Class Favourite 5: Archers

[bethany81707]

Archers are interesting units. With low staying power and being locked to 2 range, it's hard to rack up counterkills, making them struggle to gain experience.

Oh, how I miss Tellius, where the archers were potential endgame picks without needing a new weapon type (if only because of the Double Bow).

 

Here was an interesting decision- not lumping in the nomads. To be perfectly honest, I think Nomads, to some degree, fit in with Cavalier- because bow cavaliers like Midir and Astrid are so mechanically similar, yet are clearly paladins...

Cavalier might need a new split metric.

 

EDIT: Added the wayward Gaiden archers.

Edited January 24, 2017 by phineas81707

[maybe]

why aren't the guys from gaiden included they're the best

voted ryan for classic but i probably would've voted for one of them from gaiden if i could've

also voted wil though I'm not really sure why I guess I just like him cause he's an ordinary dude

noire for awakening/fates i fucking love noire i don't know why but i just love her so much she's the only character in awakening I care about and I have no idea why

Edited January 24, 2017 by unique

[bethany81707]

Had trouble finding the guys from Gaiden- weren't listed. Unless you were talking about the villagers?

[Slumber]

No fair, Briggid gets to be on two polls.

Febail and Shinon are my answers. I HATE all of the Awakening/Fates archers, so not going to pick there.

[KoimanZX]

1. I picked Wolf due to his brokenness in Shadow Dragon (I usually make him a warrior in order to take advantage of his strength and keep his bow rank).

2. Shinon is an obvious choice due to his great bulk (in Radiant Dawn, anyway).

3. I cannot say I really like any of the archers that much.

I find it funny how archers in video games often have such low strength when bows in real life actually require a fair amount of back strength to use.

Edited January 24, 2017 by KoimanZX

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Briggid, Wil, and Virion.

[bethany81707]

11 minutes ago, Slumber said:

No fair, Briggid gets to be on two polls.

Febail and Shinon are my answers. I HATE all of the Awakening/Fates archers, so not going to pick there.

She won't be the last. I'd honestly say Briggid/Evyel is the MOST fair of all the examples we'll meet.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

I honestly don't like how Rolf is overshadowed by Shinon especially since the former develops more as character in not just PoR but even still in RD where as most PoR characters don't get that additional character development. I well give this to Shinon he does develop in PoR unlike Soren who remains stagnant and rather understandably so I'm not saying they're not interesting characters but I value those that do go through those changes a lot more. Like I feel Shinon could have worked on his "sub-human" racism which actually does seem to spark in his support with Janaff, but it doesn't really go else where...

Now unit wise for them I don't understand the complaints for Rolf in Path of Radiance seeing as it's already a pretty easy game and Bexp helps him get up to the others.

Edited January 24, 2017 by AbsoluteZer0Nova

[Slumber]

6 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

I honestly don't like how Rolf is overshadowed by Shinon especially since the former develops more as character in not just PoR but even still in RD where as most PoR characters don't get that additional character development. I well give this to Shinon he does develop in PoR unlike Soren who remains stagnant and rather understandably so I'm not saying they're not interesting characters but I value those that do go through those changes a lot more. Like I feel Shinon could have worked on his "sub-human" racism which actually does seem to spark in his support with Janaff, but it doesn't really go else where...

Now unit wise for them I don't understand the complains for Rolf in Path of Radiance seeing as it's already a pretty easy game and Bexp helps him get up to the others.

Shinon, while a complete asshole, has a fun/distinct personality in PoR, even though Rolf surpasses him as a unit by the end.

In RD, however, Shinon has clearly had some development, but still has his smartass/cynical wisecracks, and as a unit, he's on par or surpasses Rolf. Both are incredible units, due to Marksman being such a great class(Leo still sucks complete ass as a unit), but Shinon has a more distinct personality and design. Rolf is just "a nice guy who may as well be a time traveling Wolt" as far as personality and design go. And then his older brother steals his girlfriend.

If you like Rolf, more power to you, but Shinon generally leaves much more of an impression.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Slumber

[Parrhesia]

1 hour ago, phineas81707 said:

Had trouble finding the guys from Gaiden- weren't listed. Unless you were talking about the villagers?

Not counting the villagers, they're called Python and Leo - well, they were, at least. I don't know what the updated translations have them as.

Wish I could vote for Shinon, Igrene and Innes tbh.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Parrhesia

[bethany81707]

5 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

Not counting the villagers, they're called Python and Leo - well, they were, at least. I don't know what the updated translations have them as.

Wish I could vote for Shinon, Igrene and Innes tbh.

I think I found the problem: the resorce I used doesn't list them as potential Snipers, while a search lsst night convinced me that all archers were listed.

Well, now I've made mistakes in all three eras. Hope that means I'm done.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

14 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Shinon, while a complete asshole, has a fun/distinct personality in PoR, even though Rolf surpasses him as a unit by the end.

In RD, however, Shinon has clearly had some development, and as a unit, he's on par or surpasses Rolf. Both are incredible units, due to Marksman being such a great class(Leo still sucks complete ass as a unit), but Shinon has a more distinct personality and design. Rolf is just "a nice guy who may as well be a time traveling Wolt" as far as personality and design go.

If you like Rolf, more power to you, but Shinon generally leaves much more of an impression.

Yes he does, but it's just from what I've seen a extension of his already established relationship with Rolf. Like I said his sub-human hostilities are a missed opportunity at being settled. Also Rolf gives that appearance off by all means which is all the more reason he's overlooked and because he starts at a low level even (even though he isn't like Nino's situation) I liked the development he went through as a child soldier and the theme of how he must kill or be killed (or his allies suffer that fate) in his support with Mist and the mother situation is handled very good in Radiant Dawn like how you would expect it to be done seeing as how she left him and shouldn't be jumping for joy at the fact she now wants him. So I gotta disagree with the leaving more of a impression (though I guess if you haven't played Sacred Stones first I could see why) especially since Innes imo inspired some of what we see in Shinon and Takumi.

Edited January 24, 2017 by AbsoluteZer0Nova

[Slumber]

14 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

Yes he does, but it's just from what I've seen a extension of his already established relationship with Rolf. Like I said his sub-human hostilities are a missed opportunity at being settled. Also Rolf gives that appearance off by all means I liked the development he went through as a child soldier and the theme of how he must kill or be killed (or his allies suffer that fate) in his support with Mist and the mother situation is handled very good in Radiant Dawn like how you would expect it to be done seeing as how she left him and shouldn't be jumping for joy at the fact she now wants him. So I gotta disagree with the leaving more of a impression (though I guess if you haven't played Sacred Stones first I could see why) especially since Innes imo inspired some of what we see in Shinon and Takumi.

I mean, saying Innes inspired Shinon doesn't mean that much, since the same thing happens with Rolf. There have been plenty of existential/contemplative child soldiers who shoulder their grief because if they don't, their friends will die. Fire Emblem is basically built off of those characters.

Shinon's character development also comes through without Rolf. His biggest character flaw(Or his most emphasized one) is his blatant racism towards Laguz, which also gets development in his supports with Janaff. Rolf makes Shinon nicer and more receptive to the idea of working with Ike's group, but it's not accurate to say that Shinon only gets to where he is because of Rolf.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Slumber

[Punished Dayni]

Brigged, Neimi, Virion

Brigged, for being a pirate queen before taking a holy weapon and the . Even if I don't like certain things about her plot, she herself is still nice. HM to Ryan, Faval, Jamke and Tanya.

Neimi because of growth unit bias and she can be on a horse. Character wise.... OK, she's nothing special. Competition is pretty much Rebecca (Nice enough, and actually has a neat side story), Louise, Dorothy and Igrene.

Virion because Setsuna is Setsuna with just having Speed and we all blame Takumi for something.

Also,  @phineas81707 are you counting Bow Knights and Nomads? Because you have some in the lists (Wolf/Sedgar) and some who promote into horseriders, but not others like Lester. And you're also missing at least the Gaiden guys.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Dayni

[Tolvir]

Voted Wolf, because I like his name. Again, I don't know classic at all so its just going off of a name.

Leonardo for Veteran. I really liked the design of archers in Radiant Dawn. All the way up to Marksman, the Archers looked great. The final look with Marksman reminded me heavily of Rangers in other fantasy games, which made me like them more. 

While Shinon is the superior archer stat wise in comparison to Leo, I cannot stand Shinon the character. So Leonardo always wins the contest for me. I always take him into end game over Shinon. Even if he performs slightly lower. Its not like he is a bad unit anyway, Marksman in Radiant Dawn are great.

Voted Setsuna for recent. Didn't like Virion, let alone the design of archers in Awakening (or any of the class designs really). Was not big on Takumi. Even if he was one of the better written characters of Fates, he is still a dick to a lot of people for no reason, like Shinon 2.0 but worst. Noire might of made the cut, but the design of archers again. Honestly, I didn't like their design in Fates either, but at least it was an improvement over Awakening.

