I Find That Felica is Better Than Jakob

[SalShich10N]

Sakura has some amazing growths though, meaning being at level 1 will end up paying off if she's used. Plus, she's only available on the routes with the Festals available, so she shouldn't have to worry about being attacked.

I don't really get that low movement complaint. BR and Rev don't have the open maps early game like CQ does, so Sakura doesn't have to be going from place to place as much as Elise/Jakob/Felicia do in CQ. In conjunction with her Personal Skill, she does extremely well in the midlines supporting everyone, and no one really has high movement anyways, so she keeps up with everyone.

I guess I also never promote early, but I don't mind her sticking as a healer until around Ch 14-15, as she's bulk enough to take a hit, and her Rally at least gives her something to do when there's no healing. She pretty much turns into a wall of death once you promote her anyways.

Yeah but the problem with festals and sakura is that she's on BR stuck at E rank, so her Bloom Festal effectively heals about as much as a goddamn Vulnerary if not less. She's a liability not a help and carrying around Vulneraries is not as hard as keeping her around. I'll be honest, Revelations is out of my knowledge since I only played it once and I really don't feel the need to have the golden badge for that one. Then you have to deal with her promoting on either Priestess, which uses her near nonexistent strength stat or Onmyoji which takes the cake for being pretty much the worst magical class in the game. She doesn't really grows to be very impressive.

I call bullshit on the maps, Birthright Maps are much more open than Conquest, movement is most likely the reason why you didn't felt pressure for most units are not mounted, whereas most Conquest units can get 6-7 movement. Still I'd rather have a 6 movement healer than a 5 movement healer. Sure her skill is nice, but Demoiselle does the same thing to male allies, so does a defense tonic. A big difference is that at least Felicia can carry attacks with Attack Stance and debuff when she's not doing anything, with a reclass Felicia can also Rally Res, as opposed to mere Luck, and also get Inspiration 10 levels earlier than what Sakura needs to get Rally Mag or Renewall.

And I call bullshit on Sakura's bulk too, Hero Charlotte has better defenses than Sakura as a War Priestess. Sakura has only "better" physical defenses than Felicia and Elise, but by no means good.

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah but the problem with festals and sakura is that she's on BR stuck at E rank, so her Bloom Festal effectively heals about as much as a goddamn Vulnerary if not less. She's a liability not a help and carrying around Vulneraries is not as hard as keeping her around. I'll be honest, Revelations is out of my knowledge since I only played it once and I really don't feel the need to have the golden badge for that one. Then you have to deal with her promoting on either Priestess, which uses her near nonexistent strength stat or Onmyoji which takes the cake for being pretty much the worst magical class in the game. She doesn't really grows to be very impressive.

I call bullshit on the maps, Birthright Maps are much more open than Conquest, movement is most likely the reason why you didn't felt pressure for most units are not mounted, whereas most Conquest units can get 6-7 movement. Still I'd rather have a 6 movement healer than a 5 movement healer. Sure her skill is nice, but Demoiselle does the same thing to male allies, so does a defense tonic. A big difference is that at least Felicia can carry attacks with Attack Stance and debuff when she's not doing anything, with a reclass Felicia can also Rally Res, as opposed to mere Luck, and also get Inspiration 10 levels earlier than what Sakura needs to get Rally Mag or Renewall.

I dunno about you, but tbh, I find that Felicia alone ain't enough to keep the party healthy, for one, and second, with most Hoshidans having the durability of wet tissue paper, I'd rather have Sakura than not have her. Also, vulneraries are 100 gold for a meager 10 HP. That ain't enough for the price tag, if ya ask me. And WRT Demoiselle, I'm having trouble thinking of many male units not named Corrin I'd be fielding.

Rank E i staves, D in revelations but still has to deal with the fact that she's 5 move when Felicia/Jakob is 6-8 move in staves. She also starts at level 1 which means she takes way to long to promote if you want to promote her early. This means you need to sit down and grind her to get more mileage out of her and when she actually promotes she's not all that great. Essentially she's a drag when Felicia is ready and willing from the bloody prologue.

Even so, her personal skill is amazing, and works at range, meaning I don't have to worry about her being on the chopping block like with Elise, who has to be next to others for them to benefit from her personal skill. Edited December 31, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Emerson]

Yeah but the problem with festals and sakura is that she's on BR stuck at E rank, so her Bloom Festal effectively heals about as much as a goddamn Vulnerary if not less. She's a liability not a help and carrying around Vulneraries is not as hard as keeping her around. I'll be honest, Revelations is out of my knowledge since I only played it once and I really don't feel the need to have the golden badge for that one. Then you have to deal with her promoting on either Priestess, which uses her near nonexistent strength stat or Onmyoji which takes the cake for being pretty much the worst magical class in the game. She doesn't really grows to be very impressive.

I call bullshit on the maps, Birthright Maps are much more open than Conquest, movement is most likely the reason why you didn't felt pressure for most units are not mounted, whereas most Conquest units can get 6-7 movement. Still I'd rather have a 6 movement healer than a 5 movement healer. Sure her skill is nice, but Demoiselle does the same thing to male allies, so does a defense tonic. A big difference is that at least Felicia can carry attacks with Attack Stance and debuff when she's not doing anything, with a reclass Felicia can also Rally Res, as opposed to mere Luck, and also get Inspiration 10 levels earlier than what Sakura needs to get Rally Mag or Renewall.

And I call bullshit on Sakura's bulk too, Hero Charlotte has better defenses than Sakura as a War Priestess. Sakura has only "better" physical defenses than Felicia and Elise, but by no means good.

If you're actually healing most people with Sakura in the early game, by the time you need the higher healing, Sakura should have D rank.

I wouldn't say 30% Strength is nonexistent. Heck, her Defense is 30% too, so she actually has the same Strength and Defense. Shrine Maiden even gives +5% Str Growth. Either way, Sakura starts with base 5 Defense, and in every playthrough, she's gotten to 10 or more Defense around level 8-9 for me. Before promoting, I'm typically seeing an almost capped Defense Sakura.

Not that I think Priestess Sakura is a good option either way. E Rank Bows is pretty painful to try and use, and midrange strength doesn't help. May as well focus Magic.

Let's see, BR maps vs CQ maps:

Chapter 7 for both are pretty small, but CQ's has 3 chokepoints that aren't directly next to eachother, while BR has like 3 all in one hallway. CQ takes the cake for bigger map.

Chapter 8 BR is a desert, meaning Sakura technically has more movement than everyone else. Yes, there are DV that make paths, but Sakura has much more free range compared to everyone else not named Hinoka, Subaki or Orochi (Aside for reclassing). Because of this, units don't tend to split up and leave the path, so the map itself isn't really that large.

Chapter 8 CQ is a big open area with villages all over the place that you have to rush to in order to save. It definitely wins.

Chapter 9 BR takes it over Chapter 9 CQ, since CQ's is a bit more hallway-y with 1 large open area, while BR is a big mess of hallways and chokepoints that you're likely to need healers to be in mulitple locations at once.

Do I even need to compare Chapter 10 BR to Chapter 10 CQ? BR's is going from 1 end to the other, with an annoying chokepoint at the start, while CQ's is the map we all know with tons of stuff going on in multiple locations. Elise's horse has a lot of galloping around to do.

Chapter 11 BR is "Huddle together" the Chapter (even if you don't huddle, it's still not very open, as everyone is probably going to stay together), and Chapter 11 CQ is "Split up" (Or just send everyone one way) the Chapter. So.... yeah CQ gets it, but not by much. Just because of the option of splitting up.

Chapter 12 BR is just holding one chokepoint and pushing until you get 1 chest, then fly MU to the exit and leave.

Chapter 12 CQ is also just pushing forward, but actually fun the plan around. This one's kind of a tie.

Chapter 13 BR is pretty open actually, although there's a lot of turtling for the first part.

Chapter 13 CQ is breaking through 1 or 2 chokepoints while also fighting off Wyverns/Pegasi.

They're the same map, although I'd say BR's is a bit more open to start off, as you need to scramble to get the villages and fight off the Cavaliers, while CQ has a lot of turtling and staying together for fight off bosses and large groups.

Chapter 14 BR is just using Ryoma to kill a bunch of Paladins and Cavaliers, then using a few DVs. end of story.

Chapter 14 CQ is a big split up Chapter, or sticking everyone together. Either way, narrow hallways with 3 different options at the start is weirdly open thanks to fliers, although most healers (Basically anyone except Falcon Knights, which is just Laslow and Selena, both of which aren't meant for the healing role) would have issues getting around efficiently without taking up time, so it'd be best to have them just stick with where they need to be and not switch.

The fact that there are less mounted units in BR does very much factor in to this. You can't say that it's just not part of the reason her low movement doesn't matter.

Unlike Demoselle, Sakura's PS is everyone, and since it's 2 range, it works well with the Festal's 1-2 range, and you don't have to put her in danger unlike Elise's PS. She essentially has both Demoiselle and Gentilhomme built into her at all times. Rally Luck isn't great, but I also don't promote early, so having Rally Resistance in the god damn ninja hellhole (Which is around when Elise hits lv 20 for me) isn't exactly helpful.

Also, and this is a little unrelated, why do people keep calling Onmyoji bad? It's not as good as Sorcerer or Witch, but it's not terrible. It has a one up on both for being able to heal too. You could complain about lack of Nosferatu, but it's not even available in BR anyways outside of Battle Rewards. It also has Rally Magic, which is great for making Rinkah do actual damage, and Tomefaire, both of which are honestly pretty great. Sorcerer and Witch are definitely better offensively, but Onmyoji is still a great support class at the very least.

Charlotte definitely has less Defense, although Hero does bulk that up, plus her high HP can compensate. Sakura has 45% HP and 30% Defense at base, putting her in around the mid range of bulk.

[SalShich10N]

I dunno about you, but tbh, I find that Felicia alone ain't enough to keep the party healthy, for one, and second, with most Hoshidans having the durability of wet tissue paper, I'd rather have Sakura than not have her. Also, vulneraries are 100 gold for a meager 10 HP. That ain't enough for the price tag, if ya ask me. And WRT Demoiselle, I'm having trouble thinking of many male units not named Corrin I'd be fielding.

Even so, her personal skill is amazing, and works at range, meaning I don't have to worry about her being on the chopping block like with Elise, who has to be next to others for them to benefit from her personal skill.

Never underestimate the powers of Vulneraries. For 300g you can heal 3 different people 10 HP in a single turn and still have Felicia and/or Sakura. Early on when the HP gap isn't that large you can get a lot of mileage out of a couple of them. 100g is by no means expensive, you even start with 5000g at chapter 7 and the game just throws 10000 gold at your direction every other chapter.

As for Demoiselle in Birthright you have: Silas, Kaze, Ryoma, Takumi and Azama. In Conquest you have: Silas, Kaze, Arthur, Niles, Benny and Xander. I'll give you that Subaki, Odin, Laslow, Hayato and Hinata are kinda garbage, though. Still due to the pure existence of S ranks alone you'll want to be fielding some men even if you want to run a harem team.

Adjacent is fine, it's not like every single enemy in the game has a range 1-2 weapon and Elise really doesn't bat an eye to magical damage and she has the movement to get around and stand next to people. I feel you guys sometimes forget that you can just press the X button to check whether it's safe or not.

[Shadow Mir]

Never underestimate the powers of Vulneraries. For 300g you can heal 3 different people 10 HP in a single turn and still have Felicia and/or Sakura. Early on when the HP gap isn't that large you can get a lot of mileage out of a couple of them. 100g is by no means expensive, you even start with 5000g at chapter 7 and the game just throws 10000 gold at your direction every other chapter.

As for Demoiselle in Birthright you have: Silas, Kaze, Ryoma, Takumi and Azama. In Conquest you have: Silas, Kaze, Arthur, Niles, Benny and Xander. I'll give you that Subaki, Odin, Laslow, Hayato and Hinata are kinda garbage, though. Still due to the pure existence of S ranks alone you'll want to be fielding some men even if you want to run a harem team.

Adjacent is fine, it's not like every single enemy in the game has a range 1-2 weapon and Elise really doesn't bat an eye to magical damage and she has the movement to get around and stand next to people. I feel you guys sometimes forget that you can just press the X button to check whether it's safe or not.

The problem is, vulneraries aren't cost efficient (100 gold for 10 HP, whilst it may not be expensive, still reeks of a rip-off to me), and they're dependent on, you know, the unit not having already used up their turn. So I don't feel I'm underestimating vulneraries - if anything, I think you're overglorifying them. Also, I'd add Arthur to that list of garbage men you have there. Which leaves a bunch of men who have one issue or another [i feel that Niles is suspect, ditto for Kaze, Azama is a healer, Ryoma and Xander come relatively late, and I'd be heavily disinclined to use the former because he comes during a point in the game where the majority of enemies are still unpromoted, and thus would steal exp from my units, Silas tends to have speed problems].

Edited December 31, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SalShich10N]

If you're actually healing most people with Sakura in the early game, by the time you need the higher healing, Sakura should have D rank.

I wouldn't say 30% Strength is nonexistent. Heck, her Defense is 30% too, so she actually has the same Strength and Defense. Shrine Maiden even gives +5% Str Growth. Either way, Sakura starts with base 5 Defense, and in every playthrough, she's gotten to 10 or more Defense around level 8-9 for me. Before promoting, I'm typically seeing an almost capped Defense Sakura.

Not that I think Priestess Sakura is a good option either way. E Rank Bows is pretty painful to try and use, and midrange strength doesn't help. May as well focus Magic.

Let's see, BR maps vs CQ maps:

Chapter 7 for both are pretty small, but CQ's has 3 chokepoints that aren't directly next to eachother, while BR has like 3 all in one hallway. CQ takes the cake for bigger map.

Chapter 8 BR is a desert, meaning Sakura technically has more movement than everyone else. Yes, there are DV that make paths, but Sakura has much more free range compared to everyone else not named Hinoka, Subaki or Orochi (Aside for reclassing). Because of this, units don't tend to split up and leave the path, so the map itself isn't really that large.

Chapter 8 CQ is a big open area with villages all over the place that you have to rush to in order to save. It definitely wins.

Chapter 9 BR takes it over Chapter 9 CQ, since CQ's is a bit more hallway-y with 1 large open area, while BR is a big mess of hallways and chokepoints that you're likely to need healers to be in mulitple locations at once.

Do I even need to compare Chapter 10 BR to Chapter 10 CQ? BR's is going from 1 end to the other, with an annoying chokepoint at the start, while CQ's is the map we all know with tons of stuff going on in multiple locations. Elise's horse has a lot of galloping around to do.

Chapter 11 BR is "Huddle together" the Chapter (even if you don't huddle, it's still not very open, as everyone is probably going to stay together), and Chapter 11 CQ is "Split up" (Or just send everyone one way) the Chapter. So.... yeah CQ gets it, but not by much. Just because of the option of splitting up.

Chapter 12 BR is just holding one chokepoint and pushing until you get 1 chest, then fly MU to the exit and leave.

Chapter 12 CQ is also just pushing forward, but actually fun the plan around. This one's kind of a tie.

Chapter 13 BR is pretty open actually, although there's a lot of turtling for the first part.

Chapter 13 CQ is breaking through 1 or 2 chokepoints while also fighting off Wyverns/Pegasi.

They're the same map, although I'd say BR's is a bit more open to start off, as you need to scramble to get the villages and fight off the Cavaliers, while CQ has a lot of turtling and staying together for fight off bosses and large groups.

Chapter 14 BR is just using Ryoma to kill a bunch of Paladins and Cavaliers, then using a few DVs. end of story.

Chapter 14 CQ is a big split up Chapter, or sticking everyone together. Either way, narrow hallways with 3 different options at the start is weirdly open thanks to fliers, although most healers (Basically anyone except Falcon Knights, which is just Laslow and Selena, both of which aren't meant for the healing role) would have issues getting around efficiently without taking up time, so it'd be best to have them just stick with where they need to be and not switch.

The fact that there are less mounted units in BR does very much factor in to this. You can't say that it's just not part of the reason her low movement doesn't matter.

Unlike Demoselle, Sakura's PS is everyone, and since it's 2 range, it works well with the Festal's 1-2 range, and you don't have to put her in danger unlike Elise's PS. She essentially has both Demoiselle and Gentilhomme built into her at all times. Rally Luck isn't great, but I also don't promote early, so having Rally Resistance in the god damn ninja hellhole (Which is around when Elise hits lv 20 for me) isn't exactly helpful.

Also, and this is a little unrelated, why do people keep calling Onmyoji bad? It's not as good as Sorcerer or Witch, but it's not terrible. It has a one up on both for being able to heal too. You could complain about lack of Nosferatu, but it's not even available in BR anyways outside of Battle Rewards. It also has Rally Magic, which is great for making Rinkah do actual damage, and Tomefaire, both of which are honestly pretty great. Sorcerer and Witch are definitely better offensively, but Onmyoji is still a great support class at the very least.

Charlotte definitely has less Defense, although Hero does bulk that up, plus her high HP can compensate. Sakura has 45% HP and 30% Defense at base, putting her in around the mid range of bulk.

How many people you're healing depends a bit on how you play and how the AI decides to work. Usually the AI will target a single person unless you clog it up somehow, so that narrows how much healing you need. In my experience with Birthright I have been able to go through with a single healer, but I always wind up needing two in Conquest.

Growths are not the only thing that matters, Base matters a lot. 30% strength growth isn't much to write home about either, it's as much as Orochi has speed as a Diviner, and she ain't going fast. Your issue with defense is very personal. Getting from level 1 to level 9 and earning 4 points in defense reflects a 50% growth. She in fact has 30%, and for most people she'd promote at level 20 with about 10-11 defense. Congratulations, you were lucky.

As for the chapters, Chapter 10 conquest is a defense map. It's not about moving all that much around the map, as much as it is about holding choke points. Advance is slow and only as it's necessary and healing is safely provided as the center square of the map is pretty much danger-free. Chapter 11 conquest is separated in many small rooms, with only one room having remarkable length and you can control with ease the flow of your units and the aggro of the enemies. Units by no means have trouble reaching places in Chapter 11. Chapter 12 birthright you can just deploy a flier and Corrin and run away, it only really gets interesting if you attempt to kill Xander. Either ways the vein in that map exist to MAKE the chapter open. It's funny how different chapter 13 can be just depending on starting position and how the boss aggro, they're both even Rout maps. Chapter 14 in Birthright is where things take the nosedive down because Ryoma and Scarlet are so ridiculous. Also the maps steadily become unimpressive. Hell chapter 14 in the beggining is really just an open map with nearly nothing for cover and once inside the building the DV trivializes the whole thing.

Chapter 17 ain't the only map in the game. 16, 18, 20 all have magical enemies and even if you're spamming Xander he welcomes the boost in Resistance. Of course Quiet Strength has the same range as festals, just like Lilly's Poise has the same range as staves. Besides everyone welcomes rally defense, rally magic is only welcome in birthright by: Orochi (who still can't double), Hayato (also a level 1 wonder), Felicia on the Flame Shuriken (if you don't go Femui), Dragonstone Corrin (because no Levin Sword on BR) and Rhajat (who you have to breed out first). Magic really got shafted in Fates.

Onmyoji has low base stats. You notice this a lot if you compare its stats to Basara coming from Diviner, where it loses all stats except two points in magic, which is a spirit dust. Compare it to Strategist and it only has 1 more def and has 3 less luck, 1 less res and 2 less movements. Change is even wilder if you reclass Hayato from Onmyoji to Oni Chieftain as he gains 9 strength, 7 defense, 3 HP, doesn't loses any Speed and only loses 1 point in resistance and 2 points in magic. It also has pretty crappy skills until Tomefaire, which you'll probably get by chapter 27, if not during that chapter. As a pure staff user you actually get more mileage out of Sakura if you make her a Falcon Knight, actually. It has more HP, Spd, Def, Res, 8 move and flies, gets Rally Speed all at the cost of only 3 points of magic.

You focus too much on growths. Bases are a lot more important than you think. Charlotte starts at level 10 with 8 defense and 28 HP (33 counting HP+5). By level 10 Sakura will have gained 3 points of defense (30% for 10 levels) so it'll be about the same defense and 4-5 in HP (45% for 10) so it'll be at around 20 HP. This means Charlotte has and will have the same defense as Sakura (30% vs 25% and similar base), but A LOT, and I mean A LOT more HP to sink it in. Even if Sakura and Charlotte swapped growths, Sakura would never catch up to the 13 point deficit. Remember, Charlotte is still considered to be pretty weak defensively, so I'd Sakura is rather low in bulk all things considered.

[Emerson]

Hm, good points. I did selectively talk about bases, huh. I still think Jakob is more useful than Felicia and Sakura is a great unit, but I do understand the arguements against them. I mean, I also use Rinkah in almost every run of BR and Rev and find her to be an amazing unit when used well, so I guess I'll just my dumb unpopular opinions and leave.

Also, for the record, I rarely use Rallies in general. If they happen to be helpful, sure. But I'd much rather Heal than waste the turn slightly boosting a stat. Just a playstyle thing- I know they can be very useful. I just dislike planning around them when that unit could be doing something I see as more helpful.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Emerson

[SalShich10N]

The problem is, vulneraries aren't cost efficient (100 gold for 10 HP, whilst it may not be expensive, still reeks of a rip-off to me), and they're dependent on, you know, the unit not having already used up their turn. So I don't feel I'm underestimating vulneraries - if anything, I think you're overglorifying them. Also, I'd add Arthur to that list of garbage men you have there. Which leaves a bunch of men who have one issue or another [i feel that Niles is suspect, ditto for Kaze, Azama is a healer, Ryoma and Xander come relatively late, and I'd be heavily disinclined to use the former because he comes during a point in the game where the majority of enemies are still unpromoted, and thus would steal exp from my units, Silas tends to have speed problems].

They're very valuable when you use them properly, specially if you're using every unit. They shine a lot in the early game where 10 HP means a lot. You use them, precisely when a unit is not doing anything this turn, the healer cannot reach or has a greater job, or the unit is defending. For instance, in Chapter 7 of Nohr a vulnerary allows Effie, Arthur or Silas to choke a point, Corrin and Felicia/Jakob to heal up Grisly Wound damage, relieves Elise of her duty in case you need to use the Freeze staff on the dual guard team with Speed Seal. I always actively try to have at all moments at least 3-7 Vulneraries/Concoctions circulating in the army at all times just in case.

Gee, not every unit is perfect like Corrin, Camilla or Xander. They all have strengths and weaknesses that can be harnessed if used properly. Except Odin, he just sucks that badly. Niles and Kaze both have terrific speed which amps up their damage output on top of their magic resistance. Arthur can be a terrific tank, a great pair-up but and a very reliable crit disher. Azama is better off reclassed and is a monster in any physical class including his own natural Apothecary, Ryoma arrives pretty damn early if you ask me, Chapter 14 is only one third into the route. Silas has more than enough defense to amend for his speed, his speed can be compensated with a pairup and/or with tonics and his defense is invaluable as he's the most defensive unit in Birthright along with Scarlet.

Not every every unit can be Oscar, Raven, Seth, Rutger, Haar or Shanan. Often nailing just two out of three in terms of offense, defense and speed is more than enough.

Hm, good points. I did selectively talk about bases, huh. I still think Jakob is more useful than Felicia and Sakura is a great unit, but I do understand the arguments against them. I mean, I also use Rinkah in almost every run of BR and Rev and find her to be an amazing unit when used well, so I guess I'll just my dumb unpopular opinions and leave.

Also, for the record, I rarely use Rallies in general. If they happen to be helpful, sure. But I'd much rather Heal than waste the turn slightly boosting a stat. Just a playstyle thing- I know they can be very useful. I just dislike planning around them when that unit could be doing something I see as more helpful.

Ehh, each people play their own way. I'm not telling you how to play as much as I am just explaining my reasoning. I use Charlotte in Conquest myself every time I can even if she's considered pretty terrible. I play in a rather safe and aggressive manner. Draw fire in one turn with someone defensive, then wipe everything the next, so I am not used to ending my turns with enemies alive. I also use a lot of attack stance and spread experience evenly on my party.

Rallies have their niche, specially when you have few units as berserkers (rally str), wyvern lords (defense), strategists (resistance) or falcons (rally speed). Camilla rallying defense in lunatic can be a godsend in some maps.

[Shadow Mir]

They're very valuable when you use them properly, specially if you're using every unit. They shine a lot in the early game where 10 HP means a lot. You use them, precisely when a unit is not doing anything this turn, the healer cannot reach or has a greater job, or the unit is defending. For instance, in Chapter 7 of Nohr a vulnerary allows Effie, Arthur or Silas to choke a point, Corrin and Felicia/Jakob to heal up Grisly Wound damage, relieves Elise of her duty in case you need to use the Freeze staff on the dual guard team with Speed Seal. I always actively try to have at all moments at least 3-7 Vulneraries/Concoctions circulating in the army at all times just in case.

Gee, not every unit is perfect like Corrin, Camilla or Xander. They all have strengths and weaknesses that can be harnessed if used properly. Except Odin, he just sucks that badly. Niles and Kaze both have terrific speed which amps up their damage output on top of their magic resistance. Arthur can be a terrific tank, a great pair-up but and a very reliable crit disher. Azama is better off reclassed and is a monster in any physical class including his own natural Apothecary, Ryoma arrives pretty damn early if you ask me, Chapter 14 is only one third into the route. Silas has more than enough defense to amend for his speed, his speed can be compensated with a pairup and/or with tonics and his defense is invaluable as he's the most defensive unit in Birthright along with Scarlet.

Not every every unit can be Oscar, Raven, Seth, Rutger, Haar or Shanan. Often nailing just two out of three in terms of offense, defense and speed is more than enough.

Hey, I keep vulneraries on my units largely as a last resort in case my healer has used their turn, it's too dangerous to bring them in, or they're too far away to assist. Anyway....

Arthur's a dangerous investment that can EASILY blow up in my face, and no amount of crits can even come close to making up for that. Trying to use him is also like trying to use Thunder, etc. when your hit rate got lowered. You did get the pair up bot part right, but unfortunately for you, you missed the target entirely with everything else (and that's disregarding the part where "pair up bot" is a really fancy word for "benchwarmer" by my standards).

Azama needs a precious Heart Seal, which there are only so many of for a majority of the game, to say nothing of the part where I could get more mileage out of using them on someone else.

Ryoma comes late, relatively speaking - discounting the children, the only units who come after him are Izana and Yukimura. There's also the matter where I don't want or need him stealing exp from my units.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[guedesbrawl]

Vulnearies can indeed be more powerful than healing weapons, but they require offensive units to stop attacking (which is rarely ideal) and some specific walling setups to get multiple uses in one turn.

Nevermind the cost-benefit when compared to staves. With an unit that somehow has 0 magic, heal nets you 20 charges of 10 HP healed for 500g. Vulneraries are more than half of that value, but only work three times. Of course, units with higghr magic give much more than 10 HP per healing... and that's not bringing up the safety of using Festals into play.

Vulneraries are definitely useful and should be brought in case your healer cannot actually approach the enemy (somethign that can be mitiated by sing+shelter but that's also nto always an option)

While you can totally go no healer or solo healer while using items to make up for it, i'd rather have Servant 1+Little sister as well as Niles (CQ) or Corrin/Hayato (BR) to have more healing. (Azura dropping for Kinshi in either game's Chapter 24 can help too via Amaterasu+Healing Descant, but that's two heart seals and a forged bow you need so...)

...I also think people give open maps too much flak. Try playing Br without purposefully breaking the game (like, no Ryoma/scarlet, no lowmanning, no jakob1). you're goign to have a BAD time trying to deal with so many ponies before they can go around your party and pick off your squishies. (the second half has unforgivable design, tho).

How much you ned your healings spread around and moving really depends on the map. BR doesn't have a single map where you'd need to be going back and forth between groups of people to keep the healing going. CQ? Chapter 8 and 10 are the only ones you might have trouble, dependi on whether you have pony!Jakob 1 or not (good for C8 as elise doesn't have to be busy going into a house and freezeing the lancer; bad for c10 because you hae four groups of units but just one healer [though those not on the central chokepoint can and wil rely on vulneraries])

]

[DragonFlames]

They're very valuable when you use them properly, specially if you're using every unit. They shine a lot in the early game where 10 HP means a lot. You use them, precisely when a unit is not doing anything this turn, the healer cannot reach or has a greater job, or the unit is defending. For instance, in Chapter 7 of Nohr a vulnerary allows Effie, Arthur or Silas to choke a point, Corrin and Felicia/Jakob to heal up Grisly Wound damage, relieves Elise of her duty in case you need to use the Freeze staff on the dual guard team with Speed Seal. I always actively try to have at all moments at least 3-7 Vulneraries/Concoctions circulating in the army at all times just in case.

Gee, not every unit is perfect like Corrin, Camilla or Xander. They all have strengths and weaknesses that can be harnessed if used properly. Except Odin, he just sucks that badly. Niles and Kaze both have terrific speed which amps up their damage output on top of their magic resistance. Arthur can be a terrific tank, a great pair-up but and a very reliable crit disher. Azama is better off reclassed and is a monster in any physical class including his own natural Apothecary, Ryoma arrives pretty damn early if you ask me, Chapter 14 is only one third into the route. Silas has more than enough defense to amend for his speed, his speed can be compensated with a pairup and/or with tonics and his defense is invaluable as he's the most defensive unit in Birthright along with Scarlet.

Not every every unit can be Oscar, Raven, Seth, Rutger, Haar or Shanan. Often nailing just two out of three in terms of offense, defense and speed is more than enough.

I beg to differ with you on this point. In my Birthright (Hard mode) run, Silas died because he got doubled by an enemy Hero in a single round in Chapter 24, I think it was, at least the one with Hans as the boss. I reset, of course, but he was better off dead, anyway, since he couldn't tank shit in the chapters that came afterwards and even before that I found his supposed durability to be... well, not there. He was a Paladin, by the way, because that at least somewhat allieviates his Speed and Resistance issues, but it wasn't enough, I found. And it's not much better if he's reclassed to Great Knight, either. In fact, it only gets worse in that class. I found Oboro and Rinkah to be MUCH better suited for tanking purposes, since both actually get Speed and Defence regularly.

Same story in Conquest. If Silas gets hit by anything faster than him, he's dead, especially if that 'anything' is Hana on Chapter 22 with her freaking Rend Heaven and even without it, the dude doesn't stand much of a chance of survining one round of combat against enemy Swordmasters or pretty much anything that outspeeds him, which on Conquest is a LOT of enemies (Snipers, Master Ninjas, Weapon Masters, Kinshi Knights and so on and so forth...).

If I want a tank in Conquest, I'd much rather go for Hero!Selena, Keaton, Effie, Benny, Beruka, Velouria or Ignatius on the physical and Felicia, Elise, Ophelia, Niles, Nina, Peri and (debatably) Nyx on the magical side, since with three of them, you can at least get Wary Fighter and the others are fast enough to not get doubled and killed.

On the topic of Tonics: They cost money, which frankly on Conquest, you can't really afford to spend to make one not-as-good unit halfway decent when there are others (see list above) who can do the job better. You'd much rather spend that money on better weaponry to equip your stronger, better, don't-need-the-setup-anyway-units stronger. That is exactly why I don't think Xander is all that he's cut out to be, either.

And lastly, there's the issue of Kitsune hell, where Silas and any other beast unit not named Kinshi-Knight!Mozu with a Hunter's Bow, Keaton or Velouria is practically dead just from being there.

I mean, I like Silas as a character, but as a unit, he gets WAY too much credit is all I'm saying.

And I sadly have to admit that by this argument, I shouldn't be using Nyx, either, since you have to do a LOT of babying to make her good. Which is also why I always say that you should just use who YOU personally like/prefer, no matter what others say.

And now I don't even know why I ranted at you in the first place. Maybe it's just repressed trauma from having Silas die easily to that freaking Hero.

I definitely agree with your last statement, all things considered.

Edited December 31, 2016 by DragonFlames

[guedesbrawl]

I beg to differ with you on this point. In my Birthright (Hard mode) run, Silas died because he got doubled by an enemy Hero in a single round in Chapter 24, I think it was, at least the one with Hans as the boss. I reset, of course, but he was better off dead, anyway, since he couldn't tank shit in the chapters that came afterwards and even before that I found his supposed durability to be... well, not there. He was a Paladin, by the way, because that at least somewhat allieviates his Speed and Resistance issues, but it wasn't enough, I found. And it's not much better if he's reclassed to Great Knight, either. In fact, it only gets worse in that class. I found Oboro and Rinkah to be MUCH better suited for tanking purposes, since both actually get Speed and Defence regularly.

Same story in Conquest. If Silas gets hit by anything faster than him, he's dead, especially if that 'anything' is Hana on Chapter 22 with her freaking Rend Heaven and even without it, the dude doesn't stand much of a chance of survining one round of combat against enemy Swordmasters or pretty much anything that outspeeds him, which on Conquest is a LOT of enemies (Snipers, Master Ninjas, Weapon Masters, Kinshi Knights and so on and so forth...).

If I want a tank in Conquest, I'd much rather go for Hero!Selena, Keaton, Effie, Benny, Beruka, Velouria or Ignatius on the physical and Felicia, Elise, Ophelia, Niles, Nina, Peri and (debatably) Nyx on the magical side, since with three of them, you can at least get Wary Fighter and the others are fast enough to not get doubled and killed.

On the topic of Tonics: They cost money, which frankly on Conquest, you can't really afford to spend to make one not-as-good unit halfway decent when there are others (see list above) who can do the job better. You'd much rather spend that money on better weaponry to equip your stronger, better, don't-need-the-setup-anyway-units stronger. That is exactly why I don't think Xander is all that he's cut out to be, either.

And lastly, there's the issue of Kitsune hell, where Silas and any other beast unit not named Kinshi-Knight!Mozu with a Hunter's Bow, Keaton or Velouria is practically dead just from being there.

I mean, I like Silas as a character, but as a unit, he gets WAY too much credit is all I'm saying.

And I sadly have to admit that by this argument, I shouldn't be using Nyx, either, since you have to do a LOT of babying to make her good. Which is also why I always say that you should just use who YOU personally like/prefer, no matter what others say.

And now I don't even know why I ranted at you in the first place. Maybe it's just repressed trauma from having Silas die easily to that freaking Hero.

I definitely agree with your last statement, all things considered.

Your fatal mistake was going Paladin.

In BR, there is no point. You ought to invest on tankiness because guard Naginata is a thing, while SPD is very easy to fix in Br as competition for speedwings is scarce, while Rally Speed and SPD pair-ups are pretty easy to access.

My silas could be tossed at Heroes in the same chapter in Lunatic, take no damage, and ORKO them with a Guard naginata with just a MoA!Mozu pair-up. I realize that PEMN, but that was a run with mess hall/tonics banned.

He is pretty mediocre before promotion, tho, as that early GN is pretty contested between him, Oboro and SF!Hinoka.

Edited December 31, 2016 by guedesbrawl

[tbtbkzld]

I think Jakob‘s best asset is reclassing to Archer/Sniper.

Edited January 1, 2017 by tbtbkzld

[tbtbkzld]

To the people that quoted me: I think the game would be much more balanced if reclassing wasn't available. Pally Jakob breaks the game until Camilla comes around who also breaks the game but does it even HARDER if reclassed, and then Xander comes along breaking more of the game especially if he gets Hero and Charlotte.

DLC is another thing. If the player is willing to pay up, he deserves the easier game. Grinding is also another story but the game gives you ninjas, scarlet and Ryoma so BR would need a whole overhaul to be difficult, and by REV it was pretty clear they weren't caring. I'd ban it too.

But reclassing needs to go. I know it won't happen and that it is here to stay, but i really wish reclassing died with fates. Or at the ver least that you could only reclass between the character's two natural promotions and nothing more.

Felicia would have been great, but she is a magic unit in CQ. You'd either need to be a kid character, Corrin, or someone with a very easy to fix flaw (Leo) to be a good magic unit in that game. In BR and REV she can still be as useful as JAkob if reclassed to strategist, depending on how much you rely on staves and support.

Flame Shuriken doesn't nerf her avoid hard enough to stop her from reliably dodgetanking magic up until Anathema+Enfeeble+Freeze combos on C26.

Also, in all maps but 17 and 19 (which counter magic anyways) it is absurdly easy to cover for Felicia. I'd say 21 as well, but part of the game there can involve freeze/entrap on Stoneborns.

Felicia, as a maid, can be used offensively literally in the same manner as you'd use Elise. The big difference is that she does need slight help to ORKO beefier low res targets like Onis and MoAs, in compensation for providing debuffs in attack stance. Or you can go strategist and have her magic and weapons become stronger there, too. With Elise available this is a little questionable in CQ, but she destroys things really hard in BR and REV.

Reclassing is an important part of Fates, some character like Hinata, Subaki, Azama,can only reveal their true potential by reclassing.

[SalShich10N]

I beg to differ with you on this point. In my Birthright (Hard mode) run, Silas died because he got doubled by an enemy Hero in a single round in Chapter 24, I think it was, at least the one with Hans as the boss. I reset, of course, but he was better off dead, anyway, since he couldn't tank shit in the chapters that came afterwards and even before that I found his supposed durability to be... well, not there. He was a Paladin, by the way, because that at least somewhat allieviates his Speed and Resistance issues, but it wasn't enough, I found. And it's not much better if he's reclassed to Great Knight, either. In fact, it only gets worse in that class. I found Oboro and Rinkah to be MUCH better suited for tanking purposes, since both actually get Speed and Defence regularly.

Same story in Conquest. If Silas gets hit by anything faster than him, he's dead, especially if that 'anything' is Hana on Chapter 22 with her freaking Rend Heaven and even without it, the dude doesn't stand much of a chance of survining one round of combat against enemy Swordmasters or pretty much anything that outspeeds him, which on Conquest is a LOT of enemies (Snipers, Master Ninjas, Weapon Masters, Kinshi Knights and so on and so forth...).

If I want a tank in Conquest, I'd much rather go for Hero!Selena, Keaton, Effie, Benny, Beruka, Velouria or Ignatius on the physical and Felicia, Elise, Ophelia, Niles, Nina, Peri and (debatably) Nyx on the magical side, since with three of them, you can at least get Wary Fighter and the others are fast enough to not get doubled and killed.

On the topic of Tonics: They cost money, which frankly on Conquest, you can't really afford to spend to make one not-as-good unit halfway decent when there are others (see list above) who can do the job better. You'd much rather spend that money on better weaponry to equip your stronger, better, don't-need-the-setup-anyway-units stronger. That is exactly why I don't think Xander is all that he's cut out to be, either.

And lastly, there's the issue of Kitsune hell, where Silas and any other beast unit not named Kinshi-Knight!Mozu with a Hunter's Bow, Keaton or Velouria is practically dead just from being there.

I mean, I like Silas as a character, but as a unit, he gets WAY too much credit is all I'm saying.

And I sadly have to admit that by this argument, I shouldn't be using Nyx, either, since you have to do a LOT of babying to make her good. Which is also why I always say that you should just use who YOU personally like/prefer, no matter what others say.

And now I don't even know why I ranted at you in the first place. Maybe it's just repressed trauma from having Silas die easily to that freaking Hero.

I definitely agree with your last statement, all things considered.

I think as it has been said already, a big problem was that you went Paladin to amend for his speed, rather than going Great Knight to enrich his defenses. Picture it this way, by going Paladin you favor 1 point of speed and 5% growth and 1 in movement while sacrificing 2 points in HP, 2 points of Strength, 3 points in defense, 10% growth of HP and 10% growth of Defense and axes (Great Knights are amazing targets for Arms Scrolls). If you want to fix his speed: pair him with Kaze, they both support all the way to A and make up for each other's weaknesses and even increase each other movement, get a chef's hat put it on Peri/Jakob and have everyone eat Spd/Def meals, buy tonics, and Silas is probably your better target for Speedwings if you're not running Orochi. Great Knight Silas on the Guard Naginata is literally the highest defense unit you have.

Like, honestly, viewing the stats alone, why would you ever pick Paladin over Great Knight?

How curious you mentioned Hana in Conquest, in my run of Conquest Silas did in fact killed Hana. The strategy was: Pull her over with a Rally Defense'd Effie on the chokepoint equipped with a forged Iron Lance, Have Ophelia transfer Effie's pairup to her and kill a Blacksmith (I think) while standing next to Hana for heartseeker, Equip Effie with the Effie Lance (without attacking) have Silas stand behind Effie and attack with a Spear carrying Effie's attack on Attack Stance. It might or might not have involved Arthur's Rally Strength, as I don't recall. Attack Stance is your fried, it allows you to kill stuff without having to concern yourself for speed, specially the frailer stuff like Samurai and Ninjas.

What do you mean you cannot afford money in Conquest? You are literally swimming in cash, look at this:

-Chapter 7: 5,000

-Chapter 8: 10,000

-Chapter 10: 10,000

-Chapter 12: 5,000

-Chapter 13: 5,000

-Chapter 14: 10,000

-Chapter 16: at least 6,000

And that's only until you get Xander, you are swimming in dough.

The Kitsune hell is a matter of how you handle it, and how you shield your units. Even if you don't reclass Arthur, Camilla and Corrin are great people to face the enemies. I normally fancy myself Hero Sophie for this map, though.

And the last thing you miss is matchups. Not every unit is suited for every single enemy, you have a team and each should make up for each other weaknesses.

Hey, I keep vulneraries on my units largely as a last resort in case my healer has used their turn, it's too dangerous to bring them in, or they're too far away to assist. Anyway....

Arthur's a dangerous investment that can EASILY blow up in my face, and no amount of crits can even come close to making up for that. Trying to use him is also like trying to use Thunder, etc. when your hit rate got lowered. You did get the pair up bot part right, but unfortunately for you, you missed the target entirely with everything else (and that's disregarding the part where "pair up bot" is a really fancy word for "benchwarmer" by my standards).

Azama needs a precious Heart Seal, which there are only so many of for a majority of the game, to say nothing of the part where I could get more mileage out of using them on someone else.

Ryoma comes late, relatively speaking - discounting the children, the only units who come after him are Izana and Yukimura. There's also the matter where I don't want or need him stealing exp from my units.

I must admit I am very curious now at what happened for you to be traumatized this badly over random critical hits. A "dangerous investment", holy crap.

Hitrate is patched up nicely by both his very high skill growth and attack stance. Attack Stance increases hit rate by a lot. You won't call an S ranked Berserker as a "bench warmer" once you see that delicious 7 in Str when paired up. 7 boi, 7 strength. 9 with tonics and 11 with mess hall. Not only that he also gets Rally Strength which means he can spread the love to several units even if he's not attacking. On this subject, it's not a bad idea either to promote Keaton as soon as you get him and use him as a pair-up bot too since he gives 4 in speed and 4 in strength. With an S rank he also gives 7 in Strength. Units have so much more than one use, and that's what make them worthwhile in the long run even if they have glaring weaknesses. But, like ultrasound imaging, they're operator dependent.

If you're not beyond using Route bonuses, if you own conquest (why the hell you wouldn't?) Azama can be an amazing Dread Fighter and that's for free. Once Ryoma comes, and you don't mind breaking the game, you really don't need anyone else. Giving the Rajinto 10 avoid was a mistake.

[Shadow Mir]

I must admit I am very curious now at what happened for you to be traumatized this badly over random critical hits. A "dangerous investment", holy crap.

Hitrate is patched up nicely by both his very high skill growth and attack stance. Attack Stance increases hit rate by a lot. You won't call an S ranked Berserker as a "bench warmer" once you see that delicious 7 in Str when paired up. 7 boi, 7 strength. 9 with tonics and 11 with mess hall. Not only that he also gets Rally Strength which means he can spread the love to several units even if he's not attacking. On this subject, it's not a bad idea either to promote Keaton as soon as you get him and use him as a pair-up bot too since he gives 4 in speed and 4 in strength. With an S rank he also gives 7 in Strength. Units have so much more than one use, and that's what make them worthwhile in the long run even if they have glaring weaknesses. But, like ultrasound imaging, they're operator dependent.

If you're not beyond using Route bonuses, if you own conquest (why the hell you wouldn't?) Azama can be an amazing Dread Fighter and that's for free. Once Ryoma comes, and you don't mind breaking the game, you really don't need anyone else. Giving the Rajinto 10 avoid was a mistake.

How would YOU feel after losing an hour's worth of playtime to a stray critical hit? I know this much - you wouldn't be a very happy camper.

Berserkers are black as pitch, so of course I would brand then benchwarmers. Also, it's hard to feed Arthur kills when I can't rely on him to hit, and worse yet, I'm gambling whenever he sees combat thanks to his shitstain of a personal skill.

Because Ryoma can be everywhere at once and evade is a reliable defense, right? BZZT! Wrong! Regarding Azama, sure, he can be good as a Dread Fighter, but guess what? So can many other units.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Alastor15243]

Luck isn't even what ruins Arthur for me no matter how badly I've tried to use him. There are workarounds if you really want to make him usable, including having him be an attack stance fighter who works with somebody who provides critical evade (like Mozu, who as a bonus is an archer and thus will wind up next to him easily in a lot of assaults), or reclassing him into a bow user (again, preferably Mozu), or just not letting him fight anyone who can take a third or more of his health away in one hit.

No, Arthur's real problem is his crappy speed base and mediocre growth meaning that he's generally just not going to be able to double unless you jump through hoops by getting a rally bot, giving him speedwings (in a game where Xander exists) or waste a pairup partner on somebody who's never going to be active on the enemy phase.

[SalShich10N]

How would YOU feel after losing an hour's worth of playtime to a stray critical hit? I know this much - you wouldn't be a very happy camper.

Berserkers are black as pitch, so of course I would brand then benchwarmers. Also, it's hard to feed Arthur kills when I can't rely on him to hit, and worse yet, I'm gambling whenever he sees combat thanks to his shitstain of a personal skill.

Because Ryoma can be everywhere at once and evade is a reliable defense, right? BZZT! Wrong! Regarding Azama, sure, he can be good as a Dread Fighter, but guess what? So can many other units.

"Ehh, shit happens". It's not like I don't like playing the game, plus I already have the experience of the previous run so I know what's going on. If I'm really that much in a rush, I just turn off battle animations and skip enemy turns. I get more pissed off at missing 80-98% hit rates than getting crit. At least if someone dies that's the end of it and you reset, but missing still leaves you with the possibility of success, meaning you can't give up.

That's racist, black is still a very good color. Berserkers are great, my Lunatic Birthright I used the captured Berserker with the Bolt Axe that comes in chapter 14, named for me Andreas, he was pretty great. Arthur's personal skill doesn't nothing to him, really, he has no luck to begin with. Attack stance and weapon triangle are your friends when dealing with hit rate learn to pick your fights. Arthur is a terrific matchup for Ninjas. I have absolutely no problem getting him to level even in Lunatic, so that's mostly a personal problem on you. He doesn't have any luck to begin with.

Why does Ryoma needs to be in many places at once? In rout maps the enemies come to you, you usually don't go to them, and in boss maps it's just a simple stroll to the boss. Evade is pretty darn reliable when he has so many things that boost it (class 10% + Rajinto 10% + Duelist blow 20%). Defense is patched up with a pairup on Corrin or Rinkah, or just by mere Guard Stance itself. On guard stance every 3rd battle is free of damage. Ryoma gains levels quickly enough once promoted enemies start popping out. It's a boring thing to do, yes, but it's definitely a thing. The worst part is that it's better to not deploy anyone weaker than him on Lunatic because they are the ones who die and it's best to remove liabilities.

Edited December 31, 2016 by SalShich10N

[Shadow Mir]

"Ehh, shit happens". It's not like I don't like playing the game, plus I already have the experience of the previous run so I know what's going on. If I'm really that much in a rush, I just turn off battle animations and skip enemy turns. I get more pissed off at missing 80-98% hit rates than getting crit. At least if someone dies that's the end of it and you reset, but missing still leaves you with the possibility of success, meaning you can't give up.

That's racist, black is still a very good color. Berserkers are great, my Lunatic Birthright I used the captured Berserker with the Bolt Axe that comes in chapter 14, named for me Andreas, he was pretty great. Arthur's personal skill doesn't nothing to him, really, he has no luck to begin with. Attack stance and weapon triangle are your friends when dealing with hit rate learn to pick your fights. Arthur is a terrific matchup for Ninjas. I have absolutely no problem getting him to level even in Lunatic, so that's mostly a personal problem on you. He doesn't have any luck to begin with.

Why does Ryoma needs to be in many places at once? In rout maps the enemies come to you, you usually don't go to them, and in boss maps it's just a simple stroll to the boss. Evade is pretty darn reliable when he has so many things that boost it (class 10% + Rajinto 10% + Duelist blow 20%). Defense is patched up with a pairup on Corrin or Rinkah, or just by mere Guard Stance itself. On guard stance every 3rd battle is free of damage. Ryoma gains levels quickly enough once promoted enemies start popping out. It's a boring thing to do, yes, but it's definitely a thing. The worst part is that it's better to not deploy anyone weaker than him on Lunatic because they are the ones who die and it's best to remove liabilities.

Misses are generally annoying, yes, but they're not much more than an annoyance more often than not, as opposed to an enemy critical hit, which likely means you just lost.

You missed the reference. Anyways, Berserkers are much better on the enemy side than on the player side, as far as I'm concerned.

I find it very funny that you talk about "it's best to remove liabilities", yet you turn around and sing the praises of Arthur, who's a really big liability. Anyways, I fail to see evade as reliable when dodgetanking is all but destroyed in Fates. Also, Duelist's Blow only works on offense, AKA once a turn.

[The Geek]

Arthur is screwed overall because of a mix of many flaws. Low Luck, the natural low hit on Axes, and the prevalence of Swords and generally high-avoid enemies in Conquest make it that he has trouble hitting anything.

And that's not even mentioning his personal skill which causes him to draw an unnatural and obscene number of critical hits.

The best thing I did in my second Conquest run to make it easier was bench him as soon as I could.

[tbtbkzld]

Arthur is screwed overall because of a mix of many flaws. Low Luck, the natural low hit on Axes, and the prevalence of Swords and generally high-avoid enemies in Conquest make it that he has trouble hitting anything.

And that's not even mentioning his personal skill which causes him to draw an unnatural and obscene number of critical hits.

The best thing I did in my second Conquest run to make it easier was bench him as soon as I could.

If Arthur marry Setsuna or Mozu, his flaws will be solved by Certain Blow skill. Archer/Sniper is more capable for Arthur. Also he can learn Renewal from Azama.

[SalShich10N]

I find it very funny that you talk about "it's best to remove liabilities", yet you turn around and sing the praises of Arthur, who's a really big liability. Anyways, I fail to see evade as reliable when dodgetanking is all but destroyed in Fates. Also, Duelist's Blow only works on offense, AKA once a turn.

Conquest Lunatic and Birthright Lunatic are very different games. Conquest Lunatic keeps the same stats as in Hard Mode, only changing the gimmicks of the map, ammount of enemies and enemy skills. Brithright Lunatic beefes up enemy stats marginally while still keeping enemies at a lower level than in conquest. This means that in Birthright your units will be at lower levels while also perform worse against enemies. It's far harder to work around weaknesses in Birthright, specially when you get units like Ryoma that so damn ridiculous.

In Conquest even the famed Xander has his own weaknesses to magic as well as lacking speed, while Camilla is prey to bows. Yet experience is more abound, thus leveling and strengthening units is easier even in Hard mode because enemies are at simply at higher levels. Just picture this, Birthright chapter 22 still has unpromoted enemies, while Conquest chapter 18 is all promoted enemies. Units in birthright other than the few you dump everything into, namely Corrin and Ryoma, do not get higher than level 20/15 by chapter 27.

Why do you speak as if Ryoma himself was frail? He has terrific HP value for Fates, good defense and on top of that he has good avoidance and on top of that Guard Stance blocks.

[Shadow Mir]

If Arthur marry Setsuna or Mozu, his flaws will be solved by Certain Blow skill. Archer/Sniper is more capable for Arthur. Also he can learn Renewal from Azama.

Two of those are Revelations only, and those two also come late. Which just leaves Mozu, who I'd likely have other plans for.

[guedesbrawl]

Reclassing is an important part of Fates, some character like Hinata, Subaki, Azama,can only reveal their true potential by reclassing.

I still feel like it ruins the game and is just a convenient excuse for developers to give us crappy characters like all three mentioned above.

I'd much rather have an entire cast of competent units and the skill scroll system (added to personal skills and some character having class skills they shouldn't start with sometimes) than the reclass system.

I'm aware i'm the minority, though. For the most part i'm fine with reclassing as i can just ignore its existence (and by that i mean, "when i'm not playing CQ21 on Lunatic", as no reclassing on top of the crapload of restrictions i play with makes the chapter impossible without breaking my rules, such as using a non-servant prepromote)

Maybe on the day the devs start to care enough to maintain the character's unique color scheme throughout every single class they could reclass to, as well as possibly changing their protraits (if not using the battle model itself), then i might start being okay with the feature.

Right now it just sucks and i'd rather burn it away from my cartridge, lol.

Arthur is screwed overall because of a mix of many flaws. Low Luck, the natural low hit on Axes, and the prevalence of Swords and generally high-avoid enemies in Conquest make it that he has trouble hitting anything.

And that's not even mentioning his personal skill which causes him to draw an unnatural and obscene number of critical hits.

The best thing I did in my second Conquest run to make it easier was bench him as soon as I could.

Arthur can still make do in terms of accuracy by going hero (and sticking with Iron Sword+, and reserving axes for WTA.

What, IMO, actually screws over is a mix of mediocre SPD and mediocre bulk. it means a lot of thigns hit Arthur extremely hard, and he simply doesn't have the versatility to make up for it. Beruka has the same problem, except she trades more bulk for arrow vulnerability, and extra utility (flight/rally def/lunge/pair-up stats) for low STR.

Both, IMO, are much better off as clean-up units.

Edited January 1, 2017 by guedesbrawl

[Dark Sage]

Reclassing is an important part of Fates, some character like Hinata, Subaki, Azama,can only reveal their true potential by reclassing.

See this is funny because

Tsubaki and Hinata get so much worse when you reclass them out of their base classes.