FE10 Tierlist 2017

[Samias]

Rolf: He shares all of his time with Shinon and is very useful for chip early on, but since archers don't have an easy way to earn EXP other than dipping into the BEXP pool, he starts to fall behind. He's definitely very strong once he gets going, but because Shinon has such a huge headstart there is no real incentive to use Rolf except for favouritism. They will end up in the same place anyway. At least Rolf can man some ballistas and has decent starting stats given his low level.

Boyd: He hits things really really hard but his speed is pretty bad. I think he's very useful on lower difficulties but his inability to double things weighs down on him. Reaver is a really good class but since Boyd arrives with a boatload of equally good or better units, it's hard to polish up Boyd like you could for Nolan on the DBs, as Boyd is the one being babysat instead of the other way around. Still very useful for those early objectives, though, and not necessarily a liability, merely a disappointment considering how good he could be in PoR.

Oscar: He's well rounded to start, but his growths push him in a good direction for the future. He's at his best when he's teamed up with Titania to cover distant objectives. I find Oscar extremely reliable, but not totally outstanding. However he starts at a pretty high base level so he'll be one of the first GMs to probably reach promotion, right after Titania and Haar, which will give him a leg up over the others.

Shinon: He is an absurdly good sniper with crazy high skill and speed... and durability, for a change. If you want someone who won't miss his target even with the hit nerf beyond 3 panels, Shinon will fulfill that duty. The problem with most archers is that their low levels and low bases make it difficult for them to ever reach their stride, but because Shinon is already rocking great bases and a close promotion, he's one of the few unlikely to fall behind. Although having no good close range attacks for most of the game (crossbows are pretty weak without effective damage applied), Shinon rocks the promoted range boost harder than anyone.

Gatrie: Beastly, amazing bases and growths...kneecapped by his class caps and low movement. He's tanky as an armor knight should be, he has great strength, and his speed is crazy good. He's not really even lacking in skill or res! Seriously, if Gatrie wasn't an armor knight, he would be totally on par with Ike, maybe even better. Gatrie is just so good at combat overall that you could probably just toss him a brave lance, hammer and potentially even a wyrmslayer and he'd do fine on many an endgame chapter.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

7.5/10 for Shinon. Amazing level and bases, but is hindered by his class.

What do you exactly mean with that?

The caps or that snipers are only really effective from two range?

If you meant latter, then I have to admit that FE10 buffed this class with lots of great melee bows including double bow.

[Vicious Sal]

What do you exactly mean with that?

The caps or that snipers are only really effective from two range?

If you meant latter, then I have to admit that FE10 buffed this class with lots of great melee bows including double bow.

You get the Double bow for a whopping 4.5 chapters, which earns Leo, Rolf & Shinon maybe .5 of a point? Bows are inferior to all other weopons because of the lack of 1-2 range. Crossbows exists, but you miss out on using your str stat. Their only real uses is for pairing them with beastfoe.

Swords are also inferior, as wind edges cannot be forged, whereas javelins and hand axes can be forged. Forgable 1-2 range weapons have a significant advantage, since Ep is the phase that sees most of the battles.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Vicious Sal

[Shadow Mir]

What do you exactly mean with that?

The caps or that snipers are only really effective from two range?

If you meant latter, then I have to admit that FE10 buffed this class with lots of great melee bows including double bow.

Basically, the Double Bow is only relevant for endgame, and crossbows generally aren't that good other than Disarm botting or if they're getting effective damage. Which means it's the latter. It doesn't help matters that the strongest crossbow that isn't unique is only 28 Mt... Edited January 2, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I know that normal crossbows / bowguns aren't all that great because the strength stat isn't calculated, but unlike most other games close range bows exist in FE10.

That's the reason, why I think that archers are better than in other games.

Furthermore Shinon can kill several enemies with one single crit with the crossbow. I believe he can even oneround sages in the early part of part 3 without crit(s).

[Vicious Sal]

I know that normal crossbows / bowguns aren't all that great because the strength stat isn't calculated, but unlike most other games close range bows exist in FE10.

That's the reason, why I think that archers are better than in other games.

Furthermore Shinon can kill several enemies with one single crit with the crossbow. I believe he can even oneround sages in the early part of part 3 without crit(s).

