You deny that 40% strength and 30% defense as good growths for a tiny mage?
That's Ilyana-likish who only beats Sanaki in strength by 5%.
On paper they're decent, but they don't even come close to making up for the bases. Sanaki's def is so bad that Tormod, Soren, Calill, and Ilyana can all literally gain 0 points of Def from levels and will still beat her by 1-6 points in Tier 3 with promotion bonuses alone. Laura and Micaiah will be equal.
In Sanaki's defence there's a chance that none of them will be tier 3 by the start of Part 4 (especially Tormod/Micaiah/Laura) but that's still embarrassing.
Volug: Agreed on the stat booster. I don't consider it favoritism to give Volug the Energy Drop if you're using them. I don't understand the favoritism argument. You're obviously going to give things to people if you're using them. It's asinine to even bring up favoritism like this. Same way I don't consider it favoritism to give a speed wing to Skrimir if you're using him. My issue is how disgustingly close their endgame performance is here, and we're just ignoring it because...? Volug was good for a few chapters.
Speed is an extremely valuable stat and almost every unit is significantly improved by boosting it (except maybe a lucky few like Mia and Ulki who start fast enough to double and near certain to stay that way). Even units with above average speed, like Ike and Titania, benefit significantly. Any unit who takes a Speedwing, especially one joining as late as Part 4, is preventing 30+ other units from using it. That's a significant negative. If the comparison is "Skrimir with Speedwing vs. Volug", then the team with Volug is stronger because it can give that Speedwing to someone else.
Aside from that I don't see your complaint? If someone like Sothe or Volug is good early, they deserve credit for that, and should absolutely score above units who have similar performances to them at endgame. This doesn't even require giving them credit for "availability"; Volug's average usefulness in his chapters is significantly higher than Skrimir's because of his performance in Part 1 and Part 3.
Bolded yes she needs all that if you want to use her raise her as a combat unit. Italic maybe but what she prefers is the secret book so she can hit things. If she's being spoon fed kills that energy drop doesn't make much difference because she prefers a stronger forge. Also she has C-rank Lances she doesn't need discipline at all a maxed forge is good for her. I noticed that one difference between Fiona and Lyre is that Fiona eventually catches up faster, since Lyre's fastest way of gaining stats is through BEXP she's going through a much slower process than Fiona. Canto does make a big difference for Fiona, if she misses a hit or lands an unwanted kill she can move back to safety and have someone cover for her. No idea why you're counting 4 maps she's got 5 available maps [1-7,1-E,3-6,3-12,3-13] and Laguz give much better exp than beorc. Lyre's availability is similar she only has 1 map ahead of Fiona [3-4, 3-7, 3-8, 3-10, 3-11, 3-E].
That's the problem though. Base Fiona even with a Forge does like... 2 damage to none, gets doubled by almost all of the enemies on the map sans 1-2, and has terrible accuracy. The energy drop makes more of a difference than the secret book because she actually can't hurt anything and has a harder time killing things. C rank lances isn't a bad start until you look at people like say... Nolan, or Edward that have a B by the end. Heck, an Aran that you used might have over C, and he starts with a D rank. Fiona doesn't catch up faster. Fiona can't use paragon until she promotes. That's a problem. She'll need BEXP to even have competent stats at the start. No, she cannot move backwards because every map that she has is one where she has the same movement as everyone else. That means that unless she takes a hit from an enemy first, she can't do it unless she is only moving 4 movement to attack. Otherwise she can only Canto 1 space or no spaces. Considering that 1-7, 1-E and 3-13 are counted as "indoor" it's going to be difficult. 3-13 technically counts as outdoor if you advance, but that's a death wish. Just saying "canto" doesn't actually remove the problem. I usually write off 3-6 as an actual viable map for her because it's exceptionally difficult to use her-- I should have cleared that up. Oh, and in 1-E, she has to take the scenic route while everyone else can climb up the stairs. That's another thing tha's annoying. Fiona is a unit that they clearly did not playtest when they were making the game. Laguz may give better EXP than Beorc, but Fiona also gets massacred by them more than Lyre does when transformed-- a terrifying thought. And Lyre can at least somewhat fight-- it's trash, but when both of the units are this bad, Lyre's advantages actually kinda stick out. Barely, but they are certainly more usable. In this case, as Fiona is not a unit you're taking to the end due to circumstances against her. Lyre just stinks.
