the eight dragons veins seeing how I was only using Corrin, Sakura, and Camilla for royals on my most recent playthrough. If there are going to be gimmicks like that they should be less limited in how they're going to be used ((if they're mandatory to complete a chapter or make the chapter significantly less tedious anyway)). Gimmick chapters are not inherently bad, it depends on how they're done. It just happens that FE14 did a lot of them poorly.

[NekoKnight]

E ranked weapons should stay, but their purpose should be for levelling weapon ranks. They should be weak but give more wexp per hit than iron weapons and maybe even steel weapons. This would take a lot of pain out of levelling weapon ranks, making it simply something you need to shift your focus to accomplish rather than a grindfest.

I would endorse these "training" weapons, but there needs to be more to use in E rank than just those, otherwise it's just an extra bar of wexp that you need to grind through to get to the weapons you want to use.

[Augestein]

Dragon Veins could have been replicated with most any older FE thing, like snags or traps, instead they decided to make the nobles all special little snowflakes for gimmicky little optional things that may or may not be good for the map.

I personally see them as a pointless addition.

I like the idea of map alterations, what I don't like is the fact that it's limited to royals only. What I would have done with something like this is something like the card system in Yggdra Union where you could use the ice spells to freeze water tiles to allow units to walk over. IE, having the ability to say... Burn down a bridge with torches or fire spells is an interesting concept, the issue is that you have rev maps like the Valla one where it's "trigger these veins to open up a final pathway to teleport to the boss." Why... Oh why did those have to be dragon veins? May god have mercy on someone's soul that doesn't use royals and doesn't have the DLC to make anyone have the ability to do that.

[Troykv]

I like the idea of map alterations, what I don't like is the fact that it's limited to royals only. What I would have done with something like this is something like the card system in Yggdra Union where you could use the ice spells to freeze water tiles to allow units to walk over. IE, having the ability to say... Burn down a bridge with torches or fire spells is an interesting concept, the issue is that you have rev maps like the Valla one where it's "trigger these veins to open up a final pathway to teleport to the boss." Why... Oh why did those have to be dragon veins? May god have mercy on someone's soul that doesn't use royals and doesn't have the DLC to make anyone have the ability to do that.

Revelations is just a Royale-fanservice-fest.

I would want the "Dragon Veins" be used with elements you would have in your Convoy (magic or some special objects) instead of just be a Special-Snowflake power... Huh

[Topaz Light]

I personally voted "Bad but has some positives". Overall, I don't really like the direction it's going in, although I do like some stuff that it's done.

[spoiler=Some positives]

• The UI and overall feel of the controls in the 3DS Fire Emblem games is slicker, smoother, and more fluent than it's ever been in series history. Don't really care for how plain and bland Awakening's menus look, but Fates mostly fixed that issue.
• The music is pretty good, and while I admit to being a bit iffy about it at first, I gotta say I've come to be a pretty big fan of the way 3DSFE handles battle themes against regular enemies.
• The quality of the voice acting and direction is easily the best it's ever been in the series.
• Fates' Knives and Shurikens. Tellius' Knives left me wishing Thieves could just use Swords like in earlier games. Fates' Knives and Shurikens made me wish that more classes were able to use them. They're such a cool, fun, and useful weapon type.
• Fates' buffing of Bows was also much appreciated, and changed Archers from being borderline dead weight in most circumstances once you start getting spellcasters, Javelins, and Hand Axes to being strong and worthwhile contributors to your team's exploits.
• The new classes the 3DS Fire Emblem games have introduced have been really cool, for the most part, especially all the mixed physical/magical classes. I'd absolutely be interested in seeing some of those classes return in later games.
• The way Reclass Sets are handled. I'm still not totally sure how I feel about reclassing overall, but I definitely think that determining available classes on a by-character basis based on what matches their personality and personal history the best is far preferable to just dividing the classes up into a few generic sets and having those sets be shared among all characters who start in one of the respective classes.
• The idea of having the different nations be based off of different real-life countries/regions in terms of culture, architecture, given names, and clothing styles is really cool, and something I'd love to see the series apply to a world with at least pre-3DSFE-tier worldbuilding.
• I've heard people complain about it, but I honestly don't mind that branching promotions are back and seemingly here to stay. I think that they're a great way to add a bit more customizability to individual characters without sacrificing that character's personality or intended vocation.
• Letting unpromotable classes with first-tier base stats reach level 30 or 40 as their level cap instead of 20 is a good way to compensate for their inability to promote.
• The idea of an Avatar/My Unit character is something I actually think is really cool. Intelligent Systems just needs to work it in in a way that doesn't severely inhibit the other characters' development in order to passionately make out with the player's ass.

