Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

24 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

I tried to build a spreadsheet on these assumptions and I used this formula to calculate a kind of rating (not the actual arena score) to compare my units: 

BST + (merge level * 10) + (overall SP learned / 20)

If I build my AA team following this rating, its BH!Lucina+0, BH!Roy+1, BH!Ike+0 & Hector+0 and they get slightly better scores (max 702) in arena than my team with the highest merges (Ninian +3, BH!Roy+1, Ephraim+1, MB!Marth+1). It seems I can only compare 5* units, because Cherche 4* +7 would get the highest rating, while she doesn't boost arena score if substituted for Hector. 

  Hide contents

 

Is this method applicable? Do I have to calculate the BST before merges or the BST after merges? 

Merges have a really weird way of working in Arena from what i observed

 

To put it simply, lets just say the value you get from Merge is double decked by the value you get from extra BST. So: Hector +0 with his 168 Base stats could probably have less worth than Cecilia +2 despite the BST swing

[mampfoid]

2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Merges have a really weird way of working in Arena from what i observed

 

To put it simply, lets just say the value you get from Merge is double decked by the value you get from extra BST. So: Hector +0 with his 168 Base stats could probably have less worth than Cecilia +2 despite the BST swing

Cecilia 5* +2 would only get a higher rating than Hector if equipped the most expensive skills (300 on assist, 500 on special, 240 on A-C-Slots):
BST 159 + (merge level 2 * 10) + (overall SP learned 1820 / 20) = 270

With a more standard build she would get: 
BST 159 + (merge level 2 * 10) + (overall SP learned 1250 / 20) = 241.5

While Standard Hector +0 (Armads, DC, Vantage, Swap, Bonfire) gets
BST 185 + (merge level 0 * 10) + (overall SP learned 1550 / 20) = 262.5

 

The new Brave heroes get high ratings mostly because of their expensive weapons/skills. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by mampfoid
Typo

[DehNutCase]

8 hours ago, mampfoid said:

I tried to build a spreadsheet on these assumptions and I used this formula to calculate a kind of rating (not the actual arena score) to compare my units: 

BST + (merge level * 10) + (overall SP learned / 20)

If I build my AA team following this rating, its BH!Lucina+0, BH!Roy+1, BH!Ike+0 & Hector+0 and they get slightly better scores (max 702 708) in arena than my team with the highest merges (Ninian +3, BH!Roy+1, Ephraim+1, MB!Marth+1). It seems I can only compare 5* units, because Cherche 4* +7 would get the highest rating, while she doesn't boost arena score if substituted for Hector. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Is this method applicable? Do I have to calculate the BST before merges or the BST after merges? 

Mind, the reddit post I took the data from only calculated for 5* units. Though the BST should be before merges. (Also, are you sure you shouldn't divide BST by 10?)

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/6dun7r/arena_score_calculations/

 

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Mind, the reddit post I took the data from only calculated for 5* units. Though the BST should be before merges. (Also, are you sure you shouldn't divide BST by 10?)

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/6dun7r/arena_score_calculations/

 

From what I understood: 1 merge equals 200 SP equals 10 BST. Therefore my method should suffice to compare my units, but not to calculate the exact score.

According to the Reddit post, the formula for calculating team score would look like this:

Spoiler

(Score with bonus units) = 600 + (total BST, including stat seals, before merges)/10 + (total base SP cost of skills and weapons equipped)/200 + (total number of merges) + (number of fortify/spur seals)/2 - 6

The OP divides BST by 10 like you wrote, but adds a kind of base BST (150 per unit). I don't calculate the seals because they can be moved to the final team and wouldn't affect the direct comparison. 

Therefore the individual score would look like this:

150 + (BST/10) + (merge level) + (overall SP learned / 200)

In Hector's case: 150+(185/10) +0 +(1550/200) = 176,25

A team of four Hectors would score ~705 (plus whatever seals add), which seams accurate to me.  

Thanks again! 

[LordFrigid]

@Hilda Is your defense team Sonya, Brave Mercenary Ike, Tana, and Ninian? If so...I just wound up facing it; I've been messing around with iOS 11's built-in screen recorder, so it's below if you're interested.