4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
Speed is an extremely valuable stat and almost every unit is significantly improved by boosting it (except maybe a lucky few like Mia and Ulki who start fast enough to double and near certain to stay that way). Even units with above average speed, like Ike and Titania, benefit significantly. Any unit who takes a Speedwing, especially one joining as late as Part 4, is preventing 30+ other units from using it. That's a significant negative. If the comparison is "Skrimir with Speedwing vs. Volug", then the team with Volug is stronger because it can give that Speedwing to someone else.
Aside from that I don't see your complaint? If someone like Sothe or Volug is good early, they deserve credit for that, and should absolutely score above units who have similar performances to them at endgame. This doesn't even require giving them credit for "availability"; Volug's average usefulness in his chapters is significantly higher than Skrimir's because of his performance in Part 1 and Part 3.
Significantly is a bit much. Any unit that's doubling doesn't get much use out of speed, and some like Brom, Laura, Rhys, and Micaiah it wouldn't make a lick of difference. The only ones that do care are people that are two-three speed higher than enemies. That's it. It's not nearly as many as people exaggerate. In that regard, an Energy Drop can be more valuable overall in this game. I'll admit I've never bothered to calculate how much a speedwing helps every character in the game, but quite a few of them it won't help. The ones that it does help? It is significant however. But the same could be said for Energy Drops. Energy Drops make a pretty significant difference for someone like Mia when they get forges as well. Having around +4 or 5 attack is pretty nice.
They are getting credit. That's why they are better than a good deal of the cast despite having rather dodgy endings even when these other units like say... Edward, Rolf, Nephenee, Fiona (yes, it's still true), etc... Are better by endgame. But being a tier of 8 is ridiculously high. Hence my "they are given way too much credit." The earlier chapters may be more difficult, but they aren't THAT hard.
I only tried to make clear that Sanaki's growths aren't as bad as Levant mentioned. Of course her base HP and defense are bad, but it's not correct to say that her strength and defense growth are low.
Also I trained Fiona just for fun... and I have to say her strength, skill and defense at level 19 are comparable to a level 10 Aran. She maxes out her resistance (what will become pointless in part 3) and her speed is also comparable to if he reaches this level. So she's nothing special except she's mounted and requires much more babying.
Meg, on the other hand, is pretty good. Excellent speed, defense and resistance. Only her strength is a bit low, but it's her only little issue.
I have to say, if you really can train her in 1-4 and give her at least three levels to bring her speed to ~10 at least (not to get doubled in the next chapter), she can have more potential than Aran in the long run due to her better speed.
If she had just one more base speed point and so enough not to get doubled by the tigers in 1-4, I'd give her a total different ranking. (~5) ... Probably even a better one than Aran.
Anyways some vote changes:
Tanith: from 7 to 6.5
Oliver: from 2 to 1.5
Astrid: from 3 to 2.5
Sothe: from 7 to 7.5 (weighted part 1 higher than I did previously)
That's the problem though. Base Fiona even with a Forge does like... 2 damage to none, gets doubled by almost all of the enemies on the map sans 1-2, and has terrible accuracy. The energy drop makes more of a difference than the secret book because she actually can't hurt anything and has a harder time killing things. C rank lances isn't a bad start until you look at people like say... Nolan, or Edward that have a B by the end. Heck, an Aran that you used might have over C, and he starts with a D rank. Fiona doesn't catch up faster. Fiona can't use paragon until she promotes. That's a problem. She'll need BEXP to even have competent stats at the start. No, she cannot move backwards because every map that she has is one where she has the same movement as everyone else. That means that unless she takes a hit from an enemy first, she can't do it unless she is only moving 4 movement to attack. Otherwise she can only Canto 1 space or no spaces. Considering that 1-7, 1-E and 3-13 are counted as "indoor" it's going to be difficult. 3-13 technically counts as outdoor if you advance, but that's a death wish. Just saying "canto" doesn't actually remove the problem. I usually write off 3-6 as an actual viable map for her because it's exceptionally difficult to use her-- I should have cleared that up. Oh, and in 1-E, she has to take the scenic route while everyone else can climb up the stairs. That's another thing tha's annoying. Fiona is a unit that they clearly did not playtest when they were making the game. Laguz may give better EXP than Beorc, but Fiona also gets massacred by them more than Lyre does when transformed-- a terrifying thought. And Lyre can at least somewhat fight-- it's trash, but when both of the units are this bad, Lyre's advantages actually kinda stick out. Barely, but they are certainly more usable. In this case, as Fiona is not a unit you're taking to the end due to circumstances against her. Lyre just stinks.