[spoiler=Bad]

• People have already ranted a lot about the outfit design, and I agree with... most of it. The thing is, I honestly think that a lot of the unarmored outfit designs range from decent to even pretty good. The main problem is that the armored designs top out at "alright" and can get as bad as "atrocious" (example: Awakening's female Great Knight armor).
• On the topic of costume designs, I also really don't like how almost every character just wears a recolored form of their starting class's standardized outfit, plus maybe an accessory or two. There are some characters in standard classes who do get truly unique personal outfits, but they're few and far between.
• While I can see the benefits to it, too, I personally don't really like how Skills have been made into something that every character has access to in abundance. I think they're more fun and special when they're done the way Jugdral and Tellius do them; special properties that only some of your units have access to.
• Letting you circumvent the level cap with either Second Seals (Awakening) or Eternal Seals (Fates). While Fates does still have an (obscenely-high) absolute level cap at 99 promoted (effectively up to 119), Awakening's Second Seals pretty much erase the relevancy of growth rates entirely, making caps all that ultimately matter provided the player is patient enough.
• I also don't like the stat scale inflation the series has undergone, and I feel like nerfing stat boosters is exactly the wrong way to adapt them to the average stat scale being larger. Due to how rigid Fire Emblem's mechanics are, I felt that smaller stat numbers worked just fine for it, and were in fact preferable to the larger ones it's been using of late.
• I honestly can't say I care so much for the way Fates handles weapons, which I realize is controversial since a lot of people seem to like it. I feel like finite uses (and weight, for that matter) were both good mechanics, and that overcomplicating things with weird specific debuffs and such is frankly a rather annoying substitute. If weapons are to be infinite in usage, make it like in Gaiden where new and special weapons are relatively rare, and getting one is a special occasion.
• The rest of the cast and the writing in general really need to get their mouths away from the Avatar's boots and pelvic region.
• Worldbuilding is a thing that exists and is important to telling a compelling fantasy story. Unfortunately, Intelligent Systems seems to have forgotten this.
• The Outrealms in Awakening could easily just have been dismissed as handwaving access to the DLC chapters, save for the very few character endings which reference them. Fates makes them solidly canon, which honestly is just the absolute worst.
• I really don't care for using things like Risen, Faceless, illusory Vallite soldiers, etc. as enemy factions. One really interesting thing about most Fire Emblem games, story-wise, is that the enemies you fought were almost exclusively living humans or members of other intelligent races on the continent, and not monsters in any sense other than sometimes a moral one. Using monsters, at least the way Intelligent Systems has historically done, basically makes those enemies completely devoid of any real character, personality, or plot or world significance. They aren't interesting to fight, from a story perspective, at least.
• "It's not really incest if they're your adopted siblings/step-siblings/cousin (or the child thereof)!" Yes. Yes, it is really incest. Stop it. And no, it is not equivalent to Jugdral using incest for some fixed plot points in a way that does not paint it as a positive thing whatsoever.
• I pretty much just dislike the entirety of how recruitable characters are handled...

  I don't like how they're each centered on a gimmick to the point of true character development sometimes being deliberately avoided in order to preserve that gimmick. Granted, with such a big cast, there is some degree to which you are kind of going to have to fall back on "gimmick"-type traits for some of them to make them stand out from each other, but even gimmicky characters can be done well and be compelling; you just have to make there be significantly more to them than their initial gimmick.

• I also don't like how almost every recruitable character is either outright handed to you or made so easy to recruit that they might as well have been (do note that I said almost every), as well as the fact that almost all of them were always on your side, and their recruitment is just them joining up with your main character's particular traveling party for good. I thought the casts were much more interesting, and getting new characters felt much cooler and more special, when you actually had to deliberately make an effort to get the characters, and when most of them were contextualized in-universe as a new person joining your group. Doing it that way also opens up a ton of ways to use recruitment method and circumstances to tie into a character's personal story and express parts of their character.
• I also kinda don't like how rare items have been handled lately. For the most part, almost all of them are effectively infinite in supply unless you're deliberately restricting what you let yourself use, and they almost never have any relevance to the plot. The Falchion, the Yato, and the male royals' personal weapons being the exception, almost all legendary/S-rank weapons in the 3DSFE games are just kind of there, with no relevance to anything, as if they're only in the game for the sake of the game having S-rank weapons.