I'm not arguing that archers in Fe10 are among the best the series has ever seen as far as their options pertaining to range go. However, we're not comparing them to other games, archers, even in FE10 are still a lot worse of than other classes in this game. The fact that FE10 archers have several assets in the form of crossbows does not directly make them valuable assets. They help, but it's not going to help them enough to get past their inherent hindrance that is their class.

[Shadow Mir]

I know that normal crossbows / bowguns aren't all that great because the strength stat isn't calculated, but unlike most other games close range bows exist in FE10.

That's the reason, why I think that archers are better than in other games.

Furthermore Shinon can kill several enemies with one single crit with the crossbow. I believe he can even oneround sages in the early part of part 3 without crit(s).

Well, sure, they exist, but the problem is they don't help enough to make up for the fact that their class hinders them to begin with. Also, so what if Shinon can kill with a crit with the crossbow? That requires you to get lucky... And Radiant Dawn has sky high enemy luck. And that isn't even touching on the fact that that ain't gonna last long. Edited January 2, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[ping]

Gatrie - amazing base stats and growths, but knight is still one of the worst classes to be in. He really wants a Crown since Def is the only important stat he doesn't cap super fast. This also means that his 60% speed growth is mostly wasted, because he can only proc it 9 times (in up to 29 level-ups!) anyway. Access to axes as a secondary weapon is nice on normal mode, grinding up from D swords is probably not really worth it, though. Gatrie does fine, but thanks to his awful class, others can do better. 6.5/10

Shinon - I like the intrinsic 3 range on the marksman, especially paired with the double bow in the tower. Until that point, Shinon is another unit that suffers really bad from his class, or more specific, his lack of decent weapons with 1-2 range. It's great that he can attack almost every foe without being countered after promotion, but all in all I don't think his class-related disadvantages are offset by his admittedly great stats. 6/10

Oscar - the lesser Pala of the GM, but still really useful for a good part of the game. He's the best support partner for Titania, I think, thanks to their shared movement speed and because everyone likes Earth affinities. He's not really the best pick for the tower climb, but before that, there's little reason not to use him. 7.5/10

Boyd - not too hot, honestly. His speed base is passable, but most of Greil's Mercenaries do better than him, making his offensive power relatively poor compared to them. He's in a great class though, and if he can reach doubling territory, he will be an amazing Reaver, but all in all, he's not a particularly noteworthy unit. 5/10

Rolf - now wouldn't it be great if your more well-distributed growths would allow you to actually surpass your master, given some time and effort? Unless we're talking about a run without BEXP or something like that, Shinon is the hedgehog to Rolf's hare (is this a thing in English? :D) - whereever Rolf is going, Shinon is already there, being able to do whatever Rolf can do, but earlier.

Still, Rolf isn't a terrible unit himself and I will not subtract any points just because Shinon exists. I still don't really like the Archer classline though, and Rolf has quite the journey ahead of him until he will promote to Marksman. All in all I don't see him as any better than 3/10.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Rolf: 6/10. He's kinda meh for a while but has great payoff later because his Str/Spd, aka the only stats archers need, are great. Shinon is better, of course, but there's little reason you can't use both if you feel like it.

Boyd: 3/10. On the other hand, I don't see the point here. Boyd isn't just outclassed by one person, but by at least three other high-Str axe users on the same team... and you could easily say it's 4 depending on how much Exp Brom got in Part 2. His base Spd/Def are the worst of the many part 3 axemen and axewomen (hell, his Str is too, though not by much), and his speed never really gets that great either.

Oscar: 7/10. He got nerfed a lot, but he's still a very solid unit, with mobility and earth affinity and a high starting level. His stats don't really impress but they don't disappoint either.

Shinon: 7/10. Shinon is good but a touch overrated here? Just because he might be the best archer in the series doesn't mean he's that great! He's kinda the opposite of Oscar, other than having similar starting level: bad class, good stats. He doubles almost everything and you don't worry about his durability, though the Str could be somewhat better.

Gatrie: 7.5/10. Slightly better than the above two I think. Gatrie is great at all the stats knights should be great at, but his speed isn't half-bad either, allowing him to double slower enemies. He's basically Haar with -3 move and no mount, though better Res (which matters; he's not one-shotted by thunder mages). Obviously that's much worse than Haar! But still pretty good.

If you trained Brom enough, he'll be better when he rejoins and fill that knight spot, leaving Gatrie even further behind. To be honest I think people overrate him purely because he's a GM.