I ain't seeing what advantages Lyre has when she's a laguz, which comes with a bunch of severe disadvantages, including, but not limited to, cat gauge, range lock, and lower leveling speed (just to put it in perspective, her leveling speed is equivalent to the likes of Shinon and Titania to start, and by the time she gets to level 21, she's leveling Ike a third tier unit). And let's not forget her wonderful Mist-tier offense, because that's just embarrassing. Back to Fiona, I generally consider taking the ledge route in 1-E a bad idea because you're leaving yourself open to getting smacked by enemies who have the high ground. 3-6.. Well, I don't really see her movement as a problem since given the fragility of most of who you have, trying to push into the river is basically asking to have a death wish granted. Also, is Fiona's lance rank really a hindrance? Because outside of Tauroneo's Silver Lance, I don't think you really get many weapons that require a really high rank to use.
I didn't vote that way (7.5 Sothe vs. 9 Ike, although in hindsight, 8 and 8.5 respecively might be closer to what I think of them), but I can see why you woud. Sothe is certainly a more central character for the DB than Ike is for Greils Mercs, so a better score for him might be reasonable despite his rather mediocre performance in part 4. However, I still think that Ike performs better in his chapters than Sothe does in his (with the exception of his first 2 or 3 maps) - it's just that Ike doesn't stand out as much because most of the other Mercs are doing a lot better than your average DB member, as well.
It's a question of weighting, really. Do five units that join at the same time and that are about equal in strength and completely stomp their opponents deserve a higher rating than one single unit that doesn't really dominate the enemy, but still does better than all of the other player units on the map? I would answer that question with a very confident 'I dunno' slightly leaning towards 'no'. The reason why I still see Ike slightly ahead of Sothe is because he starts strong and doesn't really lose any steam at any point. The story-based promotion is slightly annoying, but it's early enough to make sure he keeps ahead of the game - the worst part (for me at least ;) ) is that he doesn't gain XP when he hits level 20.
I didn't vote that way (7.5 Sothe vs. 9 Ike, although in hindsight, 8 and 8.5 respecively might be closer to what I think of them), but I can see why you woud. Sothe is certainly a more central character for the DB than Ike is for Greils Mercs, so a better score for him might be reasonable despite his rather mediocre performance in part 4. However, I still think that Ike performs better in his chapters than Sothe does in his (with the exception of his first 2 or 3 maps) - it's just that Ike doesn't stand out as much because most of the other Mercs are doing a lot better than your average DB member, as well.
It's a question of weighting, really. Do five units that join at the same time and that are about equal in strength and completely stomp their opponents deserve a higher rating than one single unit that doesn't really dominate the enemy, but still does better than all of the other player units on the map? I would answer that question with a very confident 'I dunno' slightly leaning towards 'no'. The reason why I still see Ike slightly ahead of Sothe is because he starts strong and doesn't really lose any steam at any point. The story-based promotion is slightly annoying, but it's early enough to make sure he keeps ahead of the game - the worst part (for me at least ;) ) is that he doesn't gain XP when he hits level 20.
And to answer your question, I choose "yes." Because giving the more "outstanding unit among scrubs" is like ranking the best high school basketball player on a team of terrible players better than a professional NBA player despite the fact that the NBA Player is clearly more proficient in general just because everyone on their team is closer to his level of skill. That's my problem with it. If Sothe and Ike were never fielded in the same room, sure. But the fact that they are just doesn't sit well with me.
That's the problem though. Base Fiona even with a Forge does like... 2 damage to none, gets doubled by almost all of the enemies on the map sans 1-2, and has terrible accuracy. The energy drop makes more of a difference than the secret book because she actually can't hurt anything and has a harder time killing things. C rank lances isn't a bad start until you look at people like say... Nolan, or Edward that have a B by the end. Heck, an Aran that you used might have over C, and he starts with a D rank. Fiona doesn't catch up faster. Fiona can't use paragon until she promotes. That's a problem. She'll need BEXP to even have competent stats at the start. No, she cannot move backwards because every map that she has is one where she has the same movement as everyone else. That means that unless she takes a hit from an enemy first, she can't do it unless she is only moving 4 movement to attack. Otherwise she can only Canto 1 space or no spaces. Considering that 1-7, 1-E and 3-13 are counted as "indoor" it's going to be difficult. 3-13 technically counts as outdoor if you advance, but that's a death wish. Just saying "canto" doesn't actually remove the problem. I usually write off 3-6 as an actual viable map for her because it's exceptionally difficult to use her-- I should have cleared that up. Oh, and in 1-E, she has to take the scenic route while everyone else can climb up the stairs. That's another thing tha's annoying. Fiona is a unit that they clearly did not playtest when they were making the game. Laguz may give better EXP than Beorc, but Fiona also gets massacred by them more than Lyre does when transformed-- a terrifying thought. And Lyre can at least somewhat fight-- it's trash, but when both of the units are this bad, Lyre's advantages actually kinda stick out. Barely, but they are certainly more usable. In this case, as Fiona is not a unit you're taking to the end due to circumstances against her. Lyre just stinks.
