FE10 Tierlist 2017

[Radiant head]

Do I spell it out for you.

wasn't that clear, yeah

Edited December 26, 2016 by Radiant head

[Quintessence]

Wrath is in fact not a good idea for Leo because he's not facing a lot of counters, and should not be left on enemy range. Micaiah can play with Wrath+Sacrifice but she isn't doubling so much, so the skill will be a waste on her because she'll have less chances of dealing a crt. I've done it for 1-4 and 1-5 and it kinda worked but it didn't make wonders.

[Junkhead]

Alright, I understand your points.

I'll fix the class limits.

Heh... I was exactly thinking about this.

It'd increase the spectrum of D.

Honestly putting someone with an average of 4.5 into E is a bit harsh.

I guess I'll increase the spectrum of C + D a bit.

Wrath is only one good in 1-4 because one tiger brings him down to wrath-zone.

In the prolog he can use it too since he suvives three level 3 brigands with exactly 1 HP.

As for the other chapters in part 1, one hit isn't enough and he might can take only take two steel lances.

It's really hard to bring his HP down to <30%.

In 3-6 you can use the exact the same strategy as in 1-4.

The reason why I think Edward is still good in hard mode is less because of wrath, but rather because of his strength and speed.

He's the only first tier unit besides Jill with transfer boost in speed who's able to double most stuff in part 1.

He can oneround some enemies and claim free kills with the brave lance.

And unlike in NM he does a good job against lances. With support he can take even two steel lances in his face.

Wrath needs 15 points (unlike in FE9) and first Leonardo doesn't have the capacity.

This also disqualifies Ilyana.

You should think more in general cases, not just chapters specific. It's just a matter of knowing how to use chokepoints and being creative. In a vacuum, Micaiah is a 1 because she gets 1HKO'd by everything. In an actual game, she shouldn't bevm taking hits in the first place.

wasn't that clear, yeah

What they said: Capacity

So you're apparently using an early Seal and sacrificing a lot of Exp gain just so they can do the same Micaiah does? Edward can do that and double (and fix any Mt/Hit issues by supporting Leo, Micaiah or Nolan for extra Avo).

Edited December 26, 2016 by Soul~!

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I know that Micaiah will be oneshotted, but one single sacrifice will bring her to wrath zone automatically.

Edward's wrath is only really good with the wind edge, preferable in chapters with ledges like 1-5, 1-7 and 1-E.

[Shadow Mir]

What they said: Capacity

So you're apparently using an early Seal and sacrificing a lot of Exp gain just so they can do the same Micaiah does? Edward can do that and double (and fix any Mt/Hit issues by supporting Leo, Micaiah or Nolan for extra Avo).

You could stand to fix that link.

Anyways, even with him being the only tier 1 unit aside from Micaiah who can make use of it, Wrath's still about as suitable for Edward as Cancel is for Leonardo.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[ping]

But that's their role, a unit that needs to fight not necessarily has to face a counter because they easily can nuke and rush the enemy. That's what glass canon units work, only hit hard but don't get countered. Additionally, not every fight unit or mage has to be a glass cannon. If they can face hits and tank like a thwomp then that's a bonus trait they have but a judgement should be based on how they fill a role.

Archers are that way because they were designed as such, and I don't find any flaws in it because it fills a strategic niche. They're supposed to snipe from afar without getting hit and there are a lot of good examples, while others require some investment and work, even in Leonardo's case.

But what if other units do the killing part as good or nearly as good as the designated glass cannon? How often is Ilyana's magic really the only good option to murder someone? Micaiah at least has her Thany bombing going for her, but Ilyana competes with powerhouses as Volug, Sothe or Tauroneo who should do just fine offensively and outclass her by a mile on the defensive side.

And why would I use a bow if a hand axe's raw numbers (9 Mt, 70 hit) aren't that much worse than those of a steel bow (10 Mt, 80 hit)? The advantage is so small that it hardy matters compared to the worse survivability on Leo's side and the lack of 1-2 range.