  Also kinda relevant, if a bit of a tangent, but why does Awakening use Jugdral's legendary weapons, of all things? What happened to Mercurius, Gradivus, Parthia, Hauteclere, Excalibur, Aura, Starlight, Imhullu, and the Aum staff? Why do Amatsu and Goetia have no relevance to anything despite being the only Awakening-original legendary weapons in the game? I do know that Jugdral did canonically exist in that same universe even before taking Awakening's weird retcons into account, and that Archanea's legendary weapons are available in Awakening (sans the last three Tomes and the Aum Staff), but it still seems like a really weird choice, since Jugdral isn't relevant to the game at all outside of the story chapter seemingly dedicated to referencing it and the paralogue that borrows a piece of one of its maps, while around half the game takes place on Archanea.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Topaz Light

[DoctorSpectrum]

I think the newer games - Fates and Awakening - haven't been as great as the older ones, but they've still been damn good and I'll definitely do more playthroughs of them (which I rarely do for games). I feel that where some mechanics have changed, it hasn't been a big deal because they're still similar enough to what I loved about the older games that they're still very playable. My main disappointment with the newer games has been the story in each.

Pros:

• Some very cool characters, as to be expected
• Avatar system is cool, as is giving flexibility for who you want to marry
• Kids system is even cooler; I'm not sure how well it worked in Genealogy of the Holy War but I like how it's been done here
• Ninjas are frigging amazing (both mechanically and flavor-wise), as is Hoshido. I like that we're starting to move away from European fantasy.
• I really like that Fates has been released as three games, since unlike when Pokemon does it, each one is distinct from one another and tells a different side of the story.

Neutral

• I'm not a fan of Casual mode, but I can understand why they put it in. I doubt I'll ever play it myself because not having permadeath is very...not Fire Emblem.
• Pair Up is a cool idea, but there was nothing about the previous 1-on-1 combat that needed fixing. It adds a nice element to combat but if they removed it I wouldn't be complaining
• I liked when tomes had their own weapon triangle rather than being awkwardly shunted into the existing triangle. That being said, I like that bows have finally been added to the triangle, and knives/shurikens fit in quite nicely, so the sub-triangle worked overall I guess. We'll call this one a draw.

Cons

• I'm glad that we've still got the kids in Fates, but the explanation for them this time feels super handwave-y, and it feels a bit lazy. Plus, the implications of, "Yep, [younger character] had sex with [older character]!" leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
• I'm not a fan of reclassing (the exception being changing to a promoted unit, natch). To me, the class a unit starts off in feels like the correct class for a unit (plus the Supports don't reflect any class changes), so I don't feel too much incentive to reclass.
• Granted, I haven't beaten it yet, but the story in Birthright feels really lazy to me. "Let's follow this linear path to Nohr, huzzah! Also, thanks for siding with people you've only known for a few days over the family you grew up with and the siblings who clearly care about you."
• The final chapter of Conquest coming right after the penultimate one without an opportunity to save felt really cheap to me.
• Unlimited weapons uses in Fates feels weird. That's another aspect which feels very not-Fire Emblem.
• I miss the days in which you needed specific units to recruit enemy units, rather than it always being Chrom (in Awakening). And were there even any recruitable enemy units in Fates? They just kind of throw units at you every few chapters.

Whilst the cons outweight the pros on my list, I'm still saying that the current direction is fine because the core mechanics of what I've always liked are there, and the games are still very fun to play. They have their flaws but they're nowhere near the level of Shadow Dragon, which I consider to be my least favourite Fire Emblem game.

[Topaz Light]

...were there even any recruitable enemy units in Fates? They just kind of throw units at you every few chapters.

There were a handful of characters who start out as enemies and then join you after beating their chapters, whether they "survived" or not (you often need to take them out to clear the chapter, even!), if that counts.

You also can recruit Takumi (in Birthright) and Rhajat from the enemy side by talking to them... but you can also just beat them and clear the chapter and they'll join anyway, so...

[henrymidfields]

I've noticed that the royals in Fates (although not so much for my Corrin in my Conquest LP) and Chrom/Robin in Awakening are the gamebreakers. I actually question this to be honest, because I thought Fire Emblem is all about cherishing your units, leadership, and teamwork to win the game.

