Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[silverserpent]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well besides Niime, we did get one in lore, sorta.

From the Leonster's Fall text, this describes Leif's paternal grandmother Queen Alfiona:

"The queen was dressed for battle; it was said that, in her youth, she fought side-by-side with the King, just like Ethlin. Actually, many of the old generals gathered there had seen the queen like that countless times. Grasping the queen’s extraordinary determination from that, the gathered generals bended to her will."

Why did she do this?

"The queen, who was about to sink into dark thoughts (when she learned her husband had died in battle), was brought back to reality by the servant’s voice. If she didn’t pull herself together, she would end up unable to protect even the prince (Leif) Cuan had left. Even if she had to become a shield, she would protect that heir. Cheered up by those thoughts, the queen stood up."

 

Yeah, this queen we don't even get a picture of sounds fairly awesome. Willing to sacrifice herself and prematurely join her husband, son, and his wife, just to secure the future of Leonster in her grandson.

I think that's the definition of a badass grandma. Now...if only she was playable, she would fit into the Tsunade-role.

[Poimagic]

I know I might be dumb by suggesting thins, but if Arvis is a GHB and is an armored mage, wouldn't an owl tome be viable on him? After all, armor emblem loves to turtle and owl tomes' effect works well when your turtiling. How does that sound?

[DarkLordIvy]

23 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Fantastic Build, maybe I should take some pointers for my Titania.  It's always fun to see Pass, and Triangle Adept with the Emerald Axe, just as back-up, in case your three year old unequips your weapon or something.  I'm a bit disappointed that she's running Hone Cavalry, when she could have had Axe Exp 3 or something.

I know right? It’s making me rethink my build too. Why run a breaker when she could slip behind the enemy lines? And why stop at Axe Exp when my (-hp) Titania could run Panic Ploy!

Edited October 1, 2017 by DarkLordIvy

[property of nuvelle]

What do you guys mean we need more playable grandmas.

We have several female Awakening characters in the game already.

Edited October 1, 2017 by KongDude

[silverserpent]

9 minutes ago, KongDude said:

What do you guys mean we need more playable grandmas.

We have several female Awakening characters in the game already.

...you make a sound argument since Lissa and Olivia do have canonical grandchildren in the form of Ovelia and Soleil.

[property of nuvelle]

57 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

...you make a sound argument since Lissa and Olivia do have canonical grandchildren in the form of Ovelia and Soleil.

Those two have the chance of being a great grandma.

[Interdimensional Observer]

28 minutes ago, KongDude said:

What do you guys mean we need more playable grandmas.

We have several female Awakening characters in the game already.

We don't want them in their youth, we want them silver haired of aging, wrinkled in the skin, and post-menopause. Osteoporosis is optional.

And Owain isn't even Lissa's kid really, she dropped him off in an Annarealm the day he was born. How else could he make references to the entire series if not having been raised reading from the Anna Family Archives?

As for Cordelia, her youthful obsession with Chrom has to die before I could call her a grandma, so never. And I need to see Olivia teach little girls how to dance.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Rezzy]

55 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

I think that's the definition of a badass grandma. Now...if only she was playable, she would fit into the Tsunade-role.

 

38 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said:

I know right? It’s making me rethink my build too. Why run a breaker when she could slip behind the enemy lines? And why stop at Axe Exp when my (-hp) Titania could run Panic Ploy!

 

34 minutes ago, KongDude said:

What do you guys mean we need more playable grandmas.

We have several female Awakening characters in the game already.

 

24 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

...you make a sound argument since Lissa and Olivia do have canonical grandchildren in the form of Ovelia and Soleil.

 

23 minutes ago, KongDude said:

Those two have the chance of being a great grandma.

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

We don't want them in their youth, we want them silver haired of aging, wrinkled in the skin, and post-menopause. Osteoporosis is optional.

And Owain isn't even Lissa's kid really, she dropped him off in an Annarealm the day he was born. How else could he make references to the entire series if not having been raised reading from the Anna Family Archives?

As for Cordelia, her youthful obsession with Chrom has to die before I could call her a grandma, so never. And I need to see Olivia teach little girls how to dance.

I'm not a Grandmother, but I'm a Great Aunt irl.  Is that close enough?