Spoiler

I wanted to finish out the season using an Askr unit for the bonus unit, because I need to get used to not having 4 Goads, but forgot that it's Anna in the rotation and not Sharena, whoops. Also, I totally flubbed the opening movement positions (for some reason I thought Tana would break the wall in front of her, which seems silly in retrospect), and basically only got through because Caeda's Res is just silly.

 

[Hilda]

8 hours ago, LordFrigid said:

@Hilda Is your defense team Sonya, Brave Mercenary Ike, Tana, and Ninian? If so...I just wound up facing it; I've been messing around with iOS 11's built-in screen recorder, so it's below if you're interested.

  Hide contents

I wanted to finish out the season using an Askr unit for the bonus unit, because I need to get used to not having 4 Goads, but forgot that it's Anna in the rotation and not Sharena, whoops. Also, I totally flubbed the opening movement positions (for some reason I thought Tana would break the wall in front of her, which seems silly in retrospect), and basically only got through because Caeda's Res is just silly.

 

That was my Team, i forgot to change Ikes Special back to Bonfire it seems after Tempest Trials XD.
Looks like you had no Trouble takeing them all out

Edited September 24, 2017 by Hilda

[Ledrert]

And it goes ! Deathless run, at last ! Well, not my first, but that's nice tho.

Spoiler

4792 points, I'll go, without a doubt, tier 19 next season.

Team :

Spoiler

First time trying to show my team by picture.

Well, so. Again, not counting Horse Emblem (which I didn't encounter even once this time), not much to say except my trio work very well together. I add Lissa in replacement of Alm because she's a focus. And I promoted her 5* since she's one of my favourite (and I have so much feathers at hand).

Easy season, encountering some mid-difficult teams in my favourite map (the clear map with breakable walls like a chess). The worst, on this map, was a full melee team. Baiting and counting on Robin to take off Ike and Ryoma (who were searching to take off Katarina. Robin protect her until he was able to kill them. Nice bouding event, when I know that they support each other x) ) and got a little lucky with his Lukas repositioning his B!Ike.

I've encountering an Armor-emblem too (+ Elincia) with Hector, BK and an Effie with Distant Counter. BK is complicated, but I can count on Robin for that.

And I've encountered that too :

Spoiler

I'd like to have a Lyn like that. I'm not sure about the Brash Assault thing, when I see her speed, but...

 

[Friendly_Ram]

I'm trying to hit rank 20 but my current team can't seem to hit it even with 7x perfect clears. 

Currently nino+1 with fury(summoner s and s ranked with erika)

Erika 

Effie

And kagero as the bonus unit. Is there anything i can do to improve?

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Friendly_Ram said:

I'm trying to hit rank 20 but my current team can't seem to hit it even with 7x perfect clears. 

Currently nino+1 with fury(summoner s and s ranked with erika)

Erika 

Effie

And kagero as the bonus unit. Is there anything i can do to improve?

It depends on your build, the boon/banes of your characters, and how far away you are from rank 20.

[Friendly_Ram]

9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

It depends on your build, the boon/banes of your characters, and how far away you are from rank 20.

rank 19 

glass cannon+sdp-res nino+1 with fury

erika is+atk-def a buff bot raising all 4 stats

efiie is +def-res

kagero is +spd-res

average of 680 points per arena match

Edited September 24, 2017 by Friendly_Ram
adding info

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, Friendly_Ram said:

rank 19 

glass cannon+sdp-res nino+1 with fury

erika is+atk-def a buff bot raising all 4 stats

efiie is +def-res

kagero is +spd-res

Not actual rank, but "I'm ranked (insert five-digit number here), and rank 20 cutoff is (insert some other number here)".  You can find this by looking at Rewards.

Eir's +Atk advantage is neutralized by Kagero's -Res.  Your team is neutral in that regard.

Builds are what weapons/skills everyone has.  The higher the build's SP cost, the more points you'll gain.