If Roy could promote at an earlier time (or had a higher cap for his unpromoted class), then I actually prefer this way of "physically weak leader utilises charisma to lead a strong army". Because as far as I am concerned, isn't leadership, charisma, and morale also important aspects in winning wars? In Roy's case, he could have an wide area-of-field effect that boosts his troop's, say, avoid, accuracy, and critical activation chance - which I will call as the charisma effect. Of course, there is the question of just how much bonus the game should allocate - something I haven't thought about. Too much, and the game becomes too easy. Not enough, and you might as well not bother. As his level grows, the boost becomes stronger and wide-reaching; it is basically translating raised morale into gameplay.

Other characters on a limited scope could also provide the same effect:

• Lilina: provides a lesser charisma effect for her Ostian soldiers (Barth, Bors, Wendy, and Oujay)
• Roy's love interest (female A-support partner): The love interest has a small charisma effect on everyone. (This includes Lilina, and her charisma will stack with the aforementioned.)
• Marcus: for the Phaere soldiers (Alan, Lance, Wolt)
• Echidna/Elphin/Lalum: for the Western Isles people
• Douglas: for the Etrurian army (Klein, Cecilia, Perceval et al)
• Zealot/Juno: For the Illian army (Thany, Tate et al)

Similarly, for Shadow Dragon, Marth and to a lesser extent, Caeda would have their charisma effect on everyone. For others:

• Jaygun: Abel, Cain, Gordon
• Ogma: Bord, Cord, and Barst
• Hardin: Roshea, Vyland, Sedgar and Wolf
• Minerva: Palla, Catria, Est, Maria

Edited November 7, 2016 by henrymidfields

[Harvey]

I think the newer games - Fates and Awakening - haven't been as great as the older ones, but they've still been damn good and I'll definitely do more playthroughs of them (which I rarely do for games). I feel that where some mechanics have changed, it hasn't been a big deal because they're still similar enough to what I loved about the older games that they're still very playable. My main disappointment with the newer games has been the story in each.

• Kids system is even cooler; I'm not sure how well it worked in Genealogy of the Holy War but I like how it's been done here
• Ninjas are frigging amazing (both mechanically and flavor-wise), as is Hoshido. I like that we're starting to move away from European fantasy.
• I'm not a fan of Casual mode, but I can understand why they put it in. I doubt I'll ever play it myself because not having permadeath is very...not Fire Emblem.
• Pair Up is a cool idea, but there was nothing about the previous 1-on-1 combat that needed fixing. It adds a nice element to combat but if they removed it I wouldn't be complaining
• I'm glad that we've still got the kids in Fates, but the explanation for them this time feels super handwave-y, and it feels a bit lazy. Plus, the implications of, "Yep, [younger character] had sex with [older character]!" leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
• I'm not a fan of reclassing (the exception being changing to a promoted unit, natch). To me, the class a unit starts off in feels like the correct class for a unit (plus the Supports don't reflect any class changes), so I don't feel too much incentive to reclass.
• Granted, I haven't beaten it yet, but the story in Birthright feels really lazy to me. "Let's follow this linear path to Nohr, huzzah! Also, thanks for siding with people you've only known for a few days over the family you grew up with and the siblings who clearly care about you."
• The final chapter of Conquest coming right after the penultimate one without an opportunity to save felt really cheap to me.
• Unlimited weapons uses in Fates feels weird. That's another aspect which feels very not-Fire Emblem.
• I miss the days in which you needed specific units to recruit enemy units, rather than it always being Chrom (in Awakening). And were there even any recruitable enemy units in Fates? They just kind of throw units at you every few chapters.

Whilst the cons outweight the pros on my list, I'm still saying that the current direction is fine because the core mechanics of what I've always liked are there, and the games are still very fun to play. They have their flaws but they're nowhere near the level of Shadow Dragon, which I consider to be my least favourite Fire Emblem game.

1. In Holy War, you choose which units you want to get close together and they bring their child in the second generation which is forced due to the story being like that unlike in Awakening and Fates.

2. Yeah I agree. I love the way Kaze or Saizo swing their swords for their victory pose!

3.Honestly, I doubt I can play classic mode on Conquest even in normal Mode. I'm right now struggling even on Binding Blade. :P

But I understand how you feel as I feel the same way. Maybe if they made short maps....or if its like Birthright.