Sorry, I have to call this out. It's extremely unlikely for Brom to be better than Gatrie upon join. On average, Brom needs to be...

Level 12 to match Gatrie's base HP
Level 17 to match Gatrie's base Str
Level 16 to match Gatrie's base Spd
Level 7 to match Gatrie's base Def
Level 10 to match Gatrie's base Res

It takes significant favouritism for Brom to reach any of these thresholds except the one for Def and maaaybe Res. So at most he will have better luck, skill (offset by Gatrie having secondary weapon rank above E), and maybe slightly better Def, and will lose everything else, especially since Gatrie has two maps to gain levels in before Brom joins, too.

I like Brom the character better than Gatrie the character too, and I wish he was the better unit, but in RD he's rather clearly not.

[Anacybele]

Rolf: I swear they must've accidentally switched his str growth with Boyd's or Ike's, because it makes NO sense for him to have higher str than guys like Boyd or Ike...seriously. But this is the only thing that makes Rolf usable in my opinion, since he starts off really low level and with mediocre bases. And there's not a lot of reason to use him when Shinon exists. 7/10

Boyd: Powerhouse alert! Boyd's got speed issues, but he still has the strength and HP to be a good unit and since Nolan tends to fall behind other units like the rest his group does, you can't do no wrong with Boyd as his replacement. 7/10

Oscar: He's a Paladin with stats like a Myrmidon, but can actually take hits! I like it. It's just too bad that his strength growth is so awful. 8/10

Shinon: This guy was the best archer in the series before Takumi and his crazy bow showed up, imo. Shinon has virtually no weakness, is strong and fast, and can take a couple hits. He's as ridiculous as Ike and Haar! 9.5/10

Gatrie: A Knight/General with speed?! And a 60% speed growth no less?! that's nuts. But totally awesome. And he's got the high strength and def growth to go with it. Gatrie is the best of his class in this game by far and there's no reason not to use him over the others. He does still suffer from low movement and low low res like his class typically does though. 8/10

[Sweet_Basil]

Rolf: 6

He's Shinnon-lite and turns into great unit if you put some effort into him, he's ok at base but not anything spectacular. Also bowguns/crossbows kind of suck, but at least archers have 1-range right?

Boyd: 7.5

He's kind of like a slower version of Ike but with Axes, I give them a similar rating. Boyd is amazing at endgame though.

Oscar: 8.5

He's a high mobility unit with a lot of availability. He's not as strong as Titania but he's useful.

Shinnon: 7

He's not the best bow user that would be Takumi. He is really useful and I always find that he crits a lot. The only flaws I can think of is that crossbows suck and there's stronger units that have better 1-2 range. I think I might bump him into a 7.5 or 8 though, idk.

Gatrie: 9

I love Gatrie, he is by far one of my favorite Knights in the series, although I really like Meg too. Gatrie's flaw is his mobility, celerity can fix that or you can have someone like Oscar/Titania/Haar ferry him around. He's probably not going to die against the enemy because of his amazing defenses. I can't tell who the best knight in the series is because Effie is really good too but I think it's a tie between them. I would have prefered of IS shipped Astrid with him instead of Makalov, that way she could have had more availability in this game and get jealous with Lyre.

Boyd: 3/10. On the other hand, I don't see the point here. Boyd isn't just outclassed by one person, but by at least three other high-Str axe users on the same team... and you could easily say it's 4 depending on how much Exp Brom got in Part 2. His base Spd/Def are the worst of the many part 3 axemen and axewomen (hell, his Str is too, though not by much), and his speed never really gets that great either.

Axes are some of the best weapons in the game, there's no reason to hold that against him like we're rushing to use swords or something. Also Brom are you serious? No way! If you're willing to turtle for Brom then I feel like you're being too harsh on Boyd. If you think Boyd has issues doubling enemies then Brom isn't going to be much better, he has less base speed than Boyd and 15% less base speed growth than Boyd.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Sweet_Basil

[Dark Holy Elf]

I never said Brom was faster than Boyd. He isn't. However, his base speed is only 2 lower with 6 levels in hand, so it's entirely possible that they'll be quite similar there, as well as in Str. At that point it's a question of whether you prefer Brom's far greater durability or Boyd's +1 move.

Calling Boyd a "slower version of Ike" undersells how big the gap between the two is. Not only does Ike beat him by 5 speed (which is the difference between doubling most enemies and doubling almost none), he has a 6-point lead in Def as well, substantially more accuracy (+8 skill and swords), and earth affinity. Ike destroys him. Brom is a much better comparison.

[Augestein]

I'd take the +1 move from Boyd to be honest. I find that Boyd is fast durable enough against most things.

[Radiant head]

i like brom more in the sense that he's valuable in the part two chapters and boyd is useless in part 3, but can't say he's as good as boyd when they're in the same chapters. i rarely deploy either in part 3 tbh

Edited January 2, 2017 by Radiant head

[Shadow Mir]

Tbf, I think Brom's better than Boyd - the latter's biorhythm wave gives way to wild swings in his performance, which makes him unreliable, and that's not touching on the part where Boyd isn't really all that useful in the initial part 3 chapters, as opposed to Brom, who's valuable in the part 2 chapters.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Sweet_Basil]

Tbf, I think Brom's better than Boyd - the latter's biorhythm wave gives way to wild swings in his performance, which makes him unreliable, and that's not touching on the part where Boyd isn't really all that useful in the initial part 3 chapters, as opposed to Brom, who's valuable in the part 2 chapters.

Lucia being more pivotal in Part 2 than Mia could ever hope to be in Part 3 doesn't make her better than Mia.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

i like brom more in the sense that he's valuable in the part two chapters and boyd is useless in part 3, but can't say he's as good as boyd when they're in the same chapters. i rarely deploy either in part 3 tbh

Tbf, I think Brom's better than Boyd - the latter's biorhythm wave gives way to wild swings in his performance, which makes him unreliable, and that's not touching on the part where Boyd isn't really all that useful in the initial part 3 chapters, as opposed to Brom, who's valuable in the part 2 chapters.

Honestly I have to agree with Brom > Boyd, because Brom is super necessary in 2-P unlike Boyd who never really is needed.

I will change their votes... as for some others.

[Shadow Mir]

Lucia being more pivotal in Part 2 than Mia could ever hope to be in Part 3 doesn't make her better than Mia.

True enough, but at the same time, Lucia doesn't have the availability that Mia does, so... Edited January 2, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Sweet_Basil]

True enough, but at the same time, Lucia doesn't have the availability that Mia does, so...

I should have used Edward, but I actually do think he's better than Mia.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Lucia being more pivotal in Part 2 than Mia could ever hope to be in Part 3 doesn't make her better than Mia.

It would if Mia were mediocre. Alternatively: it makes Lucia better than Edward.

[Sweet_Basil]

It would if Mia were mediocre. Alternatively: it makes Lucia better than Edward.

Does that mean Stefan is the worst of them all?

[Radiant head]

yep, unless you count vague katti as a stefan contribution

Edited January 3, 2017 by Radiant head

[-Cynthia-]

18 base AS is pretty unfortunate for Boyd yeah- though with a speed transfer 20 AS is workable. People didn't seem to bring up how slow Soren is though (same base speed as Boyd with 10% lower growth and Boyd's speed caps are much better).

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Soren's speed is easier to fix than Boyd's with bexp.

Also Boyd with speed transfer is also only slightly more useful. He can double thunder sages maybe, the enemies who hurt him the most.

Also my vote changes:

Boyd: from 6 to 5

Brom: from 5 to 5.5

Titania: from 9 to my origin vote of 8.5 because she's not that epic. Even with speed transfer she can't oneround halberdiers and warriors in HM unlike transfer Ike. So she's slightly worse than him.

Rhys: from 4 to 5

Mist: I leave her vote because she has more potential than Rhys. Even usable in endgame.

Volug: from 8 to 8.5

Gatrie: from 8.5 to 8

Rolf: I leave his vote because he has way more potential than Boyd. If you seriously rise him, he'll become comparable with him by giving bexp. I think a "punishment" of two points for the babying is fair enough. He's still a very usable unit despite Shinon's existence.

Will update the list later... since I'm a bit tired right now.

[Radiant head]

i don't think rolf is even competing with shinon, at least anymore than any other unit. ignoring rolf is perfectly valid because the game gives you more than enough units including shinon who don't need babying, but that would be the case even if shinon didn't exist, and you had some non-archer with similar stats.

if anything, having two marksman is kind of a more the merrier kind of thing, especially if you put one of them in tibarn's team.