Why would you write off that map? It's the easiest map for her to gain experience because she doesn't have to worry about a random enemy crawling nearby with a 2 range weapon. All she needs to do is hold a chokepoint and keep her health meter up, it's what every character is doing anyway. When I said canto is beneficial for her is because a lot of the part 3 maps for the db depend on chokepoints. So if she does 1 wrong move then she can move away for a substitute. I've used her many times and I always find that map easier to work with on Fiona.
Why would you write off that map? It's the easiest map for her to gain experience because she doesn't have to worry about a random enemy crawling nearby with a 2 range weapon. All she needs to do is hold a chokepoint and keep her health meter up, it's what every character is doing anyway. When I said canto is beneficial for her is because a lot of the part 3 maps for the db depend on chokepoints. So if she does 1 wrong move then she can move away for a substitute. I've used her many times and I always find that map easier to work with on Fiona.
Because normally Fiona doesn't have enough strength to throw javelins to do anything significant for damage. Without it, you can do things like have Earth affinity people hide in the grass for instance, and it's much safer than staying in the first island, and unlike the paths to the right, it doesn't have so many thickets that it benefits the enemy as well. I've used Fiona as well, and she's really a cut below the rest.
I'm not talking about Fiona throwing javelins i'm talking about 3-6 being safer for her to gain experience by holding chokepoints because the enemy only has 1 range and so she only has to worry about one enemy at a time. In the other maps like 1-7/1-E there's enemies with 2 range that might crawl by and kill her.
Because normally Fiona doesn't have enough strength to throw javelins to do anything significant for damage. Without it, you can do things like have Earth affinity people hide in the grass for instance, and it's much safer than staying in the first island, and unlike the paths to the right, it doesn't have so many thickets that it benefits the enemy as well. I've used Fiona as well, and she's really a cut below the rest.
I fail to see how it's safer to advance beyond the first island when you're exposing yourself to multiple attacks, and with laguz being accurate as they are, that's tantamount to suicide.
And to answer your question, I choose "yes." Because giving the more "outstanding unit among scrubs" is like ranking the best high school basketball player on a team of terrible players better than a professional NBA player despite the fact that the NBA Player is clearly more proficient in general just because everyone on their team is closer to his level of skill. That's my problem with it. If Sothe and Ike were never fielded in the same room, sure. But the fact that they are just doesn't sit well with me.
It's about how you judge them. The outstanding unit among scrubs is certainly more helpful to their team than someone who may be better than them but is on a team with others who are even better, and that's often how unit value is determined in these discussions. Sothe does more for his team - and for game completion as a result - than Ike for his own, so he gets a higher score.
In your basketball example, the high schooler's individual merits will probably lead his team further in their own league than the individual merits of a given NBA player, assuming the differences in skill are comparable to the Sothe/Ike situation.
Like, Caineghis beats almost everyone when he exists, yet he's below characters such as Oscar, Gatrie, and Zihark on the list. Do you think that's wrong? It's the same logic. It's the difference between judging what a character can do vs the enemies and judging how much they help the team. Tier lists for FE largely tend to be about the latter.
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Dark Holy Elf
On paper they're decent, but they don't even come close to making up for the bases. Sanaki's def is so bad that Tormod, Soren, Calill, and Ilyana can all literally gain 0 points of Def from levels and will still beat her by 1-6 points in Tier 3 with promotion bonuses alone. Laura and Micaiah will be equal.
In Sanaki's defence there's a chance that none of them will be tier 3 by the start of Part 4 (especially Tormod/Micaiah/Laura) but that's still embarrassing.
Speed is an extremely valuable stat and almost every unit is significantly improved by boosting it (except maybe a lucky few like Mia and Ulki who start fast enough to double and near certain to stay that way). Even units with above average speed, like Ike and Titania, benefit significantly. Any unit who takes a Speedwing, especially one joining as late as Part 4, is preventing 30+ other units from using it. That's a significant negative. If the comparison is "Skrimir with Speedwing vs. Volug", then the team with Volug is stronger because it can give that Speedwing to someone else.
Aside from that I don't see your complaint? If someone like Sothe or Volug is good early, they deserve credit for that, and should absolutely score above units who have similar performances to them at endgame. This doesn't even require giving them credit for "availability"; Volug's average usefulness in his chapters is significantly higher than Skrimir's because of his performance in Part 1 and Part 3.
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Augestein
That's the problem though. Base Fiona even with a Forge does like... 2 damage to none, gets doubled by almost all of the enemies on the map sans 1-2, and has terrible accuracy. The energy drop makes more of a difference than the secret book because she actually can't hurt anything and has a harder time killing things. C rank lances isn't a bad start until you look at people like say... Nolan, or Edward that have a B by the end. Heck, an Aran that you used might have over C, and he starts with a D rank. Fiona doesn't catch up faster. Fiona can't use paragon until she promotes. That's a problem. She'll need BEXP to even have competent stats at the start. No, she cannot move backwards because every map that she has is one where she has the same movement as everyone else. That means that unless she takes a hit from an enemy first, she can't do it unless she is only moving 4 movement to attack. Otherwise she can only Canto 1 space or no spaces. Considering that 1-7, 1-E and 3-13 are counted as "indoor" it's going to be difficult. 3-13 technically counts as outdoor if you advance, but that's a death wish. Just saying "canto" doesn't actually remove the problem. I usually write off 3-6 as an actual viable map for her because it's exceptionally difficult to use her-- I should have cleared that up. Oh, and in 1-E, she has to take the scenic route while everyone else can climb up the stairs. That's another thing tha's annoying. Fiona is a unit that they clearly did not playtest when they were making the game. Laguz may give better EXP than Beorc, but Fiona also gets massacred by them more than Lyre does when transformed-- a terrifying thought. And Lyre can at least somewhat fight-- it's trash, but when both of the units are this bad, Lyre's advantages actually kinda stick out. Barely, but they are certainly more usable. In this case, as Fiona is not a unit you're taking to the end due to circumstances against her. Lyre just stinks.
Significantly is a bit much. Any unit that's doubling doesn't get much use out of speed, and some like Brom, Laura, Rhys, and Micaiah it wouldn't make a lick of difference. The only ones that do care are people that are two-three speed higher than enemies. That's it. It's not nearly as many as people exaggerate. In that regard, an Energy Drop can be more valuable overall in this game. I'll admit I've never bothered to calculate how much a speedwing helps every character in the game, but quite a few of them it won't help. The ones that it does help? It is significant however. But the same could be said for Energy Drops. Energy Drops make a pretty significant difference for someone like Mia when they get forges as well. Having around +4 or 5 attack is pretty nice.
They are getting credit. That's why they are better than a good deal of the cast despite having rather dodgy endings even when these other units like say... Edward, Rolf, Nephenee, Fiona (yes, it's still true), etc... Are better by endgame. But being a tier of 8 is ridiculously high. Hence my "they are given way too much credit." The earlier chapters may be more difficult, but they aren't THAT hard.
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MisterIceTeaPeach
Also please don't overrate my comment.
I only tried to make clear that Sanaki's growths aren't as bad as Levant mentioned. Of course her base HP and defense are bad, but it's not correct to say that her strength and defense growth are low.
Also I trained Fiona just for fun... and I have to say her strength, skill and defense at level 19 are comparable to a level 10 Aran. She maxes out her resistance (what will become pointless in part 3) and her speed is also comparable to if he reaches this level. So she's nothing special except she's mounted and requires much more babying.
Meg, on the other hand, is pretty good. Excellent speed, defense and resistance. Only her strength is a bit low, but it's her only little issue.
I have to say, if you really can train her in 1-4 and give her at least three levels to bring her speed to ~10 at least (not to get doubled in the next chapter), she can have more potential than Aran in the long run due to her better speed.
If she had just one more base speed point and so enough not to get doubled by the tigers in 1-4, I'd give her a total different ranking. (~5) ... Probably even a better one than Aran.