45 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

I know I might be dumb by suggesting thins, but if Arvis is a GHB and is an armored mage, wouldn't an owl tome be viable on him? After all, armor emblem loves to turtle and owl tomes' effect works well when your turtiling. How does that sound?

Owl could work, but it just tends to be outclassed by Blade and even Raven tomes, which require less work for more punch.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Rezzy

[silverserpent]

1 hour ago, KongDude said:

Those two have the chance of being a great grandma.

I don't count third generation Morgan/Kana for continuity purposes. With Lissa-Owain/Odin-Ophelia and Olivia-Inigo/Laslow-Soleil, there's a clear lineage. And Kana can be either of the two women's grandchild, provided it's a FemCorrin playthrough.

[Poimagic]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

Owl could work, but it just tends to be outclassed by Blade and even Raven tomes, which require less work for more punch.

Yeah, that makes sense. Still, we will have to see if Arvis is even a Grand Hero Battle because who knows, they could have seen the guy who released leaks and decided to do something different this month. After all, no one expected the Performance Banner.

[property of nuvelle]

59 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

Yeah, that makes sense. Still, we will have to see if Arvis is even a Grand Hero Battle because who knows, they could have seen the guy who released leaks and decided to do something different this month. After all, no one expected the Performance Banner.

Eh, Idk if they'd change plans because of a leaker. Whoever it might be, the october calendar should tell us in a few days.

[Poimagic]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

Owl could work, but it just tends to be outclassed by Blade and even Raven tomes, which require less work for more punch.

Yeah, that makes sense. Still, we will have to see if Arvis is even a Grand Hero Battle because who knows, they could have seen the guy who released leaks and decided to do something different this month. After all, no one expected the Performance Banner.

[DehNutCase]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Having a flying movement type means you have more freedom in your positioning to get the opponent to stand in range. Furthermore, having a flying movement type means there is no terrain preventing another unit from Repositioning your attacker forward. Furthermore on top of that, Brave attackers with extremely high Atk have less use for their B slot, giving them the luxury of running positioning skills like Hit and Run or Drag Back to retreat after combat or Flier Formation to more easily reach opponents.

Fliers have superior mobility getting to and from opponents due to the fact that they are not affected by water or trees.

Having high range means that you have more freedom in your positioning to get the opponent to stand in range... because your range is bigger. Repositioning a unit forward takes a unit-turn---this is kind of why I like horses and hate armors, horses take less unit-turns to do everything, armors take more. Yes, Fliers have the first or second best reposition in the game, but the fact that you're repositioning forward rather than backwards isn't a good thing. Brave Attackers with high Atk isn't limited to fliers---it's not even limited to melee non-fliers---Lyn has 33 and Rein has 32. (The same reason def ploy is really good even on barely above average res kicks in here---anyone bulky on the res side is weak on the def side, and vice versa. Unless, of course, they're people like Selena who don't need to be killed in the first place, because they miss the ORKO on basically everyone. This basically gives Lyn & Rein the equivalent of Bolt-Beam coverage.) Brave Attackers with high Atk and high move can take coverage options easily in the B-slot, whether it's Guard, CA, anti-counter attack (sweep or Sacae's) or just a breaker. (Hit & Run and Drag Back is also strictly worse than simply being ranged in the first place, since your positioning is identical to a ranged unit that can't attack diagonally.)

Note: None of this applies to flying mages, they're great. Just... not great if you spend an entire C-slot on the melee flier for Def Ploy. (Melee Fliers benefit just as much from Def Ploy provided by someone else, whereas a Flying Mage can't get Hone Fliers if their idiot partner is running Def Ploy.) Skill slots are a thing. You can't just give Est the full benefit of Hone Fliers and Def Ploy and then ignore the fact you just slapped Def Ploy on her. You have to either: Give Type Mages a full +6 all stat buff suite (Est gets 2 C-slots of buffs, Mage gets 2 C-slots of buffs), or else take away Hone Fliers. (So Mages gets 1 C-slot of buff, Est one C-slot.)

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

What the fuck does this have anything to do with the argument?

You generally shouldn't run more than one Def Ploy unit in your team because a second Def Ploy is less effective than adding a buff skill. Because of this and the other points, you can't expect every enemy you fight to have -5 Def, which is what we're arguing.

You can't assume Def Ploy is active when rating all characters because you can't assume you even have Def Ploy on your team unless the character you are rating has Def Ploy. You can't assume that you will always have a unit with above-average Res on your team, but you can always assume that you will have several units with Hone Atk and/or Hone Spd (or a stronger variant) on your team.

This point had nothing to do with Est.

So Hone and Def Ploy is free for Est, simply because she has high res? The fact that she literally went from being a 'Better than Eirika' tier buffer down to 'Basically Rally Atk Physical' doesn't matter?

Reach, that is, less cost from positioning issues on ranged units, cavalry, and cavalry ranged units is what turns Def Ploy from 'Basically Rally Atk Physical' to 'Hone Atk Physical,' because they can reliably not spend their turn just to buff. Moreover, Mages, being the people that benefit the most from Hone and Fort don't care too much about running Def Ploy---because they're not going to be buffing themselves---whereas they very much care if a melee flier is running Def Ploy just because 'high res means the C-slot is free for some reason.'

Better positioning means more reliable Def Ploy. What kills Def Ploy isn't the Res requirement----Units are either: High Def, Low Res, in which case def ploy hits, Low Def, High Res, in which case def ploy isn't needed, or High Def, High Res, in which case they hit like paper napkins, and thus don't need to be killed immediately---it's the fact that positioning costs unit-turns. And, surprisingly, high reach units take less unit-turns to position themselves.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because she flies. Obstructions are a part of every map, and 3-move melee only beats flying melee in reach when there is nothing in the way.

AI manipulation is also a thing, which means perfect play allows you to force enemy units to stop on squares in range. Reach matters more when sniping opponents, but not when just killing enemies as they approach.

Obstructions are there for everyone---and the AI sucks at using fliers. A lineup is either all fliers, in which case movement is predictable and the lineup is easily sniped to death one by one, especially considering the fact that there are only two flying mages in the game, greatly limiting a flier's reach, or it's not, in which case the AI helpfully divide their team into two so you can pick each half off piecemeal. Horses don't have to beat everyone, they only have to beat the AI, and they always do.

AI Manipulation is easier when you have more mobility. Manipulation's is more of a requirement, certainly, for low range lineups, but high mobility lineups not only do it better (horses get to corners faster and regroup faster), they also need it less (when your range is half the map it matters a lot less how the enemy is positioned). Reach matters all the time, a weakness that you can avoid with effort is still a weakness. (I say this because I lived through 3 or 4 melee lineups that occasionally didn't even have a dancer---god I hate Sharena weeks so much. Even when Reinhardt or Lyn isn't attacking, their repositions are simply better than anyone elses' when it comes to getting the crap out. I like Cordelia's reposition a lot as well, but it's more for setup than for in-combat use, since her 2 move means that there's only a limited number of squares where she could stand, not be hit, and still contribute offensively.)

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The tier list explicitly says that they exclude accessibility of skills in its tier lists because they are ranking the characters' maximum potential. Their free-to-play tier list exists that takes accessibility into account.

Smogon's tier lists do the exact same thing and exclude accessibility because their metagame is based on a game simulator where all players have 100% accessibility to anything that was available to the game at any point for the purposes of fairness.

It's kind of funny they say that and then ignore the fact that CC Vantage -Blade +6 All stats is the perfect storm of near flawless player phase and enemy phase---and, in the case of Reinhardt, Leo, etc. highest possible mobility. Even S!Camilla and the like are great since they can mountain camp with their hliariously bloated stats. (Pity S!Corrin's stats are too aggressive to survive much on enemy phase, even after 6 extra def/res, meaning the team has coverage issues in the form of giant gaping holes.)

Leo's A rank, boys, which is basically below average tier. Even on the Class Buff lists he's still only S, somehow behind people like Effie.

 

[silverserpent]

9 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

Yeah, that makes sense. Still, we will have to see if Arvis is even a Grand Hero Battle because who knows, they could have seen the guy who released leaks and decided to do something different this month. After all, no one expected the Performance Banner.

Weeeell...true, we didn't expect the Performance specifically, but we were all expecting some sort of seasonal banner. What would surprise me is if the release a Halloween banner or a similar Fall-related banner after this one.

[Rezzy]

53 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Leo's A rank, boys, which is basically below average tier. Even on the Class Buff lists he's still only S, somehow behind people like Effie.

This is why I don't agree with their tier list.  For some reason we assume units have access to every skill in the game, including Def Ploy which has only been featured on one limited time seasonal 5* unit, but at the same time, assume that any unit with access to a blade tome, and +6 to every stat will not be running precisely that for some reason.  Units are never in a vacuum, team synergy is one of the biggest parts of team building.  You should assume a blade tome user at the very least will have access to +12 blue buffs to stats, if not more, since we're going by maximum potential.

I think the team synergized tier list should be the default, and they could keep the 1v1 tier list separate, if they want, but it's far less useful, when really trying to gauge a unit's true power.

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

This is why I don't agree with their tier list.  For some reason we assume units have access to every skill in the game, including Def Ploy which has only been featured on one limited time seasonal 5* unit, but at the same time, assume that any unit with access to a blade tome, and +6 to every stat will not be running precisely that for some reason.  Units are never in a vacuum, team synergy is one of the biggest parts of team building.  You should assume a blade tome user at the very least will have access to +12 blue buffs to stats, if not more, since we're going by maximum potential.

I think the team synergized tier list should be the default, and they could keep the 1v1 tier list separate, if they want, but it's far less useful, when really trying to gauge a unit's true power.

There's also the map itself, terrain, enemy skills, previous actions. . .it's quite the mess IMO.

[Rezzy]

Have they released the Arena Units for this week?  I'll probably run one of the new Dancers, unless they have a Horse in there.

[eclipse]

15 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Have they released the Arena Units for this week?  I'll probably run one of the new Dancers, unless they have a Horse in there.

If you like your arena score, run a different unit.  Azura's passable, but the rest have 139-140 BST, which is. . .bad.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

17 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Have they released the Arena Units for this week?  I'll probably run one of the new Dancers, unless they have a Horse in there.

The List is usually released at monday since the reset is Tuesday no?

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, silverserpent said:

What would surprise me is if the release a Halloween banner or a similar Fall-related banner after this one.

They did give us double swimsuit banners. Doing something else dress up heavily like drag/cross would be possible. Of course swimsuits are swimsuits and they sell b/c skin.

 

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

including Def Ploy which has only been featured on one limited time seasonal 5* unit

Reminds me of Wish!Blissey in Pokemon. Wasn't that based on a limited forgettable one-time Chansey release?

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

If you like your arena score, run a different unit.  Azura's passable, but the rest have 139-140 BST, which is. . .bad.

It really depends on what the other units are.  If I don't have any of them, it will have to be a Dancer.

1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

The List is usually released at monday since the reset is Tuesday no?

I think they've released them on Sunday before.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Reminds me of Wish!Blissey in Pokemon. Wasn't that based on a limited forgettable one-time Chansey release?

Yeah, I actually used that very example earlier in the thread.  Great minds think alike, I suppose.

[MrSmokestack]

39 minutes ago, eclipse said:

If you like your arena score, run a different unit.  Azura's passable, but the rest have 139-140 BST, which is. . .bad.

Not really. BST doesn’t play as much of a role in scoring, and merges can make up for the difference for anywhere but the highest rankings in arena.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

40 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They did give us double swimsuit banners. Doing something else dress up heavily like drag/cross would be possible. Of course swimsuits are swimsuits and they sell b/c skin.

 

Reminds me of Wish!Blissey in Pokemon. Wasn't that based on a limited forgettable one-time Chansey release?

The big difference is in pokemon hacking is pretty much allowed

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Not really. BST doesn’t play as much of a role in scoring, and merges can make up for the difference for anywhere but the highest rankings in arena.

It still has some effect.  I'm going to have a grand total of +0 on my merges, since I rarely hit duplicate 5* units.  Thus, I get to see just how much of an effect such stat drops have.

(unless Lucina's a bonus unit, in which case, I have a tier to jump)

[Rezzy]

15 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

The big difference is in pokemon hacking is pretty much allowed

Only in Smogen, not in the official matches.