Reading through like 10 pages of the thread and finding the common argument of "don't waste your time and effort in X, Y is tons better and stomps enemies" in a Tier List is not a good argument for 1) a list supposed to serve as a guide to inexperienced players, 2) a series like FE that has tons of replay value and 3) a game like RD where you have 77 ~ characters at your disposal to experience the game and its cast in so many refreshing ways.

I would not recommend any tier list as a beginner's guide. Especially in a game like this where availability is such a big factor for our scores. Look at Tormod and Leonardo - Tormod ranks a bit lower than Leo, but during part 1 he is better in every single way and avoiding to use him would just make some of the fights unnecessarily difficult. We (or at least I) try to rate the contributions a character makes, not which one I would field when I have to choose. I'll take FE6 as an example - Marcus is very definitely more valuable for the player than Karel, but when Karel joins, Marcus' work has been done for about half of the game. But in a tier list, I would still rate Marcus much higher than Karel.

If new players want to take anything of value out of this thread, they would have to read how we justify our scores. The number we get at the end really doesn't help.

[Augestein]

I would not recommend any tier list as a beginner's guide. Especially in a game like this where availability is such a big factor for our scores. Look at Tormod and Leonardo - Tormod ranks a bit lower than Leo, but during part 1 he is better in every single way and avoiding to use him would just make some of the fights unnecessarily difficult. We (or at least I) try to rate the contributions a character makes, not which one I would field when I have to choose. I'll take FE6 as an example - Marcus is very definitely more valuable for the player than Karel, but when Karel joins, Marcus' work has been done for about half of the game. But in a tier list, I would still rate Marcus much higher than Karel.

There's some truth to this, however, "contributions" means way too much to many people. If a person looks at a "tier list" for characters, they want to know 2 things:

1) Who are the characters,

2) And which ones can they use to cruise through the game.

Having something like Marcus being rated super high on the tier list when you know that his stats are going to not be on par later in the game is a huge misnomer to anyone that doesn't play Fire Emblem all the time. What should be done is that Marcus should have like a score of 6.5/10 and say things like "god in the early game, and not so hot later in the game. Use sparingly to help your other units level." This means that you're telling the player that he's good, but under normal circumstances, he's not carrying you to the end. A unit that's 10/10 would be any unit that joins, is good, and never stops being good forever... You know, someone like Percival, or Camilla, or Haar, or Raven. Otherwise it just becomes this weird "he's around a lot and can help so he's better than this one guy that joins later and rocks the house."

[Quintessence]

But what if other units do the killing part as good or nearly as good as the designated glass cannon? How often is Ilyana's magic really the only good option to murder someone? Micaiah at least has her Thany bombing going for her, but Ilyana competes with powerhouses as Volug, Sothe or Tauroneo who should do just fine offensively and outclass her by a mile on the defensive side.

And why would I use a bow if a hand axe's raw numbers (9 Mt, 70 hit) aren't that much worse than those of a steel bow (10 Mt, 80 hit)? The advantage is so small that it hardy matters compared to the worse survivability on Leo's side and the lack of 1-2 range.

I would not recommend any tier list as a beginner's guide. Especially in a game like this where availability is such a big factor for our scores. Look at Tormod and Leonardo - Tormod ranks a bit lower than Leo, but during part 1 he is better in every single way and avoiding to use him would just make some of the fights unnecessarily difficult. We (or at least I) try to rate the contributions a character makes, not which one I would field when I have to choose. I'll take FE6 as an example - Marcus is very definitely more valuable for the player than Karel, but when Karel joins, Marcus' work has been done for about half of the game. But in a tier list, I would still rate Marcus much higher than Karel.

If new players want to take anything of value out of this thread, they would have to read how we justify our scores. The number we get at the end really doesn't help.

If another unit does what Ilyana does and better then it should be rated higher than her, but not rating her bad with a 3 and the other one 9 because of the sole existence of the other one, that's my point. I'm speaking in general cases, specifically in roles, not in specific cases because other things should be considered, but what matters is the choice the player makes.

