XRay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Junkhead said: Don't be one of those lame-Os that stick her with Death Blow > Amiti. Her Spd is built to quad. What's going to be touching you when you're quadding with 50 Spd Spd on top of Desperation? My -Spd Elincia could reach 46 Spd, and it's not like people like Ayra & Soleil won't die in two hits. Amiti-Death Blow is cheap. With Luna-Axebreaker, she will be a good axe killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, XRay said: Do you use a flier team? I find some of the maps harder to avoid the enemy since some of the maps basically funnel the two teams together. Nah, I only have one good flier (+4 Robin). I always use Cain since he's my highest scorer, and Felicia and/or Sheena depending on whether blessings, etc can be used to increase anyone else. Most enemies tend to go after Felicia for being the easiest target, which made it easy to control the direction of battle, so long as she's not cornered. With Frederick and Cain, most maps gave me the advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I pulled another Nephenee, which brings my Wrath fodder to two. I want to save one for potentially building an Ayra later but I was wondering who could use the last one. I already have Nephenee (not for fodder) and Lyn with wrath so I'm thinking an axe user would be nice this time. Any recommendations? Would Wrath on LA!Hector be a bad idea? Would Anna be good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, NekoKnight said: Any recommendations? Would Wrath on LA!Hector be a bad idea? Would Anna be good? Put it on LA!Hector with Bonfire will be amazing. It is one of his optimal build instead of using Bold Fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpsons138 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Pulled a +Def -Spd Shigure, gonna give his weapon to someone, I’m between Catria, Finn, Subaki and Azura, who should I give it to or who else is a good candidate? For references, I’ve got all but one lancer (no Sumia) and I already have a +Spd -Res Shigure ready to promote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 @XRay Something else I want to point out is that I never actually stated my playstyle is to aim for raw survibility and outlasting over killing. Killing is still a priority, but not to the extent I'd sacrifice the ability to consistently fight against more opponents and longer. An example of this is Steady Breath + Wrath, where you end up with single digits in a lot of matchups next to something like Steady Breath + Guard in spite of it's insane killing power. It's not any less realistic than hoping to meet one opponent at time, which is something you're not as picky about with Enemy Phase builds. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 hour ago, NekoKnight said: I pulled another Nephenee, which brings my Wrath fodder to two. I want to save one for potentially building an Ayra later but I was wondering who could use the last one. I already have Nephenee (not for fodder) and Lyn with wrath so I'm thinking an axe user would be nice this time. Any recommendations? Would Wrath on LA!Hector be a bad idea? Would Anna be good? Hector's Berserk Armads + Bonfire + Distant Counter + Wrath + Quickened Pulse build is absurd. I highly recommend it. Fir, Karel, and anyone with Renewal on their weapon are also good choices. Also pretty much anyone running a Slaying weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Junkhead said: @XRay Something else I want to point out is that I never actually stated my playstyle is to aim for raw survibility and outlasting over killing. Killing is still a priority, but not to the extent I'd sacrifice the ability to consistently fight against more opponents and longer. An example of this is Steady Breath + Wrath, where you end up with single digits in a lot of matchups next to something like Steady Breath + Guard in spite of it's insane killing power. It's not any less realistic than hoping to meet one opponent at time, which is something you're not as picky about with Enemy Phase builds. Â Except for Firesweep teams, my teams are color balanced, so each unit rarely fights more than 2 enemies. There is no reason to plan for fights that last longer than 2 rounds of combat if another teammate can do the job safer and faster unless you are going for bonus kills. Meeting one or two enemies at a time is pretty realistic, and if it is two different colored enemies, I just match the stronger color and park it at the edge of enemy range. Edited August 19, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, XRay said: Except for Firesweep teams, my teams are color balanced, so each unit rarely fights more than 2 enemies. There is no reason to plan for fights last longer than 2 rounds of combat if another teammate can do the job safer and faster unless you are going for bonus kills. Meeting one or two enemies at a time is pretty realistic, and if it is two different colored enemies, I just match the stronger color and park it at the edge of enemy range. nevermind, misread  Edited August 19, 2018 by Junkhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Junkhead said: Firesweep don't apply to this at all. They're strictly Player Phase. I know, I am referring to teams that I build when I am not running Firesweep, hence besides them, all my other teams are color balanced. Edited August 19, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, XRay said: I know, I am referring to teams that I build when I am not running Firesweep, hence besides them, all my other teams are color balanced. Stop quotting things I editted out. >( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Junkhead said: Stop quotting things I editted out. >( I did not see the edit until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) @XRay You say that there's never really a point where you can have "too much" Spd, even from a defensive standpoint. However, looking at my example with Darting Stance (a bit on the extreme side, I know), I find that I could pick something else that would have my stats go to other important stats like Def when the only people are doubling you are likely outliers like Ayra, Soleil, Nino, etc. I'm curious as to how you would choose to go about this. The Ayra example is likely what you would call "Spd optimised", or just simply Spd dumped so she reaches 50+ (doesn't she prefer Phantom Spd for massive R.Astra?). The same goes to other examples, whereas I would more often see things like Nowis & Fae in the lower 30s in stead of defensive stats which only makes sense to me. Edited August 19, 2018 by Junkhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Junkhead said: @XRay You say that there's never really a point where you can have "too much" Spd, even from a defensive standpoint. However, looking at my example with Darting Stance (a bit on the extreme side, I know), I find that I could pick something else that would have my stats go to other important stats like Def when the only people are doubling you are likely outliers like Ayra, Soleil, Nino, etc. I'm curious as to how you would choose to go about this. I generally assume enemies will be at a stat advantage when I plan my builds to account for higher merges and buffs. Most of the time when I am lazy, I just set my unit to +0 and enemies to +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury. If I know I am going to get a unit to +10, then I set the enemies to +10, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury, 3/3/3/3 Spurs. Ayra, Soliel, Nino, etc. are not outliers when they are some of the most common units in Arena. While there are 200+ Heroes in the game, only a fraction are common in Arena. Edited August 19, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, XRay said: Ayra, Soliel, Nino, etc. are not outliers when they are some of the most common units in Arena. While there are 200+ Heroes in the game, only a fraction are common in Arena. Yeah, but they're still not like 90% of the game, like some make it seem 40 Spd is trash. There are a lot more Dragons and Armours, which don't seem to care all that much about Spd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Junkhead said: Yeah, but they're still not like 90% of the game, like some make it seem 40 Spd is trash. There are a lot more Dragons and Armours, which don't seem to care all that much about Spd. Â Spd tanks need Spd because they will most likely die if doubled, so they need around 45 Spd to prevent doubles from Player Phase enemies who can easily reach around 50 Spd. I still see plenty of non dragon infantry like Ayra, Mia, Soleil, Karla, Nephenee, and Raven. So while they are not 90% of the Arena units, fast offensive units still make up a decent fraction, and not preparing for them is risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 hours ago, XRay said: Spd tanks need Spd because they will most likely die if doubled, so they need around 45 Spd to prevent doubles from Player Phase enemies who can easily reach around 50 Spd. I still see plenty of non dragon infantry like Ayra, Mia, Soleil, Karla, Nephenee, and Raven. So while they are not 90% of the Arena units, fast offensive units still make up a decent fraction, and not preparing for them is risky. But if that's the case, it still doesn't address their actual defensive stats. Even a lot of defensive units end up sacrificing some Def/Res, which doesn't translate as well to all their other Dragon & Armour matchups (which I argue are far more common). Stacking amazing defenses on top of Guard means a lot more. It's not even as hard or unreliable as people make it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpsons138 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Simpsons138 said: Pulled a +Def -Spd Shigure, gonna give his weapon to someone, I’m between Catria, Finn, Subaki and Azura, who should I give it to or who else is a good candidate? For references, I’ve got all but one lancer (no Sumia) and I already have a +Spd -Res Shigure ready to promote Never mind, since everyone was talking about speedy units (and ignored my question), I already gave it to Azura, just need the stones to give her the speed refine, at least until she gets a legendary weapon Edit: Since I did pull two more 4* Shigure, used the chance to give her Darting Stance and Noontime, both which will be useful another time, just need Aether and she's set Edited August 20, 2018 by Simpsons138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Junkhead said: But if that's the case, it still doesn't address their actual defensive stats. Even a lot of defensive units end up sacrificing some Def/Res, which doesn't translate as well to all their other Dragon & Armour matchups (which I argue are far more common). Stacking amazing defenses on top of Guard means a lot more. It's not even as hard or unreliable as people make it out to be. There are two main types of tanks: Spd tanks and Def/Res tanks. Spd tanks want to maximize Spd to prevent doubling, and they generally have just enough bulk to take one hit. They Spd stack and run Quick Riposte-Speed +3 Sacred Seal. They do not need Guard because they are not going to be doubled; unless the enemy already has their Special fully charged via Quickened Pulse, Infantry Pulse, etc., the enemy will not be able to trigger their Special in time before getting killed. Spd tanks can tank just about anyone besides one-shot builds, Brave-Moonbow-Quickened Pulse builds, and Bold Fighter armors. Def/Res tanks want to maximize damage reduction from each hit. They are also usually colored to further reduce damage. They Def/Res stack and their B slot-Sacred Seal slot is a bit more flexible with Quick Riposte occupying one of them. Def/Res tanks generally dump Spd so they can be doubled and activate a stronger Special. Most Def/Res tanks have lopsided Def/Res and are vulnerable in the defensive stat they do not specialize in. Armor units are generally very high in both Def and Res, but they are balanced by their vulnerability to armor effective Weapons, which are pretty easy to obtain. You can run tanks and try to maximize both their Spd and Def/Res, but the hybrid tank lacks the raw killing power of the above two and are generally more specialized to deal with a very specific type of enemy, like Felicia and Niles specializing against mages. I personally would not run these tanks because I want my tanks to kill as much stuff as possible, and leaving low health enemies around is dangerous and risky. 37 minutes ago, Simpsons138 said: Never mind, since everyone was talking about speedy units (and ignored my question), I already gave it to Azura, just need the stones to give her the speed refine, at least until she gets a legendary weapon I would prioritize a combat unit rather than a support unit, but if you need Azura to score higher, Harmonic Lance is better than Sapphire Lance for scoring. I gave my Olivia Wo Dao [Res] so she can take out non-nuking green mages.. For Player Phase units, Wo Weapons-Moonbow usually offers better first round performance compared to Slaying Weapons-Luna. However, if you do not mind sacrificing first round performance for better second round performance and beyond, Slaying Weapons-Moonbow is the way to go. For Enemy Phase units, Wo-Moobow is usually better for Spd tanks, while Slaying-Ignis/Glacies is usually better for slow Def/Res tanks. Edited August 20, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) Double post. Edited August 20, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, XRay said: Spd tanks want to maximize Spd to prevent doubling, and they generally have just enough bulk to take one hit. They Spd stack and run Quick Riposte-Speed +3 Sacred Seal. They do not need Guard because they are not going to be doubled; unless the enemy already has their Special fully charged via Quickened Pulse, Infantry Pulse, etc., the enemy will not be able to trigger their Special in time before getting killed. Spd tanks can tank just about anyone besides one-shot builds, Brave-Moonbow-Quickened Pulse builds, and Bold Fighter armors. I take it this narrows down to stuff like Ayra and Karla, mostly. My critique here is that it feels they're out of comission beyond a single encounter, unless they have a very strong oneshot potential like Wrath Ayra with a Slaying. It's a fairly new concept for me when you tie this with DC, which is what I'm aiming to do with my Libra: Quote +Atk/-Res @+2 Set is A: DC B: Wrath C: Atk Smoke S: Close Def Special: Moonbow Buffs: Def Tactic (BK), Res Tactic (Azura), Hagoita (+2 Def/Res), Drive Def, Handbell (+2 "Stance" effect everywhere) Â Do you think there is something I can do to make this even better? My idea is to try and be able to counter ranged units and not entirely sacrificing melee encounters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Junkhead said: I take it this narrows down to stuff like Ayra and Karla, mostly. My critique here is that it feels they're out of comission beyond a single encounter, unless they have a very strong oneshot potential like Wrath Ayra with a Slaying. It's a fairly new concept for me when you tie this with DC, which is what I'm aiming to do with my Libra: My Enemy Phase units are usually out after one or two rounds of combat if they face nukes that are the same color as them. They are not designed to last long since my battles are over very quickly. 2 hours ago, Junkhead said: Do you think there is something I can do to make this even better? My idea is to try and be able to counter ranged units and not entirely sacrificing melee encounters. I would put Firestorm Dance on HNY!Azura if you ever come across Lene. Alternatively, HNY!Azura can run Gale Dance; Atk Tactic can go on the C slot of either HNY!Azura or Black Knight; and the bonus unit can run Def Tactic or Res Tactic on their Sacred Seal slot. Other than that, after watching your video, your play style is very different from mine, so I do not think I have much to offer. Since you are using Libra as the main combatant, I would switch Black Knight to a blue unit in case there is a red unit that Libra cannot handle. Edited August 20, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercakete Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Ok, so please excuse this ridiculous tardiness of this question, but when does the game decide which units are in which orbs when you're summoning? I've been assuming the game decides it after you select which node to explore, but does it actually decide all 5 units after you spend the first 5 orbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mercakete said: Ok, so please excuse this ridiculous tardiness of this question, but when does the game decide which units are in which orbs when you're summoning? I've been assuming the game decides it after you select which node to explore, but does it actually decide all 5 units after you spend the first 5 orbs? It does. It decides the five units and then covers them up with coloured stones. The declared maths wouldn’t have matched any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, Mercakete said: Ok, so please excuse this ridiculous tardiness of this question, but when does the game decide which units are in which orbs when you're summoning? I've been assuming the game decides it after you select which node to explore, but does it actually decide all 5 units after you spend the first 5 orbs? Yep, the units are already decided once you pay the 5 Orbs~ From the Summoning Page: "Once the five summoning stones appear, the Heroes for each of the stones have already been determined based on the appearance rates applicable at the time of summoning" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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