4.Pair up IS a blessing. Sure its got some flaws here and there especially with the guard meter but its nonetheless very helpful.

5.Kids are honestly pointless unlike in Holy War. I wish for the next game, IS will do something about this mechanic to make it interesting like Holy War.

6. Except the problem is that some units for the way they are designed are better off being in a different class like Odin.....

7. Well birthright follows a straightforward path so you can't get much out of it. Can't say I blame ya though....

8. Yeah, that alone made me feel like I did the right thing playing it on casual mode.

9.Unlimited weapons actually came from FE: Gaiden except the difference here is that weapons alter stats and I agree that it can be frustrating. Wonder if Gaiden did this too?

10. The problem is that it spoils the story if you have no idea who you need to recruit. I don't think anyone could've figured out in their first try that you need to use Lillina to get Gonzales.

[Dinar87]

Thanks for your inputs guys! Another thing I'd like to talk about is the realism factor. In other words, how much should fire emblem be about fighting generic monsters and dragons as opposed to intelligent, fleshed out human enemies? Of course, it's possible to have non-generic monsters but with the way IS has been handling fantasy elements as of late, they feel more like excuses to bolster the game play as opposed to actually being interesting. Does Anankos ever become interesting or is he just another grima (sorry but I thought he was somewhat generic)? Do the monsters you fight ever become intelligent overall or are they just boring "minions" of the big bad?

For example, are the enemies you fight (apart from hoshido/nohr) ever an actual faction with fleshed out, intelligent characters...or are they just exp soda cans you can kill to get stronger...and their only purpose is to make you stronger and not interest you in any way in terms of character or tactics.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dinar87

[Jotari]

1. In Holy War, you choose which units you want to get close together and they bring their child in the second generation which is forced due to the story being like that unlike in Awakening and Fates.

2. Yeah I agree. I love the way Kaze or Saizo swing their swords for their victory pose!

3.Honestly, I doubt I can play classic mode on Conquest even in normal Mode. I'm right now struggling even on Binding Blade. :P

But I understand how you feel as I feel the same way. Maybe if they made short maps....or if its like Birthright.

4.Pair up IS a blessing. Sure its got some flaws here and there especially with the guard meter but its nonetheless very helpful.

5.Kids are honestly pointless unlike in Holy War. I wish for the next game, IS will do something about this mechanic to make it interesting like Holy War.

6. Except the problem is that some units for the way they are designed are better off being in a different class like Odin.....

7. Well birthright follows a straightforward path so you can't get much out of it. Can't say I blame ya though....

8. Yeah, that alone made me feel like I did the right thing playing it on casual mode.

9.Unlimited weapons actually came from FE: Gaiden except the difference here is that weapons alter stats and I agree that it can be frustrating. Wonder if Gaiden did this too?

10. The problem is that it spoils the story if you have no idea who you need to recruit. I don't think anyone could've figured out in their first try that you need to use Lillina to get Gonzales.

Gaiden's weapon system basically worked like The Legend of Zelda or something. You have one equipment slot on each unit, they can attack even if they don't have a weapon equipped or if they have a shield or something equipped. Weapons are much rarer, there's only like two dozen or something in the game so in effect they work more like stat boosters than anything else (though some do have special effects. It's where the Luna Lance originated from among others).

Thanks for your inputs guys! Another thing I'd like to talk about is the realism factor. In other words, how much should fire emblem be about fighting generic monsters and dragons as opposed to intelligent, fleshed out human enemies? Of course, it's possible to have non-generic monsters but with the way IS has been handling fantasy elements as of late, they feel more like excuses to bolster the game play as opposed to actually being interesting. Does Anankos ever become interesting or is he just another grima (sorry but I thought he was somewhat generic)? Do the monsters you fight ever become intelligent overall or are they just boring "minions" of the big bad?

For example, are the enemies you fight (apart from hoshido/nohr) ever an actual faction with fleshed out, intelligent characters...or are they just exp soda cans you can kill to get stronger...and their only purpose is to make you stronger and not interest you in any way in terms of character or tactics.

Anankos was more interesting than Grima with DLC taken into account. Without it he's possibly one of the most bland final bosses in the series. The faceless are also like the ultimate excuse enemy when it comes to walking bags of exp. They're not over used too much in the game at least but they serve absolutely no plot relevance what so ever. They're just some monsters Nohr invented because apparently Frankenstein lives there.