If I want to use a bow over a hand axe, that's the player's choice, in the same way if it wants to use Leo over Nolan, for example. One can advice and teach the player through this guide by telling it how to use units in a good way, but not come up with "use this, avoid the plague", because it restricts the player, builds fear upon using units, and besides, a lot of them are over statements (or are felt like). One can work up units in RD, making them all viable with the system, not necessarily turtling and slow pacing the game.

[ping]

If another unit fills Ilyana's niche just as well as she does and is generally better in most other situations, I'd say a 3/10 seems reasonable. ;) But again, a tier list such as this cannot replace a well-made guide in any way.

Having something like Marcus being rated super high on the tier list when you know that his stats are going to not be on par later in the game is a huge misnomer to anyone that doesn't play Fire Emblem all the time. What should be done is that Marcus should have like a score of 6.5/10 and say things like "god in the early game, and not so hot later in the game. Use sparingly to help your other units level." This means that you're telling the player that he's good, but under normal circumstances, he's not carrying you to the end. A unit that's 10/10 would be any unit that joins, is good, and never stops being good forever... You know, someone like Percival, or Camilla, or Haar, or Raven. Otherwise it just becomes this weird "he's around a lot and can help so he's better than this one guy that joins later and rocks the house."

Sounds about right (although I probably wouldn't give Raven a 10). But it's rather difficult to average out the comments about a unit. ;) If someone wanted to do a character guide, a democratic approach like here just doesn't work. It would probably be best if someone with the ability to change their opinion when presented with new facts made an initial draft and changed it according to the input he gets from other players. And a score would probably even be counterproductiv because it would imply that Marcus' role in the game would be comparable to units like maybe Fir or Gonzales who have a similar score but play fundamentally different.

(This is not meant as the start of a discussion about FE6 units ;) If you think I'm totally off with Fir and Gonzales, please don't explain to me why)

tl;dr: The list we'll have at the end of this is mostly a fun-to-know document for players who have already beaten the game and who are curious what other players' opinions of a specific character are.

[Augestein]

No I get you, it's just I remember reading guides when I was younger and just got confused by them as you'd have people saying characters were good because they were "around a lot," and that didn't make any sense to me at all. It just made me annoyed because I just took it as a "I should do what I want instead.

[eclipse]

Someone would have to make a tier list and define the criteria VERY strictly (along the lines of "if all you can see is efficiency/LTC, get out"). A beginner isn't going to know about all of the stupid little tricks that a veteran would, and it would take someone who remembers the beginner's mindset to make/curate such a list. I could probably pull it off for FE7/FE11/Fates/maybe Awakening, but that's about it.

As for Marcus, I agree with the fact that he probably isn't FE6 endgame material. He does just fine in FE7, including that one time I got him Basilikos.

Regardless, I wouldn't trust this tier list as a beginner's guide.

Edited December 26, 2016 by eggclipse

[Quintessence]

I didn't mean to make the list some robust guide with complex strategies, etc., but rather that the arguments include constructive ideas or suggestions about how to work with a unit, not like "eww bases, eww growths, don't use"; but I see this isn't the case. I was speaking in the case that, given that FE is welcoming newer players, any player could found valuable info about virtues, flaws, contributions and ways to work with the unit or investment required to make the unit work well. Nothing too complex or highly elaborated.

Another thing that would've been nice is if the OP included a defined criteria to evaluate units, as well as difficulty mode. But, in general, people won't agree on how a unit should be ranked: one will praise more contributions than the others, another one will value a lot the investment on a unit while others won't be in the mood to do so when other unit is ready to go, and so on. All of this to try to decrease the variance of the rankings, but for example, some people give Edward an 8 while others give him a 3.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Quintessence

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Heather

Growthrates (%)

HP: 40

Strength: 25

Magic: 20

Skill: 50

Speed: 70

Luck: 75

Defense: 30

Resistance: 40

Skill: pass

Affinity: fire

Heather is a thief with very high base speed but low base strength. With her 15 base strength she can’t steal every weapon (steel axe…). Also in combat don’t expect from her to oneround anything except magic users maybe.

