I Find That Felica is Better Than Jakob

[Shadow Mir]

Hero only slighlty increases osme of Xander's stats, yes. But it gives him HP+5 for extra tankiness and Sol for even more survivability (remember that Xander has good skill which is made even better by Hero). Add that to Charlotte's stat bonueses and a possible Strong Ripóste if you A+ Laslow and Xander rocks the game even harder than before.

Felicia is still dodgetanking reliably because WTA+Tomebreaker+high spd+really high luck means she will have one heck of an avoid stat against mages. Attack stance helps as well, especially since her damage output generally needs a little boost if you are not fighting unpromoted enemies.

Because Sol is SO RELIABLE, right? Oh, wait, no it ain't. Too bad! Sol really ain't so good I'd consider it a must have.

And just how many chapters are brimming with mages? I can't think of any.

[guedesbrawl]

Because Sol is SO RELIABLE, right? Oh, wait, no it ain't. Too bad! Sol really ain't so good I'd consider it a must have.

And just how many chapters are brimming with mages? I can't think of any.

With the amount of combat Xander can take, and the amount of damage he takes vs the damage he dishes out, sol is very easily worth having

Just what do you want to say with that last part? The person i quoted was complaining about avoid. avoid only matters for Felicia if she is fighting mages.

There are more mages in the game to dodgetank with Felicia than shuriken-users to dodgetank with whatever Bow Knight you chose for Sh.breaker.

Edited December 25, 2016 by guedesbrawl

[eclipse]

With the amount of combat Xander can take, and the amount of damage he takes vs the damage he dishes out, sol is very easily worth having

Just what do you want to say with that last part? The person i quoted was complaining about avoid. avoid only matters for Felicia if she is fighting mages.

There are more mages in the game to dodgetank with Felicia than shuriken-users to dodgetank with whatever Bow Knight you chose for Sh.breaker.

Felicia doesn't do well against physical damage. That's most of the enemy units. I don't really give a crap about Felicia/Jakob's durability against mages (because Tomebreaker solves that), since they're horribly outnumbered by physical units.

[Shadow Mir]

With the amount of combat Xander can take, and the amount of damage he takes vs the damage he dishes out, sol is very easily worth having

Just what do you want to say with that last part? The person i quoted was complaining about avoid. avoid only matters for Felicia if she is fighting mages.

There are more mages in the game to dodgetank with Felicia than shuriken-users to dodgetank with whatever Bow Knight you chose for Sh.breaker.

Maybe to you, but by my standards, Sol ain't nearly reliable enough to rely on to stay alive, and only being healed by half the damage dealt is just underwhelming no matter which way you slice it.

[Augestein]

Maybe to you, but by my standards, Sol ain't nearly reliable enough to rely on to stay alive, and only being healed by half the damage dealt is just underwhelming no matter which way you slice it.

It's still something that's useful. That said, I see no reason to really go into Hero for Xander on the account that he has this nice class that gives him full weapon triangle control, and I don't fear hammers and beast slaying weapons enough to give up all of the advantages of it, and Luna.

[Radiant head]

sol is actually great because while it's dumb to rely on it for staying alive, it cuts down how much work your healer(s) have to do.

i have never tried xander as a hero, but i've done that for silas, and it's decent but doesn't help his speed nearly enough to worth losing the mount. almost did lodestar, but that class just looks weird on people who are not marth.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Radiant head

[Shadow Mir]

sol is actually great because while it's dumb to rely on it for staying alive, it cuts down how much work your healer(s) have to do.

Correction: it cuts down on the work your healers have to do if you get lucky.

[guedesbrawl]

Felicia doesn't do well against physical damage. That's most of the enemy units. I don't really give a crap about Felicia/Jakob's durability against mages (because Tomebreaker solves that), since they're horribly outnumbered by physical units.

So if you are not talking about mages then you literally are talking about nothing.

Avoid is irrelevant to Felicia outside of. You do not leave Felicia exposed in Enemy Phase, and you do not leave things alive when/if she attacks because attack stance is a thing. IF there are 1-2 physical enemies, unless they are weak enough to not one shot her, you don't fight them with Felicia.

I totally get saying she is worse than Jakob and etc, but use the right arguments if you wanna criticize a character. -20 avoid means nothing for Felicia outside of Chapter 26, but she will be so physically weak by then that its not like other daggers would be worth having to cut down that 40~% to almost half. (I mean... depends. If the mage is already wounded and there's someone like Effie to attack stance with... well. You probably would be filling the other 4 slots with staves anyways)

In CQ, -20 avoid only hurts, what... Samurai!Odin with WTA and random Corrin/2nd gens builds. The rest of the units don't really have enough avoid to be counted on, with or without that drop in avoid.

[Radiant head]

Correction: it cuts down on the work your healers have to do if you get lucky.

if they proc it once after multiple rounds of combat, still less work for the healer.

[Shadow Mir]

if they proc it once after multiple rounds of combat, still less work for the healer.

If the target was healthy, that is, else it might as well not have triggered at all. And of course that's assuming you aren't greeted by "MISS!!". Edited December 26, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[The Geek]

I did Hero!Xander in my first Conquest run and it's pretty great. He activates Sol often enough to become even sturdier, plus making Xander a foot unit is hilarious as you can then fully appreciate how lolhuge Siegfried is.

[Radiant head]

laslow is the only way he can get it I assume?

[eclipse]

So if you are not talking about mages then you literally are talking about nothing.

Avoid is irrelevant to Felicia outside of. You do not leave Felicia exposed in Enemy Phase, and you do not leave things alive when/if she attacks because attack stance is a thing. IF there are 1-2 physical enemies, unless they are weak enough to not one shot her, you don't fight them with Felicia.

I totally get saying she is worse than Jakob and etc, but use the right arguments if you wanna criticize a character. -20 avoid means nothing for Felicia outside of Chapter 26, but she will be so physically weak by then that its not like other daggers would be worth having to cut down that 40~% to almost half. (I mean... depends. If the mage is already wounded and there's someone like Effie to attack stance with... well. You probably would be filling the other 4 slots with staves anyways)

In CQ, -20 avoid only hurts, what... Samurai!Odin with WTA and random Corrin/2nd gens builds. The rest of the units don't really have enough avoid to be counted on, with or without that drop in avoid.

"Right arguments?"

Not everyone turtles, and the Flame Shuriken hype is quite overrated if Felicia is in range of anything that doesn't hit Resistance. In other words, she'll be just peachy on Chapter 19, while having to deal with other maps that have 1-2 range weapons (that's just about everything else) or those rock-throwing monsters in Chapters 21/26 (which she can't counter anyway). Jakob can take early hits, which is great on Chapter 8 (WTD), Chapter 9 (WTD on archers who hit hard),

laslow is the only way he can get it I assume?

Marry Selena.

[Radiant head]

oh right.

yeah i guess if you're already pairing him with either of those (or charlotte) might as well dip into hero, but otherwise doesn't seem too worth it. especially since no one is using the one lodestar scroll as well as xander.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Radiant head

[The Geek]

laslow is the only way he can get it I assume?

Xander can get Hero from A+ Support with Laslow or from marrying Selena, Charlotte, or F!Corrin with Mercenary talent.

[Espinosa]

The only way to make Felicia about as good at combat as Xander is to give her a bulky tome reclass as early as possible - Dark Knight, Malig Knight or Oni Chieftain. Because Flora joins really late, the only way to do it is marrying Corrin with the appropriate skillset.

So Felicia is never as good as Jakob, and if you argue that Felicia shouldn't be taking any hits to function well, then that just proves Jakob is better - Jakob can take on hordes of enemies early on.

[The Geek]

If you can get her Sorcerer, Felicia can actually be really good since it gives her a boost to her Defense and allows her to access Nosferatu. I married her to Leo in my current Conquest run and she can actually handle herself pretty well with her Nosferatu tome.

[guedesbrawl]

"Right arguments?"

Not everyone turtles, and the Flame Shuriken hype is quite overrated if Felicia is in range of anything that doesn't hit Resistance. In other words, she'll be just peachy on Chapter 19, while having to deal with other maps that have 1-2 range weapons (that's just about everything else) or those rock-throwing monsters in Chapters 21/26 (which she can't counter anyway). Jakob can take early hits, which is great on Chapter 8 (WTD), Chapter 9 (WTD on archers who hit hard),

Marry Selena.

It doesn't matter if you turtle or not. Avoid is inconsequential for Felicia even if using her (or playing the game in general) non optimally because if you don't have breaker, dual weapons or sunrise/hagakure, dodgetanking isn't reliable. If you are unwilling to turtle that's on you. I'm not willing to reclass, for example. It doesn't change that doing it gives incredible boosts to certain characters AND that it is viable.

If you are ever leaving Felicia in range of non magic enemies in EP, then it's on you for sucking (...or not understanding the wind in 20/24, which is forgivable). Or are you going to argue that protecting Azura is hard? because its literally the same thing. both are backline squishies, and Azura is considered one of the best units in the game. Obviously, if people couldn't protect her, she wouldn't be given that position because using her would be impossible.

Again, i'm not arguing anything about vs Jakob. Drop that if you are quoting me. Jakob is superior to Felicia overall, even if i think they belong in the same tier given that Felicia is not that much different from Elise when reclassed and staves/auras are powerful.

Felicia is a magic user, of course she is going to be hard countered in kitsune hell. That map, 17 and 21 are literally built to destroy squishies unless you turtle hard (which isn't even possible in the last one) or are very efficient at pressing an offensive (which is possible in the other two as long as you sacrifice a flier to disrupt the penultimate fox squad in 19). She still has her auras, though, and staffbotting. Freeze is incredibly powerful in all of those maps, as is Entrap. The ability to completely remove a stoneborn from play or take out a promoted Naruto can be game changing.

(and before you bring it up, Older brothers, corrin and Azura are the only ones who are immune to "but X can do that job too!" so don't bother)

50% of the time outside of Naruto hells that 1-2 range is magical. Loads of onmyoji and bolt naginata people in 20/22/24, Tomes on Onis and Basaras during 22/23/24. Entire waves of almost 20 mages in C6. It just so happen that one Naruto hell has no 2 range at all. Master Ninjas are huge threats, but most in both maps are not strong or fast enough to OHKO Felicia on average as long as she is any Guard Stance and is hit only once. (not that you should as she is offensively crap against them.. But she can be useful bait i suppose. Better for Felicia to eat IE than Xander or Effie).

Half of chapter 8 is mages. Felicia and Niles deal with mages and tank them, actually.Your other units deal with Fighters. except odin who is just kinda there That doesn't change no matter how hard you are turtling or rushing.

Chapter 9 is inconsequential. Even if you are on the offensive the map is built in a way that enemies come to you. Half of the map is going to be at 1 HP because of Azura. Felicia is also very useful as an attack stance partner for niles who is your best bet against Haitaka, as this also can debuff him even if her damage is bad (and protects niles a bit better. And heals him to full HP next turn so he can do his job on EP).

The archers? Shelter and Sing lets you one round them with Niles or Bowzu rather easily and safely from behind the walls. Felicia does not fear the Shining Bow archer, btw. You don't even need to turtle to do it. though that's always an option and in this map, exactly the best. Even if looking at it from an efficiency POV, dealing with the archers before they have a really wide range on your team is more efficient due to a lack of effort. At best, you expend two turns dealing with the archers no matter how you play, its just a matter of doing so earlier or not.

It is also worth noting that Tomebreaker is a nice skill but giving felicia an actual offensive presence pre C12 can also be nice. She gets a lot out of tomes and the low RES enemies that litter that time period. Fecaless in 7, Fighters in 8 in addition to the mages she hard counters, Samurais in 8 not as much, but onis in 10 and spearfighters in both of these maps are also vulnerable. The entire right side of c11 is very vulnerable to Felicia.

...And since this is usually considered for Jakob, its worth noting that Felicia can also make heavy use of reclassing to get a lot of strong skills quite early, or at an oportune time. Chapter 25 is preceded by three chapters full of fliers which means Felicia's low STr can be circumvented if you want to aim for Shurikenbreaker. Her most optimal non-Corrin pairing offer her Dark mage which boost her offense even further, or give her outlaw to make that process of getting Shurikenbreaker even more bountiful. Corrin can give her Malig access which is always nice.

Edited December 26, 2016 by guedesbrawl

[Shadow Mir]

The only way to make Felicia about as good at combat as Xander is to give her a bulky tome reclass as early as possible - Dark Knight, Malig Knight or Oni Chieftain. Because Flora joins really late, the only way to do it is marrying Corrin with the appropriate skillset.

Erm, what's with the mention of Xander?

[eclipse]

(snip)

Azura's purpose is to sing. She will be nowhere near the front lines, since whoever she sang should be ahead of her. If Felicia is doing any sort of damage output, she needs to be a lot closer to the action. If she's being used as an aurabot/staffbot, she might as well be swapped out for Elise, who can do something with Dragon Veins.

You are in no position to tell anyone that they suck, since it's clear that you have no understanding of my play style. Don't do it again.

[guedesbrawl]

Azura's purpose is to sing. She will be nowhere near the front lines, since whoever she sang should be ahead of her. If Felicia is doing any sort of damage output, she needs to be a lot closer to the action. If she's being used as an aurabot/staffbot, she might as well be swapped out for Elise, who can do something with Dragon Veins.

You are in no position to tell anyone that they suck, since it's clear that you have no understanding of my play style. Don't do it again.

She will not be on the frontlines in the EP. On PP she will move to what WAS the frontlines, as they will then become the backline of the next turn. it's not hard.

[Augestein]

She will not be on the frontlines in the EP. On PP she will move to what WAS the frontlines, as they will then become the backline of the next turn. it's not hard.

So she's doing less than Jakob.

[Refa]

I mean, he did say that Felicia is worse than Jakob.

[Augestein]

I mean, he did say that Felicia is worse than Jakob.

Which makes me wonder what we are trying to point out here.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

I used Nyx!Dwyer in Conquest once and he was better by himself than Jacob and Felicia in a S-rank pair up