Anyways some vote changes:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3VdhdU6OlxclplZ1M1RmNWS1k
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Shadow Mir
I ain't seeing what advantages Lyre has when she's a laguz, which comes with a bunch of severe disadvantages, including, but not limited to, cat gauge, range lock, and lower leveling speed (just to put it in perspective, her leveling speed is equivalent to the likes of Shinon and Titania to start, and by the time she gets to level 21, she's leveling Ike a third tier unit). And let's not forget her wonderful Mist-tier offense, because that's just embarrassing. Back to Fiona, I generally consider taking the ledge route in 1-E a bad idea because you're leaving yourself open to getting smacked by enemies who have the high ground. 3-6.. Well, I don't really see her movement as a problem since given the fragility of most of who you have, trying to push into the river is basically asking to have a death wish granted. Also, is Fiona's lance rank really a hindrance? Because outside of Tauroneo's Silver Lance, I don't think you really get many weapons that require a really high rank to use.
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ping
I didn't vote that way (7.5 Sothe vs. 9 Ike, although in hindsight, 8 and 8.5 respecively might be closer to what I think of them), but I can see why you woud. Sothe is certainly a more central character for the DB than Ike is for Greils Mercs, so a better score for him might be reasonable despite his rather mediocre performance in part 4. However, I still think that Ike performs better in his chapters than Sothe does in his (with the exception of his first 2 or 3 maps) - it's just that Ike doesn't stand out as much because most of the other Mercs are doing a lot better than your average DB member, as well.
It's a question of weighting, really. Do five units that join at the same time and that are about equal in strength and completely stomp their opponents deserve a higher rating than one single unit that doesn't really dominate the enemy, but still does better than all of the other player units on the map? I would answer that question with a very confident 'I dunno' slightly leaning towards 'no'. The reason why I still see Ike slightly ahead of Sothe is because he starts strong and doesn't really lose any steam at any point. The story-based promotion is slightly annoying, but it's early enough to make sure he keeps ahead of the game - the worst part (for me at least ;) ) is that he doesn't gain XP when he hits level 20.
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Augestein
And to answer your question, I choose "yes." Because giving the more "outstanding unit among scrubs" is like ranking the best high school basketball player on a team of terrible players better than a professional NBA player despite the fact that the NBA Player is clearly more proficient in general just because everyone on their team is closer to his level of skill. That's my problem with it. If Sothe and Ike were never fielded in the same room, sure. But the fact that they are just doesn't sit well with me.
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Sweet_Basil
Why would you write off that map? It's the easiest map for her to gain experience because she doesn't have to worry about a random enemy crawling nearby with a 2 range weapon. All she needs to do is hold a chokepoint and keep her health meter up, it's what every character is doing anyway. When I said canto is beneficial for her is because a lot of the part 3 maps for the db depend on chokepoints. So if she does 1 wrong move then she can move away for a substitute. I've used her many times and I always find that map easier to work with on Fiona.
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Augestein
Because normally Fiona doesn't have enough strength to throw javelins to do anything significant for damage. Without it, you can do things like have Earth affinity people hide in the grass for instance, and it's much safer than staying in the first island, and unlike the paths to the right, it doesn't have so many thickets that it benefits the enemy as well. I've used Fiona as well, and she's really a cut below the rest.
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Sweet_Basil
I'm not talking about Fiona throwing javelins i'm talking about 3-6 being safer for her to gain experience by holding chokepoints because the enemy only has 1 range and so she only has to worry about one enemy at a time. In the other maps like 1-7/1-E there's enemies with 2 range that might crawl by and kill her.
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Shadow Mir
I fail to see how it's safer to advance beyond the first island when you're exposing yourself to multiple attacks, and with laguz being accurate as they are, that's tantamount to suicide.
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Florete
It's about how you judge them. The outstanding unit among scrubs is certainly more helpful to their team than someone who may be better than them but is on a team with others who are even better, and that's often how unit value is determined in these discussions. Sothe does more for his team - and for game completion as a result - than Ike for his own, so he gets a higher score.
In your basketball example, the high schooler's individual merits will probably lead his team further in their own league than the individual merits of a given NBA player, assuming the differences in skill are comparable to the Sothe/Ike situation.
Like, Caineghis beats almost everyone when he exists, yet he's below characters such as Oscar, Gatrie, and Zihark on the list. Do you think that's wrong? It's the same logic. It's the difference between judging what a character can do vs the enemies and judging how much they help the team. Tier lists for FE largely tend to be about the latter.
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