However she has some uses: In 2-E she can steal the dracoshield from the general, in 3-2 and 3-3 she can steal some nice stuff (storm sword, statue frog) and the energy drop from Lombroso in 3-5. Also there are few chapters she can steal some staves, if you really need them.

Pass can be helpful sometimes.

Combatwise Heather’s not great, but for stealing she fulfills her purpose.

5 / 10

_____________

Lucia

Growthrates (%)

HP: 50

Strength: 25

Magic: 20

Skill: 70

Speed: 60

Luck: 30

Defense: 15

Resistance: 50

Skill: parity

Affinity: earth

Lucia is playable in 2-2 and fulfills more or less the role of a „Jeigen“. She can take a few hits but more likely she’ll dodge everything. After that you won’t see her until part 4.

With her bases she won’t do all that much anymore. She’s still usable in 4-2, if you forge her a silver sword, but honestly there’s absolute no point to invest in her. She’s the worst swordmaster in the game growthwise. Her strength and defense are awful. Her earth-affinity doesn’t change anything since Zihark has this affinity too who’ll turn out much better than her.

Parity is great in endgame but only screws her in 2-2 since she has three authority stars.

If she was playable in more chapters and her strength and defense grew as well as her breasts, I’d give her much more credits..

4 / 10

_________________

Lethe

Growthrates (%)
HP: 85

Strength: 35

Magic: 5

Skill: 30

Speed: 50

Luck: 45

Defense: 35

Resistance: 20

Skill: -

Affinity: heaven

Lethe suffers from all the problems each Laguz has: like no experience gain. Furthermore she’s a cat.

She’s only usable in part 2. She can take a few hits and double pretty much everyone. After that she’s useless with her stats. Her damageoutput is bad and she won’t be able to double anymore. At least she’s usable… unlike her little sister…

3.5 / 10

_________________________

Mordecai

Growthrates (%)

HP: 90

Strength: 35
Magic: 10

Skill: 25

Speed: 15

Luck: 80

Defense: 45

Resistance: 15

Skill: smite

Affinity: thunder

He's way more usable than Lethe because of his better strength and defense base and for being a tiger.

In part 2 he’s the wall because physical enemies can’t hurt him at all.

In part 3 he’s still usable but you don’t need him anymore because you have tons of better units than him.

Of all the tigers he's the best one.

5.5 / 10

__________________

Geoffrey

Growthrates (%)

HP: 60

Strength: 50

Magic: 10

Skill: 60

Speed: 35

Luck: 30

Defense: 30

Resistance: 55

Skill: paragon

Affinity: fire

Geoffrey could be a great silver paladin because he joins with high level and accroding high bases and has free paragon… if he wouldn’t be another victim of the availibility issues in FE10.

He’s usable in 2-3 where he gains like no exp. except for killing the boss. In 2-E he joins after you normally have beaten Ludveck already.

After that he joins in one more chapter (3-9), before he’ll disappear till the last map before the endgame. It’s possible to train him in 4-4 but it’s extremly painful (similar to Tormod).

He does his job well in the chapters you get him but it's very hard to make him usable in endgame.

5 / 10

Edited February 5, 2017 by Eleanor Hume

[Radiant head]

heather - not great at combat, but really useful thief for the mercs. also decent for trolling in 2-e if you decide to play it defensively. 4.5/10

lucia - good in 2-2, and...that's it? trainable in part 4 if you like her, but nothing special. 4/10

lethe - again good in 2-2, and like heather useful for a defensive play of 2-e, and then as an npc she's alright in 3-1. and that's it. she has all the flaws of laguz in this game in terms of gauge and exp gain, is a cat which means the gauge is even worse, and isn't strong enough a combat unit for those problem being worth it. especially compared to ranulf who frustratingly would be amazing if it wasn't for gauge. 4/10

mordecai - awesome in 2-2 and tanking in 2-e. is alright in part 3, but kind of outclassed. i guess he's sort of like brom in that way. he's actually pretty solid in part 4 in micaiah's army, where people who can navigate the desert are appreciated. resolve makes him incredible, but he's got some stiff competition for that skill. 6/10, bias included.