[Rafiel's Aria]

11 minutes ago, Friendly_Ram said:

rank 19 

glass cannon+sdp-res nino+1 with fury

erika is+atk-def a buff bot raising all 4 stats

efiie is +def-res

kagero is +spd-res

average of 680 points per arena match

Are all characters 5 stars? Do they have a + weapon, all passives up to their final level, an assist, special, and S Seal? Getting into tier 20 isn't too difficult for me. Without merges and a fully SIed team, I can generally make it into tier 20. I can't remember the lowest score I've managed to get to advance to tier 20. I think 4820 can squeeze in.

[Friendly_Ram]

25 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Not actual rank, but "I'm ranked (insert five-digit number here), and rank 20 cutoff is (insert some other number here)".  You can find this by looking at Rewards.

Eir's +Atk advantage is neutralized by Kagero's -Res.  Your team is neutral in that regard.

Builds are what weapons/skills everyone has.  The higher the build's SP cost, the more points you'll gain.

20589 in tier 19

cutoff is 9630

Edits show up in notification?

Edited September 24, 2017 by Friendly_Ram
learning i guess?

[Friendly_Ram]

6 minutes ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

Are all characters 5 stars? Do they have a + weapon, all passives up to their final level, an assist, special, and S Seal? Getting into tier 20 isn't too difficult for me. Without merges and a fully SIed team, I can generally make it into tier 20. I can't remember the lowest score I've managed to get to advance to tier 20. I think 4820 can squeeze in.

all 5 stars slots filled A,B,C,S slots filled just need to give kagero a assist move to clean that up. and yes all are 5 stars.

4571 is my current max in tier 19.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Friendly_Ram said:

20589 in tier 19

cutoff is 9630

Unless you do some insanely heavy SI/merging (Aether on everyone as an example), I don't think you're going to make it this week.  I know several people on here are in tier 20, and they're sporting multiple merged 5* units.

Also, use the Edit button instead of posting twice in a row.

[Rafiel's Aria]

2 minutes ago, Friendly_Ram said:

all 5 stars slots filled A,B,C,S slots filled just need to give kagero a assist move to clean that up. and yes all are 5 stars.

4571 is my current max in tier 19.

That's really low for 7-streak perfect run. If you're getting an average of 680, you should be getting closer to 4760 per run. Making sure everyone has all skills help. The only thing I might recommend is switching out Kagero for a bonus unit with a higher BST if you have one. Other than that, merges and more expensive skills are the way to go. What skills do you currently have on all your characters?

[Friendly_Ram]

1 minute ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

That's really low for 7-streak perfect run. If you're getting an average of 680, you should be getting closer to 4760 per run. Making sure everyone has all skills help. The only thing I might recommend is switching out Kagero for a bonus unit with a higher BST if you have one. Other than that, merges and more expensive skills are the way to go. What skills do you currently have on all your characters?

ninos A:fury B: desperation C: threaten res S:quickened pulse

Eirika A:spd+ B:drag back C: hone spd S:fortify res

Effie A:death blow B:Wary fighter C:threaten atk S:Def +1

Kagero A: B:desperation C: S:atk+1

 

[Rafiel's Aria]

3 minutes ago, Friendly_Ram said:

ninos A:fury B: desperation C: threaten res S:quickened pulse

Eirika A:spd+ B:drag back C: hone spd S:fortify res

Effie A:death blow B:Wary fighter C:threaten atk S:Def +1

Kagero A: B:desperation C: S:atk+1

 

From what you have here, your Kagero still doesn't have an A or a C skill. That would fix a lot of things. You might consider giving Eirika another B skill since Drag Back isn't worth a ton of SP compared to other skills. Other than that, make sure the runs you're doing are completely deathless. Losing characters means you get fewer points.

[Hawk King]

22 minutes ago, Friendly_Ram said:

4571 is my current max in tier 19.

Don't die.

Every unit death subtracts 70 from your score.

Also, try giving AoE specials to all of your units. That should boost the scores by an average of 4 per battle. Aether and Galeforce are the best for score but I'm gonna guess that you don't have any fodder for those.

[Ice Dragon]

Perfect score in Arena Assault on the second try this time around (first run got broken at the second round against Whistle's 740-point team). I really hate the oasis map with the fortifications all the way around the shore. Fucking armors don't walk off the fortifications once they get on.

I need to find more Hammers to put on my team. Both Faceless and 鏡mochi are running Gwendolyns, and it's kind of annoying.

 

Haven't done my regular arena run yet, but I've gotten 8 defense wins so far (not including the 2 from before I added a bonus unit). Currently running this team for defense:

+0 Elincia [+Atk, -Res] (Amiti, Ardent Sacrifice, Death Blow 3, Flier Formation 3)
+10 Minerva [+Spd, -Res] (Hauteclere, Reposition, Bonfire, Fury 3, Drag Back, Hone Fliers, Quickened Pulse)
+6 Spring Camilla [+Spd, -Res] (Gronnblade+, Reposition, Draconic Aura, Fury 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Hone Fliers)
+10 Brave Lyn [+Atk, -Def] (Mulagir, Reposition, Draconic Aura, Life and Death 3, Sacae's Blessing, Hone Cavalry, Attack +1)

I'll do my offense run once I finish deciding how to build Elincia, whenever that happens.

[Johann]

On 9/22/2017 at 5:09 PM, mampfoid said:

From what I understood: 1 merge equals 200 SP equals 10 BST. Therefore my method should suffice to compare my units, but not to calculate the exact score.

According to the Reddit post, the formula for calculating team score would look like this:

  Reveal hidden contents

(Score with bonus units) = 600 + (total BST, including stat seals, before merges)/10 + (total base SP cost of skills and weapons equipped)/200 + (total number of merges) + (number of fortify/spur seals)/2 - 6

The OP divides BST by 10 like you wrote, but adds a kind of base BST (150 per unit). I don't calculate the seals because they can be moved to the final team and wouldn't affect the direct comparison. 

Therefore the individual score would look like this:

150 + (BST/10) + (merge level) + (overall SP learned / 200)

In Hector's case: 150+(185/10) +0 +(1550/200) = 176,25

A team of four Hectors would score ~705 (plus whatever seals add), which seams accurate to me.  

Thanks again! 

I recall that there was testing showing that it only uses the SP of the 4 highest valued skills. This allows you to get away with using at least two skills of any SP value (like Drag Back or Quick Riposte 2). Seals also appear to offer no extra point value.

[Rezzy]

I'm at Rank 4958 in Arena Assault so it looks like I'll be dropping down below the 5K tier.  I should be safe for the 10K group, though.

For regular arena, I'm Rank 3812 with the cutoff to go into Tier 20 being 9656, so back to Tier 20 I go.  It would nice to stay in Tier 20 for a change, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

[ExKalibur]

Score of 4836 in AA is probably going to get kicked out of top 5k before the end of the season.  I added a few armours to my starting team and ran another deathless streak; achieving a score of 4858 (Rank ~3.4k).

Starting team:

• Roy +3 [+Spd / -HP] - (Binding Blade / Repos / Luna / TA3 / Vantage 3 / Hone Atk 3)
• Gwendolyn [+Spd / -HP] - (Slaying Lance+ / Pivot / Bonfire / Fury 3 / Lance Breaker 3 / Hone Armour / HP+3)
• Black Knight [Neutral] - (Base Kit + Swap + Hone Armour)
• Abel [+Atk / -HP] - (Brave Lance+ / Repos / Luna / DB3 / Drag Back / Spur Spd 3)

Score: 4858 ~ (Avg. 694. min: 690, max: 702)

As for regular arena, I'll continue my flop between 19 and 20.

[Ice Dragon]

Bleh, got impatient and just did my regular Arena run.

Tier 20

Score: 4,992 (1 death)
Rank: 1,093 (out of 13,808, 7.9%, 20→20)
Defense: 604 (×11)

Team was just vanilla Elincia and three dragons. Using Elincia to bait Lyn is pretty fun.

[mampfoid]

4 hours ago, Johann said:

I recall that there was testing showing that it only uses the SP of the 4 highest valued skills. This allows you to get away with using at least two skills of any SP value (like Drag Back or Quick Riposte 2). Seals also appear to offer no extra point value.

How do I calculate the score then? Do I have to use a kind of base for the dump skills? Are weapons handled like normal skills in this case?