(Can we please get a return of Marksman design for archers? I want my archers to look bad ass again.)

[bethany81707]

9 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Also,  @phineas81707 are you counting Bow Knights and Nomads? Because you have some in the lists (Wolf/Sedgar) and some who promote into horseriders, but not others like Lester. And you're also missing at least the Gaiden guys.

Wolf and Sedgar are Horsemen, promoted Hunters. Dropping Hunters because they promote into Horsemen makes Neimi an edge case, so they remain.

Midir, Lester and Astrid are Bow Cavaliers. Largely due to Tellius, this makes them feel more at home on the Cavalier list.

The Nomads, mechanically, are more similar to the Bow Cavaliers than the Horsemen, so I will treat them as such.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

50 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I mean, saying Innes inspired Shinon doesn't mean that much, since the same thing happens with Rolf. There have been plenty of existential/contemplative child soldiers who shoulder their grief because if they don't, their friends will die. Fire Emblem is basically built off of those characters.

Shinon's character development also comes through without Rolf. His biggest character flaw(Or his most emphasized one) is his blatant racism towards Laguz, which also gets development in his supports with Janaff. Rolf makes Shinon nicer and more receptive to the idea of working with Ike's group, but it's not accurate to say that Shinon only gets to where he is because of Rolf.

I know about the archetypes, I'm just saying his character isn't completely new and didn't leave much an impact for me personally as say Niles (especially since his backstory is darker but localization toned it down) who I would have voted here, but he's not a choice. Also care to give some examples? The only other case I see that in as far as the games that actually came outside of Japan have been Rolf and Ricken with his support with Henry. The thing is while Ewan with his support with Tethy's has the wanting to protect his own loved one it isn't like how Rolf and Ricken where they have the understanding that when they take life they're killing people who are just like them who had goals in life, dreams to fulfill and perhaps had someone precious to them waiting home. It has more of a shades of gray and even further maturity to it and I'm sure any other child goes through that to, however it's not mentioned.

Also I appreciate the flaw, it's just that unfortunately IS gives this false spark of maybe he's opening up more to the Laguz, but it doesn't go anywhere and he is still just as hateful of them in RD with not even a bit of improvement when confronting. As such I would have been happier if they didn't give that red herring as it were. No, but Rolf does manage to be the key that makes Shinon open up and without him Shinon probably would be dead seeing as Rolf needs to talk to Shinon as one of the conditions to re-recruit him.

Edit: Going to have to call it a night.

Edited January 24, 2017 by AbsoluteZer0Nova

[bethany81707]

AbsoluteZer0Nova, I did check for Fates classes (do it by instinct now). 'Outlaw' redirected to 'Thief', so I'm going to lump Niles and his crew with the thieves.

[Cornguy]

Briggid, honorable pirate, legendary bow, works for me. HM to the Thracia archers. They kinda suck, but I like them.

Shinon. One of few FE characters with a realistic and blatant character flaw who still manages to be likable. He's a sweetheart to Rolf sure, but I think being a racist, opportunistic mercenary outweighs him being nice to a single character. And I like that. In a series full of complicated characters and redeemable misfits, one character who is just an asshole deep down is refreshing. HMs to nobody, I love the other archers, but none come close enough to Shinon. Dorothy is cute though.

Virion. I like him, the other characters kinda undeservedly shit on him, and I think he deserves better. HM to Setsuna for having a nice design, outweighed by not so great dialogue.

[Sylphid]

Jeorge, Louise and Virion

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

• classic: Jamke is awesome, even without Ichival.
• veteran: FE10 Shinon. I have to admit FE10 Rolf can become as amazing as him too, but he needs a few more levels.
• modern: Can't give an opinion. I really like Setsuna but she's not that great. As for the others I really don't care or know.

 

[Magical Glace]

Ryan, Wolt, and Takumi

...Mainly Wolt.

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

6 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

AbsoluteZer0Nova, I did check for Fates classes (do it by instinct now). 'Outlaw' redirected to 'Thief', so I'm going to lump Niles and his crew with the thieves.

Alright then, that makes sense.

[Jeheza]

Norne, Leonardo, Setsuna. Shinon and Rebecca were pretty close for the Veteran choice.

[The DanMan]

Went with Wolf, IDK, and Takumi.