geoffrey - excellent in 2-3, really good in 3-9...and then he's gone until part 4. like his sister, he's still trainable in part 4, especially if you don't rip paragon off of him (though that's very hard to justify in normal or hard mode). still, he fills his role in the game just fine. 5.5/10, +.5 for bias, love his design and support with elincia.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Radiant head

[eclipse]

Heather - Falls flat on her face as a character. She's not much better as a unit, because things tend to die before she can steal stuff. It's still free stuff, so I guess? 5/10

Lucia - She loses her long hair and most of her availability. Her availability issues are especially painful, due to the fact that she needs to be front and center to smack things/use a Wind Sword. Parity does more harm than good. 3/10

Lethe - She'd be decent, if cat gauge didn't suck, and if the game didn't throw three cats at you. She's a decent filler unit, but her gauge is going to kick her ass, hard. 4.5/10

Mordecai - Tiger gauge is a lot more manageable, and Shove is a really nice utility skill. He's not going to Haar-solo everything, but he'll do nicely as a half-decent wall. 5.5/10

Geoffrey - Can't fault Elincia's taste in men! It's a pity that he's around for two chapters before Part 4, because he'll perform a lot better than his sister. His Speed growth is awful, which is a pity. 4.5/10, with bias because I like him.

[Shadow Mir]

Isn't it 28-32 now?

Anyways...

5.5/10 for Heather. Free stuff is nice, especially when combined with Disarm from someone else *cough Shinon cough*.

3.5/10 for Lucia. She's good in part 2, but then disapoofs until part 4, where you could try to make something of her, though it kinda sucks.

2/10 for Lethe. Her bases are rather underwhelming for her level, for one, she's a cat, the worst laguz class in the game, for two (and her being a cat makes the gauge problem even worse than it already is), and third, she's not even that useful in part 2. And that's ignoring all the typical laguz problems, as well as the fact that for all the flak her sister gets as a unit, she ain't much better.

7/10 for Mordecai. He's practically a stone wall to anything physical when transformed, and one of the few non-royal laguz who manages to not suck.

5/10 for Geoffrey. Spends two chapters being your best unit, then vanishes until endgame's right around the corner. At least he joined up with the right group to play catch-up...

Edited December 27, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Sweet_Basil]

Heather: 6
She's not that helpful in her starting map but then after that one her presence is more appreciated. Overall she's a good unit that can steal some nice items for your team.

Lucia: 4
She's the star player in that one map and then the game cuts off her beautiful long hair and steals away her potential to be the best swordmaster in the game. All this only to have her return with no auto-level. Which means she's dealing no damage as an npc in 3-10 and has very little room to grow for endgame.

Lethe: 3.5
Lethe was much better in the previous game, but she leaves much to be desired in this game. The good thing is that she's not her sister. The bad thing is that she's forever haunted with that cat gauge and laguz don't gain much experience fighting. So if you want to raise her she'll need Bexp and/or to fight untransformed to gain exp. In Part 2 she's ok for the same map I previously mentioned, and then she kind of disappears for me. I've used her before and she's got potential but also has drawbacks.

Mordecai: 6
I find him quite helpful as a wall-type unit, even untransformed he can take a hit or two. Even if I don't use him as a main fighter I find him helpful with other things like transportation and shoving/smiting other units. As a combat unit he never really double though unless he's got resolve.

Geoffrey: 5
He's the best unit for two chapters and then he disappears all the way until that one chapter before endgame. He's got the least potential to grow out of the CRK because his exp gain is so minimal, even with paragon, and his availability is cut even shorter! Why? He already joined mega-late the last time. It sucks because I quite like his design.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Sweet_Basil

[ping]

Heather - thief/10. Kind of difficult to rate, imo, because while the steals in parts 2 and 3 aren't really necessary, it's still nice to get some stat boosters and weapons (and BEXP in 3-3, in a way). 6/10 seems reasonable.