[Dinar87]

Gaiden's weapon system basically worked like The Legend of Zelda or something. You have one equipment slot on each unit, they can attack even if they don't have a weapon equipped or if they have a shield or something equipped. Weapons are much rarer, there's only like two dozen or something in the game so in effect they work more like stat boosters than anything else (though some do have special effects. It's where the Luna Lance originated from among others).

Anankos was more interesting than Grima with DLC taken into account. Without it he's possibly one of the most bland final bosses in the series. The faceless are also like the ultimate excuse enemy when it comes to walking bags of exp. They're not over used too much in the game at least but they serve absolutely no plot relevance what so ever. They're just some monsters Nohr invented because apparently Frankenstein lives there.

I'd prefer to fight more Begnions where there's a mix of intelligent and noble villains but there's also despicable ones as well like the senators. Having just generic monsters because you need an enemy to give exp for the filthy casuals inexperienced players ruins the immersion for me. The only reason for there being generic monsters is a not in-game explanation of "well newbz will struggle n shit if we don't do this".

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dinar87

[Locke087]

Weapons: Bronze weapons could be made a whole lot better by removing that stupid "no critical/no skill proc" trait. Personally I'd rather just see E rank removed entirely, or at least make all promoted classes have a minimum of D rank in applicable weapons. For the forging issue, I'd get rid of the "combine two of the same weapon" mechanic and just have you alter existing weapons. The resources could still be from melting down unused weapons, but instead the resource could be from any weapon. Let's say you could get rid of those iron axes you don't need to buff your steel sword.

Personal skills: Personal skills should create a unique niche for that character, something that can be exploited to maximize their potential. Beruka's personal skill is what I'd describe as the perfect type, something that you can activate at will and lets her perform better in a certain play style. Selena's is the worst kind, something that will rarely activate, can't be controlled and will have minimal effect.

Pair-up: Now that Fates has made so many improvements on the mechanic, I would be happy to see pair-up for at least another game. It's good for the games to innovate but it would be a waste, in my opinion, to toss out all the progress they made on it after two games.

I describe them as a decent idea but in need of a little refinement. Some DVs are fairly pointless, only helping the player and just an extra condition of playing the map efficiently. Others do require strategic timing (such as the wind level in Conquest) or can be exploited by the enemy to make your life harder (the infamous C10).

I agree on the special-snowflake issue however.

Believe you me I am all for the removal of bronze weapons I thought their existence was stupid in Awakening let alone Fates (Radiant Dawn was somewhat forgivable as if you had very limited cash they were something to spend it on and you were never forced to use them). With the new weapon system in place they need to think of a strategic niche for bronze weapons or lose them all together. So yeah I told agree if you're there and definitely we need decent weapon levels for promotions.

For forging that system seems like it has even more chance for abuse as now you could just buy the cheapest weapons of the shop for material if you need it, this system could mabye work if there was initial price to forge... at the end the day forged iron and steel weapons can't make silver weapons irrelevant that's the goal. Frankly I'm for the foundation of removing forge all together as it is in conflict with the current weapon system, by removing it altogether they would have more freedom to add a greater variety of difference weapons each weapon to be properly balanced in rarity and price, and some of these weapons would be only findable interests and could not be bought.

Completely agree with you on personal skills, there was a lot of good examples of personal skills in Fates (Like Elise's or Effie's) but there was way more bad ones and kind of okay ones that didn't complement there play style, or rewarded bad play (Like Azama skill which becomes pointless once he promoted and only activates if you're using your healer wrong).

If intelligent systems can think of someway to further expand the depth of pair up beyond what is presented here then yes it could be present for one more entry. Personally I think pair up has been perfected in fates and for that very reason it needs to be dropped. If it is not then this series will become iterative rather than innovative as it has been for almost every entry. The only entries that I could think that are very similar to one another are the DS games, even FE 6 & 7 which are very similar mechanically could not be more different games due to their map design, weapon, and unit balance. I want IS to show that they are bold enough to subvert the expectations of their new audience, yes it will be sad to see it go but wasn't just as sad to see 3rd tiers go away after Radiant Dawn and now that it hasn't appeared again doesn't make that game feel all the more unique that this feature is unique to it? I don't want the next entry to make the 3DS games irrelevant I want to feel like it's own thing.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Locke087

[Dinar87]

Believe you me I am all for the removal of bronze weapons I thought their existence was stupid in Awakening let alone Fates (Radiant Dawn was somewhat forgivable as if you had very limited cash they were something to spend it on and you were never forced to use them). With the new weapon system in place they need to think of a strategic niche for bronze weapons or lose them all together. So yeah I told agree if you're there and definitely we need decent weapon levels for promotions.

For forging that system seems like it has even more chance for abuse as now you could just buy the cheapest weapons of the shop for material if you need it, this system could mabye work if there was initial price to forge... at the end the day forged iron and steel weapons can't make silver weapons irrelevant that's the goal. Frankly I'm for the foundation of removing forge all together as it is in conflict with the current weapon system, by removing it altogether they would have more freedom to add a greater variety of difference weapons each weapon to be properly balanced in rarity and price, and some of these weapons would be only findable interests and could not be bought.

Completely agree with you on personal skills, there was a lot of good examples of personal skills in Fates (Like Elise's or Effie's) but there was way more bad ones and kind of okay ones that didn't complement there play style, or rewarded bad play (Like Azama skill which becomes pointless once he promoted and only activates if you're using your healer wrong).

If intelligent systems can think of someway to further expand the depth of pair up beyond what is presented here then yes it could be present for one more entry. Personally I think pair up has been perfected in fates and for that very reason it needs to be dropped. If it is not then this series will become iterative rather than innovative as it has been for almost every entry. The only entries that I could think that are very similar to one another are the DS games, even FE 6 & 7 which are very similar mechanically could not be more different games due to their map design, weapon, and unit balance. I want IS to show that they are bold enough to subvert the expectations of their new audience, yes it will be sad to see it go but wasn't just as sad to see 3rd tiers go away after Radiant Dawn and now that it hasn't appeared again doesn't make the game feel all the more unique that it is that feature exists nowhere else? I don't want the next entry to make the 3DS games irrelevant I want to feel like it's own thing.

About personal skills...why not have the kids' personal skills be a combination of the parents' personal skills? It'd make mixing and matching different parents actually mean something now (since skill inheritance as it currently is is pointless since you can buy skills now...with the exception of personal skills....see where I'm going with this).

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dinar87

[Magical Glace]

I've noticed that the royals in Fates (although not so much for my Corrin in my Conquest LP) and Chrom/Robin in Awakening are the gamebreakers. I actually question this to be honest, because I thought Fire Emblem is all about cherishing your units, leadership, and teamwork to win the game.

If Roy could promote at an earlier time (or had a higher cap for his unpromoted class), then I actually prefer this way of "physically weak leader utilises charisma to lead a strong army". Because as far as I am concerned, isn't leadership, charisma, and morale also important aspects in winning wars? In Roy's case, he could have an wide area-of-field effect that boosts his troop's, say, avoid, accuracy, and critical activation chance - which I will call as the charisma effect. Of course, there is the question of just how much bonus the game should allocate - something I haven't thought about. Too much, and the game becomes too easy. Not enough, and you might as well not bother. As his level grows, the boost becomes stronger and wide-reaching; it is basically translating raised morale into gameplay.

Other characters on a limited scope could also provide the same effect:

• Lilina: provides a lesser charisma effect for her Ostian soldiers (Barth, Bors, Wendy, and Oujay)
• Roy's love interest (female A-support partner): The love interest has a small charisma effect on everyone. (This includes Lilina, and her charisma will stack with the aforementioned.)
• Marcus: for the Phaere soldiers (Alan, Lance, Wolt)
• Echidna/Elphin/Lalum: for the Western Isles people
• Douglas: for the Etrurian army (Klein, Cecilia, Perceval et al)
• Zealot/Juno: For the Illian army (Thany, Tate et al)

Similarly, for Shadow Dragon, Marth and to a lesser extent, Caeda would have their charisma effect on everyone. For others:

• Jaygun: Abel, Cain, Gordon
• Ogma: Bord, Cord, and Barst
• Hardin: Roshea, Vyland, Sedgar and Wolf
• Minerva: Palla, Catria, Est, Maria

...Isn't this basically an expansion on Leadership Stars? From the Jugdral games.

Like, in FE4, some units give accuracy and avoid boosts to nearby allies and themself from their Leadership stars. In FE5 I don't think it matters how close you are so long as there's someone with Leadership deployed.

[Locke087]

About personal skills...why not have the kids' personal skills be a combination of the parents' personal skills? It'd make mixing and matching different parents actually mean something now (since skill inheritance as it currently is is pointless since you can buy skills now...with the exception of personal skills....see where I'm going with this).

Because it would be all kinds of broken, combos for some these personal skills could be absolutely devastating, if the avatar (or Jakob) and Felicia had a kid that kid could pair up with the avatar and make him pretty much invincible my goodness the bonuses, or if Xander and Effie had a kid suddenly that kid now has the possibility of dealing even more insane the amounts of damage. If you're trying to make a game with even a modicum of balance you have to make the parents personal skills almost pointless if you want to make the kids even slightly balanced. Unless you pull an FE 4 and make the second-generation accessible only after you can no longer use the first, then buff up the enemies the deal with the stronger children could you make it work.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Locke087

[Dinar87]

Because it would be all kinds of broken, combos for some these personal skills could be absolutely devastating, if the avatar (or Jakob) and Felicia had a kid that kid could part with the avatar and make him pretty much invincible my goodness the bonuses, or if Xander and Effie had a kid suddenly that kid now has the possibility of dealing even more insane the amounts of damage. If you're trying to make a game with even a modicum of balance you have to make the parents personal skills almost pointless if you want to make the kids even slightly balanced. Unless you pull an FE 4 and make the second-generation accessible only after you can no longer use the first, then buff up the enemies the deal with the stronger children could you make it work.

Well I would love another game like the jugdral games...even though I haven't even played them yet. What I've seen looks very cool and I'd love to see another game like them.

[Locke087]

Well I would love another game like the jugdral games...even though I haven't even played them yet. What I've seen looks very cool and I'd love to see another game like them.

Well you should play it then...

Anyways it should be kept in mind as I forgot to mention that FE 4 is not balanced in the slightest, just the idea could be used to balance it in theory, you're not gonna see it in practice if you play the game. Though the second-generation isn't really that much more broken than the first. That being said by necessity of the game has to be completable with the worst possible combinations so this makes it so the game can become unbalanced by nature if parents give their children a strong variability in stats.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Locke087

[Dinar87]

What do you guys think about the story of fates...is it any good? Would you want the next one to be more similar in style to a previous entry in the series or be entirely new in terms of execution. So would you rather have another game that handles the narrative similar to PoR or just have a new style altogether?

[eclipse]

So a post just went poof. The reason why is that there's a LOT of information in the Fates subforum regarding that. I strongly suggest reading backwards, and you'll see a lot of answers to that question. I absolutely do NOT want to see a rehash of that over here.

If you have no idea what search terms to use, PM me.

(For the curious, it had the word "story" in it, and I don't want to see anyone's two cents about it here. Go make a topic in the Fates subforum to talk about it for the millionth time.)

EDIT: Oh, right, and y'all want to PM TC about this, feel free to do so~! Keep in mind that he doesn't have the game yet, so don't spoil everything off the bat.

Edited November 7, 2016 by eggclipse

[Irysa]

*snip*

You're pretty much describing leadership stars and bond supports, which exist to various degrees in FE3, 4, 5, 9 and 10. It was 6 that started the trend of needing to unlock bonuses rather than being implict.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Haha cheers, eclipse!

At any rate, replying to the first post on this page, YO MY DUDE, im so sick of dragon and zombie type big bads and baddies. I liked Sacred Stones and Tellius because our big bads werent some kind of dragon. Sacred Stones unfortunately ran off of zombies though. Tellius, outside of Part 4 where its implied the majority of Disciples of Order are soulless shells, we had mostly human beings as our enemies. Even people we rooted for, were our enemies sometimes. There was something special about one of the chief orchestrators of the conflict being a guy you basically either loved before knowing about it, or thought was totally on the side of good.

I miss that shit.

[NekoKnight]

For forging that system seems like it has even more chance for abuse as now you could just buy the cheapest weapons of the shop for material if you need it, this system could mabye work if there was initial price to forge... at the end the day forged iron and steel weapons can't make silver weapons irrelevant that's the goal. Frankly I'm for the foundation of removing forge all together as it is in conflict with the current weapon system, by removing it altogether they would have more freedom to add a greater variety of difference weapons each weapon to be properly balanced in rarity and price, and some of these weapons would be only findable interests and could not be bought.

I think forging is a positive mechanic as it lets you customize your arsenal to fit your playstyle or to boost a character that needs the help. For the issue of buying cheap weapons for forging, I could see a system where lower ranked weapons produce less crafting materials than higher ranked ones

[CT075]

I don't think the series changed direction as much as I changed my tastes