Lucia - OP in 2-2 and that's about it. I never found good use for her in part 4, so it' really just that one chapter for her to shine. I suppose she's still usable, but her stats really aren't that great when she rejoins. 3.5/10

Lethe - Compared to Lucia, she has 2-E as an additional "good" chapter, but as soon as the GM arrive, her stats are mediocre at best and her Cat gauge (which is already annoying during part 2) doesn't do her any favors. Not a great unit, all things considered. 3.5/10

Mordecai - 32 base defense when transformed is actually pretty neat, Tiger gauge isn't as terrible as Cat, and Smite combined with Mordecai's high Con gives him some nice utility. It's much easier to find a spot on the team for him than for Lethe, that's for sure. 6.5/10

mordecai - awesome in 2-2 and tanking in 2-e. is alright in part 3, but kind of outclassed. i guess he's sort of like brom in that way. he's actually pretty solid in part 4 in micaiah's army, where people who can navigate the desert are appreciated. resolve makes him incredible, but he's got some stiff competition for that skill. 6/10, bias included.

Smite makes him even more valuable in the desert. =)

Geoffrey - Amazing in his debut chapter, arrives a bit too late in 2-E for my taste (even though I usually don't Haar-skip it), then returns for a single chapter in part 3 (in which he's still really good, though) and disappears again until basically endgame... :/ 4/10, I guess, even though I really like him, but it's really just the 2 (or 2,5) chapters for him.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Brom ranked worse than Laura is a darn sin!

Down with the flu, here's my short versions:

Heather:

You suck, one of the worst units of the game.

2.5/10

Lucia:

Also terrible.

3/10

Lethe:

One of the worst Laguz.

3/10

Mordecai:

He can be pretty great with some training. Not Caineghis-level great, but great.

8/10

Geoffrey:

Can be useful but there's better out there.

7/10

[BrightBow]

Heather - Way too weak for serious combat. Her thieving abilities can be fun to use but are never necessary.

3/10

Lucia - She is good in one chapter, then you don't get to use her again until part 3, at which point she is rather fragile and weak. Seriously, I mean 18 str? 14 def? Those are literally Sothe's base stats. And she lacks the growths to dig herself out of that hole.

2.5/10

Lethe - She struggles to deal any damage, yet kills barely grant her any EXP. That's not even taking into account that cats have a terrible class, with an awful transformation gauge, no ranged attacks and low caps that she can't even reach.

2/10

Mordecai - Mordecai is hilarious. He is 5 levels lower then Lethe, yet he has +10 Str and +14 points of Def on her. His durability is exceptionally and makes him quite an asset in Part 2. But in Part 3, he is overshadowed by plenty of other units who are sufficiently beefy, yet far better then him at actually killing enemies. But at least he is still one hell of a Smiter, with his high movement and massive Constitution.

6/10

Geoffrey - He has a strong showing in 2 chapters in Part 2 + 3 and afterwards isn't seen until the very end of Part 4, at which point he is painfully outmatched.

3.5/10

Edited December 27, 2016 by BrightBow

[Dark Holy Elf]

Heather: 5/10. She steals things. She can kinda combat a little if you really want, but isn't great at it. This is the best rating for today.

Lucia:: 3.5/10. She's really good on one map, then bad. Not so different from the Tormod crew.

Lethe: 3.5/10. Not as good as Lucia in 2-2, but also has 2-E. Then she's kinda mediocre (though does benefit a lot from Energy Drops). Cat gauge is a bit overhated (you need 15 turns + combats to require an additional Olivi Grass compared to tigers or wolves) but it's the gauge in general is a problem she doesn't need. Decent in endgame if you get her there (laguz gems + actually gets to SS strike easily) but nothing great.

Mordecai: 3.5/10. Also mediocre. I feel like Serenes overrates tigers. He never doubles (barring the odd knight in 2-E) which means both bad offence and halved strike gauge gain so all he's really good for is being a wall with a ticking gauge who is outclassed by half a dozen other better walls in part 3. Brom minus.

Geoffrey: 4/10. Like Lucia except he has two maps (plus his forgettable no-authority showing in 2-E). But even in 3-9 I find myself using him as little as possible due to knowing what's coming; Kieran has pretty much identical stats and actually sticks around, and Marcia has a huge mobility edge in a map where it matters a lot.

What an underwhelming group.

[Shadow Mir]

Heather: 5/10. She steals things. She can kinda combat a little if you really want, but isn't great at it. This is the best rating for today.

Lucia:: 3.5/10. She's really good on one map, then bad. Not so different from the Tormod crew.

Lethe: 3.5/10. Not as good as Lucia in 2-2, but also has 2-E. Then she's kinda mediocre (though does benefit a lot from Energy Drops). Cat gauge is a bit overhated (you need 15 turns + combats to require an additional Olivi Grass compared to tigers or wolves) but it's the gauge in general is a problem she doesn't need. Decent in endgame if you get her there (laguz gems + actually gets to SS strike easily) but nothing great.

Mordecai: 3.5/10. Also mediocre. I feel like Serenes overrates tigers. He never doubles (barring the odd knight in 2-E) which means both bad offence and halved strike gauge gain so all he's really good for is being a wall with a ticking gauge who is outclassed by half a dozen other better walls in part 3. Brom minus.

Geoffrey: 4/10. Like Lucia except he has two maps (plus his forgettable no-authority showing in 2-E). But even in 3-9 I find myself using him as little as possible due to knowing what's coming; Kieran has pretty much identical stats and actually sticks around, and Marcia has a huge mobility edge in a map where it matters a lot.

What an underwhelming group.

I disagree on cat gauge being overhated - that extra -1 they get compared to tigers, hawks, and ravens limits them even more. Edited December 27, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[ping]

Mordecai: 3.5/10. Also mediocre. I feel like Serenes overrates tigers. He never doubles (barring the odd knight in 2-E) which means both bad offence and halved strike gauge gain so all he's really good for is being a wall with a ticking gauge who is outclassed by half a dozen other better walls in part 3. Brom minus.

Let's see how Kyza will do. ;)

But I'll actually go down to 5.5 with my vote, because that's what Brom got, too. I think Mordecai's value over time is about the same as Broms - great in part 2, kinda OK in parts 3 and (less so) 4, but no Tower material at all. I really like his Smite skill and that he has the Con to use it on (iirc) every non-mounted unit, though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'd be much more down for hyping his smite ability if this were PoR and he could smite mounted units. As is I just don't recall many things he can smite that, say, Ike can't. I'm sure they exist (some of the transformed laguz surely) but it's not enough for me to deploy him.

I disagree on cat gauge being overhated - that extra -1 they get compared to tigers, hawks, and ravens limits them even more.

As I said in my post, it's one extra lost turn to using Olivi Grass every 15 turns+battles. Yes, it matters; no, the difference isn't large. Granted Lethe isn't great anyway (and Lyre sucks) so whatever, but Ranulf had better score above the tigers at least.

[Shadow Mir]

As I said in my post, it's one extra lost turn to using Olivi Grass every 15 turns+battles. Yes, it matters; no, the difference isn't large. Granted Lethe isn't great anyway (and Lyre sucks) so whatever, but Ranulf had better score above the tigers at least.

And that isn't a problem when laguz tend to not have much of an enemy phase? To put it into perspective, for most laguz, three combats and a turn take off 13 points from their gauge, but a cat loses 17 points - more than half their gauge - to the same (and they'd lose 13 gauge to only two enemies and a turn), and would need to grass up if they wanted to stay transformed. Anyways, if I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up about Ranulf...

Edited December 27, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia